- Thread starter Maggot
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Just got mine and got to use it this weekend. Impressive. Shot steel to 1980 hand held. Stabilized it on truck window and got better readings, but damn. This thing is fast and accurate. A few others got to use it too, they were equally impressed. We all got same readings on multiple targets out to 1080 without any support or tripod, just hand held. It is worth the $$.
Both. 1080 from main firing line, 1980 from our other firing line mapping out target placement.
I currently own two range finders: a Leica 2000B and a Sig 2000 that I bought when they were first released. My issue with them both is ranging steel at distances greater than 700 yards or so. I have no problems ranging a big ass water tower at 1830 yards, or a rock at 1100, or a house at 985, etc., but as soon as I shrink the target down to a 3/4 IPSC at 750 yards, or a 2.5 MOA target at 1080 yards, or a 10" gong at 925 yards, I can't seem to get a good, repeatable distance. Perhaps I am exceeding the capabilities of the devices, which is a possibility., but I haven't found a range finder that can reliably handle smaller semi-reflective targets, especially if that target has been shot up by the four or five squads ahead of you. What sized steel targets have you ranged with the Razor 4K and at what distances?
I sold my Sig Kilo 2k for same reasons you outlined. The steel I was ranging was 17" and we ranged it at 1080 by hand and 1980, but we had to stabilize in truck window to get consistent readings. Steel at all closer distances were no bigger than 14". The Vortex Razor HD 4k is a great range finder. I did not even have to use the ELR mode.
That's encouraging to hear, especially since I can pick up the 4K for not much more than I bought my Leica. Looks like my monthly talk with the wife about unexpected shooting expenses is going to happen a little earlier than normal
Just sell the other 2. lol
According to the specs on EuroOptics website the divergence is 2 mils wide X 0.1 mils tall.
This one definitely has my interest.
Plus it has a 1/4x20 tripod adapter so you don't have to buy a separate one. I am a fan of Leica products but the lack of a built in adapter is just ridiculous.
This one definitely has my interest.
Plus it has a 1/4x20 tripod adapter so you don't have to buy a separate one. I am a fan of Leica products but the lack of a built in adapter is just ridiculous.
The stated beam divergence is accurate, when I got mine I checked it out with a night vision scope. At first I thought that on paper a beam 2 MILS wide wouldn’t be all that great, but in actual use it hasn’t posed any problems. I think the .1 mil height makes up for it. You can pretty easily hit a target, then scan up over the top of it to verify you are really on the target.
The rest of my review is here...
The rest of my review is here...
Mine arrived yesterday evening. Initial impressions are positive, but limited to what I could see from my back deck, so hardly more than a perfunctory observation. Yes, it'll range my closest neighbor at 516 yards away (not much of a challenge for any LRF, I know). It picked up a sign at 630 something yards. The only cause for optimism was the consistent ranging of houses at 2200+ yards and what appears to be a fence or something in a nearby rancher's field at 1630, since none of my previous LRFs could. I'd get the occasional reading if whatever atmospherics aligned properly, like the Sun was perfectly at 12° above the horizon and Jupiter was in retrograde, but nothing that was consistent and repeatable, like I was getting yesterday with the 4K. So far, I'm encouraged, but the true test will come on Sunday, when I'll use it on much smaller steel targets out to almost 1100 yards.
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Time travel?! now you've peaked my interest!
I took the 4K to my local range this morning. I've shot countless matches there, so I know the ranges to the targets. Targets were a mix of 12"x24" coyotes, round gongs of differing sizes depending on the distances, and some IPSCs, though I don't know if they're 1/2, 3/4, etc. All of today's testing was done with the LRF mounted to my tripod for stability, since that would be exactly how I would use it in a match. I didn't use anything but the Normal Mode and the Scan feature because I wasn't going over 1200 yards, so ELR wasn't necessary, and I didn't have objects on top of each other, where the First or Last mode would shine.
