- Thread starter Shibumi
- Start date
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
Could it be a knife?
http://thewarriormindset.com/
Or a book?
http://www.amazon.com/Warrior-Mindset-Dr-Michael-Asken/dp/0964920557
Or a term of art?
http://www.usmc.mil/unit/2ndmardiv/2ndma...iorMindset.aspx
Or a training term?
http://www.pmatc.com/warriors-mindset
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shibumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can anybody pass on the definition of this term?</div></div>Phil, Yeah, I think I'll pass on it.
Could it be a knife?
http://thewarriormindset.com/
Or a book?
http://www.amazon.com/Warrior-Mindset-Dr-Michael-Asken/dp/0964920557
Or a term of art?
http://www.usmc.mil/unit/2ndmardiv/2ndma...iorMindset.aspx
Or a training term?
http://www.pmatc.com/warriors-mindset
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shibumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can anybody pass on the definition of this term?</div></div>Phil, Yeah, I think I'll pass on it.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
http://www.warriorsciencegroup.com/warrior-mindset/
Read the book, take the test.
http://www.warriorsciencegroup.com/warrior-mindset/
Read the book, take the test.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
why does every halfcocked uncle sugar puppet recruiter try to make killin out to be some mystical ninja wizardry?
why does every halfcocked uncle sugar puppet recruiter try to make killin out to be some mystical ninja wizardry?
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
For context, this was an info grab for a lesson plan on Mindset.
Amazingly enough, this is something that is rarely discussed in training, and is a vital component to the decision of using deadly force.
Hardware without proper software is tupperware. Fine for amateurs, but does not hold up to the heat.
Thanks to all for the info!
For context, this was an info grab for a lesson plan on Mindset.
Amazingly enough, this is something that is rarely discussed in training, and is a vital component to the decision of using deadly force.
Hardware without proper software is tupperware. Fine for amateurs, but does not hold up to the heat.
Thanks to all for the info!
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
I think you might betalking about Combat Mindset. Color Coded Theory (Green, Amber, Red, Black)
If you want some refrences try "On Killing" "On Combat" Both are good refrences on the Physcological Preparation and willingnessto kill.
I think you might betalking about Combat Mindset. Color Coded Theory (Green, Amber, Red, Black)
If you want some refrences try "On Killing" "On Combat" Both are good refrences on the Physcological Preparation and willingnessto kill.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shibumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doing a little research here, and do not have info handy. I believe this concept was attributed to Col. Grossman. Can anybody pass on the definition of this term?
Thanks,
Phil </div></div>
I don't think so.
The idea of the warrior mindset had floated around the military long long long before Grossman (who btw is one out standing speaker).
He might have written a definition or tried to beter define it but he is not its creater.
I have his book floating around somewhere which isn't much help to you.
If you are looking for a good description of the warrior mindset you might look at Samuri philisofical beliefs in relation to combat.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shibumi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doing a little research here, and do not have info handy. I believe this concept was attributed to Col. Grossman. Can anybody pass on the definition of this term?
Thanks,
Phil </div></div>
I don't think so.
The idea of the warrior mindset had floated around the military long long long before Grossman (who btw is one out standing speaker).
He might have written a definition or tried to beter define it but he is not its creater.
I have his book floating around somewhere which isn't much help to you.
If you are looking for a good description of the warrior mindset you might look at Samuri philisofical beliefs in relation to combat.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
[/quote]If you are looking for a good description of the warrior mindset you might look at Samuri philisofical beliefs in relation to combat. [/quote]
For Samurai philosophy You could always try Book of Five Rings (Go Rin no Sho), Sword and the Mind, Hagakure, or "The unfettered Mind" But for sure its not found in a book and It takes a lifetime to develop.
[/quote]If you are looking for a good description of the warrior mindset you might look at Samuri philisofical beliefs in relation to combat. [/quote]
For Samurai philosophy You could always try Book of Five Rings (Go Rin no Sho), Sword and the Mind, Hagakure, or "The unfettered Mind" But for sure its not found in a book and It takes a lifetime to develop.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
confuse-us say, smells like warrior spirit.
confuse-us say, smells like warrior spirit.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
I'm a Marine Corps Veteran of Combat, S/E Asia, 1966 & 1967.
