WARNING on Freedom Munitions .308Win 168gr A-Max

[Marc1776]

I bought 1000 rds of this ammo at the tail end of Covid (because who knew what was coming), and selectively shot it in a Ruger RPR and Christensen MPR, and had several primers blow out and get stuck in the bolt face. Not a huge problem in a bolt gun. But then I shot this ammo through my Ruger SFAR and also Ruger SR-762, and this is when I realized this ammo is truly defective and unacceptable. The primer blow-outs continued, and led to primers getting stuck between the BCG and upper, requiring me to use brass punches to hammer the BCG out and clear the problem. Upon deep cleaning, some pieces of primer had even made it into the firing pin opening, jamming the firing pin (this also happened with the Christensen).
I contacted Freedom and send pictures of several of the shells with blown out primers, and also of the 720 remaining rounds, and allowed for several days for some sort of action from Freedom, to replace the ammo, but no joy; hence this warning to others.

 

[BurtG]

Sounds like was good in bolt guns ?

 

[Terry Cross]

I bought 1000 rds of this ammo at the tail end of Covid (because who knew what was coming),

So the ammo was purchased 3 or 4 years ago?

and selectively shot it in a Ruger RPR and Christensen MPR, and had several primers blow out and get stuck in the bolt face. Not a huge problem in a bolt gun.

Really?
How is that not a huge problem?

But then I shot this ammo through my Ruger SFAR and also Ruger SR-762, and this is when I realized this ammo is truly defective and unacceptable.

Ummmm. . . .
With all of the above HUGE issues exposed when you first started shooting this ammunition, is it reasonable to assume that you should have realized this immediately rather than months or years later?

The primer blow-outs continued, and led to primers getting stuck between the BCG and upper, requiring me to use brass punches to hammer the BCG out and clear the problem. Upon deep cleaning, some pieces of primer had even made it into the firing pin opening, jamming the firing pin (this also happened with the Christensen).
I contacted Freedom and send pictures of several of the shells with blown out primers, and also of the 720 remaining rounds, and allowed for several days for some sort of action from Freedom, to replace the ammo, but no joy; hence this warning to others.

I'm not defending Freedom.
Since this ammo is showing serious issues across multiple factory rifles, I am sure it is shitty quality and maybe even dangerous.

However. . . . I think you are past your prime window of legitimate bitching by waiting years after the purchase to complain.

 

[Terry Cross]

Sounds like was good in bolt guns ?

Fuck no!
He knew he was having issues even in two separate bolt guns from the beginning.
.
.
.
.
. . . but. . .
.
.
"Not a huge problem in a bolt gun." per the OP.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Yes Freedom Munitions is trash ammo, always has been and likely will be. This is pretty well documented. They should replace defective ammo but if they did that they’d be out of business. So outside of someone filing a lawsuit within the statute of limitations (which you’re probably well beyond) or a gun blowing up and injuring someone ASGH.

Use better judgement. Don’t buy ammo that is known to be shit. When ammo is showing crazy high pressures in a bolt gun, don’t continue shooting it let alone shoot it in a gas gun… multiple times from the sound of it…

Most importantly don’t lose your mind and buy into the foolish panics and go out and scarf up whatever you can because “who knows what might happen”. That is absolutely stupid behavior and it’s been happening over and over and over again since I’ve been involved in this hobby and every time people think “this is the one, I better stock up” and every single time not a fucking thing happens.

 

[Redlion]

A solid reminder to stick to buying and using Hornady A-Max ammo.

 

[BurtG]

Fuck no!
He knew he was having issues even in two separate bolt guns from the beginning.
.
.
.
.
. . . but. . .
.
.
"Not a huge problem in a bolt gun." per the OP.

I missed the blowing primers in bolt gun

I am a skim reader at times.

I am a fan of hot ammo not to the point of blowing primers tho

 

[redneckbmxer24]

A solid reminder to stick to buying and using Hornady A-Max ammo.

Yes because Frontier (Hornady) doesn’t have tons of reports of high pressure in bolt and gas guns, ELD-M’s that fragment half way to the target, and other reports of general QC issues.

Just a couple months ago I received yet another defective batch of Hornady ammo where 75% of the bullets were fucked up from their seating process and they tried to give me the run around after first agreeing to replace it by stating that there was nothing wrong with the ammo and I was just being particular when the ammo shot 5-8MOA in a gun that shoots good lots sub MOA.

Hornady isn’t total garbage and they’ll make it right if you press them, but they absolutely are not the gold standard of ammunition and components or anywhere close to it. They could do a lot better.

 

[drglock]

Ho we shizt

When your ejector swipe is so deep it casts a shadow.

Nothing wrong here, just move along

 

[Terry Cross]

I am a skim reader at times.

Got me beat. I can barely read. Big words and I'm fucked.

I am a fan of hot ammo not to the point of blowing primers tho

Same here, lol.

Big fan of Speed Kills.

