What’s your idea of the perfect Rimfire optic?

Dthomas3523

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Forget price. That’s a whole other discussion.

What would you like to see if you could design the perfect optic for Rimfire?

If you want to play along (lots of manufacturers read this forum, so it’s a good way to get the info out there) list:

What discipline you shoot (nrl22, .22prs, f class, bench rest etc)

Min and max magnification

How fine of an adjustment youd

reticle preference or any features you’d like to see in a reticle (tree, hashes, anything you want

And anything else you might like to see in the perfect Rimfire optic.

Ready, set, go
 

littlepod

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1. Large - In Focus Depth, since there are so many stages that go between 25-50-75-100 and back and forth in NRL22.

2. Max magnification somewhere ~30. In a competition, I only dial that high maybe at a 1/4" at 50, but I could give it up down to 25 if I get other asks. Min ~5. I do like to zoom out for quick target acquisition. Or I start zoomed out if it's a stage that starts standing/port arms.

3. .2 mil hash marks for precise holdovers. Floating dot reticle. My favorite reticle right now would be MPCT2 from ZCO I think. I love my Ares ETR, but it doesn't have .2 hashes after 1mil.

4. Large EyeBox.

5. Locking Diopter

6. I do like a locking windage knob, I've noticed a few times on my other scopes that things sometimes get changed as I move things around.

7. 10m Parallax so you can easily practice dry firing at home. (Though the DFAT has worked great)
 

Tree

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5-25 power range could go higher or lower but not needed. Parallax down to 25y or less. Zero stop. Mil reticle. At least 25 mils (preferably more) for ELR. Reticle similar time mil-c or MPCT2. NRL22 shooting plus ELR shooting.
 
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drglock

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5-25 range, fast focus, parallax that’s spaced out more than say the Athlon’s or the new NX8, forgiving eye box covered windage, Christmas tree style reticle with center dot and .2 graduations and tracks repeatable and of course parallax’s to 25yds. At least 30 mils total elevation.
 

Tree

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I'm pretty curious how this thread will go. Good information so far. Anything different reticle related that you 22 comp. shooters might like to see? We are curious, genuinely.
Well I should have my 4-20 soon. ?. Trying to decide if it’s “too much” for my V22. ?. Or should I put it on my CF rifle.
 

Tiger_Shilone

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SCOPE & RINGS -- Scopes are a very personal choice item. What I desire is:

1) variable mag from 3/6x-20/32x. I normally shoot silhouette with a fixed 24x and also need high magnification for KYL racks and benchrest. But I also need low power to quickly find targets in a TAC style match. I usually run 15-19x magnification for most of a tac style match.
2) MIL/MIL reticle and turrets. I can use MOA for bench or silo, but I am used to MILS for everything else including ranging target distance.
3) Adjustable side focus, front AO not as easy to use in TAC/Steel matches
4) Lots of elevation adjustment 25+ MIL or 75+ MOA minimum. Long ranges require a lot of drop. Mandates a 30mm+ tube to get that elevation range. I really like SWFA's 40 Mils of adjustment on their 3-15, but the reticle is getting dated
5) Zero stop for elevation knob, hate losing points when I'm on wrong dial turn and it happens more often than I care for
6) Would really prefer 10 mil/rotation, but 5 mil/rotation acceptable, less turns on a dial = potentially less screw ups per #5 above
7) Decent glass quality with a great eyebox and relief
8) Xmas tree reticle for holdovers with proper sized hashmarks
9) Weight under 34oz w/rings
10) First focal plane for ranging and for match stages that do not allow elevation knob changes (holdovers again)
11) short range parallax focus of 20 yards or less (6 meter focus of the SWFA 3-15 is great for basement dry fire practice)
12) numbers for each mil on xmas tree subtensions
13) floating dot reticle at center
14) larger side focus wheel than what the industry is providing at the moment, easier to fine adjust in a hurry
15) want to be innovative, give me a larger diameter elevation knob slip-on ( or under) skirt that I can add and replace a custom tape or snap in number holders for my specific frequently used ranges

