Range Report Warner Tool Flat Line Projectile 122gr 6.5 Variant

[bohem]

Has anyone on the hide other than frank had any good success with these? I saw another thread of a guy having problems loading with a creed. Just curious if anyone has gotten them to work, and if so what are they experiencing.

The 122 doesn't like the jump that comes from factory throated 6.5's that have rounds down them.
When I did prototype testing it was a SAAMI chamber but it was brand new, 20rds of box ammo and then right to the flatlines.
I didn't have any problems but then again it was a really good match barrel not a mass produced, who knows what the throat/twist/bore dimensions are barrel.

The problems that we've seen have almost universally come from things like RPR's, Tikka CTR's, Savage factory barrels.

There are a few things going on but the looooong throats traditionally cut into factory barrels are not a friend of the 6.5
Other things are ahppening too, I got my hands on an RPR OEM barrel that shot factory ammo well (appx 3/4") and the flatlines were shotgunning and fouling like crazy. Slugged the barrel and found out it was nearly 1.5 thou oversize. Heavy jacketed bullets obturated into the bore and had a lot less fouling and sealed up well. Not so with the 122's. The barrel twist was closer to 8.5 than 8 on the CTR that gave a local guy fits.

About 2 years ago I had a guy call me an cuss me sideways for the 198 not shooting in his 300 Norma.

His jump to the lands was 360 thou, almost 1.2 bullet diameters. Yet because the bullets were expensive they were supposed to magically deal with a jump that long. When I asked "what do you jump those 230's at?"
18 thousandths...

So 20x more jump with the 198s and it was a bad bullet design.
As soon as his buddy, a customer of mine, put them in a 300WSM he fired 6 rounds.
3@100 clover leaf
3@ 1,000 were sub 4"

 

[acourvil]

It would be great to get some data on a few rifles that ARE shooting the 6.5 122gn flatlines successfully, i.e. twist, rifling, fps, jump etc.

 

[TCG76]

Anyone have a load for the 122 flatlines ?

 

[christopher.dow]

I replicated @Lowlight’s 100-yd groupings from the original post using his 4166 load and COAL. I needed 0.8 mils @ 300 instead of 0.7, but my DA was negative and he’s in CO.

This was from a TL3 with a Proof barrel.

 

[408w]

I have a new box of them for $40 shipped if anyone wants to try them out. 121g /6.5mm

 

[Lonestar1027]

I'll take them. PM your paypal info please

 

[Mvgratz]

Alright since I've been getting pm's about my setup and data ill just lay out what I have experienced so far. Let me start off by saying that Warner tool has been a great company to work with and Dan has been very helpful in my specific situation, I look forward in continuing to deal with them in the future.

the rifle:

Savage Model 12 LRP
.260 remington
26'' stock barrel
1-8 twist

my standard load is
42.5gr H4350
Berger Hybrid or RDF
CCI primer
0.030 off
2850fps
1/2 moa


the flatline load data:

Using a Hornady overall length tool and a flatline projectile I measure my lands at 3.287'' ,using the Hornady 5-26 bullet comparator. This means to obtain the 0.030'' jump that I decided to start with I had to seat my rounds at 3.257'' ,again this was using the comparator. When I measure the COAL of a finished round without a comparator I get a measurement of 2.990''.

My goal was to get these flatlines to over 3100fps like the article explained.
Using the Quickload data and an email that I received from Warner Tool I decided to try Reloader 17 and Varget first.

Lapua brass
CCI BR2 primers
the above measurements

RL17 - Quickload showed this going up to 43.78gr at 3141 fps

41.6 - 3011
41.9 - 3065
42.2 - 3089
42.5 - 3095
42.8 - 3118
43.1 - 3105
I began to show pressure at 42.5gr but very slight, I stopped at 43.1 because i didn't feel safe going any higher based on what I was seeing.


Varget - It was suggested that I start at 41gr and work up from there

41.0 - 3099
41.3 - 3115
Normally I wouldn't shoot another if I popped a primer but I did this time to see if it was due to a loose primer pocket. BOTH of these loads blew primers.

that all was on Saturday, after speaking with dan and a few others my results seemed off and the possibility of an error on my end seemed likely in my opinion so today I returned to the shop and tore all the rounds down that I didn't shoot yesterday. I re measured anything and everything I could think of and didn't find any wrong per se. Being as I'm pretty familiar with H4350 and I get great results with it I figured today I would try it with the Flatlines. I used the same measurements and brass, primers as before, just a different powder.


H4350

40.0 - 2959
40.3 - 2966
40.6 - 2963
40.9 - 2970
41.2 - 2993
41.5 - 3007
41.8 - 3016
42.1 - 3037
42.4 - 3049
42.7 - 3058
43.0 - 3100
I began to show very slight pressure at 42.1 and by the time i reached 43.0 it was very prominent so I stopped there.

