Wells Fargo sues Gunwerks in Federal Court

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SmokyJoe

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This forum can be your worst enemy or best friend. There's some very intelligent points being brought up by some obviously very educated people on the subject. Rather than engaging legitimate questions we get the same rubber stamped answer of 'all is well, you'll find out later today.' It's not a very endearing response for the intelligent questions being posed; and in turn, elicit speculation about how Gunwerks is handling this debacle.
It looks like they are losing the opportunity to get out in front of this and make it look like a parade.
 

rth1800

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I met Aaron a couple of times and he did not inspire confidence but I have no dislike of him. Just not a guy I wanted to give my money to.
 

Yoteski

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I am an attorney and I would tell all of my employees to say NOTHING. It is a huge mistake for any of them to say anything about pending litigation. Don't do it.
What is your preferred blood type?








I keed I keed🤗
 

davsco

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gw is under no obligation to share their side of the story with us or anyone (other than the courts of course), nor provide periodic updates. perhaps they are being prudent and following counsel's advice and shutting up until they get their day in court. that said, IF i was in the process of ordering something from them, i'd prob wait and see how this plays out.
 

Triple BB

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I think its interesting to see stories involving the Wyoming Business Council. Our elected officials have wasted more money via this entity in the name of jobs than can be counted. If true, too bad for anyone who has a pending order with GW. Betting they won't see their money or their product when this is all said and done. Hopefully some criminal prosecution is forthcoming if the info reported by K2 is close to accurate...
 
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BadAccountant

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A logical move if GW didn't like WF business practices would've been to refinance. I'm sure a lot of suitors would've jumped at the chance lending to a "booming" business, charge 4-5% vs whatever abysmal treasuries are paying. 2.5-3M is not a big line of credit, an individual could handle that. WF probably would've helped them pump up their balance sheet to entice a suitor.

Of course if WF is correct and they are hemorrhaging cash and converting collateral no one would right mind would touch them. Experience tells me the latter is probably closer to the truth.
Agreed. Pumping up inventory is really easy by switching over to another accounting method, especially in a line of business where added value is really negotiable and any WIP rifles can be accounted for differently. If they wanted to beef up balance sheet figures, that's how I'd do it.
 
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CMP70306

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Hi,

FWIW, Fighting off Torrey Pines Logics' suit of Intellectual Property in the Ninth Circuit in California cannot be cheap....



Sincerely,
Theis
I came across that while searching for the Wells Fargo case, also interesting since according to Wells Fargo they hold a “Security Interest” in whatever patent is in the suit.

75F2D63A-2B90-4C10-997D-A86A36F96386.jpeg
 

Ravenworks

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I was quoting what I heard, and shared it. Are you really this dumb? You sound like a tool trying to grammar check a forum post.
I don't accept your post as anything but gossip per your own words.
Because when you use words in your post such as we and us in the same sentence you are injecting yourself
That is not what I would call "what you heard"
If you are confused see post #147
 
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Milo 2.5

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There's some very intelligent points being brought up by some obviously very educated people on the subject. Rather than engaging legitimate questions we get the same rubber stamped answer of 'all is well, you'll find out later today.' It's not a very endearing response for the intelligent questions being posed; and in turn, elicit speculation about how Gunwerks is handling this debacle.
I doubt anyone authorized by GW to give any information is actually in this thread.
 

levi8599

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davsco

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the settlement is gw prob just agreeing to pay wf some amount of $$ to close out their loans within some period of time. question is, does gw have the cash to do this (ie did they get other financing - debt or equity) or do they have to find another lender/investor to finance the settlement payment?
 

Dthomas3523

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thread was like a bunch of school girls bickering in here with everyone’s assumptions
And that article does zero to put any assumptions aside. Literally says nothing about what was agreed upon.
 

sandwarrior

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Yikes??? The suit is over Pines claiming they gave Babcock $1000 for the patent rights?? FUCKIN' REALLY???!!! That isn't even the price of ONE scope. Bullshit!! This sounds like shitheads trying to cash in.

I get the whole, "You borrowed it, you pay it back." thing. But, where WF in the past has been nailed and nailed again on predatory lending charges and corrupt collection charges I'm not willing at all to be on their side. As I said in my last post, FUCK THEM and Fuck THEM with a big stick is the best policy to deal with them.