Researching various scopes led me to these 3 options (I am driven by weight due to a restriction in one of my games with a 8.5lb total weight rifle including mag and scope)



SWFA 3-15x variableGreat choice that I all ready own, but reticle is bit thick with no xmas tree option, 5 MIL/rotation turrets & only 15x. no numbers on the reticle so not as intuitive as those that do. 40 mil travel, 24oz, 6 yd focus
https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-3-15x42....html?___SID=U

Athlon Optics Midas Tac 6-24x Met all criteria listed above 25 mil travel, 26.3 oz, 10 yard min focus
https://cameralandny.com/shop/brands...iation=1891359

Nightforce Optics NX8 4-32x Meets all criteria above when mounted with titanium rings. 26 mil travel, 29 oz, 11 yard min focus
https://www.milehighshooting.com/nig...igillum-mil-c/



Wound up going with the Athlon Midas Tac 6-24x and it has been a great choice so far. I like the floating dot center and the hashmarks with numbers are easy to read. Best reticle I own in my opinion. Bothers me in the back of my mind that it is made in china.

I also have $$$ down on a Nightforce NX8 Mil-C reticle scope, but they have not released yet.


I do not like subtensions that alternate up/down and form waves, plays havoc with my eyes. I want them all on the same side. I do like @koshkin 's reticle design he has posted here in one of his threads.

Swfa 3-15 on a CZ455 tactical I used for a number of years for matches. Dope info on elev knob has 25 facets with 13 marked stickers for pre-selected ranges. Larger side focus wheel made the stiffness of the turning action a non-issue. May look hokey, but they worked well for me and my usage from 25-200 made a dope card not needed most of the time.

IF weight wasn't an issue then a nightforce ATACR 7-35 and the new march offerings have a lot of appeal.
 
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Frankr

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Well I’m a bit different it seems.
I hunt more than target shoot or competition so for me it would we

3-18 (maybe a good 4-24) (think Leupold VX6)
FFP with a good Christmas tree reticle but not too cluttered
Horse shoe around the center dot so at low power it’s fast and at high power you have a fine dot for aiming.
locking low profile turrets with zero stop
Illumination
Forgiving eyebox and eye relief
Sub 22 ounce weight (would love it sub 20)
Great glass too.
 

Hellbender

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I want a do-it all .22.......I shoot bench, NRL22, local matches, Silhouette (must stay under 10 lb 2oz) and hunting, I add removable weights when needed (bench and NRL).


The following is non-negotiable to me on a .22LR scope (price is not considered).....25m parallax (10 is better), FFP, Mil/Mil, Zero stop, 25+ mil elev. range, good glass, minimum 24x (more is better) on high end, usable reticle on low end (6x or less), 10 mil/turn elevation turrent, I don't like christmas trees, as to me...on a .22...seeing bullet splash is much more important than the hold marks. .5 mil hashes are good, with numbers marked at each full mil below., 32 oz or less weight.

My "standard of excellence" is an S&B 5-25 PMII, if I could make weight, it would be about perfect, but it's too heavy.

I've had the following on my Vudoo over the last year...
1st... Vortex AMG 6-24
Pros: Good glass, light weight, 30mm tube, LOVE the zero setup separate from the clicks. With a very accurate gun, I often want a zero that is "between" .1 mil clicks.
Con's: Cluttered reticle, wanted 10m parallax.

2nd....NF NX8 4-32 w/ Mil-C
Pro's: Good Glass, light weight, 30mm tube, Reticle choices, 10m parallax
Con's: Parallax adjustment is really weird, not consistent (same with 7-35 ATACR), enough that I'm gonna get rid of it.

Just bought a March 5-40x56 FFP FML-1 w/ .05 mil adjustments......sent it back to Japan to get .1mil adjustment on elevation knob only (leaving windage at .05...for better zeroing capability) we'll see how this works out. It seems to check all my boxes pretty well.
 

steve123

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For NRL22 and long range 22 rimfire.