The good: The most important thing for me, as I've said repeatedly, is ranging an object I intend to shoot. Yes, the 4K will range all those oversized or highly reflective targets that everyone uses to test their new LRF, but today I had no issues ranging an IPSC at 637, five coyotes from 392 to 648, and gongs from 623 to 1080. The best part was it ranged consistently! I would hit the target, aim away, and re-range about six or seven times per target just to test the repeatability and I was pleased to find all the ranges were consistent. All said and done, I wanna say I ranged about 20 different targets and some huge range fans. I had no problem getting repeatable results on anything.
The glass is surprisingly decent for a LRF. I had no problem finding my targets, even the ones that hadn't been painted in some time, so they were a mottled mix of old paint, grey steel, blackish bullet strikes, etc., that sometimes blend in with the terrain.
The Scan feature is always welcome. Sometimes you think you're on target, but you're going just over or under it. Hold the trigger down and sweep your target to see the range go from 711 to 552 back to 711.
Is that a threaded tripod socket?? Why, yes! Yes it is!! Something so simple to add, yet it often goes overlooked (I'm looking at you, Leica!!!!!!). My tripod has a RRS leveling base, so I just screwed on a dovetail plate that I have for my spotter and clamped it down! I could range targets when I was just holding the 4K, but I find my wobble zone was just a bit too much for accurate, repeatable results. As soon as I mounted it to the tripod, I was good to go!
The bad: This is more of a minor complaint, but I found my reticle didn't perfectly line up with the actual beam (in my experience, they rarely do). It's not something you'll notice when you first take it out of the box and range a house 1500 yards away or a street sign that's 600 yards away, but once you're trying to range a small target, you'll really notice it quickly! The reticle is a simple open center circle with "crosshair" extensions every 90º. I found my laser coincides with the upper half of my circle and a little left, like from 9 o’clock to 12 o’clock in my circle. There were times I had the target centered in the reticle, but I wasn't getting the ranges I knew I should have. When I brought the reticle down a bit, I was hitting consistently. It's not a huge issue for me because now that I know where my reticle and laser line up, I can aim consistently.
Lack of connectivity isn't a huge issue for me, but if you are one of those shooters who absolutely needs your LRF to talk to your Kestrel, your ballistic calculator, your phone, and whatever else, this isn't the LRF for you. It's perfectly viable as a standalone range finder, but you're going to have to take the extra time to input your ranges.
To sort of piggyback on the lack of connectivity, it offers no ballistic calculation. This isn't a rangefinder that you can add a single gun profile and see your drop and wind in the HUD. The 4K is purely a range finder, so don't expect to buy one and be able to get anything more than the distance to the target.
Overall, I'm happy with it! I bought mine for just over $400 and feel like I got my money’s worth . I had no problem ranging targets, no matter their size, from below 300 yards to almost 1100 yards. For all its positives, it does have a negative in its lack of connectivity, since a lot of people are wanting everything to communicate to other devices, but at its price point, I neither need, nor expect, communication with other devices. As a standalone LRF, it suits my needs just fine. If you need more, you should look elsewhere.
The good: The most important thing for me, as I've said repeatedly, is ranging an object I intend to shoot. Yes, the 4K will range all those oversized or highly reflective targets that everyone uses to test their new LRF, but today I had no issues ranging an IPSC at 637, five coyotes from 392 to 648, and gongs from 623 to 1080. The best part was it ranged consistently! I would hit the target, aim away, and re-range about six or seven times per target just to test the repeatability and I was pleased to find all the ranges were consistent. All said and done, I wanna say I ranged about 20 different targets and some huge range fans. I had no problem getting repeatable results on anything.
The glass is surprisingly decent for a LRF. I had no problem finding my targets, even the ones that hadn't been painted in some time, so they were a mottled mix of old paint, grey steel, blackish bullet strikes, etc., that sometimes blend in with the terrain.
The Scan feature is always welcome. Sometimes you think you're on target, but you're going just over or under it. Hold the trigger down and sweep your target to see the range go from 711 to 552 back to 711.
Is that a threaded tripod socket?? Why, yes! Yes it is!! Something so simple to add, yet it often goes overlooked (I'm looking at you, Leica!!!!!!). My tripod has a RRS leveling base, so I just screwed on a dovetail plate that I have for my spotter and clamped it down! I could range targets when I was just holding the 4K, but I find my wobble zone was just a bit too much for accurate, repeatable results. As soon as I mounted it to the tripod, I was good to go!