I received Basic, Infantry, and Specialist training, along with considerable unit training prior to deployment. Unlike a lot of Viet Vets, I deployed with a reinforced (11th) Bn of 2600+ Marine Corps Engineers, one of two in 'Nam, we had the Northern region responsibility (I Corps).
Personally, I don't believe training truly prepares the individual combattant for the stresses and rigors of combat. You can read about it, discuss it, run exercises, et al., and it can only bring the individual so far. It's way not far enough.
It's not until that first round near miss goes by, and the stark realization sinks in, "Hey Man, they really do mean to kill me, and there's some real chance they could succeed!", that the ape-brain clicks in, the teeth come bare, and the will to wreak mayhem, lethality, and overkill actually matures.
It is a sea change, and it marks the watershed. The individual will never be the same. In many ways, it's anything but a personal improvement. Some Veterans spend a subsequent lifetime seeking something that does not exist: their prior mental state. Others acknowledge the alteration, and labor to construct an existence which accomodates their new capabilities to a non-lethal environment, no simple task. There are Veterans, and there are others. One does not become the former without passage within the gauntlet.
Prepare all you want, there's a real and totally unique meaning to the term 'Veteran'.
Greg
I'm a Marine Corps Veteran of Combat, S/E Asia, 1966 & 1967.
I received Basic, Infantry, and Specialist training, along with considerable unit training prior to deployment. Unlike a lot of Viet Vets, I deployed with a reinforced (11th) Bn of 2600+ Marine Corps Engineers, one of two in 'Nam, we had the Northern region responsibility (I Corps).
Personally, I don't believe training truly prepares the individual combattant for the stresses and rigors of combat. You can read about it, discuss it, run exercises, et al., and it can only bring the individual so far. It's way not far enough.
It's not until that first round near miss goes by, and the stark realization sinks in, "Hey Man, they really do mean to kill me, and there's some real chance they could succeed!", that the ape-brain clicks in, the teeth come bare, and the will to wreak mayhem, lethality, and overkill actually matures.
It is a sea change, and it marks the watershed. The individual will never be the same. In many ways, it's anything but a personal improvement. Some Veterans spend a subsequent lifetime seeking something that does not exist: their prior mental state. Others acknowledge the alteration, and labor to construct an existence which accomodates their new capabilities to a non-lethal environment, no simple task. There are Veterans, and there are others. One does not become the former without passage within the gauntlet.
Prepare all you want, there's a real and totally unique meaning to the term 'Veteran'.
Greg
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
Greg, you are so right. No matter how hard one trains, until one is actually in that place trying to actively duck enough bullets to actually kill someone else, then do it again and again, he isn't a Warrior.
After the first time, what happens next is key to the result. Some of the meekest most humble people I ever met, were the truest definition of a warrior. it doesn't take swagger, it doesn't require bravado. it is something found way deep inside.
I recognize that one should train hard, and in detail, that's what gets you home, but the actual warrior spirit is distilled in combat, no place else.
From our time in the field, I have met a lot of people who went to that land, but only a fraction ever dealt in actual intense face to face closure with the enemy. That is where the steel gets it's edge.
Greg, you are so right. No matter how hard one trains, until one is actually in that place trying to actively duck enough bullets to actually kill someone else, then do it again and again, he isn't a Warrior.
After the first time, what happens next is key to the result. Some of the meekest most humble people I ever met, were the truest definition of a warrior. it doesn't take swagger, it doesn't require bravado. it is something found way deep inside.
I recognize that one should train hard, and in detail, that's what gets you home, but the actual warrior spirit is distilled in combat, no place else.
From our time in the field, I have met a lot of people who went to that land, but only a fraction ever dealt in actual intense face to face closure with the enemy. That is where the steel gets it's edge.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
The steel gets its edge, and in time the edge acquires nicks and chips.
In my own instance, what happened next was not a calm series of options. My choices were nil. Do and do again, or don't, and face courts martial, disgrace, or even death. Warriors are not free agents for the most part, but bound by honor, regulations, and conscience.
For me, the option did not present itself until after I had completed my tour and returned stateside. I could then choose whether or not to re-enlist, with the relative certainty of at least another tour in 'Nam.
I chose to complete my term of enlistment (two years in total as a draftee) and return to civilian life. I felt, and feel, no dishonor at my choice. I did what was required, and opted to leave it at that.
On reflection, a lot of reflection, I have never doubted or regretted that choice.
