Suppressors What are the advantages of pistons on suppressors
- Thread starter Zevdogs
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Re: What are the advantages of pistons on suppressors
try without the piston first, if your gun will not cycle you can add the piston or booster.
try without the piston first, if your gun will not cycle you can add the piston or booster.
Re: What are the advantages of pistons on suppressors
..
Excellent question, one of the most popular and successful 9mm suppressors sold today does not have one and has been delivered by the hundreds to the Army and the Air Force. In the 92f, it is delivered in a "wet" version, without any Neilson Device to be seen. But that will not be the case with an Osprey copy. Trough designs, shot wet can be heavy.
Your "form 1(ing) a copy of an Osprey" entails much more than you might imagine.Depending on the internals the "worth it" could very well be the deciding factor between its cycling, cycling poorly, or not cycling at all. In this case, the use of the piston is not an arbitrary decision, but rather the basis of the design.
And that is only the start..
Some go as far as to use the pistol to "tune" the POI as well.
Some use the device to provide "select-ability" between single shot (quieter, as less slide/action noise) or auto loading.
Some use it to attend to multiple threadings.
And some, use this as the means to take OFF the booster and add a static coupler for machine guns with barrel that do not move. Not doing that on a FA rated can wears the booster spring considerably.
Etc. etc.
Everything old is new again...
http://www.yankeehillmachine.com/store/MAXIM.html
This can's design, off axis, bottom trough, old Maxim is held by U.S. Firearms. http://www.usfirearms.com/pages/maxim_press_release.asp
Square the sides and what do you have? Osprey? 1909-2009, 100 years??
.
..
Excellent question, one of the most popular and successful 9mm suppressors sold today does not have one and has been delivered by the hundreds to the Army and the Air Force. In the 92f, it is delivered in a "wet" version, without any Neilson Device to be seen. But that will not be the case with an Osprey copy. Trough designs, shot wet can be heavy.
Your "form 1(ing) a copy of an Osprey" entails much more than you might imagine.Depending on the internals the "worth it" could very well be the deciding factor between its cycling, cycling poorly, or not cycling at all. In this case, the use of the piston is not an arbitrary decision, but rather the basis of the design.
And that is only the start..
Some go as far as to use the pistol to "tune" the POI as well.
Some use the device to provide "select-ability" between single shot (quieter, as less slide/action noise) or auto loading.
Some use it to attend to multiple threadings.
And some, use this as the means to take OFF the booster and add a static coupler for machine guns with barrel that do not move. Not doing that on a FA rated can wears the booster spring considerably.
Etc. etc.
Everything old is new again...
http://www.yankeehillmachine.com/store/MAXIM.html
This can's design, off axis, bottom trough, old Maxim is held by U.S. Firearms. http://www.usfirearms.com/pages/maxim_press_release.asp
Square the sides and what do you have? Osprey? 1909-2009, 100 years??
.
Re: What are the advantages of pistons on suppress
Thanks for the great input I was able to go in to silencerco and test out their fantastic ospreys and see the internals .. I'm trying really hard to save up some cash for one but in the meantime I'd like to try a copy in titanium with out the piston
it won't be exatctly the same but for a tax stamp I'll try it
Thanks for the great input I was able to go in to silencerco and test out their fantastic ospreys and see the internals .. I'm trying really hard to save up some cash for one but in the meantime I'd like to try a copy in titanium with out the piston
it won't be exatctly the same but for a tax stamp I'll try it
Re: What are the advantages of pistons on suppress
Did not know a suppressor had a piston...???????????????
Where is this info at?
Did not know a suppressor had a piston...???????????????
Where is this info at?
Re: What are the advantages of pistons on suppress
Various companies call them different things...
Nielson device, booster, etc.
A piston, in my world, usually implies a part that goes into the booster to allow it to be mounted to different threads.
Semper Fidelis
Various companies call them different things...
Nielson device, booster, etc.
A piston, in my world, usually implies a part that goes into the booster to allow it to be mounted to different threads.
Semper Fidelis
Re: What are the advantages of pistons on suppress
Gemtech calls theirs a Linear Integral Decoupler, or L.I.D.
Gemtech calls theirs a Linear Integral Decoupler, or L.I.D.
Re: What are the advantages of pistons on suppress
.
The most significant purpose of the Neilson Device is not its common ability to swap out between threadings, it is the ability to "float" the can for a milisecond. Understand the following and you have understood one of the principle engineering hurtles of great suppressor design.