 

[BurtG]

Yes because Frontier (Hornady) doesn’t have tons of reports of high pressure in bolt and gas guns, ELD-M’s that fragment half way to the target, and other reports of general QC issue

Hornady is good shit. Those frotnier 55s were awesome when they first came out hot and accurate af

 

[vh20]

Yes Freedom Munitions is trash ammo, always has been and likely will be. This is pretty well documented. They should replace defective ammo but if they did that they’d be out of business.

Also, if they did that, it would almost certainly be replaced with more defective ammo.

 

[Im2bent]

Yes because Frontier (Hornady) doesn’t have tons of reports of high pressure in bolt and gas guns, ELD-M’s that fragment half way to the target, and other reports of general QC issues.

Just a couple months ago I received yet another defective batch of Hornady ammo where 75% of the bullets were fucked up from their seating process and they tried to give me the run around after first agreeing to replace it by stating that there was nothing wrong with the ammo and I was just being particular when the ammo shot 5-8MOA in a gun that shoots good lots sub MOA.

Hornady isn’t total garbage and they’ll make it right if you press them, but they absolutely are not the gold standard of ammunition and components or anywhere close to it. They could do a lot better.

Here they went the extra mile to trim those for you and all you can do is bitch.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Hornady is good shit.

It’s not though. If you happen to get a good lot then yes it will be good ammo but never great or exceptional. Their problem is that their lot to lot consistency is absolutely horrible and it’s been that way since before Covid and powder availability and every other possible excuse. I have experienced this over and over again buying their ammo because I continue to use it even though I would not overall generalize their products as “good shit”. I feel like “usually acceptable” would be more accurate.

 

[smoothy8500]

I contacted Freedom, and allowed for several days for some sort of action from Freedom

They figured you'd wait another 3 years for a response.....

 

[db2000]

The simple fact that you ran it through a gasser kinda explains everything here.

 

[Big Phish]

You pulled the bullets to see whats in side for comparison.

 

[Im2bent]

You bullet the bullets to see whats in side for comparison.

How do you bullet a bullet?

 

[Marc1776]

Sounds like was good in bolt guns ?

It wasn’t “good”, but in the bolt guns, since the cycling is manual, I was able to easily determine when a primer blew out and could remove the debris from the bolt face or lug area. However, on several occasions the debris (shavings, essentially) entered the firing pin orifice and blocked the firing pin (this is in the Christensen), requiring removal before it would operate again (the firing pin would be jammed in place and not fire subsequent rounds).

 

[Marc1776]

I get that it’s a long time since I bought the stuff - and I’m “past my prime” for asking for replacement - no argument.
But I did buy this and keep it in climate controlled environment (the safe is inside the house with dessicant packets) and should last longer. Hell, I have Bullets First 175gr SMK older that simply rocks, but some rifles prefer the 168gr weight for accuracy.
I posted because:
1) y’all should know about the ammo itself, and
2) because I’ve had no response whatsoever from Freedom…even to say “too late”
Posted FWIW, use the info or don’t - entirely up to you.
Note I’ve bought 155gr BTHP from Freedom which has been good. It’s just this 168gr that seems the problem - maybe it was a batch issue with primers (or the operator loading the rounds)

 

[Marc1776]

That is to say “caveat emptor”

 

[Marc1776]

And I will shoot it in the bolts guns (checking each ejected casing), if there’s no traction achieved with Freedom

 

[Big Phish]

How do you bullet a bullet?

Stupid retarded phone auto correct. Ugh
"pulled"

 

[Big Phish]

What I would suspects would be did you chrono the loads to see if you running higher than normal fps? Could be loose primers, brass may have loose pockets that don't hold the primers well. There is a number of things to troubleshoot before just blaming something else on it.

 

[Terry Cross]

And I will shoot it in the bolts guns (checking each ejected casing), if there’s no traction achieved with Freedom

Why would you do this?

Bad move.
Would not recommend.
0/10
Two thumbs down.


Ammunition that is known to be out of spec. >
Shooting it anyway. >>
Trashing your breech faces, firing pins and possibly triggers. >>
Just asking for a complete case rupture that will put your ass in the hospital / blind you/ kill you / injure someone close to your firing position. > >

When you sign back onto this forum in a few months to complain about your damaged rifles and missing fingers, . . . . . you better come up with a different screen name because even the dumbass heathens (of which I am proudly one of) in this forum have your personality figured out.

 

[Redlion]

Yes because Frontier (Hornady) doesn’t have tons of reports of high pressure in bolt and gas guns, ELD-M’s that fragment half way to the target, and other reports of general QC issues.

Just a couple months ago I received yet another defective batch of Hornady ammo where 75% of the bullets were fucked up from their seating process and they tried to give me the run around after first agreeing to replace it by stating that there was nothing wrong with the ammo and I was just being particular when the ammo shot 5-8MOA in a gun that shoots good lots sub MOA.

Hornady isn’t total garbage and they’ll make it right if you press them, but they absolutely are not the gold standard of ammunition and components or anywhere close to it. They could do a lot better.

