Looking for build spec's for a Winchester pre 64 mod 70 USMC SNIPER. I have a few pre 64 mod 70's, so why not build one.
- Thread starter mike harper
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Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
Not sure there is an easy way - unless you can find the original USMC specs / documents printed anywhere?
If not you just need to be prepared to read a lot of junk, cross-reference as much as possible to work out what you can definitley confirm and what is myth.
Would recommend Senich's "The One Round War" as a good place to start....
...and a lot of time on the keyboard hunting down any info you can find
A quick search on USMC M70 Sniper Rifle threw up these:
http://www.nramuseum.com/the-museum/the-...iper-rifle.aspx
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Winchester_Model_70
Maybe also drop Mike Lau at TBA a line....he does a great repro from what I've seen - maybe he has some info on the original specs he could share?? He used to advertise that he'd do a build on a donor rifle.....
Not sure there is an easy way - unless you can find the original USMC specs / documents printed anywhere?
If not you just need to be prepared to read a lot of junk, cross-reference as much as possible to work out what you can definitley confirm and what is myth.
Would recommend Senich's "The One Round War" as a good place to start....
...and a lot of time on the keyboard hunting down any info you can find
A quick search on USMC M70 Sniper Rifle threw up these:
http://www.nramuseum.com/the-museum/the-...iper-rifle.aspx
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Winchester_Model_70
Maybe also drop Mike Lau at TBA a line....he does a great repro from what I've seen - maybe he has some info on the original specs he could share?? He used to advertise that he'd do a build on a donor rifle.....
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking for build spec's for a Winchester pre 64 mod 70 USMC SNIPER. I have a few pre 64 mod 70's, so why not build one. </div></div>
You do know you will kill the value of a pre-64 Winchester. These are highly collectaple as is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking for build spec's for a Winchester pre 64 mod 70 USMC SNIPER. I have a few pre 64 mod 70's, so why not build one. </div></div>
You do know you will kill the value of a pre-64 Winchester. These are highly collectaple as is.
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: n64atlas</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking for build spec's for a Winchester pre 64 mod 70 USMC SNIPER. I have a few pre 64 mod 70's, so why not build one. </div></div>
You do know you will kill the value of a pre-64 Winchester. These are highly collectaple as is. </div></div>
n64atlas, that's a good point and always a difficult choice when looking at a "project".
As is the issue of later, unscupulous owners/sellers claiming it to be something other than it really is. Although you can easily take steps to prevent that happening.
I'm not one for advocating historical vandalism of rare firearms, but there will always be a greater demand for scarce, historically interesting variations of rifles than supply.
I'd agree that a garage hack job will seriously screw the value of any rifle.
But, whilst they may never have the kudos or value of an original, a well-done professional replica/clone/copy (call it what you like) will always find a ready market. Look at GAP/TBA's replica / spec builds.
If ( as in the OP's case) you have a number of these rifles already and can't afford or find an original, why not look into the possibilities? I'm sure not all the rifles are in premium "collector grade" condition and it is a great way to bring some life back into a tired example - provided that it first passes the fundamental criteria of still being a good, accurate shooter!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: n64atlas</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking for build spec's for a Winchester pre 64 mod 70 USMC SNIPER. I have a few pre 64 mod 70's, so why not build one. </div></div>
You do know you will kill the value of a pre-64 Winchester. These are highly collectaple as is. </div></div>
n64atlas, that's a good point and always a difficult choice when looking at a "project".
As is the issue of later, unscupulous owners/sellers claiming it to be something other than it really is. Although you can easily take steps to prevent that happening.
I'm not one for advocating historical vandalism of rare firearms, but there will always be a greater demand for scarce, historically interesting variations of rifles than supply.
I'd agree that a garage hack job will seriously screw the value of any rifle.
But, whilst they may never have the kudos or value of an original, a well-done professional replica/clone/copy (call it what you like) will always find a ready market. Look at GAP/TBA's replica / spec builds.
If ( as in the OP's case) you have a number of these rifles already and can't afford or find an original, why not look into the possibilities? I'm sure not all the rifles are in premium "collector grade" condition and it is a great way to bring some life back into a tired example - provided that it first passes the fundamental criteria of still being a good, accurate shooter!
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking for build spec's for a Winchester pre 64 mod 70 USMC SNIPER. I have a few pre 64 mod 70's, so why not build one.</div></div>
I pretty much did that. Only I used a post 64 action I had laying around. I got a new surplus military Model 70 target barrel from someone here on the Hide (forgot who).
I shot it a thousand yard match and shot the best score since I got back into long range shooting. Excellent shooter.
I haven't found the scope I wanted for it yet, so I'm using a Weaver T-10, and Redfield Olympic sights.
I'd say go for it.
