I have a new batch of Lapua .338 brass - I measured about 10 and found that they were between 330 and 333 grains. Does it make sense to sort the cases? How much accuracy will it add?
Thanks!
Thanks!
weighing brass - worth it or not?
- Thread starter paulnyc
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Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
i think that i would only do that if i were into competition shooting,might not even do it then.
i think that i would only do that if i were into competition shooting,might not even do it then.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
I weighed 700pcs of Lapua 308brass once to see what the spread was... I think I had something like 17 pieces that were outside of 1% of the rest and approx 65% were within a 0.5% window.
I believe this is one of the reasons for purchasing Lapua brass.
I wouldn't do that again. I think it's possible to cull as you shoot..
RJ
I weighed 700pcs of Lapua 308brass once to see what the spread was... I think I had something like 17 pieces that were outside of 1% of the rest and approx 65% were within a 0.5% window.
I believe this is one of the reasons for purchasing Lapua brass.
I wouldn't do that again. I think it's possible to cull as you shoot..
RJ
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
I do not wiegh brass! I watch how they shoot and pull the cases that are flyers! I then inspect those cases to see why and fix or toss them in the practice ammo bin.
Terry
I do not wiegh brass! I watch how they shoot and pull the cases that are flyers! I then inspect those cases to see why and fix or toss them in the practice ammo bin.
Terry
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
of all the manuals about weighing brass , numbers and stuff ,this is probably the only real way to have good brass +1 for that (and ive been doing the 1-1.5%rule)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: suasponte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not wiegh brass! I watch how they shoot and pull the cases that are flyers! I then inspect those cases to see why and fix or toss them in the practice ammo bin.
Terry </div></div>
of all the manuals about weighing brass , numbers and stuff ,this is probably the only real way to have good brass +1 for that (and ive been doing the 1-1.5%rule)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: suasponte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not wiegh brass! I watch how they shoot and pull the cases that are flyers! I then inspect those cases to see why and fix or toss them in the practice ammo bin.
Terry </div></div>
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
I weigh and sort my brass that I plan to shoot at 600 or 1000yrd. At long ranges I think it helps control vertical. Meaning heavier cases have less internal capacity and create high pressures. This leading to high ES/SD velocities. How ever I have shot some win brass loaded that the ES was as much as 65 and shot 1/2in. groups at 100yrds. Many will also tell you and I have seen it myself loads that shoot good at 100 my not shoot well at all when at long range. Then what shoots good at 600yrd will barley hold 1 1/2in group at 100yrd. If I'm not going to shoot past 200yrd and using lapua brass, pull it out of the box load it and go shoot.
I weigh and sort my brass that I plan to shoot at 600 or 1000yrd. At long ranges I think it helps control vertical. Meaning heavier cases have less internal capacity and create high pressures. This leading to high ES/SD velocities. How ever I have shot some win brass loaded that the ES was as much as 65 and shot 1/2in. groups at 100yrds. Many will also tell you and I have seen it myself loads that shoot good at 100 my not shoot well at all when at long range. Then what shoots good at 600yrd will barley hold 1 1/2in group at 100yrd. If I'm not going to shoot past 200yrd and using lapua brass, pull it out of the box load it and go shoot.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
If there are 3 major shooting groups practicing at the 100 yard range:
1) Deer hunters can live with 6 moa average, but aspire to 1.5 moa.
2) Varmint hunters can live with 1.5 moa average, but aspire to 0.5moa.
3) Bench rest competitors can live with .5 moa, but aspire to .1 moa.
Not even my best varmint rifles noticeably benefit from weighed and sorted cases. When the groups average .7 moa with the best at .45moa and the worst at 1 moa, break out the ammo with matched case weights, and the groups don't change.
There is just too much noise in the data for me to detect the weighed brass improvement.
But the benchrest guys are doing it.
If there are 3 major shooting groups practicing at the 100 yard range:
1) Deer hunters can live with 6 moa average, but aspire to 1.5 moa.
2) Varmint hunters can live with 1.5 moa average, but aspire to 0.5moa.
3) Bench rest competitors can live with .5 moa, but aspire to .1 moa.
Not even my best varmint rifles noticeably benefit from weighed and sorted cases. When the groups average .7 moa with the best at .45moa and the worst at 1 moa, break out the ammo with matched case weights, and the groups don't change.
There is just too much noise in the data for me to detect the weighed brass improvement.
But the benchrest guys are doing it.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
I seperate the match brass into light, medium and heavy batches. Just to keep things about even.
I seperate the match brass into light, medium and heavy batches. Just to keep things about even.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
I don't. When I load 308 and 338LM all I use is Lapua brass. I recently loaded 20 rounds and wanted to actually weigh each of the loaded cases and do a statistical analysis of the results.