All of the velocities recorded were using a Labradar.

As you can see I was shooting ladders to find OCW. I was shooting at 300 yards. Today using the H4350 on shots 3,4, and 11 I had Key holes indicating the bullet was tumbling. This never showed itself with the RL17. I'm a bit confused at this point and I plan on watching this thread to see how other people and their loads develop. Any suggestions or CONSTRUCTIVE criticism are welcome.

Brock

I know this is an old thread but I’m trying to find Warner bullets in Quickload without any success. Any idea what bullet file they have them hidden under?

 

[acourvil]

They aren’t in quickload, you would need to build the profile yourself. They load info that Warner publishes is generated iwith quickload, but the profile they use isn’t obvious. BTW, the newer 123gn 6.5 is a lot easier to get working than the old 121/122 6.5, at least it was for me.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Are all these common problems with solid bullets or unique to warner?

 

[Dan Warner]

I'd be happy to discuss the inclusion of the Flatlines with the QL folks, but they seemed uninterested last time i spoke to them. I do not share bullet files with individuals. The reason is that QL over estimates pressure and under estimates velocity unless weighing factor and initial start pressure are adjusted. Knowing how much to modify them can be hap hazard. Enter a solid projectile and even light starting loads erroneously show pressure. The last thing i want to do is scare folks off because they think they are at or over pressure when they are not even close to it.

 

[Defender3]

I've had 100 of the 121s sitting waiting for a good reason to load them up. I just upgraded to an AI AX in .260 with a 26" tube and I think it's time. While I shoot at Quantico, I just found a 1-mile event only an hour or so from the house.

Two questions for the hive:

Anyone using a .260 AI with a Win Tac, have you found a jump the barrel prefers?

Any preference between the 121s versus the 123S?

 

[Bradu]

I've had 100 of the 121s sitting waiting for a good reason to load them up. I just upgraded to an AI AX in .260 with a 26" tube and I think it's time. While I shoot at Quantico, I just found a 1-mile event only an hour or so from the house.

Two questions for the hive:

Anyone using a .260 AI with a Win Tac, have you found a jump the barrel prefers?

Any preference between the 121s versus the 123S?

I still have 121s in the cabinet because I couldn't get them to shoot out of my short throat 260 even seated close to the lands. I think the 123s are supposed to be easier to get to shoot.

 

[Defender3]

I still have 121s in the cabinet because I couldn't get them to shoot out of my short throat 260 even seated close to the lands. I think the 123s are supposed to be easier to get to shoot.

I'll have to measure this barrel, but I think it may be a bit long in the throat. Maybe another AI 260 shooter can chime in.

 

[Defender3]

I just measured the 123gr flatlines to the lands in my AI AX in .260 with a 26" WinTac barrel. Bit of a difference from the 121s - 3.0250 for the 123s versus a 2.9650 for the 121s. I guess I won't be mag loading these.

Here are the BTOs:

121gr:

123gr:

 

[Bender830]

I just measured the 123gr flatlines to the lands in my AI AX in .260 with a 26" WinTac barrel. Bit of a difference from the 121s - 3.0250 for the 123s versus a 2.9650 for the 121s. I guess I won't be mag loading these.

That's the OAL? If so then what are the ogive numbers via comparator?

 

[Defender3]

That's the OAL? If so then what are the ogive numbers via comparator?

Sorry, I only did the OAL for now. I'll see if I can throw each in the comparator tonight.

 

[Defender3]

@Bender830

BTOs posted above.

 

[Defender3]

I loaded some flatlines today for ladder testing. Given the lack of open source data or a bullet library in Quick Load, I reached out to Dan Warner for some help. He was nice enough to run a data sheet for me, during the Holidays no less that formed the basis for my loads. I was probably too cautious as no load exhibited any signs of pressure so I left some speed on the table.

I loaded all using virgin Lapua brass with a water volume of 53.3grs, and F210M primers. H4895 (37.5 - 39.3), RL-16 (41.8 - 43.6) and Varget (39.6 - 41.4), with a set of 10 at a 2.880 OAL and 10 at a 3.000 OAL. Speeds were good, but I can still go higher: H4895 - 2989; RL-16 - 2980 and the Varget was at 3077.

Some combinations worked better than others.. I'm still analyzing the data and targets, but I'm going to try and work the RL-16 over 3000fps and tweak the BTO of the Varget at about 3068fps.

The 2.880 fit the AI mag, but the 3.000 was a single feed (I know, Captain Obvious).

 

[lash]

Good info! I’ll be watching to see your results with these.