When I hear my kahles spin, my head goes to a scene where I'm unzipping a beautiful woman's long black designer dress. That's how they feel! Lol if their glass was better than soso and DOF/FOV were better they'd actually be worth their asking price!
- Thread starter jb1000br
- Start date
You can almost hear the difference between the Gen3 and Gen2 turrets with these pics
Mine got delivered today but I’m still at work unfortunately. And my Spuhr won’t be here until Thursday so I will be mounting it then and giving it a thorough testing.
So far I’m liking what I’ve been hearing so far especially since I chose this instead of waiting longer to save up for the ZCO.
So far I’m liking what I’ve been hearing so far especially since I chose this instead of waiting longer to save up for the ZCO.
Had mine out at woodys the other day too!Well finally got out today with the Gen III on the Vudoo and met up with my buddy Gary @DownhillFromHere at Woody's to compare the Gen III, Gen II and ZCO 5-27 side by side. Well also to shoot some rimfire to 540 yards also.
There were some broken orange clays out at the 540 yard line which worked out perfectly as a judge of clarity and sharpness. The Gen II worked as many have seen in seeing the broken clays but not sharply. The Gen III and ZCO side by side were tough to give a winner to. We had both on 27x. Gary thinks he would give a slight edge to ZCO and I was seeing almost the exact same clarity and sharpness of the broken clays. It was an overcast day with a hint of sun coming through so a good time to judge as it wasn't bright sunlight day. Both the ZCO and Gen III have great glass.
I also looked at reticle available at 27x also. With the ZCO there was about 7.2 mils to the bottom of the FOV at 27x. The Gen III was about 7.7. Not a big difference as both seem to be fine and give a good FOV.
We did a quick zero at the 50/100 range before going to the 100-540 yard range. Zeroing was nice and easy with the one screw set up. I like it. Went to the 100-540 yard range and put up a little three target swinger at 100 and they had steel at 200, 300, 400 and 540. Got on at 100 simple enough and then went to 200 and got the wind hold and hit and then 300 for same and then 400 with 21.5 mils dialed on and 2 mils of left wind and dropped three shots into about a 4-5" group and then went to 540 and shot the silhouette. 540 was a dial and hold as I dialed on the 26 mils I had in the scope and held another 6 mils over and 2.4 mils of left wind hold. Dropped three on there as well at about 5-6". Could see the impacts on the white steel very easily.
I kept track of parallax and at 50 it was on and at 100 it was on the 100 mark and same for 200 and then started being a little off but as all of us know those marks are just basic references anyways.
I also spun the dial watching for any issues with the knob locking up on me as some have mentioned and I didn't have a problem. I plan to wait until I shoot it in a match and see if there is a problem and if so then just do like some above have. I felt the knob lock and unlock on both the ZCO and the Gen III and the ZCO is a little stiffer in locking/unlocking.
The 7D reticle is nice with the .2 mil marks for hold overs/unders. It worked good for the holdovers I did when shooting 540 and also when I played around at 200-400. I kind of wish it was fully illuminated and not just the main crosshairs but again when I start shooting matches I will see if it matters or not.
All in all I am very happy with the Gen III. I have another on order and that will go on the centerfire when it comes in for those matches.
What grip is that?
Mkm vertical crossover
Best ar grip I’ve used. Thumbshelf, vertical, palmswell. It’s good
If someone is looking for the best scope in its class overall and wants to spend under $3k than the Razor Gen III is it! Thinking you're getting a ZCO or Tangent overall at a huge discount has left some disappointed that this was not the case for them , but we try to set realistic expectations ahead of time.
Scopes I am getting this year is a ZC420 M3X NLE for my NRL Hunter (ish) type do all setup, and a Razor Gen III 6-36 for a .22 build.
Unfortunately, when you work in a candy shop you can't have all the candy (Or I'd have multiple ZCO's)
Scopes I am getting this year is a ZC420 M3X NLE for my NRL Hunter (ish) type do all setup, and a Razor Gen III 6-36 for a .22 build.
Unfortunately, when you work in a candy shop you can't have all the candy (Or I'd have multiple ZCO's)
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I really like ZCO, don’t get me wrong but the ZP5 is considerably cheaper than it and competes with it handily. Truthfully they trade blows. The Minox just gets overlooked cause of the early QC issues and meh turrets most of which has been fixed to my understanding. This idea that similar performance can’t be had for less than 4000 is a little presumptuous IMO. I’m not saying the Gen III competes or not. I haven’t seen it yet. I have spent enough time behind a ZCO527 and my ZP5 and know that really outside of minor DOF, FOV, and hue they’re extremely similar, at least to these eyes. But yeah the Gen III isn't meant to replace $4000-5000 optics. It is however meant to compete with the tier 1 optics on the market. So while I don't expect it to best TT, ZCO, ZP5, S&B, I expect a competitive show.