My March FX 5-40x56 is almost there but it has the FML1 reticle which ruins the whole deal to me. Like the 10Y close focus. It lives on my daughters PCP air rifle currently for Field Target air rifle comps.
Had to settle for my crappy S&B 5-25, lol. Like the 10M close focus and the H59 isn't too bad either.

For all around hunting, and some tactical matches, on a lightweight hunter.
I'd like to see a 1" tubed scope with great glass.
Maybe a FFP 3-15x38.
11" long and sub 16oz, or less for both.
Mil/mil with wide low profile elev turret and capped windage, a zero stop. Large numbers for old eyes.
.06 mil line thickness, all .2's, .1 mil centerdot, circle of death about 3 mil wide, holdovers made of a different type per mil, like smaller dots for mil line 1 below center dot, bigger dots for mil line 2, small dots again for mil line 3, and so on, hollowed out bars .2 mil thick on outside of FOV starting out 1 mil wide on the outside and a sloped taper to a sharp point 5.2 mil of centerdot on all sides.
10Y parallax
Old school high polish blue.
 

Dthomas3523

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So far, the common thoughts I’m seeing:

As much magnification as possible. Minimum 25x but more is always better for .22 if you don’t give up to much quality.

As close as possible parallax.

Current reticle choices on the market are acceptable.
 
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gebhardt02

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I haven't shot one of the NRL22 matches yet. What are the furthest target distances, and what size targets? I'm assuming bigger than 2 MOA plates? How about non-NRL matches, furthest target distance?
 

Dthomas3523

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I haven't shot one of the NRL22 matches yet. What are the furthest target distances, and what size targets? I'm assuming bigger than 2 MOA plates? How about non-NRL matches, furthest target distance?
For Nrl22, 100yds max.

1/4” up to 6” plates depending on distance and props.

PRS style .22 matches are typically out to 300 and have fairly large targets past 200 (otherwise the cheaper .22’s won’t have a chance for impacts)

ELR is typically out to 600yds and is 12” targets.
 

phlegethon

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I just want the ZC527 MPCT2 with higher magnification and parallax down to 10yards. I have a Nightforce 7-35 on my Vudoo and it would have been great if I hadn’t bought the Zero Compromise shortly before. As it is the only real annoyance with the ATACR is the rotating ocular.
 

Shooter1960655

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it looks like it was covered pretty well. High magnification close Parallax setting Christmas tree type reticle! the more magnification in my opinion the better.
 

acudaowner

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I got hopeful that someone would post the pic of a telescope mounted on a rifle huge clear easy to see mag and great glass all at the fraction of a normal scopes price would be perfect maybe not realistic but its my dream and I can want what ever i think i want at that moment . oh and a not so cluttered ret that lights up , and exray vision
 

wigwamitus

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I'll be "different" ... I have two .22LR one is a stoner .22LR(16) I use for vermin/small-varmints ... the other is a tikka t1x .22L(20) ... which is used for dots. So two rather different use cases. And I've evolved to two different optics solutions.

For the vermin gun ...



I actually use an ACOG TA01 for the day time ... and at night I clipon a BAE Skeet. I have to dial right 6 and up 6 clicks when adding the Skeet and dial left 6 and down 6 when removing the skeet. But that has worked consistently and gives me one .22LR I can use for both day and night.
Since setting up the ACOG and Skeet about a month ago, it has been successful and gotten 16 critters, both day and night, with most of those being 1 shot, 1 kill engagements. My DOPE is that I am zeroed at 25yds and 0.5 inch high at 50yds and 1 inch low at 75 yds, so I use the critter as the reticle (I haven't tried to reverse engineer the hash marks on the ACOG - critter as the reticle has been working fine).
I use eley 40gr HP subsonic in this gun.