Nobody seems to shed a tear, who supports WF, about how they took HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of your taxpayer dollars. That ain't water under the bridge for me. They tried fucking me and I had to go back swinging with a club, (Minnesota AG) to get them to pay the fuck attention. No, they weren't happy. And when the loan officer decided he'd have a word with me. I shot back, and when their Senior loan specialist heard what I said, she shut him down! I had three days to call that deal off and it would have looked pretty bad for them. I was tired of the fight and decided what they gave me wasn't what I had but it was doable.

I also noticed in the settlement, that WF put out in public a shitload of stuff they weren't privy to. Just to make them look better in this deal. Yeah, it sounds like good ol' WF pushing the envelope seeing what they can get.

FWIW, the location and property overlooking the Shoshone river sure sounds like prime real estate...
 
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toader

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Lots of speculation going on here. FWIW, the Wyoming Business Council and the City of Cody have done everything possible to support the company. The real losers here are the taxpayers and the employees. No surprise to see who made the OP.
Was wondering if someone seen who was the original poster of the article.........
 

Dthomas3523

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Yikes??? The suit is over Pines claiming they gave Babcock $1000 for the patent rights?? FUCKIN' REALLY???!!! That isn't even the price of ONE scope. Bullshit!! This sounds like shitheads trying to cash in.

I get the whole, "You borrowed it, you pay it back." thing. But, where WF in the past has been nailed and nailed again on predatory lending charges and corrupt collection charges I'm not willing at all to be on their side. As I said in my last post, FUCK THEM and Fuck THEM with a big stick is the best policy to deal with them.

Nobody seems to shed a tear, who supports WF, about how they took HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of your taxpayer dollars. That ain't water under the bridge for me. They tried fucking me and I had to go back swinging with a club, (Minnesota AG) to get them to pay the fuck attention. No, they weren't happy. And when the loan officer decided he'd have a word with me. I shot back, and when their Senior loan specialist heard what I said, she shut him down! I had three days to call that deal off and it would have looked pretty bad for them. I was tired of the fight and decided what they gave me wasn't what I had but it was doable.

I also noticed in the settlement, that WF put out in public a shitload of stuff they weren't privy to. Just to make them look better in this deal. Yeah, it sounds like good ol' WF pushing the envelope seeing what they can get.

FWIW, the location and property overlooking the Shoshone river sure sounds like prime real estate...
Likely was a royalty agreement along with that $1k.

Torrey Pines ain’t gonna waste their time over something invaluable.
 
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landonm

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Here's an official statement from our CEO, Aaron Davidson. Thanks to the few on here who have kept an open mind. You can't always believe everything you read in the news.

"The reports of Gunwerks’ demise are completely false. In fact, we’re crushing it! So far, 2020 has set records for sales performance and profitability, and it only gets better from here!

This week’s report of Wells Fargo filing a lawsuit has gotten a lot of attention. The bottom line is, the litigation has been settled, the entirety of our Wells Fargo operating loan has been paid off, and it is business as usual for Gunwerks.

The Wells Fargo narrative of Gunwerks’ financial distress was untrue. The dispute was never about Gunwerks’ financial condition or late payments, but about a difference of opinion on asset valuation. Within days of filing the suit, it has been settled and the case will be dismissed immediately."

Many more details. You can read the rest here:
https://www.gunwerks.com/blog/press-releases-5/post/official-statement-from-gunwerks-ceo-regarding-wells-fargo-litigation-225
 

John Burns

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Official Statement From Gunwerks CEO Regarding Wells Fargo Litigation


