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F T/R Competition What .30 cal bullet?

T

tansinator

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 29, 2007
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Signal Mountain, TN
For all that shoot FTR. What .30 cal bullet are ya'll using?

I have used 175 SMK's, 185 Berger boattail and VLD's(hard on brass). I just switched to the Seirra 155's (2156). I have not shot in a comp yet, still working on loads.

Eddie
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

I have shot the siera 175 SMK exclusively in a Sako TRG22 and an SPR action with 1-12 twist krieger barrel, shot around 1/2 MOA in both rifles with same load. I will not change a thing as this is good from 100 to 1000yds.
hope this helps.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What distance most likly?</div></div>

300 to 1000 Yards!
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

175 SMKs have been good to be at 600 and 1000, but I am thinking of playing around with the 155s. Being able to push them faster than the 175s was got me curious, and now it has turned into this itch that I need to scratch.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

.

I use mostly Berger 155gr. VLD Target. And now I am playing with the Berger 155.5gr. Full Bore.

My rifle simply does not like the new Sierra 155gr. (#2156).
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

Eddie,

It is really hard to go wrong with the Berger 155.5 bullet. You can push it to speeds that make it difficult to eclipse (from a wind drift standpoint) with the heavy bullets, without the attendant issues that commonly pop up when running the heavies. Run the ballistics of a 155.5 running over 3000 fps, vs a few of the heavies. There's not as much difference there as you might think.

Most of the US Team is running the 155.5, although a couple are playing very successfully with the 185's. There are a few guys around that are making creditable showings with 210's, although that is more rare.

While there are some that are doing very well with 175's, most of the F-Class folks seem to either go with 155's (or 155.5's), or skip up to the 185 grain bullets.

Hope this helps,

Darrell
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

would those 155.5 run well in a 1-12 twist or 1-11 is better??
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

Chris,

Both John Weil and I were running the 155.5s this weeknd (actually I was running 155 Hybrids on Saturday)... his were pointed up, mine were meplat uniformed mainly because they came from an unusually snarky-looking batch. Both of us using factory 30" 1-12" barrels, works just fine for 155s.

Monte
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would those 155.5 run well in a 1-12 twist or 1-11 is better?? </div></div>

My F/TR rifles are 1-12 and 1-11,25 and the both shots the 155gr. very, very well!!!
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

Monte-

How did you like the 155 hybrids? I was VERY impressed.


As Darrell said, you can't go wrong with the 155.5 Fullbore from Berger. That is an awesome bullet. The Sierra 2156 can shoot well, but it is picky. The Bergers shoot well under a broad set of conditions. However, I currently prefer the 185 Berger BT, but they do come with a downside. Your form has to be very good to shoot them well. The lighter 155 (or 155.5) is much more forgiving on your form. With the 210's in .308Win, your form is ultra critical. With my 185 load vs my 210 load, there is very little difference even at 1000 yds. I'm pushing the 185's at about 2775-2800+ and I can push the 210's up to 2660 fps (with issues over 20+ shots).
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

Jeff,

They seemed to shoot well enough... the scores from the Burden LR match don't reflect any significant difference in the bullets so much as just the conditions being a little less stable on Saturday. My gun was zeroed w/ the 155.5s, so I used a few more sighters than usual @ 800 to get things centered up as the hybrids seem to consistently print about 1-1.25 moa right and .75-1.0 moa high from the 155.5s - everything else being the same - even @ 100yds. After taking the zero 'offset' into account... I really didn't see much difference in come-ups between the loads that couldn't just as easily have been attributed to day-to-day enviro changes.

Some notes from loading them... at least according to my Tubb bearing surface comparator, with inserts from John Hoover @ Accuracy One... the bearing surface is almost identical between the two, plus or minus lot-to-lot tolerances, @ 0.182-0.183". The Book shows .265 for the BTs and .278 for the hybrids... not sure where that much difference comes from, other than not using the same reference datum to measure form as Berger does. Using a Hornady LnL OAL tool and Sinclair inserts, the 155 hybrid jammed hard into the lands in my gun measures 2.196" and the 155.5BT measures 2.209". I seated them to 2.150" and 2.165" respectively.

Unfortunately even jumping 40-50 thou, I have about 100 thou of bearing surface in the neck with either bullet. Obviously, it works... but its getting down to where I'm not really comfortable with it either. Time to start working on a 185gn load in earnest.

