Hasn’t trump said on many occasions now that he is going to primary Thomas Massie?the only thing that makes sense is maybe the blackmailers can be blackmailed.
perhaps one or more of the people on "the list" have secrets that are worse than the crimes they committed, and those crimes were committed by our own government. god knows our government has probably done some unspeakable things even we have not heard.
We may finally know who’s been to the island
- Thread starter nagantguy
- Start date
It's hard to accuse someone of being on a list that you publicly just said doesn't exist. It would have been a lot more effective, if true, to release some of the names - low-ball players, etc - to let the "important" people know that leverage is there, and will be used if necessary. Once the "The list doesn't exist and never has!" came out, it relegates any accusations against that now "nonexistent" list toothless.
I can't say "I never ordered a pizza!" and then blame you for eating that pizza later on.
I can't believe I'm reading this shit here.
There is no crime worst than crimes against children. I pray to God he returns and deals with all those involved to include those who turn a blind eye to this for any reason, no matter what it is.
This was/is pure evil and for anyone trying to white wash it for any reason tells me all I need to know about their real morals, an where their priority's lye. For if they will go along with this B/S or turned a blind eye to it, they will other things as well. What a cluster fuck but at least its nice to know who the fuck stands, were.
Everything you say here is true -- EXCEPT this part:
"just as it always is and has been."
Why say such things? ALWAYS has been this way? No, you chabadnik's tool. Has NOT always been this way. Has, however, been this way since six point star capture. Wrestle with that and you may understand this era completely. But know, it has NOT always been this way. Not even close.
It has been this way for at least the last 100+- years. There were certainly periods of time prior to that as well.
In the context I was speaking of was in terms of the maga movements leaders. It’s always been a con. At no point have they not been.
Man, you are going to fracture some lumbar vertebrae bending over limbo-style so far backward, to not be aware of the extent of the capture/compromise/blackmail.
The optimists in this country, who keep trying to see honorable motive/behavior in this era's clowns... well you optimists are going to cry rivers of tears when reality hits. I just hope you don't flip out and blame everyone but your own unwillingness to see.
No sir. You are exaggerating or mis-seeing things. It has not been "this way" for "over 100 years." That shows you as unserious when you say this. Okay, be unserious. I can make you look stupid either way if that's your aim.
Tell me how -- practically -- it has been going on since before Jeff-wee Epp-shtain was rolling. Identify prior similar webs of manipulation for us, would you please?
Kids today use that word "cope" and I think what you typed above is a "cope" for your realization that our current poe-tuss was a con-man since the 80s but you thought he was MAGA.
The era's corruption is toughest for anyone who (1) believed in MAGA; (2) spent time taking unky shug's pay for military measures; (3) spent time taking unky's pay for other fedgov work.
Why? Because that set of groups worked for the system. "Uh-oh, I was in on it too?" Well that is a tough row to hoe, isn't it?
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Yea, but to know about it & turn a blind eye for any reason is simply, criminal. I wonder if all those looking the other way would feel the same way if it was their child or it happened to them? If we don't protect or children, what the fuck are we good for???
My initial reply that you responded to had little to do with epstein in particular. It was more a broader point of political conmen in general. Of which they have essentially always been around and ran the show.
You are, of course, right. I'm just saying that we don't know what the stakes are at all. Maybe I AM being an apologist, and maybe getting too creative in possible theories, but that they're hiding it all 'cuz they're all soulless, evil, deamons doesn't track with me.
What if they have senior Chi Coms on film at the island and these are the ones holding back an invasion of Taiwan? What if they have senior Iranians who are feeding us all the goodies on the IRG because of the dirt they have? You can say the same about any of the scumbags running shit hole countries and our "allies" across the pond. Not hard to see how this may have been the biggest CIA trap in history, or that they weren't involved and it was all Mossad, but they have all the dirt now, and the cost of it was as astounding as it was morally repugnant. Having international leverage of that caliber, when none of it can ever be taken back, may outweigh justice, and not just in the minds of bad actors, but in the "good" ones too. I just don't believe it's to protect powerful people. I just don't believe it's for nothing. Maybe that something falls utterly short of the crimes, and the moral flexibility necessary to do it should be multiple death sentences, but maybe not. It's all speculation.