For me, there is nothing of the chivalry or nobility of combat. It is a necessary evil; no more, no less. I gave up something on that tableau. I can miss it or not miss it, that's my choice to make. I choose not to, but for very practical reasons. Missing it would initiate a sequence for which I have no need. Better left as is.
I will tell others simply that I have neither the ability nor the right to tell them what to do, what to think. I have taken my path and found my equilibrium. Both are unique.
Greg
The steel gets its edge, and in time the edge acquires nicks and chips.
In my own instance, what happened next was not a calm series of options. My choices were nil. Do and do again, or don't, and face courts martial, disgrace, or even death. Warriors are not free agents for the most part, but bound by honor, regulations, and conscience.
For me, the option did not present itself until after I had completed my tour and returned stateside. I could then choose whether or not to re-enlist, with the relative certainty of at least another tour in 'Nam.
I chose to complete my term of enlistment (two years in total as a draftee) and return to civilian life. I felt, and feel, no dishonor at my choice. I did what was required, and opted to leave it at that.
On reflection, a lot of reflection, I have never doubted or regretted that choice.
For me, there is nothing of the chivalry or nobility of combat. It is a necessary evil; no more, no less. I gave up something on that tableau. I can miss it or not miss it, that's my choice to make. I choose not to, but for very practical reasons. Missing it would initiate a sequence for which I have no need. Better left as is.
I will tell others simply that I have neither the ability nor the right to tell them what to do, what to think. I have taken my path and found my equilibrium. Both are unique.
Greg
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The steel gets its edge, and in time the edge acquires nicks and chips.
In my own instance, what happened next was not a calm series of options. My choices were nil. Do and do again, or don't, and face courts martial, disgrace, or even death. Warriors are not free agents for the most part, but bound by honor, regulations, and conscience.
For me, the option did not present itself until after I had completed my tour and returned stateside. I could then choose whether or to re-enlist, with the relative certainty of at least another tour in 'Nam.
I chose to complete my term of enlistment (two years in total as a draftee) and return to civilian life. I felt, and feel, no dishonor at my choice. I did what was required, and opted to leave it at that.
On reflection, a lot of reflection, I have never doubted or regretted that choice.
For me, there is nothing of the chivalry or nobility of combat. It is a necessary evil; no more, no less. I gave up something on that tableau. I can miss it or not miss it, that's my choice to make. I choose not to, but for very practical reasons. Missing it would initiate a sequence for which I have no need. Better left as is.
I will tell others simply that I have neither the ability nor the right to tell them what to do, what to think. I have taken my path and found my equilibrium. Both are unique.
Greg </div></div>
What you wrote struck a cord with me and my experiences.
The part you wrote about either missing it or not and having that choice. I haven't figured out or don't see it as a choice for me ie it is not for me to decide it is just the way it is. I miss it. I think it is the chaos, the excitement, the feeling of value and something more that I really can not pin down. Back here I feel worthless almost and rather frustrated. Its hard to define and something I do not understand. I think I use my hobbies as a distractor to try and draw my attention away from it.
A little background. I had PCS'd from my first unit prior to their deployment to Iraq. My very first "new" private to my platoon died while serving in Iraq. What stung the worst when I carried that casket and placed it on the caison was that I was not there to be by his side. I felt like an absolute piece of shit for not being deployed with them!
After I PCS'd from Fort Benning to Campbell and had finished my second company command I broke my shoulder and tore my meniscus (SP) 18 Sept.. The 506th (my Brigade) was deploying to Iraq and I had been told that I was going to be placed on rear detachment because of my broken shoulder and torn meniscus. I basicly stood on my CDR's desk screaming that there was no way that I was going to stay back and not deploy with them (I did not use such nice words and it did not go one way, but this was something I was not going to back down from). Needles to say I was in Iraq Nov! I came back stateside, did an AC/RC tour. Called up Infantry Branch and said "send me". Just reutrned in May and am in school.
I'm thinking Afghanistan will be nice since I have always loved mountains and it would be the first place that I will get to go with mountains.
I had always thought that combat and killing a man would define what and who I am. That it would be a life changing event, and in that aspect of combat I haven't found that to be true "for me". Maybe its my view of life and how things are?
I really enjoy your insites and those who have come before me. It helps me to reflect on my soldiers and myself!