Monte
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

I shoot the Sierra 155 MK (2156): love em. I love that they close the meplat,eliminating the need for me to do so. They shoot fantastic and don't seem to be picky.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot the Sierra 155 MK (2156): love em. I love that they close the meplat,eliminating the need for me to do so. They shoot fantastic and don't seem to be picky. </div></div>

Then you probably have a sizable jump (more than 0.010"). They grouped well when jumped say 0.020-0.030" (which is a really long jump for me).
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

Actually a couple of questions:

Anyone shooting 155 Scenars? If you are how far do you jump them to keep them tight?

How about the 155 SMK (21560

And,

Is a 1:11.25 to tight for the 155s?
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Monte-

How did you like the 155 hybrids? I was VERY impressed.


As Darrell said, you can't go wrong with the 155.5 Fullbore from Berger. That is an awesome bullet. The Sierra 2156 can shoot well, but it is picky. The Bergers shoot well under a broad set of conditions. However, I currently prefer the 185 Berger BT, but they do come with a downside. Your form has to be very good to shoot them well. The lighter 155 (or 155.5) is much more forgiving on your form. <span style="color: #FF0000"> With the 210's in .308Win, your form is ultra critical.</span> With my 185 load vs my 210 load, there is very little difference even at 1000 yds. I'm pushing the 185's at about 2775-2800+ and I can push the 210's up to 2660 fps (with issues over 20+ shots). </div></div>

I'm awfully glad to hear you say that- I thought I was looking my mind!

To echo the choir- the 155.5's simply shoot. Two rifles, and 4 barrels, developing loads has been like falling off a log. I've had really good results from the 185's too, but the 210's are definatly more work.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

However, I'm going to try again with the 210's after Ireland to find a good load. I have to continue to experiment! But to get the 155.5's to shoot well is like falling off a log. I can't find a condition they don't shoot well in.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However, I'm going to try again with the 210's after Ireland to find a good load. I have to continue to experiment! But to get the 155.5's to shoot well is like falling off a log. I can't find a condition they don't shoot well in. </div></div>

Do you think the 155.5 is an easier bullet to shoot than the 2156 SMK? I'm thinking about going from the 175 SMK to a 155 and wondering which to chose, maybe I'll just buy a box of each and have at it, it is after all range time, I'm just not that big a fan of load development.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone shooting 155 Scenars? If you are how far do you jump them to keep them tight?

How about the 155 SMK (21560

And,

Is a 1:11.25 to tight for the 155s?</div></div>
I have found the Scenars to be very jump friendly and usually jump them .010" to .020". As for the 11.25 twist, I just had a new tube put on my .308 and elected to go 11.25 again. It works.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

Agree - good info - it would appear that the ballistic wind bucking advantage of the 185 Berger over the 155.5 Fullbore is not as large in practical competition as the ballistic tables would lead us to believe......

To the guys that have shot the 185 Berger in F-TR competition - any differences between using Lapua LR primer brass compared to Lapua's small rifle primer Palma 308 brass? Any clear preference for either the one case or the other with the heavier bullets?

Thanks!
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However, I'm going to try again with the 210's after Ireland to find a good load. I have to continue to experiment! But to get the 155.5's to shoot well is like falling off a log. I can't find a condition they don't shoot well in. </div></div>

Do you think the 155.5 is an easier bullet to shoot than the 2156 SMK? I'm thinking about going from the 175 SMK to a 155 and wondering which to chose, maybe I'll just buy a box of each and have at it, it is after all range time, I'm just not that big a fan of load development. </div></div>

Yes, the Berger 155.5 or the new hybrid 155 are easy to load for. About anthing will work from what I have found. I have had good and bad (elevation) days with the 2156. I was jumping them my standard 0.012" and later found out that others were seeing the same issue I was and their remedy was to jump them more, like 0.020"+. I haven't shot them much since so I can't say with certainty that it will work.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JvT_404</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agree - good info - it would appear that the ballistic wind bucking advantage of the 185 Berger over the 155.5 Fullbore is not as large in practical competition as the ballistic tables would lead us to believe......

To the guys that have shot the 185 Berger in F-TR competition - any differences between using Lapua LR primer brass compared to Lapua's small rifle primer Palma 308 brass? Any clear preference for either the one case or the other with the heavier bullets?

Thanks! </div></div>

I talked with Kent Reeve (he is like the Palma king) and he is not switching as of our last conversation. So that, to me, is enough for me to hold tight and see what others are experiencing with them. Some people swear by the small primer .308, but others do not.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

The more I look at the numbers the more I think that going to a 155 in my 24" barrel may not buy me much other then burning more powder per shot. The 185 Berger HPBT on the other hand look like they may actually help out a fair amount, at least on paper, and JBM and Litz BCs seem to be spot on with my 175 SMK load, assuming I can get it up to the same MV that I'm shooting the 175s. I'm currently loading them over 44.2 g of Varget, so I'm not a max loading. I am pretty sure I could push the 175s with 44.5, and if I can get the 185s up there they may make the same MV. So, all this assumes that I can safely take the 185s up to 2650.