JMO on the matter.
JMO on the matter.
When I say overall, I'm not just referring to just the performance of the scope but also QC, consistency, durability, reliability, manufacturer support and warranty!
Has anyone broken one of these with a spuhr or an arc mount yet?
I've seen a $5,000+ scope have problems with some out of spec mounts FWIW
Anything man made can have an issue, hell our customer with a new Porsche 911 GT3 RS had to reject the car at delivery for some serious QC issues...
That's a fair point. We don't really have numbers on durability of the Gen III being that it's new, so in regards to customers being disappointed by the scope when considering the Gen III thinking they're getting a ZCO what where did their disappointment lie? The turrets? or the glass? I'm genuinely curious no disrespect intended. The turrets I can certainly see right away, as I'm not fond of mine. The point of my comment was to just reiterate that ZCO while an absolutely fantastic optic is not necessarily untouchable, so in regards to expectations I'm expecting great things out of the Gen III. I certainly might be disappointed. I'm hoping to put it next to my ZP5 this weekend.
You guys should hit up liberty optics on the gen 3. Pretty sweet and a no brainer if your looking for a optic.
I will also add that I would NOT want to have an expensive optic that needs to be shipped overseas for repair, especially during the delays we see at customs.
I think these things are all perceived since we don't have the numbers from the manufacturer. But I get it, you need to sell ZCOs too. Lol.
I wasn't saying the Gen III was a ZCO but just getting a report on optics while using it at the range and from different eyes. I want to run them farther out and see how they do but having used a lot of optics over the years, including plenty of high end, I can see them holding their own. But also given the track record of the Gen IIs I don't see the Gen III being any less reliable, durable or consistent. It's a lot of scope for just under $3000 and a steal for the LE/Mil/FR pricing.
Could be lots of paychecks disappear.If someone is looking for the best scope in its class overall and wants to spend under $3k than the Razor Gen III is it! Thinking you're getting a ZCO or Tangent overall at a huge discount has left some disappointed that this was not the case for them , but we try to set realistic expectations ahead of time.
Scopes I am getting this year is a ZC420 M3X NLE for my NRL Hunter (ish) type do all setup, and a Razor Gen III 6-36 for a .22 build.
Unfortunately, when you work in a candy shop you can't have all the candy (Or I'd have multiple ZCO's)
For me, this is one of the biggest advantages for ZCO and other manufacturers who service the scopes right here in the USA. To be honest, if I competed, I would want that peace of mind knowing if something did happen I could get it addressed within a couple weeks. Of all the scopes I've had, I've only had 3 that had to go back for repair (Vortex, Schmidt and Burris) and each one of these took care of me very fast (under two weeks), there is something to be said about that. I know some of the ZCO's early on had some turret issues and every single report came back that ZCO fixed or replaced within a weeks time, for me that is part of what you are paying for - superb CS and quick turn around.
There is nothing wrong with purchasing a scope from a manufacturer that has to repair overseas, but like Richard mentioned it's not so much the manufacturer, it's the shipping issues, customs, and all that - just a pain to deal with. A couple years ago I decided to send my ZP5 back to Minox for a turret upgrade (this was not a repair) and it had to be sent back to Germany, given the fact it was right when COVID shut down the world and Minox had moved their equipment to new facilities I was surprised it did not take longer, but two months is a long time to wait and should be considered.
Good to know, I am sending you this backpack with pre-paid shipping back to meOh they have, but anything that fits in my backpack I never need to explain
So I received a PM II 5-25 from a fellow Hide'r and also just got the new 3-27x56 with DT II+ turrets and GR2ID reticle, I'm looking forward to seeing how the Gen III holds up.
Good to know, I am sending you this backpack with pre-paid shipping back to me
Now my wife would definitely be suspicious!!!
I have both of these scopes and figured I would share a few thoughts. I don't have the skills to do a full optical review like our resident experts so here are the thoughts from a member of the peanut gallery:
- The ZCO doesn't have the "getting darker" feeling when you go from low magnification to max magnification. The G3 does and it becomes perceptible from the middle of the magnification range on up.