The "dot gun"

Fits more into what you guys are talking about. I'm using a "crappy" athlon 6-24x scope. I only dial to zero and then I'm just using the center of the reticle to aim for my dots. Usually 1/4 inch at 25 yds. I count "center" punches as 1 point, "tags" as half a point and misses as zero. I usually shoot on around 18x and that seems to give the least distortion in the image.
I use Lapua 40gr center-x subsonic in this gun.
 

Funcpottr

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I am enjoying the expansion of the mid range optics. There are definitely cheaps and obviously many offerings which cost way more than the grand majority of rimfire rifles in use. I finally got the pennies put together for a diamondback and the difference is amazing. I expect to get better as time and funds become available ... and I don't believe I will ever put $2k on top of a rimfire.

Close parallax, clear glass, wide mag range, clean reticle, and above all a reasonable price tag. Or at least plenty of people willing to keep the second hand market stocked.
 

Night Assassin

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Well I should have my 4-20 soon. ?. Trying to decide if it’s “too much” for my V22. ?. Or should I put it on my CF rifle.
I run that exact set up on my Vudoo. MPACT 2 , love it.
However I did have to switch the rail on the receiver to 60 MOA because I lost too much elevation with the 20 MOA.
I can say I'm very pleased.
 
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Dthomas3523

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From the responses so far, seems like an 8-40 (ish) with 10m parallax and a reticle similar time mpct2 would be the ideal Rimfire optic for most?
 

phlegethon

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From the responses so far, seems like an 8-40 (ish) with 10m parallax and a reticle similar time mpct2 would be the ideal Rimfire optic for most?
Yeah I wonder what the parallax on the new March 5-42 will be. Or if ZCO is planning anything higher mag.
 

meestermeetch

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I like having the same reticle as my primary match gun. Low parallax is key. I don't think you need a ton of magnification, 3-15. I like having a few tenths of dial under the zero, and an easy to set zero stop. Capped windage. Good field of view, clear glass. I am running a vortex PST Gen2 3-15. It's not perfect, but I had it on hand.
 

scottieb042674

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I'll be "different" ... I have two .22LR one is a stoner .22LR(16) I use for vermin/small-varmints ... the other is a tikka t1x .22L(20) ... which is used for dots. So two rather different use cases. And I've evolved to two different optics solutions.

For the vermin gun ...



I actually use an ACOG TA01 for the day time ... and at night I clipon a BAE Skeet. I have to dial right 6 and up 6 clicks when adding the Skeet and dial left 6 and down 6 when removing the skeet. But that has worked consistently and gives me one .22LR I can use for both day and night.
Since setting up the ACOG and Skeet about a month ago, it has been successful and gotten 16 critters, both day and night, with most of those being 1 shot, 1 kill engagements. My DOPE is that I am zeroed at 25yds and 0.5 inch high at 50yds and 1 inch low at 75 yds, so I use the critter as the reticle (I haven't tried to reverse engineer the hash marks on the ACOG - critter as the reticle has been working fine).
I use eley 40gr HP subsonic in this gun.

The "dot gun"

Fits more into what you guys are talking about. I'm using a "crappy" athlon 6-24x scope. I only dial to zero and then I'm just using the center of the reticle to aim for my dots. Usually 1/4 inch at 25 yds. I count "center" punches as 1 point, "tags" as half a point and misses as zero. I usually shoot on around 18x and that seems to give the least distortion in the image.
I use Lapua 40gr center-x subsonic in this gun.
I am fascinated with the "vermin gun".
 

wigwamitus

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... I am fascinated with the "vermin gun" ...
CMMG upper, "heavy" 16"barrel. I can put a suppressor on it, but its pretty quiet with just the a2 tread protector and better balanced without a suppressor.
Sling setup to support standing unsupported shooting.
UT Arms mil-spec lower with timney 3 lb trigger
CTR stock, carbine tube, buffer, spring
Sig 10rd mags (most reliable I've ever used)
ACOG TA01/TA51
Eley 40gr HP subsonic

Very relilable, most reliable 22 stoner I've had and I've been thru a bunch of them. It will jam in rain and snow and ice sometimes (i.e. water on the action/ammo). But if dry then 99.9% cycling reliability.