I used an Acculab 123 laboratory digital scale. After all was said and done I discovered the average weight of a 338LM case, Fed215 primer,250SMK and 89.0 gr. of RL25 was 672.47grains. My standard deviation over the 20 cases was .987 grains. That's 0.146%.
Somehow, I doubt less than one grain is going to make a difference in a cartridge weighing 672 or so grains. They all shot less than 2 inch 5 shot groups at 300 yards with winds gusting to 15mph at 33 degrees F. Through my AIAWSM.
My question is what is the cut off when and if you weigh them?If you really want to bash your brains in-try doing that with 50BMG cases,bullets....
I don't. When I load 308 and 338LM all I use is Lapua brass. I recently loaded 20 rounds and wanted to actually weigh each of the loaded cases and do a statistical analysis of the results.
I used an Acculab 123 laboratory digital scale. After all was said and done I discovered the average weight of a 338LM case, Fed215 primer,250SMK and 89.0 gr. of RL25 was 672.47grains. My standard deviation over the 20 cases was .987 grains. That's 0.146%.
Somehow, I doubt less than one grain is going to make a difference in a cartridge weighing 672 or so grains. They all shot less than 2 inch 5 shot groups at 300 yards with winds gusting to 15mph at 33 degrees F. Through my AIAWSM.
My question is what is the cut off when and if you weigh them?If you really want to bash your brains in-try doing that with 50BMG cases,bullets....
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
Lt. Arclight,
I must say you done a fine job on your 20rnds if you are getting under 1gr with loaded ammo. I'm not as picky as some. I sort my brass into .9gr groups. It's like clark said above. It depends on what kind of shooting you are doing deer hunting, varmint hunting, F class, or bench rest. I have talked to some bench rest shooters that sort into .5gr groups.
Lt. Arclight,
I must say you done a fine job on your 20rnds if you are getting under 1gr with loaded ammo. I'm not as picky as some. I sort my brass into .9gr groups. It's like clark said above. It depends on what kind of shooting you are doing deer hunting, varmint hunting, F class, or bench rest. I have talked to some bench rest shooters that sort into .5gr groups.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
WOW
I will not be weighing mine!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't. When I load 308 and 338LM all I use is Lapua brass. I recently loaded 20 rounds and wanted to actually weigh each of the loaded cases and do a statistical analysis of the results.
I used an Acculab 123 laboratory digital scale. After all was said and done I discovered the average weight of a 338LM case, Fed215 primer,250SMK and 89.0 gr. of RL25 was 672.47grains. My standard deviation over the 20 cases was .987 grains. That's 0.146%.
Somehow, I doubt less than one grain is going to make a difference in a cartridge weighing 672 or so grains. They all shot less than 2 inch 5 shot groups at 300 yards with winds gusting to 15mph at 33 degrees F. Through my AIAWSM.
My question is what is the cut off when and if you weigh them?If you really want to bash your brains in-try doing that with 50BMG cases,bullets.... </div></div>
WOW
I will not be weighing mine!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't. When I load 308 and 338LM all I use is Lapua brass. I recently loaded 20 rounds and wanted to actually weigh each of the loaded cases and do a statistical analysis of the results.
I used an Acculab 123 laboratory digital scale. After all was said and done I discovered the average weight of a 338LM case, Fed215 primer,250SMK and 89.0 gr. of RL25 was 672.47grains. My standard deviation over the 20 cases was .987 grains. That's 0.146%.
Somehow, I doubt less than one grain is going to make a difference in a cartridge weighing 672 or so grains. They all shot less than 2 inch 5 shot groups at 300 yards with winds gusting to 15mph at 33 degrees F. Through my AIAWSM.
My question is what is the cut off when and if you weigh them?If you really want to bash your brains in-try doing that with 50BMG cases,bullets.... </div></div>
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
Until the wind stops kicking my ass, I'll focus most of my effort on that. When it's no longer the largest variable impacting my shots, I'll work on fine tuning other things like brass.
Until the wind stops kicking my ass, I'll focus most of my effort on that. When it's no longer the largest variable impacting my shots, I'll work on fine tuning other things like brass.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
If you have a rifle+shooter+cartrige that reliably shoots 0.3" 5-shot groups and smaller, then you might be able to see a marginal improvement by sorting brass by weight.
If you have a rifle+shooter+cartrige that reliably shoots 0.3" 5-shot groups and smaller, then you might be able to see a marginal improvement by sorting brass by weight.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
With the Remington .300 RUM brass that I use to make .338 Edge ammo. I get up to 10 grains of variation. At 1000 yards and beyond, this has an effect on verticle for sure.
Most however is within a 3 grain window and this is the ones that I use for long range stuff. All the others go into two groups. A heavey group and a light group.
These are being put aside for goat culls and will not be reloaded again.
With the Remington .300 RUM brass that I use to make .338 Edge ammo. I get up to 10 grains of variation. At 1000 yards and beyond, this has an effect on verticle for sure.