Very Respectfully,
Stefan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The steel gets its edge, and in time the edge acquires nicks and chips.
In my own instance, what happened next was not a calm series of options. My choices were nil. Do and do again, or don't, and face courts martial, disgrace, or even death. Warriors are not free agents for the most part, but bound by honor, regulations, and conscience.
For me, the option did not present itself until after I had completed my tour and returned stateside. I could then choose whether or to re-enlist, with the relative certainty of at least another tour in 'Nam.
I chose to complete my term of enlistment (two years in total as a draftee) and return to civilian life. I felt, and feel, no dishonor at my choice. I did what was required, and opted to leave it at that.
On reflection, a lot of reflection, I have never doubted or regretted that choice.
For me, there is nothing of the chivalry or nobility of combat. It is a necessary evil; no more, no less. I gave up something on that tableau. I can miss it or not miss it, that's my choice to make. I choose not to, but for very practical reasons. Missing it would initiate a sequence for which I have no need. Better left as is.
I will tell others simply that I have neither the ability nor the right to tell them what to do, what to think. I have taken my path and found my equilibrium. Both are unique.
Greg </div></div>
What you wrote struck a cord with me and my experiences.
The part you wrote about either missing it or not and having that choice. I haven't figured out or don't see it as a choice for me ie it is not for me to decide it is just the way it is. I miss it. I think it is the chaos, the excitement, the feeling of value and something more that I really can not pin down. Back here I feel worthless almost and rather frustrated. Its hard to define and something I do not understand. I think I use my hobbies as a distractor to try and draw my attention away from it.
A little background. I had PCS'd from my first unit prior to their deployment to Iraq. My very first "new" private to my platoon died while serving in Iraq. What stung the worst when I carried that casket and placed it on the caison was that I was not there to be by his side. I felt like an absolute piece of shit for not being deployed with them!
After I PCS'd from Fort Benning to Campbell and had finished my second company command I broke my shoulder and tore my meniscus (SP) 18 Sept.. The 506th (my Brigade) was deploying to Iraq and I had been told that I was going to be placed on rear detachment because of my broken shoulder and torn meniscus. I basicly stood on my CDR's desk screaming that there was no way that I was going to stay back and not deploy with them (I did not use such nice words and it did not go one way, but this was something I was not going to back down from). Needles to say I was in Iraq Nov! I came back stateside, did an AC/RC tour. Called up Infantry Branch and said "send me". Just reutrned in May and am in school.
I'm thinking Afghanistan will be nice since I have always loved mountains and it would be the first place that I will get to go with mountains.
I had always thought that combat and killing a man would define what and who I am. That it would be a life changing event, and in that aspect of combat I haven't found that to be true "for me". Maybe its my view of life and how things are?
I really enjoy your insites and those who have come before me. It helps me to reflect on my soldiers and myself!
Very Respectfully,
Stefan
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
Survivor guilt is common, and is without reliable basis.
We have influences on others, and the best we can do is to deliberately formulate those influences toward doing the right thing. While we will endeavor to do what we say, sometimes circumstance denies us our intentions. When bad things happen to good people, we can take comfort and surcease that they chose their path and that outcomes are solely empowered by their individual choices. Once they make their choices, their destinies pass totally beyond our influence.
Combat defines little. Ethics and morals do not determine what we do; they determine how we cope with our actions' consequences. When people have difficulties in doing this, they almost always lose sight of circumstance. Feeling guilt is actually a form of megalomania. It assumes we have the power to influence circumstance. We do not, and insisting otherwise flies in the face of practical fact. Self determination is not an option for a soldier acting under orders. It is no more complex than that. In the absence of such liberty, guilt is a non-starter. This is no accident, and has become a societal norm that preserves the great multitude of service personnel from unnecessary self-recrimination.
As an NCO, I was exceedingly fortunate never to have lost a subordinate. Above all, that was my foremost chosen goal.
Combat is not a place for deep thinking. In its aftermath, the temptation to deep thinking becomes great, but needs to be resisted. This is the place where ouside professional guidance should be sought and trusted. Some things we were never meant to handled solo.
Greg
Survivor guilt is common, and is without reliable basis.