The bad: This is more of a minor complaint, but I found my reticle didn't perfectly line up with the actual beam (in my experience, they rarely do). It's not something you'll notice when you first take it out of the box and range a house 1500 yards away or a street sign that's 600 yards away, but once you're trying to range a small target, you'll really notice it quickly! The reticle is a simple open center circle with "crosshair" extensions every 90º. I found my laser coincides with the upper half of my circle and a little left, like from 9 o’clock to 12 o’clock in my circle. There were times I had the target centered in the reticle, but I wasn't getting the ranges I knew I should have. When I brought the reticle down a bit, I was hitting consistently. It's not a huge issue for me because now that I know where my reticle and laser line up, I can aim consistently.
Lack of connectivity isn't a huge issue for me, but if you are one of those shooters who absolutely needs your LRF to talk to your Kestrel, your ballistic calculator, your phone, and whatever else, this isn't the LRF for you. It's perfectly viable as a standalone range finder, but you're going to have to take the extra time to input your ranges.
To sort of piggyback on the lack of connectivity, it offers no ballistic calculation. This isn't a rangefinder that you can add a single gun profile and see your drop and wind in the HUD. The 4K is purely a range finder, so don't expect to buy one and be able to get anything more than the distance to the target.
Overall, I'm happy with it! I bought mine for just over $400 and feel like I got my money’s worth . I had no problem ranging targets, no matter their size, from below 300 yards to almost 1100 yards. For all its positives, it does have a negative in its lack of connectivity, since a lot of people are wanting everything to communicate to other devices, but at its price point, I neither need, nor expect, communication with other devices. As a standalone LRF, it suits my needs just fine. If you need more, you should look elsewhere.
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But it does offer a corrected distance feature for slope angle. It saves time by not having to enter slope angle, if that is an issue for some. Or you can run LOS and enter slope angle. I did some testing on telephone poles. I found the beam, on mine, lined up just above and right of cross hairs. Tested that on 17" plate at 1080, 1220 and 1980 all in normal scan mode, worked perfectly. Great review. Seems we are seeing very similar performance.
Ordered one today and should be here tomorrow. This thread helped me decide between the Vortex Razor HD 4000 and the Sig Kilo 2400 BDX
Ranged black/brown power line polls to signage in the area. High 85-90deg F with plenty of sun and mirage.
I started off ranging from the power line poles to the signage. Then hiked back and ranged from the signage to the power line poles.
I was able to get the same reading on multiple attempts. I’d let the unit turn off, come off the target, get back on the target, and re-range. Minimum was 5 range attempts.
My offset is at the 11 O’ clock position right inside the circle. Literally on the left hash of the vertical line and inside the circle.
Power line pole #45 to park sign 593yds
Park sign to power line pole #45 596yds
Power line pole #46 to park sign 724yds
Park sign to power line pole #46 726yda
*The difference in yardage is due to me standing a couple yards off of the power line pole and in the trail
There were some ranges I could not range back due to traffic and neighborhoods.
Power line pole #45 to traffic sign 650yds
Power line pole #46 to traffic sign 778yds
Power line pole #46 to furthest power line pole 1312yds
I started off ranging from the power line poles to the signage. Then hiked back and ranged from the signage to the power line poles.
I was able to get the same reading on multiple attempts. I’d let the unit turn off, come off the target, get back on the target, and re-range. Minimum was 5 range attempts.
My offset is at the 11 O’ clock position right inside the circle. Literally on the left hash of the vertical line and inside the circle.
Power line pole #45 to park sign 593yds
Park sign to power line pole #45 596yds
Power line pole #46 to park sign 724yds
Park sign to power line pole #46 726yda
*The difference in yardage is due to me standing a couple yards off of the power line pole and in the trail
There were some ranges I could not range back due to traffic and neighborhoods.
