Vortex = Velocity??

[jakhamr81]

I found this interesting and thought I would share it with everyone. I chroned my Noveske 12.5 GPR with a KX3 flash suppressor when I first got it. I later changed out the KX3 with a Smith Vortex and chroned it again. Now the tests were by no means scientific and their could have been other environmental conditions that factored into the results. I did the two tests about a month and a half apart.

Here's what I found:
With the KX3:
XM193- 2746 fps
M855- 2678 fps

With the Vortex:
XM193-2830 fps
M855- 2707 fps

That was an increase of 84 fps for the XM193 and 29 fps for the M855. Could the Smith Vortex somehow increase the velocity, or the KX3 decrease the velocity? Anyone else have similar data? Again it was the same barrel, two different flash suppressors at different times. I cannot try to reproduce the results because I sold the KX3, so I'm hoping someone else can try the same test.

 

[pawprint]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

This is interesting to say the least. I'm not knocking your post or your info in any way, but for the tests to be "meaningful" I'd like to see them shot on the same day-same way, same lot of ammo etc. I have little doubt that there would be some variation, how much is the question. Interesting to say the least!

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

I agree, and wish I still had the KX3. When I did the testing it was more of an after thought, and never expected different data. I have no doubt that my data may have some flaws in it especially being over a month apart. I would like to see if someone out there has a KX3 and a Smith that they could compare to a few different hiders on the same barrel.

I may also try pulling my hider off and shooting with no hider to at least have a control.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

if its a 556 Ill send you a milspec bird cage to compare. If you can look up the temperatures for the dates you shot it may rule out or point to one variable.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

I see its a 556. If you want pm me your address and ill send it out with a crush washer. My 308 bolt gun with the Vortex is faster than my FN with a target crown. same load and barrel length but I dont see how the Vortex would speed it up.

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

It will likely have a tiny effect increasing velocity.
If you're comparing two different barrels then the data is worthless unless you shoot with, and without the vortex, on the same day.

Because both loads you shot contained a double base "ball" powder, temperature difference was probably the culprit.

 

[Saito]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

I've got both a KX-3 and a Vortex, as well as a couple .223 cans so maybe I'll have to compare all of them against one another velocity wise?

 

[bricktop]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

One other thing is that the varying muzzle blasts could be affecting the velocity measurements. They probably divert air/burnt powder differently, so it might be good to put the chrony farther away to rule that out for side-by-side comparisons.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

You need better data. You NEED to have ENV conditions equal as well as ammo temp. Along with that the further out you have your chrono the less effect it will have on sensitivities. I know when I shoot the .50 I have my chrono at least 20 feet downrange to eliminate some of the blast effect. Obviously the .556 is not the .50 but you get my drift.

 

[mattsnuked]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

How exactly are you thinking a flash hider increases/decreases your ammo velocity?? I’m curious to hear your reasoning?

What type of chrono do you have? And please don't say a chrony brand

 

[Drifter™]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

In addition to temperature effect, lighting on the chrono can also have any influence, as I doubt the muzzle device is a significant factor regarding velocity.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

That's all I'm asking here. I am using a pro chrono. I don't have any theories other than what I discovered by chance, and that was just enough for me to wonder if it's possible and if not then what caused the variation? Is it far fetched to think that you may get a variation in MV between two completely different muzzle device designs? Next time I go to the range I will pop off my Vortex and chrono with and without it; Maybe their is someone out there that could do the same with a KX3.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattsnuked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How exactly are you thinking a flash hider increases/decreases your ammo velocity?? I’m curious to hear your reasoning?

What type of chrono do you have? And please don't say a chrony brand

</div></div>

A guy downrange with a mitt....

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

OK, I'm going go out on a limb to present a stretch of a theory. In the attached video one of the shots from a pistol the gasses envelope the bullet and pass the bullet at a higher speed making the bullet pass though hot dense gas compared to the ambient air. High Speed Video

Here are my two theories. The first one is that the Vortex could strip the gasses which it does an excellent job at for controlling flash and not allow the dense hot gas to affect the bullet.

The other is that the KX3 could amplify the push of gas in front of the bullet as it leaves the barrel causing it to pass through dense hot gas and possibly slowing the bullet.

It may be possible to see the accumulative difference between the two, although that is a big difference in his chrono speeds.

OK, push me off the limb.

 

[SSSamurai]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The other is that the KX3 could amplify the push of gas in front of the bullet as it leaves the barrel causing it to pass through dense hot gas and possibly slowing the bullet.
</div></div>
The KX3 actually has a chamber that traps gases exiting the barrel, like the first chamber of a suppressor. That would create the opposite of the conditions you are describing. I suspect it's environmental conditions behind these velocity differences, but I'd like to see it tested.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

Good point, never spent any time with the KX3. Most likely its the environmental.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

I think I'm in agreement that it was most likely external factors that gave me different velocities.

 

[pawprint]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

When a bullet leaves the bore, the resistance from the barrel is gone, air resistance is present, but much less, the bullet still has high pressure/high speed gas behind it, thus it speeds up outside the barrel, for a very short distance, fractions of an inch or so. The distance would of course be based on powder, bullet, etc. A given flashhider "could" concentrate those gases to some extent-like a nozzel, and cause the increase to be slightly higher. My thought is, it would still be very small, needing equipment far better than the standard crony to measure, that is why I believe you'd need to test same day, same gun, same ammo, same barrel etc. Nonetheless, it is very interesting, and I'd love to hear the results, real results are all the best kind.

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

It's very common to see velocity increases with a can on.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it have a tiny effect with a lesser muzzle device.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Vortex = Velocity??

It will be a little while before I get back to the ramge as I just got pretty busy at work. I hope no one is holding their breath on this one. I would encourage anyone else who maybe currious to try to reproduce these results.