We have influences on others, and the best we can do is to deliberately formulate those influences toward doing the right thing. While we will endeavor to do what we say, sometimes circumstance denies us our intentions. When bad things happen to good people, we can take comfort and surcease that they chose their path and that outcomes are solely empowered by their individual choices. Once they make their choices, their destinies pass totally beyond our influence.
Combat defines little. Ethics and morals do not determine what we do; they determine how we cope with our actions' consequences. When people have difficulties in doing this, they almost always lose sight of circumstance. Feeling guilt is actually a form of megalomania. It assumes we have the power to influence circumstance. We do not, and insisting otherwise flies in the face of practical fact. Self determination is not an option for a soldier acting under orders. It is no more complex than that. In the absence of such liberty, guilt is a non-starter. This is no accident, and has become a societal norm that preserves the great multitude of service personnel from unnecessary self-recrimination.
As an NCO, I was exceedingly fortunate never to have lost a subordinate. Above all, that was my foremost chosen goal.
Combat is not a place for deep thinking. In its aftermath, the temptation to deep thinking becomes great, but needs to be resisted. This is the place where ouside professional guidance should be sought and trusted. Some things we were never meant to handled solo.
Greg
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
OK; I register the echoing silence, and hereby apologize for hijacking the thread.
OK; I register the echoing silence, and hereby apologize for hijacking the thread.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
I really enjoy reading the opinions and past experiences of warriors before me. One thing I think that some people are misunderstanding or not realizing about the Warrior Mindset is the preparing of one self to deal with the stresses that one might face in the event they are faced with a situation where death or serious bodily harm may present its self.
Warrior Mindset training deals with more than just exchanging lead with the enemy. As a EOD Tech walking down on a known IED the study of Warrior Mindset helps keep my personal levels in check. Being aware of the situation at hand and being able to put your self in the correct mode is by far the most useful aspect of the training. Sorta like Appropriate application of force. The last thing you want is someone over or under reacting to a situation at hand.
Now I understand the experiences of different individuals in the battle field differ greatly from conflict to coflict, fire fight to fire fight, and fighting hole to fighting hole in the same fire fight.
In my opinion I agree with all of the statements and experiences above, that no training can ever totally prepare a person or unit for combat and the realism that combat forces one to face. But the more training you are exposed to puts more tools in your tool box for success. One just has to realize which tool is the propper toolfor the job and to never become the prisoner of your own tool.
Now for an end to my rambling.
I really enjoy reading the opinions and past experiences of warriors before me. One thing I think that some people are misunderstanding or not realizing about the Warrior Mindset is the preparing of one self to deal with the stresses that one might face in the event they are faced with a situation where death or serious bodily harm may present its self.
Warrior Mindset training deals with more than just exchanging lead with the enemy. As a EOD Tech walking down on a known IED the study of Warrior Mindset helps keep my personal levels in check. Being aware of the situation at hand and being able to put your self in the correct mode is by far the most useful aspect of the training. Sorta like Appropriate application of force. The last thing you want is someone over or under reacting to a situation at hand.
Now I understand the experiences of different individuals in the battle field differ greatly from conflict to coflict, fire fight to fire fight, and fighting hole to fighting hole in the same fire fight.
In my opinion I agree with all of the statements and experiences above, that no training can ever totally prepare a person or unit for combat and the realism that combat forces one to face. But the more training you are exposed to puts more tools in your tool box for success. One just has to realize which tool is the propper toolfor the job and to never become the prisoner of your own tool.
Now for an end to my rambling.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Survivor guilt is common, and is without reliable basis.
We have influences on others, and the best we can do is to deliberately formulate those influences toward doing the right thing. While we will endeavor to do what we say, sometimes circumstance denies us our intentions. When bad things happen to good people, we can take comfort and surcease that they chose their path and that outcomes are solely empowered by their individual choices. Once they make their choices, their destinies pass totally beyond our influence.
Combat defines little. Ethics and morals do not determine what we do; they determine how we cope with our actions' consequences. When people have difficulties in doing this, they almost always lose sight of circumstance. Feeling guilt is actually a form of megalomania. It assumes we have the power to influence circumstance. We do not, and insisting otherwise flies in the face of practical fact. Self determination is not an option for a soldier acting under orders. It is no more complex than that. In the absence of such liberty, guilt is a non-starter. This is no accident, and has become a societal norm that preserves the great multitude of service personnel from unnecessary self-recrimination.