Is anyone shooting 185s HPBT, (not the VLDs)? Do they like to jump or do you have to seat them into the lands?
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

XTR

To get the speed up on a shorter barrel, you got to get run the 185's hotter which is bad on brass. Ask me how I know this? Ruined alot of expensive brass on the 185's, 2-3 loads and pockets were loose. Shot great but not worth the gain. I think we need to find a load that works and learn a little wind reading skills.
wink.gif


Eddie
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

I'm on the fence with this and cant figure out which way to fall.

I'm getting better at wind, my scores are coming up, and my 175 SMK load is running pretty good, but seriously, miss a 1/2 MPH wind shift and you get a 9, a full MPH and it's an 8, that's brutal, and I'm definitely not that good, so I get the occasional 8, and they are annoying as all hell.

As of last weekend I'm shooting mid 180s with the 175, I think a better bullet could make that into the high 180s to 190. I know I need to improve my wind reads, I'm working on that, the new to me Leica 77 is helping with that, but if I can get another 5 points with a better arrow I'll take it.

I do kind of like the idea of running the sierra 155s, for one they are 2/3 the price of Bergers and two I'm wondering if they run the same as the 150SGK out to about 400 yds. It would be sweet if I could switch them up like you can 168s and 165SGKs.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

Here is what I suggest you do:

Get one box of all the bullets you are considering

Get a load that pushes them well and groups well at 100 yards

Take them to 600-1000 yards and shoot them together.

Ten rd groups each bullet with no taking down target and no changing hold
'
See what bullets shoot best in your rifle and which distances.

Then send me my normal consultation fee. LOL
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is what I suggest you do:

Get one box of all the bullets you are considering

Get a load that pushes them well and groups well at 100 yards

Take them to 600-1000 yards and shoot them together.

Ten rd groups each bullet with no taking down target and no changing hold
'
See what bullets shoot best in your rifle and which distances.

Then send me my normal consultation fee. LOL</div></div>

Yep! Sounds like a good idea.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

I'm really not crazy about doing load development. I'm not one of those guys who has to constantly be changing something, but, I've got 100 of the 185gn Bergers and 100 of the Sierra 2156's on the way. I'm see how these work for me and what MVs I can get from my 24" barrel w/o pushing things too far.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

What kind of gun and barrel combo are you using? What powder and primers are you using? Try seating the bullets for test at jam ,then .020,.040,.060,.080,.0100,and .120 off the lands. Some barrels seem to respond to a long jump to the lands.I cant even write all the stuff I want to say like what kind of case prep are you doing and who's die's etc,what type of press you have etc. You can email me at; [email protected]
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

I have been shooting SMK 175's, in a .308, and at 800 & 900 I shoot in the mid 190's, but between 900 & 1000 the bullet goes above the tree's, and at 1000 I drop down to 188-190. Last weekend I tried some SMK 190's and the first relay I shot a 189 with the 175's and on the second I shot a 197 with the 190's. Guess that I am going to switch to SMK 190's, you might want to look at them. I am jumping them about .010.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

I've picked up 100 of the Berger 185 BTHP targets and of the 155SMKs [2156]

First I've got to see what I can get for MVs out of my 24" barrel. I know some of the M80 ball I've chronoed in my rifle shoots in the high 2900s with a few over 3000FPS so if I can get the 155s up to 2950 I'll buy me an inch and a half of drift per MPH of wind.

If I can get the 185s to run 2550 then I'll have about the same elevation but I'll save close to an inch and a half in windage.

All those numbers are based on JBM but so far the info that I've gotten there has been pretty accurate.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

I'm currently shooting BHA (Winchester) brass. (OK, it says BHA on it but it weighs the same as my Winchester)

How much Varget are you guys running behind the 185 Bergers? I've made up a test batch that runs from 40.5gn to 43.5gn in 0.5gn steps. and I'm initially seating them .020 from the lands. If I'm reading the info on this bullet correctly it's not as sensitive to jumping as the VLDs. I'll work on seating depth after I get in the right ballpark for charge weight.

Just for a comparison reference I typically run 44.2 behind 175SMKs for about 2650.
 
Re: What .30 cal bullet?

I could get 43.7 grains of varget out of a 25 inch one in 12 twist barrel. That was my best accuracy load that was not hotter than heck. I do not remember speed on that load but it shot well in my rifle and also a couple of my friend's rifles.

Eddie
 
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