We have no idea what Epstein was into or who else (besides one prince and Maxwell) was involved or anything. Right now we only have what's public, and that shit, as horrible as it is, happens here everyday and it's happening now. That's not an excuse, it's a fact. I'm throwing this out there as another uninformed theory to explain it rather than Lucifer controls everyone's heart who is in government and they're hiding it all just because they're evil, which I do not believe.
There has to be a reason for all this, and too many people know about it and have seen the evidence to hide it forever. I'm just saying that it has to be something huge and scary for not one of them to take the hard line and the unequivocally moral position. What could be worth prostituting yourself for this? That's all I'm saying. Not excusing it or saying it could be worth it, but there has to be a bigger reason for those who said they were going to expose it to suddenly reverse course, and it has to be for more than self preservation.
Fresh2death: Ah, okay -- at certain levels, the underhandedness is eternal simply because of the kinds of people that seek public office. You probably know who they are from childhood, they ran for the school elections and took them seriously, they silently sought the approval of their peers but never got it. Some of these people were in "drama" programs if your school had them. Most of them psychologically unstable because of low self-esteem (many causes possible) and they seek "celebrity" status to feel good about themselves, maybe even powerful.
But to brush off the highly focused corruption of the past 25 years (and yes it is closely bracketed at 25) as eternal? That's like using your scope without adjusting the diopter and using the wrong parallax for the distance.
But to brush off the highly focused corruption of the past 25 years (and yes it is closely bracketed at 25) as eternal? That's like using your scope without adjusting the diopter and using the wrong parallax for the distance.
Unfortunately, what this blatantly demonstrates is not the US control of some other foreign entities but Israel's control of US entities. It's right there in your face.
@Fig -- "We have no idea what Epstein was into or who else (besides one prince and Maxwell) was involved or anything."
To be fair, "we have no idea" only on the specific details. There is an overwhelming amount of circumstance that should tell you the scope of the corruption. An example is the way all the countries of NATO or "first world" status who jumped onto the support UKR bandwagon, or who refuse to talk about the occupation of Palestine, or who don't care about global sex trafficking, or don't want you to see the details of what happened at paedo island.
I don't know if this kind of "noticing" comes easy for people, but it sure looks pretty clear to me how far the scope runs and for what issues.
To be fair, "we have no idea" only on the specific details. There is an overwhelming amount of circumstance that should tell you the scope of the corruption. An example is the way all the countries of NATO or "first world" status who jumped onto the support UKR bandwagon, or who refuse to talk about the occupation of Palestine, or who don't care about global sex trafficking, or don't want you to see the details of what happened at paedo island.
I don't know if this kind of "noticing" comes easy for people, but it sure looks pretty clear to me how far the scope runs and for what issues.
You are correct.
As to your second paragraph.. I think you read to much into what I said and drew unwarranted conclusions, and appear to continue to do so. I was only speaking of the conmen that rule us. And they always have.
Again too broad a brush. Those who succeeded in 1776 were not con men. Those who wrote the Articles of Confederation were not con men.
You might say that the con got a toehold in the Constitutional Convention, when they swapped out the Articles for the Constitution and conveniently left out what had to be added later in the Bill of Rights.
But I can say with confidence that moe saddy wasn't tweaking domestic politicians' noses back in 1789.
You might say that the con got a toehold in the Constitutional Convention, when they swapped out the Articles for the Constitution and conveniently left out what had to be added later in the Bill of Rights.
But I can say with confidence that moe saddy wasn't tweaking domestic politicians' noses back in 1789.
Power, public office or not. The person with the power doesn't always hold a public office.
Teachers/priests/parents/etc. subjugating children coercing them into lewd acts is an ancient practice and one that is not likely to go away.
I agree this doesn't mean we shouldn't try to rout it out and eliminate it with prejudice.