As an NCO, I was exceedingly fortunate never to have lost a subordinate. Above all, that was my foremost chosen goal.
Combat is not a place for deep thinking. In its aftermath, the temptation to deep thinking becomes great, but needs to be resisted. This is the place where ouside professional guidance should be sought and trusted. Some things we were never meant to handled solo.
Greg </div></div>
Great post!
I waited till my return to try and reflect on my losses. We kept things inhouse/internalized to ourselves when it came to that issue as best we could while deployed or at least I did. I encouraged conversation with my juniors to try and provide what comfort I could when not on a mission because I care about my soldiers and I think they needed a means to release some of the frustration or whatever.
As far as operations were concerned we AAR'd every op after we brought the guys down off of the rush.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Survivor guilt is common, and is without reliable basis.
We have influences on others, and the best we can do is to deliberately formulate those influences toward doing the right thing. While we will endeavor to do what we say, sometimes circumstance denies us our intentions. When bad things happen to good people, we can take comfort and surcease that they chose their path and that outcomes are solely empowered by their individual choices. Once they make their choices, their destinies pass totally beyond our influence.
Combat defines little. Ethics and morals do not determine what we do; they determine how we cope with our actions' consequences. When people have difficulties in doing this, they almost always lose sight of circumstance. Feeling guilt is actually a form of megalomania. It assumes we have the power to influence circumstance. We do not, and insisting otherwise flies in the face of practical fact. Self determination is not an option for a soldier acting under orders. It is no more complex than that. In the absence of such liberty, guilt is a non-starter. This is no accident, and has become a societal norm that preserves the great multitude of service personnel from unnecessary self-recrimination.
As an NCO, I was exceedingly fortunate never to have lost a subordinate. Above all, that was my foremost chosen goal.
Combat is not a place for deep thinking. In its aftermath, the temptation to deep thinking becomes great, but needs to be resisted. This is the place where ouside professional guidance should be sought and trusted. Some things we were never meant to handled solo.
Greg </div></div>
Great post!
I waited till my return to try and reflect on my losses. We kept things inhouse/internalized to ourselves when it came to that issue as best we could while deployed or at least I did. I encouraged conversation with my juniors to try and provide what comfort I could when not on a mission because I care about my soldiers and I think they needed a means to release some of the frustration or whatever.
As far as operations were concerned we AAR'd every op after we brought the guys down off of the rush.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
I think Greg nailed it. Your mindset is forever changed once that round cracks by your head, then it is changed once again by the decision you make on whether or not your going to pop up and shoot back or just lie there and hope you don't get hit.
I think Greg nailed it. Your mindset is forever changed once that round cracks by your head, then it is changed once again by the decision you make on whether or not your going to pop up and shoot back or just lie there and hope you don't get hit.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
The ethics and thought processes were dealt with in recruit training. Essentially, our DI's were trying to stress us to our limits and then beyond, so our tolerance threshold would extend. Their point was to give us a benchmark against which combat would be less stressful. Essentially, that's not really possible, but what they did helped considerably.
Greg
The ethics and thought processes were dealt with in recruit training. Essentially, our DI's were trying to stress us to our limits and then beyond, so our tolerance threshold would extend. Their point was to give us a benchmark against which combat would be less stressful. Essentially, that's not really possible, but what they did helped considerably.
Greg
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
A squad leader way back said one thing that rings true everytime im pressed. "Shit happens, Make a decision.. right or wrong, make a decision.."
but then he said "situations take time to develop, realize whats going on."
works every time so far
A squad leader way back said one thing that rings true everytime im pressed. "Shit happens, Make a decision.. right or wrong, make a decision.."
but then he said "situations take time to develop, realize whats going on."
works every time so far
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
Greg paints a very real picture of a true combat experience. Firefights are not the same each time and you yourself do not know how you are going to react until you're in one. You can train and train and train, and hypothesize what you might, and even should do, but you never know for sure until bullets start flying. I have seen some of the biggest shitbag privates be the best under fire and some of the most schooled-out NCO's flip out.
Being a Sniper in combat is the best job there is. You have the freedom to maneuver on the battlefield and are truly a combat force multiplier - if you know your job and understand your enemy. If you don't, then you become a liability to the overall mission. A warrior mindset takes a new definition in this position. The Sniper Team Leader has to be patient and willing to put yourself and his men into situations that require extreme discipline and patience. Again, I have been on missions that seemed to be such a waste of time but ended up being some of greatest successes because we had the discipline to follow through regardless, step by step.