Power line pole #45 to traffic sign 650yds
Power line pole #46 to traffic sign 778yds
Power line pole #46 to furthest power line pole 1312yds
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I received mine a couple weeks ago. Very solid unit, glass is spectacular, very crisp and clear. I've only used it on normal mode so far but I've used the scan feature with the first and last target mode. I'm very impressed with it. I ranged it to 1,512 yards on steel and was able go get a Cold Bore first round hit with my Tikka 6.5 CM at 1,512 yards last weekend. I'd say it's pretty accurate. I will be testing it at 1 mile tomorrow. All in all I'm extremely happy with it and if you're looking to upgrade, get it, you will be very pleased.
Ranged steel targets (Full size, 66%, 12” plate, 6” plate from 200-1000 yards yesterday in 95deg F and sunny. Mirage was extremely bad. These were all known distances and they checked out.
I was able to get hits at 2100 and 2200 yards in ELR mode on brush. These were pretty inconsistent maybe 1/4-1/3 of the time. Furthest I was able to get repeatable hits was 2478 yards on a telephone pole. These distances were comparable to what the Terrapin X was getting.
For what my intended use will be for this rangefinder, checking steel targets from 200-1300 yards, I am extremely pleased with its performance thus far at the price point.
I was able to get hits at 2100 and 2200 yards in ELR mode on brush. These were pretty inconsistent maybe 1/4-1/3 of the time. Furthest I was able to get repeatable hits was 2478 yards on a telephone pole. These distances were comparable to what the Terrapin X was getting.
For what my intended use will be for this rangefinder, checking steel targets from 200-1300 yards, I am extremely pleased with its performance thus far at the price point.
Picked mine up yesterday. Good glass. Quick response time. Was able to take it to 1200yds on cattle. Was repeatable and impressed. Beam is off minimally to the right with crosshairs and only noticeable beyond 500yds. Used my original Terrapin to compare and quite pleased. Hope to get it past 2000 this week. Connectivity is a nonissue since we print range cards. Overall great unit with a fair price and a lifetime warranty.
I ended up getting the Leupold rx2800. Sportsman’s had it on sale and the sales rep let me take it and the vortex 4000 out back behind the store where there was an empty field with houses on the far side almost 2000 yards away.
The Leupold without even trying instantly returned results on a house at 1,936y every time. Also ranged smaller insignificant objects in between that distance. Unfortunately the vortex wouldn’t. I don’t know if it was the display model that was acting up. I know the battery indicator said it was full. The rep after trying 4 times got a read on the fourth attempt. Both lrf units Lenses were clean as well.
All attempts with the vortex were in elr mode. We also stabilized the vortex on the loading dock guard rail for each attempt. The RX2800 worked fine free hand. Kinda bummed the 4000 wasn’t working right because I had my mind made up on that model.
The Leupold without even trying instantly returned results on a house at 1,936y every time. Also ranged smaller insignificant objects in between that distance. Unfortunately the vortex wouldn’t. I don’t know if it was the display model that was acting up. I know the battery indicator said it was full. The rep after trying 4 times got a read on the fourth attempt. Both lrf units Lenses were clean as well.
All attempts with the vortex were in elr mode. We also stabilized the vortex on the loading dock guard rail for each attempt. The RX2800 worked fine free hand. Kinda bummed the 4000 wasn’t working right because I had my mind made up on that model.
The RX2800 does look really impressive in the video. I have had issues with the Vortex Razor HD 4000 in really sunny conditions. For me ELR mode seemed to fix this, but it still was running out of juice around 1500 or so yards off of brush in poor conditions. I never had any issues getting readings off reflective items out to ~2475 yards.
The Vortex does seem to do better off off of lighter color items. I had issues getting ranges from 2000-2200 yards on some dark brush. I was able to get ranges from about 2400-2500 yards off of a red dirt road and well kept field.
The Vortex does seem to do better off off of lighter color items. I had issues getting ranges from 2000-2200 yards on some dark brush. I was able to get ranges from about 2400-2500 yards off of a red dirt road and well kept field.