I don't know if any of it is really more prevalent today than it was 50, 100 or even 1000 years ago but we are more plugged in today and people aren't hiding their crazy as much as the used to.
I know women who were victims of sexual abuse by their own fathers 50 years ago and never talked about it until recent years or after their father died. There is a stigma of shame associated with coming forward that not everyone can overcome, more so in past years than present. I tend to believe it's always been there but the stories simply haven't been told.
What is more likely that Chicom/Iranian/Russian leader would stick his dick in US kid under Jew camera and US political elite would keep it quiet or that half of the US political elite would stick their dicks in US kids and fight tooth and nail for details not to be revealed. Really dude in your other posts you keep telling us how corrupt, despotic and ruthless those nations/leaders are and now you come up with theory that one or all of them would fuck on foreign enemy soil a child procured by an american jew and them unable to procure locally? Do you realize how stupid such a theory reads?
Which is the nation of vile, decadent, amoral and sex driven culture? Amero-english one with Europe following closely so to find the “clients” one only need to look in the “mirror”.
Issue at hand is that obviously people on the list are of such wide political spectrum that doing formal process would unhinge the US system and probably remove veil of lies over peoples eyes and just might cause a revolution - which is an obvious no no for everyone involved including non guilty gov officials.
Unfortunately Trump is a failed experiment and whats coming is nothing good, american people did their job, peacefully tried to bring about change and as it can be seen it aint working.
Which is the nation of vile, decadent, amoral and sex driven culture? Amero-english one with Europe following closely so to find the “clients” one only need to look in the “mirror”.
Issue at hand is that obviously people on the list are of such wide political spectrum that doing formal process would unhinge the US system and probably remove veil of lies over peoples eyes and just might cause a revolution - which is an obvious no no for everyone involved including non guilty gov officials.
Unfortunately Trump is a failed experiment and whats coming is nothing good, american people did their job, peacefully tried to bring about change and as it can be seen it aint working.
Yeah, you have a good bit of it here. I just suggest not over-extending things in a "black pill" fashion as if to say "always been this way can't fix it." When a person gets into that POV they are blackpilled and also, not seeing things clearly. It is about scope, timing, and historical significance right now.
Almost every time you find a bad actor anywhere, where adult/child interactions are concerned, the adult predator will have chosen that activity or line of work because it gives them access to kids. This does not mean that the Epp-shtayn Network is something that always has been with us, in the same scope, with the same timings, as we see today.
This has been an expensive (dollar wise) operation for the chabadniks. They have lots of money. But as people, they are cowards. And they will lose.
If we can't or will not protect children no matter who they are, then this whole thing needs to burn to the fucking ground.
That is MUCH more ridiculous. To say it's a scope of evil that large that no one will stand against it out of fear is absurd. If your theory is correct, there are millions of Americans who would consider it their entire reason for being, and the purpose of every ancestor's life stretching back to the beginning of time to stand against something like that. Sometimes you have to stand on the train tracks and try stop the locomotive with your hand. Raping children is one of those times, and I am not the only one who thinks so as evidenced by this thread.
That is not a realistic view of our government or of the human condition. It is a dark and jaundiced one that leaves no hope and no future. I don't and can't accept it, because I know our great capacity for good and selflesness as well as our capacity for evil.
That is not a realistic view of our government or of the human condition. It is a dark and jaundiced one that leaves no hope and no future. I don't and can't accept it, because I know our great capacity for good and selflesness as well as our capacity for evil.
So, there's never a conflict between morals and values? There's never any weighing of good and evil outcomes? Everything is white and black and never any conflict between them? Now who is being naïve? Not saying that those who are weighing things are always or even most of the time correct, but to say there isn't a conflict and a balance to be struck isn't realistic. Are we weighing what Epstein did against nuclear war, or some some politician evading justice? Even if you don't buy the reasoning I'm saying that there is some calculous at work, and it isn't protecting powerful people or so many would not keep their yaps shut.