I guess I have been lucky then. My 18" Grendel shoots Frontier 123grn sub-moa. My 20" Large Frame .308 shoots Hornady Black .308 A Max ammo sub-moa. I have not had a problem with any Hornady ammo. Of course, I do not shoot (go through ammo) nearly as much as you likely do.

 

[tekmann2377]

Any time a primer exits a case without a decapping die, that is a bad sign for pressure. You know this, but continued shooting.

The only acceptable way to deal with this is stop shooting and pull down the rounds to reduce the charge. This is done with a bullet puller. Or get replacement ammo from Freedom.

I didn't know that SSA made the brass for Freedom Munitions. I guess it is possible but that would be the first factory ammo I have seen loaded with that.

 

[Marc1776]

Why would you do this?

Bad move.
Would not recommend.
0/10
Two thumbs down.


Ammunition that is known to be out of spec. >
Shooting it anyway. >>
Trashing your breech faces, firing pins and possibly triggers. >>
Just asking for a complete case rupture that will put your ass in the hospital / blind you/ kill you / injure someone close to your firing position. > >

When you sign back onto this forum in a few months to complain about your damaged rifles and missing fingers, . . . . . you better come up with a different screen name because even the dumbass heathens (of which I am proudly one of) in this forum have your personality figured out.

Got it; I guess if no joy from Freedom I’m resigned to having 720 rounds of unusable ammo. Maybe I’ll find a Reloader that can pull the projectiles, re-fit the brass (they’re unfired) change out the primers and reload it for me.

 

[Marc1776]

Any time a primer exits a case without a decapping die, that is a bad sign for pressure. You know this, but continued shooting.

The only acceptable way to deal with this is stop shooting and pull down the rounds to reduce the charge. This is done with a bullet puller. Or get replacement ammo from Freedom.

I didn't know that SSA made the brass for Freedom Munitions. I guess it is possible but that would be the first factory ammo I have seen loaded with that.

I did not know that, but now I do.

 

[Marc1776]

Got it; I guess if no joy from Freedom I’m resigned to having 720 rounds of unusable ammo. Maybe I’ll find a Reloader that can pull the projectiles, re-fit the brass (they’re unfired) change out the primers and reload it for me.

Is there anyone in the Houston, TX area that would take this on, and I’d reimburse you for your time/labor, primers and powder?

 

[Big Phish]

If i seen that brass was SSA i wouldn’t touch it with a 10 ft pole. That is some shit assed brass in any caliber.

 

[Marc1776]

Oh? Known problems?

 

[Marc1776]

Freedom wrote this afternoon and asked for details, which I provided. Found the order confirmation and number in my email and answered all their questions.
While doing that I realized how many thousands of $I spent at Freedom on .45, 5.56, .308, 30-30, and .380 (a lot).
I’ll keep y’all apprised of the outcome.

 

[357Max]

Oh? Known problems?

I shot One box of SSA 115gr 6.8SPC out of a spec 2 chamber. All new, not reman.
The brass is shit. Entire box looked like this.

 

[Marc1776]

 

[Ape_Factory]

I had blown primers with Freedom in 300 Blackout (supers) during COVID. I did ask for replacement rounds at the time and they obliged. The new stuff was problem free but I decided not to go back to them.

 

[Holliday]

Freedom isn’t free…..

 

[357Max]

I did buy this and keep it in climate controlled environment (the safe is inside the house with dessicant packets) and should last longer.

Your post & specifically the line I quoted got me thinking.
Did you shoot any of this ammo when you first bought it??? Or did it sit a few years.

The reason I ask. I see a lot of discussion about powder temp sensitivity & very little about aging sensitivity.
Freedom Munitions are most likely not using canister grade powder. That said I'd bet there are a lot of different grade options for the powder they buy & Federal might know a thing or Two.

My own examples start with FGMM 168. I've got older White box FGMM 168 that is 100fps faster than the newer Brown box. I bought a case of the White box from a guy so I have no speed data from when it was fresh. I dought Federal down loaded the 168 by 100fps & suspect this is from aging or powder drying??

In the 2021 thread linked below I bought this Geco 168 match ammo and tested it when I first bought it.
The Geco was 2580ish from an 18" Proof barrel when new in 2021, about 15fps faster than fresh FGMM at the time.
Now from a 16" AR it's over 2700, the high from 5 rounds was 2780. The FGMM was 2430 so it went from 15fps faster to 350fps faster in 4 years.
That ammo has been in a climate controlled environment since I bought it.
Geco is now unsafe. No popped primers, but wicked swipes. Only ran 5 rounds.

New Geco 7.62 x 51 168 BTHP Match + new brass head stamp AMTC

Just got a case of Geco 7.62 x 51 168 HPBT match & the Head Stamp is AMTC My google fue has found examples of 5.56 (in 2020), but this is the first I've ever seen AMTC on 7.62 I presume it could be short for Ammotec? Geco, Ruag, Norma, & RWS are all under the same umbrella. This brass may be...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Aftermath]

I use to work just down the street from Freedom in Lewiston. One of their employees would eat his lunch in the shade of my office. He had some stories!!!

They make the LAX stuff. FYI