Gunsmithing WARNING DON'T TRUST CARBON SIX

[flogxal]

Honestly I never trust stated lead times, even if they're "promised" in a conversation with an employee. I got some good advice from a guy who used to be a professional/sponsored shooter: "Take any lead time someone tells you and triple it. You'll never be disappointed that way."

I hope no one takes that as a dig at gunsmiths or barrel mfgs. I know there are a lot of good people in the industry working long hours and trying their best to keep the backlog as short as possible. Just...shit happens for them just like it does for the rest of us. Tooling breaks, they get sick, their kids get sick, the dog eats a golf ball and has to go to the vet, or whatever.

Inevitably when you hire a craftsman (as opposed to a businessman) you are hiring an individual with individual talents worthy of your $$. This means they behave more like an artist, than like a businessman, because of their individuality vs pure-business-all-business approach. It may irritate the impatient, but this individuality and the quirks it carries on timing of projects, it really is what you pay for and why you go to the small craftsman shop. Be flexible and you will likely be very happy.

I saw this play out as an eager 18 yr old kid who dropped off a 351C block and heads to a locally respected machine shop. His rep, great work but don't hold your breath waiting on it.

Saw it play out 20 years later buying a custom steel mtn bike frame. It was ready when it was ready, not when he promised it would be ready.

You don't want the craftsman to drop his attention toward his craft, to be a "more predictable businessman" unless you want him to degrade his work. That's how I see it.

 

[Sigma]

1. Is that a Carbon barrel?
2. Are those groups larger than 4 rds?
3. What do you think that proves?

yeah its a carbon.

no they are 2 shot groups. 100 yards.

here was the 2 shot group (34.5) after those 33.0, 33.5 and 34.0 charges i posted previously, as you can see i blew out the node (charge started getting a little hot).

they were are all shot about 5 mins apart in some windy and gusty conditions (waited to shooting during the let offs.

i did move the poi after my 33.0 and 33.5 groups.

you think 4 back to back 2 shot groups across 5% powder charges all shooting under 1/4 moa doesn't prove anything at all?

when you know a gun is capable of shooting in the 1's you can do things differently than a walmart hunting gun as you have different expectations on how it should shoot.

i didn't want to get off topic, i'm just saying that so far this proof carbon on my specialty hunting pistol build is shooting in line with what I would expect from a brux, bartlein, or krieger on my traditional benchrest rifles

 

[db2000]

yeah its a carbon.

no they are 2 shot groups. 100 yards.

here was the 2 shot group (34.5) after those 33.0, 33.5 and 34.0 charges i posted previously, as you can see i blew out the node (charge started getting a little hot).

they were are all shot about 5 mins apart in some windy and gusty conditions (waited to shooting during the let offs.

i did move the poi after my 33.0 and 33.5 groups.

you think 4 back to back 2 shot groups across 5% powder charges all shooting under 1/4 moa doesn't prove anything at all?

when you know a gun is capable of shooting in the 1's you can do things differently than a walmart hunting gun as you have different expectations on how it should shoot.

i didn't want to get off topic, i'm just saying that so far this proof carbon on my specialty hunting pistol build is shooting in line with what I would expect from a brux, bartlein, or krieger on my traditional benchrest rifles

It’s not about opinions, it’s about facts.

A few 2 shot groups, in fact, doesn’t prove anything other than it can shoot 2 shot groups as they are with those combos.
IF, you take the best group and reproduce those 2 shot groups with a cold barrel again and again then you “prove” it might make a great hunting rifle…IF you never need to shoot more than twice and only at 100 yards. It MIGHT continue that consistency at further distance and/or with more shots or it might not.
Hopefully that helps clarify. No one serious about shooting is going to put any stock in 2 shot groups. Just letting you know. Good luck with it. It will likely shoot great.

 

[Holliday]

Judas freakin Priest, reading through this thread it is no freaking wonder why customers in the gun industry get treated the way they do.

I run a small business and if I treated my customers (the ones who feed, clothe and house me) like this, I would find a tree and throw a rope.

Since I have been a member here the shenanigans have witnessed, then the people victim, blaming and shaming, never fails to utterly amaze me. I have experienced some of these shenanigans firsthand. Fortunately, I don’t have enough disposable income to get myself in serious hot water with some of these idiots.

Business practices and ethics are something I discuss quite a bit with people. I have dealt with many, many industries over the course of my life. Too many damn hobbies, interests and business ventures. The gun industry bar none, is the example I use of terrible business practices and customer Stockholm syndrome. I have never seen anything like it anywhere else.

At the bare minimum these businesses could stop acting like prissy high school mean-girls and properly communicate. ESPECIALLY when they have someone’s money. It costs you nothing to properly communicate and fall on the proverbial bended knee when you screw up.

To the folks and businesses who have offered to help this guy out without victim shaming/blaming, I commend you. Well damn done.

 

[Sigma]

It’s not about opinions, it’s about facts.

A few 2 shot groups, in fact, doesn’t prove anything other than it can shoot 2 shot groups as they are with those combos.
IF, you take the best group and reproduce those 2 shot groups with a cold barrel again and again then you “prove” it might make a great hunting rifle…IF you never need to shoot more than twice and only at 100 yards. It MIGHT continue that consistency at further distance and/or with more shots or it might not.
Hopefully that helps clarify. No one serious about shooting is going to put any stock in 2 shot groups. Just letting you know. Good luck with it. It will likely shoot great.

it's just for testing different bullets and identifying nodes. i'm on shot #90 with this barrel and other combos have been doing the same. so far it's been very promising that this barrel is going to hammer.

i have a 28" proof carbon on a 338 reaper build i bought second hand and seems to be a hammer as well

edit: i was leary on proof as i thought i needed a bartlein carbon or similar, so far the proofs have been meeting my demands. i cannot speak for the prefits.

 

[db2000]

it's just for testing different bullets and identifying nodes. i'm on shot #90 with this barrel and other combos have been doing the same. so far it's been very promising that this barrel is going to hammer.

i have a 28" proof carbon on a 338 reaper build i bought second hand and seems to be a hammer as well

Now that’s a statement I can get behind.

 

[Sigma]

Judas freakin Priest, reading through this thread it is no freaking wonder why customers in the gun industry get treated the way they do.

I run a small business and if I treated my customers (the ones who feed, clothe and house me) like this, I would find a tree and throw a rope.

Since I have been a member here the shenanigans have witnessed, then the people victim, blaming and shaming, never fails to utterly amaze me. I have experienced some of these shenanigans firsthand. Fortunately, I don’t have enough disposable income to get myself in serious hot water with some of these idiots.

Business practices and ethics are something I discuss quite a bit with people. I have dealt with many, many industries over the course of my life. Too many damn hobbies, interests and business ventures. The gun industry bar none, is the example I use of terrible business practices and customer Stockholm syndrome. I have never seen anything like it anywhere else.

At the bare minimum these businesses could stop acting like prissy high school mean-girls and properly communicate. ESPECIALLY when they have someone’s money. It costs you nothing to properly communicate and fall on the proverbial bended knee when you screw up.

To the folks and businesses who have offered to help this guy out without victim shaming/blaming, I commend you. Well damn done.

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its no secret that building a custom is typically a nightmare of unknown and extended wait times, but I agree it shouldn't be that way when people are shelling out the amount of money this stuff costs.

and agreed, big props to the few kind folks that stepped up offered their rigs to this gentleman. great example of the people and generosity within the gun community.