The mass of people in the Federal Government who would have to be involved to make this simply about protecting the guilty would have to be monumental. It would have to be an evil shot through on a the biblical Sodom and Gamora level. Even then there was Lot. It is the height of fancy to posit there does not exist a Lot in all the Federal government.
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Fig enjoying that devil's advocate spot.
Ever hear of false dichotomies, Fig?
Ever hear of false dichotomies, Fig?
I think that is a part of it, but I don't think so many would be willing to go along with it if it was just to protect the agencies. There has to be more to it than that to willingly cover it up, and across administrations. There has to be something critically important, pertinent, and ongoing. When you consider what they manufactured out of whole cloth to try and keep Trump out of office, that they wouldn't use this, or at least leak it doesn't make any sense.
If there isn't, then you're right. It should all be burned to the ground with the people involved screaming in agony, and perhaps our country doesn't deserve to exist. That seems much more of a stretch than they are using it against our enemies. An appeal to patriotisms to keep people quiet seems more likely to me than an appeal to evil and power.
The world is full of sell outs, but there is also a greater number who won't for any reason. Most in gov would sell their mother for more power, that's been proven time & time again thru out our history. Plus you have a huge number who would take money to look the other way. I don't belong to either of those groups and never will, as I was brought up apparently much much differently. I don't view power & money as the be all like most, but I do highly value, all children's well being. If I have to die on that hill so be it,...
True. You could well be right. I have no idea. I'm not discounting anything. I know that we don't know. I'll reserve a real opinion until I understand motive. What happened is abominable. I would be more likely to believe we would use it if it was the Israelis and we weren't the progenitors of rape island. But, I have no idea. It could be as all those baying for blood assume it is. I hope not, but it's a possibility.
It is. Lots of bad people out there who justify evil to themselves. However, there are also good people who are willing to sacrifice everything for others knowing there's no glory and they will be persecuted for it and called villains. Obviously you count yourself as one, and so do I, so when I'm trying to consider something like this, where the evil is so big it seems a completely worthy hill to die on, it is better to think about if from what I know, rather than to project my prejudices on others and simply assign the worst possible motives to them. That's all I'm saying.
In the end you are most likely right, and the justification for this whole cover up will be found wanting (like a nuclear blast is warm). Doing it because they are all evil to their core doesn't track for me no matter how jaded I might be.
One thing is true. This has been going on since before people gave their children to Moloch.
"WE weren't the progenitors of paedo island."
I don't know about you, Mr Newton. I had nothing to do with it. I am not in your WE above. Why did you use the word "we" anyway?
I don't know about you, Mr Newton. I had nothing to do with it. I am not in your WE above. Why did you use the word "we" anyway?
Any bets as to when Ghislaine Maxwell either walks out out jail under her own power or is wheeled out on a gurney under a white sheet ?
We as in the USA/CIA, our country, abetting, condoning, allowing, etc. what Jeffry Epstein etal were doing. Obviously I don't mean the royal "we". Nor am I saying that "we" weren't involved. I have no idea. I hope we weren't, but to say I'd be shocked if we were would be inaccurate.
I don't believe he acted alone just because he was a sicko. We have names from the plane's manifest. We know some, and we know it goes to the top.
My point was only that if at some point we became aware, and then came into possession of all the material, and that some of it compromises our enemies and gives "us" control over them, the case could be made, and much more easily than if we were involved in or condoned the actual crimes... Does it weigh out? I don't know, but that doesn't mean I trust anything either. Just an admission of ignorance, and trying to find a reason that makes sense to me, because that everyone who has touched this is a demon in human flesh is fever dreams.
It's the 180 from Patel and Bongino that has me perplexed. What have they seen that turned them from a dog with a bone to complicit?
I don't believe he acted alone just because he was a sicko. We have names from the plane's manifest. We know some, and we know it goes to the top.