- Eyebox on the ZCO at max magnification is more forgiving than the G3 when it's at max magnification.
- I have a beige water tank about 800 yards from my house. There are slight streaks in the paint. Both scopes can resolve the streaks at middle magnification but the streaks are really hard to see on the G3 at high magnification. You can see the streaks nearly as well at max magnification as you could see them on middle magnification on the ZCO.
- That same water tank has trees and bushes around it. The ZCO resolves the pattern/texture of the tree bark better at 27 than the G3 at 36. Color and the clarity of the outlines of the leaves and shadows goes to the ZCO as well.
- I can't see any CA on either but with the colors involved (browns and greens) I'm not sure there would be any except for the worst kinds of scopes
- I like the parallax and illumination on the ZCO better but it's not that the G3 is bad, it's just not quite as nice as the ZCO
- Turret "lock" and "unlock" on the ZCO is more defined and the clicks are more tactile and "clickier" than the G3. The G3 feels softer and less defined, like they take longer to happen.
- The G3 zero stop adjustment is superb. Beats the ZCO and I hope this kind of tool less adjustment becomes the norm.
if you’re comparing eye box and other magnification comparisons then the Gen3 needs to be set for 27x. Of course the eye box is going to be tighter at 36x when compared to 27x
IMO.
The Razor HD2 has the best audible and sharpest turrest i have ever used.
Old video, ZCO was not in the game at this time, yet.
The Razor HD2 has the best audible and sharpest turrest i have ever used.
Old video, ZCO was not in the game at this time, yet.
For what it’s worth, I bought a second Gen 3 last week and got it mounted up to zero tomorrow as well as zeroing a new NSX 8-32x56 on a new LRI 224 Valkyrie bolt gun build.
We’ve been having some warmer than normal weather here and it’s going to hold through Saturday. Snow Sunday.
I’m already set to RSO on Range 4 this Saturday at Quantico so I’ll be able to run one of my Gen 3s out to 1K and see how it does versus my new ATACR 35X at 1K
Stay tuned.
We’ve been having some warmer than normal weather here and it’s going to hold through Saturday. Snow Sunday.
I’m already set to RSO on Range 4 this Saturday at Quantico so I’ll be able to run one of my Gen 3s out to 1K and see how it does versus my new ATACR 35X at 1K
Stay tuned.
- $3,999.99 - Razor® HD Gen III 6-36x56 FFP EBR-7D MOA; and
- $3,999.99 - Razor® HD Gen III 6-36x56 FFP EBR-7D MRAD
See what separates this new riflescope from the Razor® HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 FFP and learn how to use the brand-new L-Tec+™ zero stop on the Vortex® YouTube Channel.
For a full list of specifications, frequently asked questions, high-resolution images and other helpful content, check out the Vortex® new product portal.
To see the full lineup of optics, optics accessories, and apparel, visit VortexOptics.com and be sure to follow Vortex Optics on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube,and Twitter.
About Vortex Optics: American owned, veteran-owned, Wisconsin-based Vortex Optics designs, engineers, produces, and distributes a complete line of premium sport optics, accessories, and apparel. Dedicated to providing unrivaled customer service and exceptional quality, Vortex® backs its products with the unconditional, transferrable, lifetime VIP Warranty. Built on over 30 years of experience in the optics industry, Vortex® has emerged as a leader in the optics market.
For probably the 100th time in this thread, IT IS NOT $4K. That is MSRP. Street price is $2999 and you can find it for less if you look around.
No one pays MSRP for Vortex. No one that is intelligent anyways
My (not so funny) joke was that NF is gonna raise prices $1.10 for ever $1.0 dollar vortex goes up at MSRP
Got my Gen 3 in today. Quick note I am not a glass tester or scope whore.
• Eye box is fantastic and a drastic improvement over my 5-25 ATACR with both on the same magnification. Feels much easier to get settled into the rifle and scope at higher magnifications.
• The glass clarity/resolution whatever you want to call it is another huge improvement over my ATACR. Again it’s a 5-25, I wish I had a 7-35 to compare.
• The turrets are definitely softer but I think they feel good. I’ll get used to them not worried about it.
• Noticeable weight difference over the 5-25 ATACR but its apples and oranges with the magnification and the gen 2 was husky too. Really not an issue for me but if you are into NRL and have some weight limit I suppose it could be something to account for.
• The reticle is nice and feels very similar to my Mil-C but has the Christmas tree. I’ll get used to that.