Forgot to add, mine's Army not Marine
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking for build spec's for a Winchester pre 64 mod 70 USMC SNIPER. I have a few pre 64 mod 70's, so why not build one.</div></div>
I pretty much did that. Only I used a post 64 action I had laying around. I got a new surplus military Model 70 target barrel from someone here on the Hide (forgot who).
I shot it a thousand yard match and shot the best score since I got back into long range shooting. Excellent shooter.
I haven't found the scope I wanted for it yet, so I'm using a Weaver T-10, and Redfield Olympic sights.
I'd say go for it.
Forgot to add, mine's Army not Marine
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
I really do not think there is much to getting it done. Mike Lau can set one up correctly. To get it really correct, you need an action between about 40,000 and under 50,000. See the book as indicated above. The USMC scope is the expensive part. You can use a target barrel from Win or a Dougles as the USMC used both. Standard stock with opened barrel channel. If you do not need a USMC marked Unertl, you can just use any target type scope, Lyman etc. of 8-12 power. This will reduce your cost about 4k or so.
Have fun.
I really do not think there is much to getting it done. Mike Lau can set one up correctly. To get it really correct, you need an action between about 40,000 and under 50,000. See the book as indicated above. The USMC scope is the expensive part. You can use a target barrel from Win or a Dougles as the USMC used both. Standard stock with opened barrel channel. If you do not need a USMC marked Unertl, you can just use any target type scope, Lyman etc. of 8-12 power. This will reduce your cost about 4k or so.
Have fun.
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
I`ve always figured that the least expensive route is to use a pre '64 Model 70 Target, and drop in into a pre '64 low comb stock- the stocks come up from time to time on Ebay.
The Model 70 target would of course already be complete with the correct target weight barrel and the proper Winchester factory scope blocks.
Enlarge the barrel channel in the low comb stock and all that`s left is a scope.
The standard 1 1/4" Unertl scopes are pretty hard to find, and of course the USMC marked scopes are very expensive when you do come across them.
There is a copy of the USMC scope being made that IIRC is due out in Feb. 2012.
I`ve always figured that the least expensive route is to use a pre '64 Model 70 Target, and drop in into a pre '64 low comb stock- the stocks come up from time to time on Ebay.
The Model 70 target would of course already be complete with the correct target weight barrel and the proper Winchester factory scope blocks.
Enlarge the barrel channel in the low comb stock and all that`s left is a scope.
The standard 1 1/4" Unertl scopes are pretty hard to find, and of course the USMC marked scopes are very expensive when you do come across them.
There is a copy of the USMC scope being made that IIRC is due out in Feb. 2012.
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.................................
There is a copy of the USMC scope being made that IIRC is due out in Feb. 2012. </div></div>
http://www.hi-luxoptics.com/
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.................................
There is a copy of the USMC scope being made that IIRC is due out in Feb. 2012. </div></div>
http://www.hi-luxoptics.com/
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
Here's a link that might help, http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/m40.pdf
Here's a link that might help, http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/m40.pdf
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Msr_762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know the correct Unertl Bases used on the USMC M70? </div></div>
I'll get my rifle out and pull the bases off and let you know what they are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Msr_762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know the correct Unertl Bases used on the USMC M70? </div></div>
I'll get my rifle out and pull the bases off and let you know what they are.
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
There are a couple of these originals on display at the Marine Corps Museum in Quantico. I am sure one of the curators there can assist with information, as can the curators at the National Firearms Museum or the Aberdeen collection.
My guess is that your best bet is to write some letters to the curators/researchers. Explain your project and see if you can get some first-hand info.
Cheers,
Sirhr
There are a couple of these originals on display at the Marine Corps Museum in Quantico. I am sure one of the curators there can assist with information, as can the curators at the National Firearms Museum or the Aberdeen collection.
My guess is that your best bet is to write some letters to the curators/researchers. Explain your project and see if you can get some first-hand info.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
You guys do realize the Vietnam Marine M70's were off the shelfriflesfrom the Okinawa PX, with Jap glass or a Redfield 3x9 nailed on top, right?
The Unertls were few and far between because the Springfield Sniper rifle was eliminated in 1953 or 54 from the inventory and were sold off. Very few remained, usually in Marine match team armories.
The handful of USMC model 70's in inventory with a Unertl were match rifles with manufacture dates in the 40's. Many of those weren't equiped with the 8x Sniper Unertl, but higher power target models. Very few, especially because there were only a few to start with, saw Vietnam service.
You guys do realize the Vietnam Marine M70's were off the shelfriflesfrom the Okinawa PX, with Jap glass or a Redfield 3x9 nailed on top, right?
The Unertls were few and far between because the Springfield Sniper rifle was eliminated in 1953 or 54 from the inventory and were sold off. Very few remained, usually in Marine match team armories.
The handful of USMC model 70's in inventory with a Unertl were match rifles with manufacture dates in the 40's. Many of those weren't equiped with the 8x Sniper Unertl, but higher power target models. Very few, especially because there were only a few to start with, saw Vietnam service.