My point was only that if at some point we became aware, and then came into possession of all the material, and that some of it compromises our enemies and gives "us" control over them, the case could be made, and much more easily than if we were involved in or condoned the actual crimes... Does it weigh out? I don't know, but that doesn't mean I trust anything either. Just an admission of ignorance, and trying to find a reason that makes sense to me, because that everyone who has touched this is a demon in human flesh is fever dreams.
It's the 180 from Patel and Bongino that has me perplexed. What have they seen that turned them from a dog with a bone to complicit?
Doesn't it seem more accurate to say "they" unless you were part of the group who engineered such things? If you were part of it, well that is the tough row to hoe that I mentioned upthread.
Patel and Bongino? Why did you ever trust either of them? Because they mouthed the right words for you to go along? What are their histories, those two? Did you look into their histories or just assume that if the poe-tuss picks them, they are solid?
You have to pay attention. And you should, if you want to be honest, refrain from saying "us" and "we" in ways that suggest everyone bears the responsibility and blame. You won't be able to persuade me, ever, that I supported this crap. You won't be able to point to anything I did. And I can say the same for almost everyone I know. One exception is a friend from college who went straight into DC politics and became a true swamp creature. Him, you can blame all day.
Patel and Bongino? Why did you ever trust either of them? Because they mouthed the right words for you to go along? What are their histories, those two? Did you look into their histories or just assume that if the poe-tuss picks them, they are solid?
You have to pay attention. And you should, if you want to be honest, refrain from saying "us" and "we" in ways that suggest everyone bears the responsibility and blame. You won't be able to persuade me, ever, that I supported this crap. You won't be able to point to anything I did. And I can say the same for almost everyone I know. One exception is a friend from college who went straight into DC politics and became a true swamp creature. Him, you can blame all day.
Fair point. I'm not as optimistic as it may appear from this thread. We're speculating, and always taking the darkest and most selfish line is just as unwise as believing in unicorns and fairies.
This shit is as dark as it gets. I agree that there can be no excuse that measures up. However, I want to believe there is a justification for the cover up, even if I'm pretty certain it will fall short. When I see guys like Comie and Clapper, it's easier to believe they're just sociopathic fucks who will do anything for more power and their little political beliefs. In fact, this is proven.
You are wrong if you think I have any earthly heroes though. I don't. I do get disappointed in some people, but I know that none are good, no not one. So I'm not approaching from anything but an attempt at being analytical. There is SOME justification for this coverup, and I don't buy that this current administration is telling the truth and Epstein was just a millionaire pedo on his own.
Outside of that, Epstein himself never had a chance of seeing justice. That much is clear. You are never going to convince me he committed suicide.
I have one such similar “list”
He’s being manipulated
He’s being misled
It’s all a charade
It’s a chess move
It’s an opening gambit
He’s playing 4 - dimensional chess
He’s executing an interdimensional quantum transspatial backgammon move
He’s a businessman using negotiating tactics
Making outrageous plans publicly to force others for solutions
There’s a method to his madness
He’s “thinking outside the box”
It’s “control through chaos”
It’s Kissinger’s “Madman Strategy”
He’s being “stupid like a fox”
“Shock and awe”
He’s made deals his entire life
It’s the art of the deal
I’d like to see just a teeny bit of accountability
"There is SOME justification for this coverup, and I don't buy that this current administration is telling the truth and Epstein was just a millionaire pedo on his own."
Mr Newton, usually I would guess that you have never dealt with truly amoral people in your life -- or if you have dealt with them, their amorality went un-noticed.
Amoral people (which include garden variety narcissists) do not have rules of life, or needs to offer rationalizations for their behavior. They will offer excuses when pressured far enough, but their excuses will not be logical, factual explanations with rationales for the behavior. They will be a cloud of distracting diversions and lies.
To expect an honest disclosure from the poe-tuss or his admin on why they won't release the docs? Honestly, it makes me think I'm talking to a jr high student. Is this how far education and understanding has fallen in our country? You can't even make a guess as to why they won't release the docs?