The 4x magnification on the ACOG seems perfect for my uses and the optic is small and light.
The skeet weights 9oz when it is on there, but its small enough and far enough back that it doesn't appreciably change the balance

I've been using a stoner .22lr upper for vermin/small varmints for last 7.5 years and just set it up exactly like this back in Nov and its definitely the best setup I've tried. I normally use the skeet on my helmet for handsfree spotting when I'm out doing other things, but I can take it off the helmet and put it on the 22 for night ratting. In the past, I've used the 22 as a dedicated night ratter with a small thermal scope on it, but don't have to do that now.
Also was double purposing the Tikka as a dot gun and day vermin gun, now it can be strictly a dot gun.
 

Tree

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I run that exact set up on my Vudoo. MPACT 2 , love it.
However I did have to switch the rail on the receiver to 60 MOA because I lost too much elevation with the 20 MOA.
I can say I'm very pleased.
I have a 40 base and looking at the 20 spuhr for 60 total. Don’t think I would ever run out of elevation on my V22?
 
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scottieb042674

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CMMG upper, "heavy" 16"barrel. I can put a suppressor on it, but its pretty quiet with just the a2 tread protector and better balanced without a suppressor.
Sling setup to support standing unsupported shooting.
UT Arms mil-spec lower with timney 3 lb trigger
CTR stock, carbine tube, buffer, spring
Sig 10rd mags (most reliable I've ever used)
ACOG TA01/TA51
Eley 40gr HP subsonic

Very relilable, most reliable 22 stoner I've had and I've been thru a bunch of them. It will jam in rain and snow and ice sometimes (i.e. water on the action/ammo). But if dry then 99.9% cycling reliability.

The 4x magnification on the ACOG seems perfect for my uses and the optic is small and light.
The skeet weights 9oz when it is on there, but its small enough and far enough back that it doesn't appreciably change the balance

I've been using a stoner .22lr upper for vermin/small varmints for last 7.5 years and just set it up exactly like this back in Nov and its definitely the best setup I've tried. I normally use the skeet on my helmet for handsfree spotting when I'm out doing other things, but I can take it off the helmet and put it on the 22 for night ratting. In the past, I've used the 22 as a dedicated night ratter with a small thermal scope on it, but don't have to do that now.
Also was double purposing the Tikka as a dot gun and day vermin gun, now it can be strictly a dot gun.
Alot of guys run 17 HMR for racoons around here but i have taken plenty of them with 22. Especially if they aren't spooked. Thanks for the details. Gives me a starting point.
 

Night Assassin

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I have a 40 base and looking at the 20 spuhr for 60 total. Don’t think I would ever run out of elevation on my V22?
Reaching out to 500 yards for me is 31.5 Mil. It is very rewarding to hear the small impact almost 2.5 seconds later.
Any thing past 550 and it’s time to start using the holds!
 

Nik H

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A most excellent thread

I run an S&B 5-25 PMII with GenIIXR reticle. I use NF rings and DIP 25 MOA dovetail to pic rail interface

It is a super nice setup. Perfect parallax range and enough magnification fro what I typically due (combination of steel and bullseye). Tracks like a champ and the reticle is really great for both types of the targets I shoot.

@Dthomas3523

What are your critical features? You're the only one who hasn't chimed in
 

Kisssofdeath

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Forget price. That’s a whole other discussion.

What would you like to see if you could design the perfect optic for Rimfire?

Ready, set, go
I thought I would have fun with this so here goes.