Trying to develop aggression is a difficult thing to do. I believe that six months in a combat zone is the limit for combat soldiers, which are soldiers operating outside of the FOB or wherever they live there. Anything after 6 months, soldiers stop seeing civilians and become hardened to the 'hearts and minds' of the people. This is my belief from experience. This in turn aids the enemy by creating more support for an insurgent cause and makes the overall mission more difficult. You want your men to be aggressive when it comes to violence of action, but you don't want them to be needlessly violent. This is a very fine line and becomes more difficult as your unit loses personnel.
I'm also not sold on a color-coded mindset. I can understand that it is created around a “civil” society, but it doesn’t fit into my definition of a warrior. I have been in several ambushes and have engaged personnel when they had no idea that my team was in the area. Because of the way that my Scout Platoon operated in Iraq in 2003, I no longer see varying threat levels. Cormac McCarthy put it best in his book <span style="font-style: italic">The Road</span>: "If trouble comes when you least expect it, then maybe the thing to do is to always expect it." This also becomes a fine line but this post is directed towards the Military Sniper serving in a combat zone – not recreational shooters. There are no varying threat levels in combat. If you think it's possible, odds are the enemy does too. Some of you may personally know me and some of you here may have served with me. If that is the case, then you understand my training philosophies.
Phil, I think it is a good thing to train towards this and you already know that scenario based training is the best. It helps to negate some of the mental stumbling blocks that come with shooting another individual. You're doing the right thing in researching and getting other points of view.
Greg paints a very real picture of a true combat experience. Firefights are not the same each time and you yourself do not know how you are going to react until you're in one. You can train and train and train, and hypothesize what you might, and even should do, but you never know for sure until bullets start flying. I have seen some of the biggest shitbag privates be the best under fire and some of the most schooled-out NCO's flip out.
Being a Sniper in combat is the best job there is. You have the freedom to maneuver on the battlefield and are truly a combat force multiplier - if you know your job and understand your enemy. If you don't, then you become a liability to the overall mission. A warrior mindset takes a new definition in this position. The Sniper Team Leader has to be patient and willing to put yourself and his men into situations that require extreme discipline and patience. Again, I have been on missions that seemed to be such a waste of time but ended up being some of greatest successes because we had the discipline to follow through regardless, step by step.
Trying to develop aggression is a difficult thing to do. I believe that six months in a combat zone is the limit for combat soldiers, which are soldiers operating outside of the FOB or wherever they live there. Anything after 6 months, soldiers stop seeing civilians and become hardened to the 'hearts and minds' of the people. This is my belief from experience. This in turn aids the enemy by creating more support for an insurgent cause and makes the overall mission more difficult. You want your men to be aggressive when it comes to violence of action, but you don't want them to be needlessly violent. This is a very fine line and becomes more difficult as your unit loses personnel.
I'm also not sold on a color-coded mindset. I can understand that it is created around a “civil” society, but it doesn’t fit into my definition of a warrior. I have been in several ambushes and have engaged personnel when they had no idea that my team was in the area. Because of the way that my Scout Platoon operated in Iraq in 2003, I no longer see varying threat levels. Cormac McCarthy put it best in his book <span style="font-style: italic">The Road</span>: "If trouble comes when you least expect it, then maybe the thing to do is to always expect it." This also becomes a fine line but this post is directed towards the Military Sniper serving in a combat zone – not recreational shooters. There are no varying threat levels in combat. If you think it's possible, odds are the enemy does too. Some of you may personally know me and some of you here may have served with me. If that is the case, then you understand my training philosophies.
Phil, I think it is a good thing to train towards this and you already know that scenario based training is the best. It helps to negate some of the mental stumbling blocks that come with shooting another individual. You're doing the right thing in researching and getting other points of view.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
It is about the 6 month part that units began to really appreciate and understand their AO. At about the 8-10 month mark they start to burn out.
I think rotating units back to the same AO they occupied before (providing they had a positive rotation) would have benefited the mission as well as established relationships and establishing relationships.
And your right there is no cooky cutter scenario for firefights. I've had multiple scenarios with civilians being around and not releasing the boys (one shooter in the middle of about 30+ civilians) to releasing the boys when we could get some good shots in.