I replied to your PM as well, but for others who might be curious, yes, the Vortex is a better LRF than the Sig. I found the Sig could easily range those enormous things we all measure when we first get a new LRF, like houses, water towers, etc, but when you have small steel targets at 1000, vegetation at 1004, tall grass at 994, etc, it had a hard time (or maybe *I* just had a hard time) picking the target instead of the other "interference". I would get all three ranges pretty frequently. The Vortex seems to do a much better job cutting through the clutter and giving me accurate, repeatable ranges that I know are true.
I texted these to @wjm308 because he asked about the optical quality of the Vortex glass
Here is my front "yard"
And here are two pics through the Vortex 4000 using the same phone camera so you can gauge the quality for yourself
Here is my front "yard"
And here are two pics through the Vortex 4000 using the same phone camera so you can gauge the quality for yourself
Thanks Zach, that does help, here was a pic through my Sig Kilo showing the definite blue color cast
Here's my opinion, and it's worth what you paid for it:
Connectivity is really helpful IF you need to generate a range card in a timely manner. You get to stage two, and you have to engage eight UKD targets in the allotted time of, let's say, three minutes. Then, yes, it would be super helpful to have. You can range your targets, the LRF will send it to your Kestrel, which will calculate your firing solution, and hopefully you get the hits. The range card for your entire stage can be nade in under a minute.
With that said, I haven't gone to too many matches lately with an UKD stage. Most of the time, you'll know your range beforehand, which makes your LRF obsolete, unless you feel the need to verify. I went to the Raton match last last Sunday and I used my Vortex ONCE all day, and that was on the practice range. The actual yardage for each stage was available online. I don't need any of my gear to communicate. It takes me 30 seconds to manually input the ranges for the stage. Again, just my opinion, which you paid absolutely nothing for
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I do use my LRF quite a bit. I verify ranges pretty frequently at matches. I didn't want it to sound like there's no need to have a LRF, just that I'm not seeing a need for everything to communicate and integrate. Nice to have? Sure! But I wouldn't call it an absolute need just yet
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For those with the Vortex HD 4000, I’m too lazy to read through the manual, I do not like HCD mode because it can throw off wind values so I’m wondering if they have a mode that does LOS and also shows the angle value?
Yes.
I'm glad you asked because I think a lot of shooters don't realize this. In fact, I didn't realize it until Frank mentioned it in one of his podcasts and I had to rewind and listen again and then it dawned on me - "of course, the angle compensated value is going to be shorter than the flight path of the bullet". So if you use an angle compensated distance it will give you a reading that is different from LOS because it is compensating for the angle; however, that distance is different from what the actual distance is and when shooting long distance the wind has an effect on the bullet the entire path. Take the example that Vortex gives in their manual:
So if we use these values, go to your ballistics calculator and punch in a distance of 500 yards, then punch in a distance of 385 yards and put in a value of say 8mph wind, now look at the resulting wind values between both, you'll notice there is more holdover for wind on the 500 yard results vs. the 385 yards. So if you use the HCD (or whatever the mfr calls their angle compensation algorithm) and then you punch that into your ballistics, you will get the wrong wind hold value.
Edit: I decided to throw together this graphic as an example, it's going to be different for every condition and cartridge, but this serves as a baseline to explain why using angle compensated distances in your ballistics calculator can give you an incorrect wind hold value:
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I have found the unit works best in normal mode - scan and los. The ELR mode does funky shit to it. I prefer to enter LOS and angle data myself. I have used it to shoot distances out past a mile without issue in Normal scan mode.
Power line pole #45 to park sign 593yds
Park sign to power line pole #45 596yds
Power line pole #46 to park sign 724yds
Park sign to power line pole #46 726yda
BlBennett1288 - were you lazing the skylined parts of the poles, or the bottom parts with vegetation background?
Park sign to power line pole #45 596yds
Power line pole #46 to park sign 724yds
Park sign to power line pole #46 726yda
BlBennett1288 - were you lazing the skylined parts of the poles, or the bottom parts with vegetation background?
So I'm between the Vortex Razor HD 4000 ($500) and the Leupold RX2800 TBR ($420)... Thoughts?
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It works best in normal mode for me too. I've got readings right at 1100 on a cow, 1392 on steel plate, 1900+ on a dense grove of trees, and just over 2100 on a metal building.
