Vudoo, CZ, Bergara, and Kidd go head to head

nakoa01

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So every week I see a post is the Vudoo worth it. Or CZ, Tikka, or Bergara. So at this point I have spent thousands in testing. In the last 2 years I have owned about 30 cz 457s some with Bartleins. 3 Bergaras. 2 being carbon fiber and 1 steel. 4 vudoos. One 22in in a mdt chassis, one ridgeback with a 16in barrel, one proof 18in in a bravo, and one stock Raven. 3 kidds one Ultralight super grade with also a 18in heavy barrel, 2 stage at 8/8, titan stock. Another supergrade 20in fluted, comp, at 1 stock, and single stage trigger. Another kidd classic lightweight barrel, volquartsen reciever, kidd internals and 2 stage set st 8/8 in a bell and carlson Anschutz thumbhole.

All of my shooting had been done at 50yds off bags and largely at night to avoid thermals, mirage, and most of all wind. Here in KY at night most of the time or wind calms way down. When I shoot its 7mph or less.

First off the Kidds. Everyone of the kidds groups looks the same. Little round holes. However every one of them have been SUPER AMMO PICKY. Varying even with center x from lot number to lot number. SK is my fav ammo but one minute the kidd likes the lot number the next nope. I finally stumbled onto something they like. But typically its center x accross thr board for a safe bet on all guns. My kidd ultralight is crazy accurste with the right center x but it take all my concentration to make it stack in there. I have to break cheek weld and resettle or it wont happen. Don't ask me why just the way it is. The victor titan really helps. It out shoots my lightweight which is about the same weight but the victor is heavier. The heavy gun in the at 1 has been a shooter since first mag. Crazy accurate. And the comp really helps. The gun just doesn't move. Making follow up shots easy. And it does not take near the concentration of the ultralight. The lightweight I sold. It was just too hard to get it to stack like I wanted it too. And it was even more ammo picky than the others.

The Vudoos. What can I say. Every one of them every freaking time. The have reinvented the wheel here. It is effortless to shoot bullet holes. My timing from ahot to shot can be off. I can stay in the gun too long etc. They are just the definition of perfection. They are not ammo picky. If I want to shoot in the low .3s I use sk standard plus. If I want .2s and .1s its center x. They are truly worth their every penny.

CZs. So I have had every make and model of the 457 except the funky gray one. Not a fan. The 20in mtr barrels I have had no luck with. The 16in varmint barrels....I have had 4 and all shoot extremely well. Like probably a solid 3/8 gun at 50 with center x. The bartleins I have owned have allowed me to shoot sk and stay around the 3/8 mark. I did try a lothar walther and wasnt happy. Super consistent, but 2 in one whole other three a little ways off in another. Most groups could be covered with a dime still.

Bergaras. Okay so this one to me is a poor man's Vudoo. At least at 50yds. Both of my carbon fibers would punch .1s and. 2s avg under .3/8 but they had to have an area 419 hell fire muzzle break to do it with. Without that comp there was enough movement to effect groups. With that comp very nice. My steel version is my bell of the ball and the one gun I have shot more than the others combined. Probably 3000 rounds I would say. Automatic and getting better. I run trigger tech specials turned all the way down and in that paticular gun i am under 1lb. Never and issue. The bolt I can work it like a worn out hooker or slow and steady. Never a malfunction in my bergaras nor my cz nor my vudoo. I live bergara mag, easier to load for me than the Vudoo. And I can run the bolt much faster bc it's not made to as tight of a tolerance. I very much like the factory stocks too. The gun is very well finished, thought out, and designed. Smoking deal for what they go for I think.

Vudoo takes the cake. It's a custom rifle designed for those who want the best. I simply couldnt be happier. Customer service and folks there are TOP NOTCH. Kidd is a vudoo for the semi auto. But a cz and bergara will be more consistent and easier to shoot in my opinion. Nature of the beast. For a cheaper 700 foot print practice tool short of Vudoo Bergara. But accuracy wise they all shoot about the same minus the Vudoo. I do find the bergara to be easy to shoot well followed my cz or tikka and then the kidd.

Feel free to ask questions for those looking to buy a new rifle.
 

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nakoa01

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More groups
 

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nakoa01

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These appear blurry. Clock in then and they should become clearer. At least on my phone they are.
 

AZ Dan

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This just confirms what I have found by analyzing my rifle vs friends...My Bergara is just a poor man's Vudoo. Personally, I don't think the extra cost is justified by the results, Bergara Vs Vudoo. If I had the extra money to spend, I'd have bought the Vudoo, but I am very happy with my B14R.
 