There are two very obvious reasons. (1) Many people currently in power, leadership or otherwise, are identified there. The ability to control such people is what the chabadniks want. So there will be no release, in order to continue using the blackmail leverage. (2) As you already suggested, Mr Newton, it is possible that people in the present admin as well as their major financial supporters in hawley would and sly con valley are among the listed, and the list and relevant files would show the acts of fedgov employees facilitating the kompromat.
Mr Newton, usually I would guess that you have never dealt with truly amoral people in your life -- or if you have dealt with them, their amorality went un-noticed.
Amoral people (which include garden variety narcissists) do not have rules of life, or needs to offer rationalizations for their behavior. They will offer excuses when pressured far enough, but their excuses will not be logical, factual explanations with rationales for the behavior. They will be a cloud of distracting diversions and lies.
To expect an honest disclosure from the poe-tuss or his admin on why they won't release the docs? Honestly, it makes me think I'm talking to a jr high student. Is this how far education and understanding has fallen in our country? You can't even make a guess as to why they won't release the docs?
There are two very obvious reasons. (1) Many people currently in power, leadership or otherwise, are identified there. The ability to control such people is what the chabadniks want. So there will be no release, in order to continue using the blackmail leverage. (2) As you already suggested, Mr Newton, it is possible that people in the present admin as well as their major financial supporters in hawley would and sly con valley are among the listed, and the list and relevant files would show the acts of fedgov employees facilitating the kompromat.
If "we" did this, then I do feel responsible; not personally or directly of course, but as a member of the body politic, and one who has signed on the line at one point to follow the orders of the civilian government as well. So I don't see what you're getting at, because you seem to care, and more than if this had happened in Cambodia. I live, work, and raise my family in this country, and offer up my life to defend our ideals and our laws. So yea, I'm not an outside observer but part of it all, and take some level of ownership of the United States of America, as I am NOT a "citizen of the world".
Why do your comments read like you work for the Unit?
95% on point, 5% absolutely batshit dishonest, and the 5% is what matters.
You are either bad at humint, or bad at the english language. Which is it?
You are passive-aggressively trying to get me to share more of my background, Mr Newton. What would you like to know? Does it scare the Unit that people like me exist? That I am not captured by your kompromat?
My family goes back all the way, Mr Newton. All the way. Charles Carroll and Daniel Carroll. Question that, Unit boy.
95% on point, 5% absolutely batshit dishonest, and the 5% is what matters.
You are either bad at humint, or bad at the english language. Which is it?
You are passive-aggressively trying to get me to share more of my background, Mr Newton. What would you like to know? Does it scare the Unit that people like me exist? That I am not captured by your kompromat?
My family goes back all the way, Mr Newton. All the way. Charles Carroll and Daniel Carroll. Question that, Unit boy.
I think you're wrong from what little we do know to think that it's a conspiracy with such banal and sordid reasons at it's core. We know the CIA is involved from the early trial and Epstein's conviction. How active or passive that is we don't know. It requires the complicity of too many souls to be just about domestic politics and power.
Let's say I hope it's not so banal, and there are considerations we don't understand. It could be. You're right. It would greatly sadden me, not because of any of the personalities at the top involved, but because of all the people who touched this in one way or another not one of them did anything about it. That's what's hard for me to believe. Again, back to Lot. If that IS true, then the judgments of God are true and righteous altogether, and we don't deserve to survive if there is no one left who is good and will do the right thing.
She's going to get some high profile media attention gig where she's sold as a genius of some kind. The narcissism is well off the chain these days among the chabadniks. They really think themselves geniuses and are working hard to persuade non-thinkers of this.
Agreed. Rome dabbled in child slavery/trafficking/whatev and that's long enough for me to count as forever but it wasn't clandestine like the Epstein stuff.
In my mind it's like a disease that's been around forever and likely to be around forever but that doesn't mean don't "treat" it. Pbcillin is very effective when liberally, but judiciously, applied. It's not my intent to limit this to crimes against children, it's just the main vein of the thread.
Some people are fast to identify the 'can't win them all' type of thinking as "defeatist" but there is a difference between realizing you can't win them all and never going to win so why try.