Cody, WY – May 22, 2020
The reports of Gunwerks’ demise are completely false. In fact, we’re crushing it! So far, 2020 has set records for sales performance and profitability, and it only gets better from here!
This week’s report of Wells Fargo filing a lawsuit has gotten a lot of attention. The bottom line is, the litigation has been settled, the entirety of our Wells Fargo operating loan has been paid off, and it is business as usual for Gunwerks.
The Wells Fargo narrative of Gunwerks’ financial distress was untrue. The dispute was never about Gunwerks’ financial condition or late payments, but about a difference of opinion on asset valuation. Within days of filing the suit, it has been settled and the case will be dismissed immediately.
Most of the stories circulating around the social media landscape are just wrong! Here are two good examples: In Wells Fargo’s narrative complaint filed in federal district court, they assert that Gunwerks was delinquent on sales tax payments. This is not true now and has never been true (Check here for a list of current delinquents in WY). They also allege that Gunwerks is late paying vendors. Again, this is untrue. We pride ourselves in dealing fairly with our vendors.
Unfortunately, despite our numerous good faith attempts to resolve the issues with Wells Fargo, the bank chose to file a lawsuit, which has now been settled. Fortunately, we had the resources to pay off the credit line within two business days of Wells Fargo filing suit. Our customers have really supported us this year with record sales. We’re on track to have our best performing year on record.
In 2020 Gunwerks will be announcing several new and innovative products that have been in development the past several years. Keep an eye out for an entirely new, next-gen rifle system engineered from the ground up, at least three more Skunkwerks projects, and new optics products and ballistic solutions in the Revic lineup.
The damage to Gunwerks’ reputation from Wells Fargo’s lawsuit will take quite a while to overcome, but with our team and a foundation of innovation and product quality, we see this as a minor incident. We’ve never been more excited about our business!
Sincerely,
Aaron Davidson, CEO Gunwerks
 
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slowlearner

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You mean a bank would change how it values products, assets, and liquidity? Say it ain’t so! Especially WF that has been super gun friendly. Does this means GW is perfect and everything is exactly what it should be? Absolutely not, I’m sure something can be found somewhere. Could be in the patents, previous issues.

Glad to see it is resolved either way.
 

sandwarrior

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You mean a bank would change how it values products, assets, and liquidity? Say it ain’t so! Especially WF that has been super gun friendly. Does this means GW is perfect and everything is exactly what it should be? Absolutely not, I’m sure something can be found somewhere. Could be in the patents, previous issues.

Glad to see it is resolved either way.
Of all the shit in thread, I don't think WF is not gun-friendly. I just think they SEE a lot more cash in what Gunwerks has and WHERE they have it.
 

slowlearner

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Death Valley area...it is hot.
Of all the shit in thread, I don't think WF is not gun-friendly. I just think they SEE a lot more cash in what Gunwerks has and WHERE they have it.
Maybe. But changing how they account for inventory and assets seems mildly shady at best. Granted, banks must protect themselves from folks, and we still really only have snippets from either side.
 

Threadcutter308

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I wish GW all success. However, I wonder about possible slander/libel on the part of WF. If the case is strong enough, then why not countersue ? Yes, I know that litigation is terribly expensive/risky and time consuming, but there seems to be no mention of that. Rather, GW seems to be skirting around that topic. Besides, WF, as big of pricks as they are, aren't usually allowed by their legal department to wantonly and recklessly slander anyone, particularly their customers :unsure:

Besides, if WF made a statement in writing/as part of a lawsuit that GW was delinquent on tax payments, it would be terribly reckless and outright negligent for them to make that statement if it weren't true. I'm in no way defending WF, in fact, I don't like them. But, I have to believe they would have extensively vetted that information prior to making that claim in a court of law.
 
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m1match

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Well, I hope that clears things up. I guess we have to remember that 1) lawyers make shit up when they write lawsuits in order to make sure they didn't forget anything and there aren't any consequences from making stuff up in a lawsuit since they are all just "allegations", and 2) many (but not all) reporters are not the sharpest tools in the shed and will write the story they want to write without checking facts. The allegation that they were delinquent on sales taxes was the most damaging thing because when it's true is almost always a clear sign of serious financial distress. Since that allegation wasn't true (I'm believing the statement from the Gunwerks CEO more than the other stuff), the rest of it is lawyers and squabbling.
 

Cascade Hemi

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I'm reading the suit and don't really care about the article. Wells Fargo's claims are subject to perjury, so from their numbers, it seems there was a failure to meet expectations of the loan.
So, answer me this, if this would go to civil court, there's no chance a judge rules in favor of Wells Fargo?
I would just like to point out how utterly naive it is to think every claim in a lawsuit can or will be substantiated. One of the various lawyers in this thread can correct me but I don't think legal claims in a suit are subject to defamation either. There are endless examples of frivolous lawsuits and to assume WF is somehow above that sort of behavior is kind of funny. Wells Fargo isn't exactly known for being a paragon of virtue.
 