• The zeroing was excellent, I bore sighted quicker than ever. Coming from an ATACR it was a major improvement in ease of use. This feature is pretty heavy in my rubric having a switch barrel gun and being able to streamline that process is nice in my eyes.
Preliminary verdict is for what I paid I’d buy this every time. Hopefully Friday I can get a zero go out to 1k and come back to zero. If its repeatable and tracks back to zero for me I will be very happy with this optic.
• Eye box is fantastic and a drastic improvement over my 5-25 ATACR with both on the same magnification. Feels much easier to get settled into the rifle and scope at higher magnifications.
• The glass clarity/resolution whatever you want to call it is another huge improvement over my ATACR. Again it’s a 5-25, I wish I had a 7-35 to compare.
• The turrets are definitely softer but I think they feel good. I’ll get used to them not worried about it.
• Noticeable weight difference over the 5-25 ATACR but its apples and oranges with the magnification and the gen 2 was husky too. Really not an issue for me but if you are into NRL and have some weight limit I suppose it could be something to account for.
• The reticle is nice and feels very similar to my Mil-C but has the Christmas tree. I’ll get used to that.
• The zeroing was excellent, I bore sighted quicker than ever. Coming from an ATACR it was a major improvement in ease of use. This feature is pretty heavy in my rubric having a switch barrel gun and being able to streamline that process is nice in my eyes.
Preliminary verdict is for what I paid I’d buy this every time. Hopefully Friday I can get a zero go out to 1k and come back to zero. If its repeatable and tracks back to zero for me I will be very happy with this optic.
I have had my gen3 mounted in an ARC M-brace torqued to arc specs, 55"/# no issues. I have m10 rings on about everything minus lightweight hunting rigs. Never had an issue, kahles, zco, or NF
Ok just got in, initial impressions:
-Like the color, like the weight.
-Looks and feels of good quality
-Can’t talk about “glass clarity” until I take it out to the range.
-Mag ring super smooth, parallax ring super stiff
-there’s a noticeable “click” when I unlock both turrets. Turrets are pretty stiff
-turret clicks, there isn’t any.
Can’t wait to get it mounted and zeroed.
-Like the color, like the weight.
-Looks and feels of good quality
-Can’t talk about “glass clarity” until I take it out to the range.
-Mag ring super smooth, parallax ring super stiff
-there’s a noticeable “click” when I unlock both turrets. Turrets are pretty stiff
-turret clicks, there isn’t any.
Can’t wait to get it mounted and zeroed.
Attachments
It is nice to see so many of these getting into shooters hands, I recall the Gen II was on back order for over a year. Same with the AMG, vortex said they were going to improve supply after release and seems like they are fulfilling which is encouraging.
Liberty Optics has another shipment in route. Ive got my name on another one to put on my 6gt. Seeing 22 cal bullet holes in paper at 500y. A lot of bang for the buck considering these are near half the price of ZCO when you buy thro Scott.
Zeroed the second of my two Gen 3 this morning. It was actually above 45F.
One gripe: my super cool Vortex Allen wrench/inner turret turner thingy was the wrong size Allen wrench.
I got two with each scope, maybe they’re different sizes? Didn’t have this problem with the other Gen 3…….
Edited to add:
Yes, there were two different sizes included. Didn’t notice before.
1K Range 4 Quantico Saturday….
One gripe: my super cool Vortex Allen wrench/inner turret turner thingy was the wrong size Allen wrench.
I got two with each scope, maybe they’re different sizes? Didn’t have this problem with the other Gen 3…….
Edited to add:
Yes, there were two different sizes included. Didn’t notice before.
1K Range 4 Quantico Saturday….
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They are different sizes, one is a 2 mm for the throw lever while the other is a 2.5 mm for the turrets. They are labeled at the base of the teardrop so you can reference that if you need to know which one you have.
Never noticed until this morning. Fortunately I had a folding hex key set ….
Very nice triage work on your ZCO
I just realized the pic is of the rifle and scope on your bed, I thought I was the only one who slept with my rifles next to me, glad to know I'm not alone
(sorry, couldn't resist) One on each side bruh…I just realized the pic is of the rifle and scope on your bed, I thought I was the only one who slept with my rifles next to me, glad to know I'm not alone
Saw in another post the Gen III is purple so I made this little visual aid to help out.
Imo people repeatedly posting about dealers selling under map is the best way to ruin a good thing.
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