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
+1
The books clearly show a variety of scopes both Unertl x8 contract scopes and also higher mag x10 and x20 1.25" and 2" Unertls, Lymans and the Japanese made "Marine" brand x3-x9.
Senich mentions that the M70's were fitted with commercially available bases (blocks) dimensioned to fit standard target rifle mounts from Lyman, Unertl etc..
But....I can understand the fascination of the x8 USMC Unertl. It's an iconic scope.
But for anyone looking to use a genuine Redfield (either on an M70 or M40 expense no object, spec build) the guy I got my USMC x8 from has this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-EXTREMELY-S...=item2eb6183c9a
+1
The books clearly show a variety of scopes both Unertl x8 contract scopes and also higher mag x10 and x20 1.25" and 2" Unertls, Lymans and the Japanese made "Marine" brand x3-x9.
Senich mentions that the M70's were fitted with commercially available bases (blocks) dimensioned to fit standard target rifle mounts from Lyman, Unertl etc..
But....I can understand the fascination of the x8 USMC Unertl. It's an iconic scope.
But for anyone looking to use a genuine Redfield (either on an M70 or M40 expense no object, spec build) the guy I got my USMC x8 from has this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-EXTREMELY-S...=item2eb6183c9a
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
BasraBoy said:
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
I have "The One Round War" book. I just had my nose in it looking at some m40 specs. If you need anything from that book on the m70 shoot me a pm and ill get the info to you!
Saw a pre 64 mod 70 at a gun show about a month ago. I picked it up but just wasn't looking for that gun while I was there so I didn't purchase it. Kinda wish I would have now
I have "The One Round War" book. I just had my nose in it looking at some m40 specs. If you need anything from that book on the m70 shoot me a pm and ill get the info to you!
Saw a pre 64 mod 70 at a gun show about a month ago. I picked it up but just wasn't looking for that gun while I was there so I didn't purchase it. Kinda wish I would have now
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
According to "The One Round War", here is a few specs that I found really fast on the mod 70.
Caliber: 30.06
Length: 44 inches
Weight: 10 lbs
Weight with Unertl telescope: 11 lbs. 9 oz.
Barrel length(medium heavy): 24 inches
Lands and grooves: 4
Twist, right hand: 1 turn in 10 inches
Trigger weight(recommended): 3 to 5 lbs.
Magazine capacity: 5 rounds
Maximum effective range: 1000 meters
According to "The One Round War", here is a few specs that I found really fast on the mod 70.
Caliber: 30.06
Length: 44 inches
Weight: 10 lbs
Weight with Unertl telescope: 11 lbs. 9 oz.
Barrel length(medium heavy): 24 inches
Lands and grooves: 4
Twist, right hand: 1 turn in 10 inches
Trigger weight(recommended): 3 to 5 lbs.
Magazine capacity: 5 rounds
Maximum effective range: 1000 meters
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
I built one it has a 24 inch and Douglas Air guage XX in 30-06 it is .875 at the muzzle action is Winchester built in 1953 org wood stock I opened up the barrel channel to take the heavey barrel.Steel butt plate Org trigger set at 3 lbs. Bedding I used Devcon Steel Puddy. On top the scope is a Unertl 2 1/2 Programmer 10X. It shoots under 1/2 all day long and will shoot 1/8th inch groups if I use my reloads. It like the Norma MRP and 168 matchking.
I built one it has a 24 inch and Douglas Air guage XX in 30-06 it is .875 at the muzzle action is Winchester built in 1953 org wood stock I opened up the barrel channel to take the heavey barrel.Steel butt plate Org trigger set at 3 lbs. Bedding I used Devcon Steel Puddy. On top the scope is a Unertl 2 1/2 Programmer 10X. It shoots under 1/2 all day long and will shoot 1/8th inch groups if I use my reloads. It like the Norma MRP and 168 matchking.
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
Here's mine. If you have any questions let me know.
Here's mine. If you have any questions let me know.
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
Moon at GA did the work on the barrel and action.
Moon at GA did the work on the barrel and action.
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
hula,
That is one beautiful rifle! Got a picture of any groups?
hula,
That is one beautiful rifle! Got a picture of any groups?
Re: want to build a USMC SNIPER on Win pre 64 mod 70
Na,I only zero on paper then shoot steel the rest of the time. It's been bedded, 2lb trigger and typical GAP work so it can out shoot the shooter. LOL I'm sure it'll lay down 3/4 moa if not better. I've worked it out to 800 consistently and still tinker with the unertl.
Na,I only zero on paper then shoot steel the rest of the time. It's been bedded, 2lb trigger and typical GAP work so it can out shoot the shooter. LOL I'm sure it'll lay down 3/4 moa if not better. I've worked it out to 800 consistently and still tinker with the unertl.
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