CMP70306

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Here is another article on the subject with more details.
 

VDVSNIPER

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So many doubters for GW, I wish them the very best and know they will pull through (waiting for a br3000 or something like that from them soon since the br2500 is now a few years old). Lots of nice stuff they have that I can’t afford. They don’t cater to people who debate if an arken scope is right for them, and then take months to save for it. They cater to a whole different client. These clients don’t just buy 1 gun and done, but keep buying their guns every year. Mr.Davidson made a good business and I wish him all the luck. He is doing what we all wish we could do. Unfortunately lots of bitter or jealous people here.
 

Jmcmath

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So many doubters for GW, I wish them the very best and know they will pull through (waiting for a br3000 or something like that from them soon since the br2500 is now a few years old). Lots of nice stuff they have that I can’t afford. They don’t cater to people who debate if an arken scope is right for them, and then take months to save for it. They cater to a whole different client. These clients don’t just buy 1 gun and done, but keep buying their guns every year. Mr.Davidson made a good business and I wish him all the luck. He is doing what we all wish we could do. Unfortunately lots of bitter or jealous people here.
people seem to think expensive hunting rifles cant sell, yet high end hunting rifles have been some of the most expensive rifles in the world for the last century.

10k is nothing in the high end hunting world. People spend more than that on engraving alone on doubles.

They aren’t making bespoke rifles, but they do have their niche and they seem to be selling more rifles every year.
 

dirthead1

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I hope everything works out for them. I sure do want a Clymr stock for my Bighorn. I’m not going to advocate the value of their rifles vs other custom builders, but they seem to have found a niche market and I wish them the best. They seem to provide a high quality product and jobs to a lot of people. I’m sure the truth is somewhere between what’s listed in the lawsuit and GW’s official statement.
 

landonm

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So many doubters for GW, I wish them the very best and know they will pull through (waiting for a br3000 or something like that from them soon since the br2500 is now a few years old). Lots of nice stuff they have that I can’t afford. They don’t cater to people who debate if an arken scope is right for them, and then take months to save for it. They cater to a whole different client. These clients don’t just buy 1 gun and done, but keep buying their guns every year. Mr.Davidson made a good business and I wish him all the luck. He is doing what we all wish we could do. Unfortunately lots of bitter or jealous people here.
Thanks for standing by us! It's called the BR4. Coming this summer along with plenty of other great stuff. :censored:
 

velayo_0317

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View attachment 7333614
To everyone who’s reached out and thought about me and my family’s well being with recent news. All I have to say is: Thank you! Zoie and I are truly grateful and thanks for reminding me why I love the long range shooting community.

For everyone else; probably be best if you spend more time at the range working on your skills on being a better rifleman and less on the Snipers Hide forum trying to discourage the successfulness of a 2A business. The $10k long range systems we sell might not be everyone’s cup of tea, and that’s fine but I see first hand what type of clientele are buying Gunwerks rifles. And I do my best to educate them that buying a Ferrari doesn’t automatically make them a professional sports car driver.

If you got that .25 MOA banger for a quarter of the price of a Gunwerks system, I am truly happy for you. I hope you know how to use and maximize the full capability of that rifle system, in any clime and place and to the best of what you define as “proficiency.” My question to you is, if you got a Honda Civic that takes you from point A to Point B and you are happy with that, why are you hating on the guy that wants to do the same thing in a Ferrari?

Pretty sure Frank started Snipers Hide so that people could share their experience and help those that are looking to get into long range shooting and/or find some relevant information on it.

We’re still training and training was solid this week, as the shooters in this pic don’t have the time to lurk on forums or Facebook, Instagram. They’re too busy running multi-million dollar companies, and using their off time to get educated in the art and science of long range shooting and exercising their 2A rights as a red blooded American.

Anyways. I hope that everyone can use Snipers Hide as a resource to help their goal of being a relevant and modern day rifleman because I enjoy sharing my videos on here for that reason.