Most however is within a 3 grain window and this is the ones that I use for long range stuff. All the others go into two groups. A heavey group and a light group.
These are being put aside for goat culls and will not be reloaded again.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
Well as "ARCLIGHT" said I guess I'm bashing my brains out!!
I started weighing cases for the 50bmg (and C.C cases) so it carried over to my 308 brass. I look at it this way... It can't hurt. Do you need to, No not on smaller cases. It helps on the 50's though!!
Well as "ARCLIGHT" said I guess I'm bashing my brains out!!
I started weighing cases for the 50bmg (and C.C cases) so it carried over to my 308 brass. I look at it this way... It can't hurt. Do you need to, No not on smaller cases. It helps on the 50's though!!
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spending more time shooting than weighing brass will do more for your accuracy. Never weighed brass and don't intend to start. </div></div>
I guess my point should have been written in the contrapositive sense:
If you do not regularly shoot most of your groups smaller than 0.3" then weighing brass will not not reduce groups size.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spending more time shooting than weighing brass will do more for your accuracy. Never weighed brass and don't intend to start. </div></div>
I guess my point should have been written in the contrapositive sense:
If you do not regularly shoot most of your groups smaller than 0.3" then weighing brass will not not reduce groups size.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
Wasn't directed at you Mitch. Just the process of weighing in general. After shooting only factory ammo the past year and a half and getting sub 1/2 MOA out of it lets just say I am growing leary of some of these ultra anal processes that take up alot of the shooters time when he could be at the range.
Wasn't directed at you Mitch. Just the process of weighing in general. After shooting only factory ammo the past year and a half and getting sub 1/2 MOA out of it lets just say I am growing leary of some of these ultra anal processes that take up alot of the shooters time when he could be at the range.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
Weighing brass is pretty much a requirement.... if you are loading 6mm PPC for a zero tolerance chamber and trying to shoot in the .1s or better.
On the other hand, working up loads for a .338 RUM with no sorting and thrown charges of RL-25, the barrel when new was printing five shot sub 1/2" groups at 100 on a consistant basis. With a FACTORY 700 Sendero SF. And a brake. And a Kepplinger set trigger.
But velocity spreads start to show up as range increases as increased vertical and at that point charges need to be weighed, and the brass sorted just to segregate those that are really out of the norm. Five grain groupings works for me with that big a case. With a 273 gr case (if I remember right), that is plus or minus 2.5 grains which works out to effectively less than .25 difference in charge weight which isn't a lot when you are dumping 90+ grains of powder into the case.
Of course if I was shooting the thing in competition I might try to tighten up into anal-land but I have other rifles for that. As it is it used to hold 1 moa out to 1,000 with no problem (except recoil, it's a lighter rifle) and with a new barrel it should do at least as well again.
Weighing brass is pretty much a requirement.... if you are loading 6mm PPC for a zero tolerance chamber and trying to shoot in the .1s or better.
On the other hand, working up loads for a .338 RUM with no sorting and thrown charges of RL-25, the barrel when new was printing five shot sub 1/2" groups at 100 on a consistant basis. With a FACTORY 700 Sendero SF. And a brake. And a Kepplinger set trigger.
But velocity spreads start to show up as range increases as increased vertical and at that point charges need to be weighed, and the brass sorted just to segregate those that are really out of the norm. Five grain groupings works for me with that big a case. With a 273 gr case (if I remember right), that is plus or minus 2.5 grains which works out to effectively less than .25 difference in charge weight which isn't a lot when you are dumping 90+ grains of powder into the case.
Of course if I was shooting the thing in competition I might try to tighten up into anal-land but I have other rifles for that. As it is it used to hold 1 moa out to 1,000 with no problem (except recoil, it's a lighter rifle) and with a new barrel it should do at least as well again.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wasn't directed at you Mitch. </div></div>
I took no offense, but your post illuminated how my original objection should have been phrased, and I thank you for having raised your point.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wasn't directed at you Mitch. </div></div>
I took no offense, but your post illuminated how my original objection should have been phrased, and I thank you for having raised your point.
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
This has been discussed before, here and elsewhere.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1211755&gonew=1#UNREAD
http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3742893.15.html
This has been discussed before, here and elsewhere.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1211755&gonew=1#UNREAD
http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3742893.15.html
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
Is it worth it... I dont know but it gives me something to do at 3am on my days off while listening to Coast To Coast, Bah hahaha!
Is it worth it... I dont know but it gives me something to do at 3am on my days off while listening to Coast To Coast, Bah hahaha!
Re: weighing brass - worth it or not?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been discussed before, here and elsewhere.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1211755&gonew=1#UNREAD
http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3742893.15.html </div></div>
Your point being?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been discussed before, here and elsewhere.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1211755&gonew=1#UNREAD
http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3742893.15.html </div></div>
Your point being?