Material: One Piece Carbon Fiber
Tube Dia: 40 mm
Objective: 56 mm
FOV: 6" to 200'
Magnification: 1x-60x
Turret: Zero and locking
Click Value: .05 mil or 1/8"
Adjustment range: 300" @100 yards
Exit Pupil: 20mm
Parallax Adj: 5' to Infinity
Glass Quality: The best of the best
Durability: Water, shock and hammer proof.
Eye Relief: 1 to 10"
Illuminated Reticle: Yes
Focal Plane: Both
Adjustments: Mill or inches
Length: 12"
Weight: 10oz

Probably leaving things out but that should be a start.
 

Dthomas3523

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A most excellent thread

I run an S&B 5-25 PMII with GenIIXR reticle. I use NF rings and DIP 25 MOA dovetail to pic rail interface

It is a super nice setup. Perfect parallax range and enough magnification fro what I typically due (combination of steel and bullseye). Tracks like a champ and the reticle is really great for both types of the targets I shoot.

@Dthomas3523

What are your critical features? You're the only one who hasn't chimed in
I’m pretty simple. I’m running a zco 527 and it does just about all I need.

If I were able to make some small changes that made it 100% Rimfire specific:

10m parallax
35-40 or so power (not really a big deal, but magnification is more important in Rimfire IMO).

And a optimized parallax range from 25-300 yds. Similar to how zco and tangent theta are close to parallax free after 2-300yds.

I find myself dialing out parallax *much* more in Rimfire than centerfire. I’m not sure if it’s possible to do. But an optimized parallax range inside 300yds would be awesome.

Mpct2 reticle is just about perfect.
 
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StrayDog

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If my AMG I use for rimfire had the same forgiving eyebox as my 56mm Razor I use for centerfire, that'd be my ideal NRL.22 scope.
I wonder if a 56mm AMG would achieve that?
I like the 25yd parallax, 24x top end, center dot mil tree, and locking turrets.
Price be damned, then ZCO, TT, NF 7-35, but in reality, Vortex <$2K.
 

hunter1959

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very interesting to read these replies... seems like a great deal of high end glass is being applied to .22lr for seemingly longer range use than originally intended for the round... not that I disagree with the challenge...

My favored .22lr is a Remington Matchmaster 513T manufactured in 1952... it was a gift from an uncle many years ago and had originally been sighted with Redfield adjustable peeps... I had a Leupold VX II 3-9x33 EFR installed and it does everything I need done, and likely as was intended... sweet piece on targets and bushy tailed tree climbers...
 

Sgt47

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I see a lot of those 10-50 SIII's on Long Range Shooters Of Utah - KYL matches videos.
 

Funcpottr

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very interesting to read these replies... seems like a great deal of high end glass is being applied to .22lr for seemingly longer range use than originally intended for the round... not that I disagree with the challenge...

My favored .22lr is a Remington Matchmaster 513T manufactured in 1952... it was a gift from an uncle many years ago and had originally been sighted with Redfield adjustable peeps... I had a Leupold VX II 3-9x33 EFR installed and it does everything I need done, and likely as was intended... sweet piece on targets and bushy tailed tree climbers...
That is certainly the challenge with any cartridge. Get good enough gear and build good enough skill to take it further more consistently. Then the last question is how do you get a good enough job to pay for a $6-8k rig shooting 30 cent/round ammo you aren't using to put food on the table.

I like your old school setup. I certainly can't shoot better than any of my off the shelf rifles yet. Some day...
 

Rolltide

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Great thread with lots of info.

I fall into the same category as others, my 7-35 ATACRs are tough to beat.

I also really like the left side windage and parallax on the elevation turret of the Kahles 5-25 that's on one of my Vudoo's.

If I could use the left side windage and parallax of the Kahles, with a magnification range of 5 - 35 or higher, I think it'd be perfect...as long as it doesn't get any heavier...

I'm good with the MIL-C reticle or the SKMR3...
 

**DRB**

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Minuteman
Jan 29, 2018
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A question for those with experience...

If my centerfire 6mm creed rifle has a 5-25 Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 on it would it make sense to go with the 4-15x Viper for NRL22 or should I go with another 5-25