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Mr. Wolf

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Nice write up.
Your observations on the Cz and Kidd are very similar to mine. Cz is easier to stay in the gun, functions flawlessly and is about a 3/8” at 50 yard gun. The Kidd barreled 10/22 can be very precise,
but it demands every bit of your concentration.
going from the Cz to a 10/22 felt similar to making the centerfire to rimfire precision shooting transition. Humbling to say the least.

thank you, happy shooting
 
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nakoa01

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Nice write up.
Your observations on the Cz and Kidd are very similar to mine. Cz is easier to stay in the gun, functions flawlessly and is about a 3/8” at 50 yard gun. The Kidd barreled 10/22 can be very precise,
but it demands every bit of your concentration.
going from the Cz to a 10/22 felt similar to making the centerfire to rimfire precision shooting transition. Humbling to say the least.

thank you, happy shooting
Exactly. I move the kidd to shoot a semi auto that well is amazing but the trigger timing, hand, cheek, and shoulder have to be perfect. Like shooting a sporter vs bench gun.
 

nakoa01

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Very nice write-up. Have you messed with a volquartsen summit?
Its on the list. I would very much like to. I think it will be as accurate as the cz. My fx has me liking the toggle action and I love the carbin fiber barrels in both looks and performance on the volquartsen.
 

nakoa01

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Love the FX Crown groups in the middle of the bunch :)
Yes my fx crown hangs right with all of them in no wind. Typically what I ahoot is 3 to 5 some times less. It's crazy what you can do. I have settings for JSBs which are the most accurate, setting for fx heavies, and setting for Nelson slugs. But it was designed to shoot the jsb 25grners. And it shows a strong preference for that. Crazier is that at 65, 75, and 85 in 2mph wind was able to edge out the cz 457 and kidd. At least on that day and in these hands.
 
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Frankr

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Where’s the groups from your cheap AR upper with the Beyer barrel in it?
For the price, that one shoots :)
 

nakoa01

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Yep shot it again today. Best shooting one of my ARs
 

Boltyboi

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I have a t1x and a t3x. If I'm being honest I will build a vuddo before I build a custom centerfire. I dont know why, but from what I have seen online you can build up a good production centerfire anywhere you want to go, but if you want no holds barred in a .22, vuddu is the name of the game
 
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Deej

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Very good right up and about what I’ve found also. So I got an anschutz and then 3 more. Got to love the the addiction
 
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nakoa01

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Maybe I missed it, but it looks like you rank it
Vudoo then Begara then CZ
where did Tikka come in?
I am going to put the cz and tikka next to oen another. I had 2 of them. The triggers even with a spring swap suck. At least to me they do. Both of what I had functioned fine, I love their mag. Bolt is crazy short in the throw. And to my biggest surprise the stock fot me and tracked crazy well in the bags. I thought it being that narrow and light and plastic it would be all over the place. It wasn't at all. It wedged very nicely in the bags. Was very impressed. Worh a timney it might be right there with the bergara ans edge out the cz. But many have reported having to tinker with ejection, magazine not feeding quite right etc. A cz is plug and play. Since the 452 i have had nearly 80 CZs, no I am not kidding, and never a malfunction. But the tikka putnof the box accuracy was very surprising. It shot extremely well. Next non vudoo I get might be one and add a timney. But I am not going through the nightmare of pulling the barrel. I would trade it, buy another cz in 16in and not have to worry about it. IF I wanted to have multiple barrels on a rimfire platform CZ all thr way. Crazy easy to swap.
 

nakoa01

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Nice write up @nakoa01. I’ve told you before....you can get help for your rimfire addiction. 🤣🤣

Seriously....damn good review of some of the top rimfires in today market.
To say you have an addiction is to admit you have a problem. And there is no problem here. I just need more money. Ha ha ha

Love this shit. I have infected you and a few others. Ha ha ha
 
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Mr. Wolf

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To say you have an addiction is to admit you have a problem. And there is no problem here. I just need more money. Ha ha ha

Love this shit. I have infected you and a few others. Ha ha ha
Nakoa-
In your experience, why is it harder to shoot groups in an ultralight weight barrel compared to a full bull barrel? Do the back end move more with a lighter barrel? Is there more inherent accuracy out of a bull barrel? Something else? TIA.

I am certain I can get better groups if I use a Leadsled or a Ransom rest but that’s not practical for how/what I like to shoot.

Cheers, happy shooting
 

nakoa01

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Ita all about the weight and distribution of it. For example the bergaras. The lighter that front end is the hard it is for me to shoot tight groups. My steel bergara is like a led sled. Just kinda sits there bc all the weight is forward on the barrel. I think it allows me to make more mistakes and is more forgiving. A 22lr has recoil. And controlling and minimizing that recoil is about weight and follow through. Follow through is paramount on a rimfire bc thr bullet time in the barrel. You can make a mistake and it shows up bc of the time the bullet is still in the barrel vs a centerfire. A centerfire the bullet is in there for a millisecond compared to a rimfire. The carbon fiber bergara sheds a 1lb over the heavy barrel. And it's all in battle weight. To me that causes more muzzle flip and front end vibration. Here is where Jfarmshooter introduced me to the hellfire muzzle break. That is a game changer. It sends the gasses out minimizing muze flip and movement. And makes it easier for follow through. For me when I have had trouble getting a gun to behave I try the muzzle break and adding weight, like a bipod to the front end.