Thanks guys and keep your face on the gun.64726305-D45D-4257-9891-E51D8EFDE05E.jpeg
 

JohnnyUno

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We’re still training and training was solid this week, as the shooters in this pic don’t have the time to lurk on forums or Facebook, Instagram. They’re too busy running multi-million dollar companies, and using their off time to get educated in the art and science of long range shooting and exercising their 2A rights as a red blooded American.

So what makes you think some of us aren't doing the same thing? You're condescending remarks on this subject remind me of something your CEO would say. Hopefully it isn't rubbing off on you too.
 

Aaron Davidson

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Please read my official statement. Here's the takeaways:

Delinquent sales tax: fake news (5 minutes to look it up)
Delinquent vendor payments: fake news

We stroked a cash payment to Wells Fargo today for nearly 3 million bucks! True story.

We tried to get fair treatment, and stood up for our rights, without rolling over at the first sign of pressure. I might be a little too cocky. WF pulled out the big guns, we settled our obligation.

One other point of clarification regarding the business development grant. City of Cody got the money, built a building. We've agreed to lease it for 20 years, I signed a personal guarantee - for 20 years! Gunwerks fronted the 5 acres of land and hundreds of hours of design and management oversight during construction.

https://www.gunwerks.com/blog/press-releases-5/post/official-statement-from-gunwerks-ceo-regarding-wells-fargo-litigation-225#scrollTop=0

I'll accept apologies via pm if you don't want to post them publicly....
 

slowlearner

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Please read my official statement. Here's the takeaways:

Delinquent sales tax: fake news (5 minutes to look it up)
Delinquent vendor payments: fake news

We stroked a cash payment to Wells Fargo today for nearly 3 million bucks! True story.

We tried to get fair treatment, and stood up for our rights, without rolling over at the first sign of pressure. I might be a little too cocky. WF pulled out the big guns, we settled our obligation.

One other point of clarification regarding the business development grant. City of Cody got the money, built a building. We've agreed to lease it for 20 years, I signed a personal guarantee - for 20 years! Gunwerks fronted the 5 acres of land and hundreds of hours of design and management oversight during construction.

https://www.gunwerks.com/blog/press-releases-5/post/official-statement-from-gunwerks-ceo-regarding-wells-fargo-litigation-225#scrollTop=0

I'll accept apologies via pm if you don't want to post them publicly....
Congrats on not only paying WF, but also the move to Cody. Reduced debt probably feels great.
 

velayo_0317

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So what makes you think some of us aren't doing the same thing? You're condescending remarks on this subject remind me of something your CEO would say. Hopefully it isn't rubbing off on you too.

Then I applaud you for your ability to multi task. Maybe it’s a reason I’m not a millionaire. Are you offended because the shoe fits?

Or maybe the comment is directed toward the nay sayers who think Gunwerks rifles are over priced and that there’s no market to who we sell for?

regardless on however you want to receive my comment, I’m gonna stand behind the company that allows me to put food on the table.
 

R_Swanson

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I'm dying over here at the irony of these two statements back to back in the same post:

Pretty sure Frank started Snipers Hide so that people could share their experience and help those that are looking to get into long range shooting and/or find some relevant information on it.
View attachment 7333614
We’re still training and training was solid this week, as the shooters in this pic don’t have the time to lurk on forums or Facebook, Instagram. They’re too busy running multi-million dollar companies, and using their off time to get educated in the art and science of long range shooting and exercising their 2A rights as a red blooded American.
First you say how the forum is a resource for education and to improve your skills for long range shooting. Then you tell us all how these ultra successful people don't have time to spend with us plebes on a forum, because they are spending it learning how to shoot.... unlike us. :ROFLMAO:

FWIW: For some of us its not about money, and one of your guns is easily within our reach. Hell, how many 10k guns are on this board? A shit ton. You won't find me on guided hunts except in area's where its my only opportunity to hunt that animal, but thats me, not your clientele. Learning, experiencing, failing... and then achieving your goals is half the fun. I bet some of those guys running multi million dollar companies that are too busy for us would agree, as its probably how they built their businesses.

I wish you the best. The more options we have in the market the better.
 
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