I had a soldier that talked big (he thought he was a big time gangster) but when it came down to it he was an absolute pussy and refused to get up on the gun. I had another guy freeze on the gun the first time he was engaged. And then I had kids on the complete other end of the spectrum. One would shoot because he was scared and it gave him comfort. He damn near emptied the ready box (200 rnds, M240B on port setting 3) on two guys who had an RPG. I remember when he killed the shit out of a curtain one time while in a fight. He was a little skitish but a good kid.
I think the thing that makes the person is that even in the face of adversity, fear, stress that you address those issues and drive on. Its that ability to overcome, clear your head and focus on the task/mission that is the difference between those who are and those who aren't.
It is about the 6 month part that units began to really appreciate and understand their AO. At about the 8-10 month mark they start to burn out.
I think rotating units back to the same AO they occupied before (providing they had a positive rotation) would have benefited the mission as well as established relationships and establishing relationships.
And your right there is no cooky cutter scenario for firefights. I've had multiple scenarios with civilians being around and not releasing the boys (one shooter in the middle of about 30+ civilians) to releasing the boys when we could get some good shots in.
I had a soldier that talked big (he thought he was a big time gangster) but when it came down to it he was an absolute pussy and refused to get up on the gun. I had another guy freeze on the gun the first time he was engaged. And then I had kids on the complete other end of the spectrum. One would shoot because he was scared and it gave him comfort. He damn near emptied the ready box (200 rnds, M240B on port setting 3) on two guys who had an RPG. I remember when he killed the shit out of a curtain one time while in a fight. He was a little skitish but a good kid.
I think the thing that makes the person is that even in the face of adversity, fear, stress that you address those issues and drive on. Its that ability to overcome, clear your head and focus on the task/mission that is the difference between those who are and those who aren't.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
I can see what you're saying about 8-10 months being the burn-out point. I think it all depends on operation tempo. I'm speaking from a 6-7 year gap and I know there are many, many things that have changed since I was there. I'm sure in many ways it's night and day. But Sniper Teams are a commodity that are utilized by Company Commanders, along with the Battalion Commander, every chance they get - and they should be because of what they can do. But this increase in operation tempo will generally begin to show sooner. This is all part of the position though and why you have those individuals earn their position first to demonstrate they can handle their obligations.
You're right on with everything else you said. It's funny the weird things you see happen in firefights or just mundane patrols. The test of being a good leader is combat.
I can see what you're saying about 8-10 months being the burn-out point. I think it all depends on operation tempo. I'm speaking from a 6-7 year gap and I know there are many, many things that have changed since I was there. I'm sure in many ways it's night and day. But Sniper Teams are a commodity that are utilized by Company Commanders, along with the Battalion Commander, every chance they get - and they should be because of what they can do. But this increase in operation tempo will generally begin to show sooner. This is all part of the position though and why you have those individuals earn their position first to demonstrate they can handle their obligations.
You're right on with everything else you said. It's funny the weird things you see happen in firefights or just mundane patrols. The test of being a good leader is combat.
Re: Warrior Mindset definition?
One of the frustrations that my soldiers had was that I was hunting it. Just going out the gate didn't work for me after a little bit ie the newness of being in Iraq wore off quickly. After that I needed a new rush and getting shot at seemed to work. There were a few on my team who were on board with me.
This is all hind sight, minus the frustration of a few of my soldiers (I'm not perfect).
The sad thing about sniper teams is that in this risk adverse environment many commanders are not willing to employ them in an effective mannor. You are correct that they have the capability to collect and report some amazing intell as well as to execute targets if utilized/employed correctly! It just comes down to risk, what you are willing to accept and how you can best mitigate it.
One of the frustrations that my soldiers had was that I was hunting it. Just going out the gate didn't work for me after a little bit ie the newness of being in Iraq wore off quickly. After that I needed a new rush and getting shot at seemed to work. There were a few on my team who were on board with me.
This is all hind sight, minus the frustration of a few of my soldiers (I'm not perfect).
The sad thing about sniper teams is that in this risk adverse environment many commanders are not willing to employ them in an effective mannor. You are correct that they have the capability to collect and report some amazing intell as well as to execute targets if utilized/employed correctly! It just comes down to risk, what you are willing to accept and how you can best mitigate it.