Cz 457 precision chassis 16in barrel did not need assistance in this case. The short barrel has less dwell time and is stiffer. The weight after adding a scope makes it a well balanced rifle. Flip side my 18in area 419 bartlein manners combo was daylight and dark difference. It needed the comp. Then it shot very very well. So the comp or a suppressor is added to all my rifles to test to see if they want tamed or shoot as is. Most of the time when recoil and muzzle flip is reduced it tracks better. And that consistent tracking is one of the top keys in shooting groups. You can have a one holer but if it doesn't track consistently you won't have tiny groups. That's a fact.
 
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JG26_Irish

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nakoa01 - You are my hero. I am impressed with your rimfire collection. What part of KY are you in? I am in the Eastern end.

I thought I had a rimfire addiction. Now I can just point to you and call it normal. Nice write-up too. My rimfire allure began about 8yr ago when I bought an old beat up Win 52 Pre-A. Now I have three Win 52's, an Annie super match 54, a Vostock CM2, Ishmash Biathlon Basic, Annie 1451, two Rem 540XR's, a Win 75 and 69A and 67. Also a Rem 514 and 41 along with a CZ452 Am and a CZ457 VPT and a SakoQuad Lilja. Savage MkII in 22lr and another in 17M2 as well as a 93R in 17hmr and a Bmag in 17wsm. Also a Stevens 416 X-bbl that has promise for an 80yr old rifle. I probably left out a few. I like them all for different reasons and certainly some shoot better than others. I love the old elite rifles like the Annie spr match and the old Win 52's. They are the gold std against which I measure all the others. One 52B topped with a 20x Unertl vintage scope out shoots them all most of the time.

I don't own a VuDoo but shoot against them often. beat them sometimes and lose to them sometimes. Lord willing, I will own one before too long. Lately the two that have my attention are the Sako Quad. and the CZ457 varmint precision trainer in the Manners stock. Both are great shooters with CenterX or the right lot of Midas. They are both fairly non-ammo picky and shoot many ammo types well. But the difference between a good lot and a great lot is still stunning. Mostly I find myself shooting Lapua/SK products in various flavors. I just got some of that "Bi-Polar" ammo. I was told it shoots high somethings and low sometimes and then other times it just goes flippin crazy, lol. I have not got up the nerve to shoot it yet.

The Sako is a special rifle that was one of a limited series built by Jared Joplin of American Precision Arms fitted into a McMillan A5 stock with some nice refinements. The CZ is bone stock out of the box. I am still breaking it in but it has already recorded four ARA factory cards of 2450, 2500, 2450 and 2500 and two IBS50 cards of 248/10x and 248/11x. Those are about all I have shot with it in competition but these were unsanctioned local BR matches. I am still working on dialing the trigger to a spot I am happy with and finding that best lot for it. I would place them both at about the same level of accuracy potential but the Sako is a little easier to shoot well. I think the stock fits me better and the bolt is a bity smoother. The CZ gets better every time I shoot it. I am looking forward to some real matches with it in the spring if not sooner.

Pics - The Green USBR tgt is the CZ with three different lots of Midas+ at 50y. The two on the upper left were the best. The Blue tgt was lot testing with the Sako using different lots of CX ammo. The Sako is more consistent but not by much. They were both using the same scope at the time.
 

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nakoa01

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I love the varmint precision. And that sako looks really good.

Glad I could be of assistance on the diesease. Lmao
 

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Love the look of your quad I’ve got one bone stock but still shoots really good loves center x
 
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Defender32

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    Great reading and info. I own the Steel Barrel Bergara and just ordered a Vudoo Ravage in Ridgeback stock with 20" Ace Kui barrel. 16 weeks can't get here fast enough. I should be able to shoot the 21/22 NRL22 season with it and keep or flip the B14r.
     
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    LuvDog

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    I am going to put the cz and tikka next to oen another. I had 2 of them. The triggers even with a spring swap suck. At least to me they do. Both of what I had functioned fine, I love their mag. Bolt is crazy short in the throw. And to my biggest surprise the stock fot me and tracked crazy well in the bags. I thought it being that narrow and light and plastic it would be all over the place. It wasn't at all. It wedged very nicely in the bags. Was very impressed. Worh a timney it might be right there with the bergara ans edge out the cz. But many have reported having to tinker with ejection, magazine not feeding quite right etc. A cz is plug and play. Since the 452 i have had nearly 80 CZs, no I am not kidding, and never a malfunction. But the tikka putnof the box accuracy was very surprising. It shot extremely well. Next non vudoo I get might be one and add a timney. But I am not going through the nightmare of pulling the barrel. I would trade it, buy another cz in 16in and not have to worry about it. IF I wanted to have multiple barrels on a rimfire platform CZ all thr way. Crazy easy to swap.

    Thanks. When I was looking for a good budget rifle all the reviews kept saying the Tikka and CZ were almost identical.

    Most people gave the nod to Tikka and said it was smoother.
    One or two would say the CZ was slightly more accurate at 100yds, but just barely.

    So, I bought both. I'd have to say that accuracy, they are pretty close.

    I do like the overall fit, finish, and accuracy of the CZ over the Tikka.
     
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    Frankr

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    Thanks. When I was looking for a good budget rifle all the reviews kept saying the Tikka and CZ were almost identical.

    Most people gave the nod to Tikka and said it was smoother.
    One or two would say the CZ was slightly more accurate at 100yds, but just barely.

    So, I bought both. I'd have to say that accuracy, they are pretty close.

    I do like the overall fit, finish, and accuracy of the CZ over the Tikka.
    Well I own both a CZ and tikka from Nakoa1 lol.
    The tikka is a more consistent shooter and less ammo picky but the Cz can shoot with the tikka.
    Action wise I think it’s a toss up. I run the Cz just as fast as the tikka. The Cz seems to have a lighter bolt lift and closing even though the cycling seems to be longer.
    If Cz wouldn’t have engraved the serial number on the bottom of the bolt, I bet it would be as smooth as the Cz.
    The trigger on the Cz out of the box has been amazing. The tikka trigger sucks on the one I have and needs a timney
     

    Tomiboy

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    Great post! I had an FX Crown in 30 cal....very accurate and hard hitting!
     
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    Bill923

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    Who was the barrel maker on the 22" Vudoo,
    And does the 22" seem to be a little more stable than the shorter barreled one?
    Thanks
     

    nakoa01

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    Who was the barrel maker on the 22" Vudoo,
    And does the 22" seem to be a little more stable than the shorter barreled one?
    Thanks
    22in vudoo was an ace barrel. Vudoos in house barrel. And they are fantastic. As for stable, between the two no. I notice no difference between the two. Oddly enough the chassis 22in vudoo moves the same amount as the ridgeback 16in. I think a stock absorbs recoil better than a chassis.
     
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    carbonbased

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    Thanks for the report! Having trouble imagining your gun storage, lol.

    If you want the best two-stage trigger in your CZ, try Bill Scaramuzzo’s trigger at https://triggersbyscar.com/. I have a Kidd supergrade with their two-stage and two-stage Bix n’ Andy tacsport pros in my rem700s and by god, Bill’s trigger is better than the Kidd and possibly better than the BnA. At least the BnA equal, but I don’t daydream about the BnA, haha.

    I have his CZ 455 model, so I can’t speak to his 457 version. That trigger transformed my CZ 455 Ultra Lux. I had him set it at 6oz/6oz.

    He just had shoulder surgery this month, so I don’t think you’ll be getting a trigger from him for months, but FYI. He’s a retired machinist and I believe he sets up the triggers as they are ordered vs having a bin of them ready to go.
     
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    jps2486

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    Ok, I'll stick my 2 cents in. I have a CZ452 Varmint which shoots pretty well. I wanted more, so I got an Anschutz 1411, then and Anschutz 1416, then an Anschutz 64 BR, then an Anshcutz 1710 GRS. No better, so thankfully the Annies are gone. Still have the CZ, but my Vudoo Apparition with the KRG stock is two weeks away. I tingle with anticipation.
     

    nakoa01

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    Ok, I'll stick my 2 cents in. I have a CZ452 Varmint which shoots pretty well. I wanted more, so I got an Anschutz 1411, then and Anschutz 1416, then an Anschutz 64 BR, then an Anshcutz 1710 GRS. No better, so thankfully the Annies are gone. Still have the CZ, but my Vudoo Apparition with the KRG stock is two weeks away. I tingle with anticipation.
    1712 should have shot better with lapua ammo. Put center x in the vudoo and be ready for one holers.
     

    AZ Dan

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    I love my Bergara B14R.

    I'm curios to see how the new BMR model shoots...just looks like a lighter weight version of the B14R.
     

    Aussiedan

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    This is my b14r, waiting on a scope base and rings before I can get it to the range.

    Really enjoy seeing what others are doing with them 👌

    received_318514726237443.jpegUSER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_MSGR_PHOTO_FOR_UPLOAD_1611795723597_6760361250667050140.jpeg
     
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