An automatic with a active barrel is engineered to articulate properly with it's bushing surfaces, link pin and slide lock-up surfaces. Firearm manufacturers spend a good deal of time getting the fit between a moving barrel and the rest of the pistol just right, assuring good return to battery accuracy and reliable operation. Too tight at lock-up or bushing and reliable action may not be assured. Too sloppy at bushing and lock-up and accuracy may suffer. Now...lets add a suppressor can at the very end of that same barrel. The once properly balanced factory designed pistol is compromised by the additional weight, with that weight at the worse possible position literally leveraging the barrel into it's slide lock-up.
Now lets start loading water, or grease or oil on top of that and one can see the issue. This can also be the case with the addition of a compensator, break, etc. on an automatic...weight.
What to do?
Starting back decades ago, the observation was made that there is a brief recoil period before these same designs "unlock" and begin to cycle. During the recoil period, Neilson recognized that a properly designed "piston and spring" booster could completely eliminate the vast majority of the weight of a barrel attached suppressor and for that milisecond period, the can could be "floated" weightless. From the perspective of the firearm, there is NO suppressor attached and normal action cycling is assured.
The booster's springs, the boosters length of compression, the boosters primary blast chamber's volume and dwell all come into play. Get it right and it is a thing of beauty, allowing a sizable, heavy suppressor to be added and work well, with no loss of reliability of the pistol or as importantly wear to the barrel/bushing/lock-up surfaces. Get it wrong and you have, at best, an unreliable pistol.
A knowledgeable eye, when scanning a rack of suppressor can quickly sort them out by wet/dry, low capacity/high volume of fire, Static or kinetic barrel, pistol/rifle, sealed or crack, etc. Learn the basics and you can too.
One now knows as well why properly servicing (cleaning, lubing and replacing the boost spring as required) your Neilson is an important requirement often overlooked. In fact, in a centerfire, wet can it is the ONLY part of the suppressor that should be cleaned.
Get the balance perfect and you can "stand your can on its ears" and obtain the quietest single shot capability as well. Explained in this thread. Along with photos of a disassembled Neilson Device. Read way down the first page.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=151587&Number=1669464
.
.
The most significant purpose of the Neilson Device is not its common ability to swap out between threadings, it is the ability to "float" the can for a milisecond. Understand the following and you have understood one of the principle engineering hurtles of great suppressor design.
An automatic with a active barrel is engineered to articulate properly with it's bushing surfaces, link pin and slide lock-up surfaces. Firearm manufacturers spend a good deal of time getting the fit between a moving barrel and the rest of the pistol just right, assuring good return to battery accuracy and reliable operation. Too tight at lock-up or bushing and reliable action may not be assured. Too sloppy at bushing and lock-up and accuracy may suffer. Now...lets add a suppressor can at the very end of that same barrel. The once properly balanced factory designed pistol is compromised by the additional weight, with that weight at the worse possible position literally leveraging the barrel into it's slide lock-up.
Now lets start loading water, or grease or oil on top of that and one can see the issue. This can also be the case with the addition of a compensator, break, etc. on an automatic...weight.
What to do?
Starting back decades ago, the observation was made that there is a brief recoil period before these same designs "unlock" and begin to cycle. During the recoil period, Neilson recognized that a properly designed "piston and spring" booster could completely eliminate the vast majority of the weight of a barrel attached suppressor and for that milisecond period, the can could be "floated" weightless. From the perspective of the firearm, there is NO suppressor attached and normal action cycling is assured.
The booster's springs, the boosters length of compression, the boosters primary blast chamber's volume and dwell all come into play. Get it right and it is a thing of beauty, allowing a sizable, heavy suppressor to be added and work well, with no loss of reliability of the pistol or as importantly wear to the barrel/bushing/lock-up surfaces. Get it wrong and you have, at best, an unreliable pistol.
A knowledgeable eye, when scanning a rack of suppressor can quickly sort them out by wet/dry, low capacity/high volume of fire, Static or kinetic barrel, pistol/rifle, sealed or crack, etc. Learn the basics and you can too.
One now knows as well why properly servicing (cleaning, lubing and replacing the boost spring as required) your Neilson is an important requirement often overlooked. In fact, in a centerfire, wet can it is the ONLY part of the suppressor that should be cleaned.
Get the balance perfect and you can "stand your can on its ears" and obtain the quietest single shot capability as well. Explained in this thread. Along with photos of a disassembled Neilson Device. Read way down the first page.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=151587&Number=1669464
.
Re: What are the advantages of pistons on suppress
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.
Get the balance perfect and you can "stand your can on its ears" and obtain the quietest single shot capability as well. Explained in this thread. Along with photos of a disassembled Neilson Device. Read way down the first page.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=151587&Number=1669464
. </div></div>
Christ man, I take your advice, open the thread and I see from the first pic that a Neilson Device, disassembled no less, is a dog's face wedged inside the ass of another dog. I hate to see what it looked like assembled, and there's no way I am standing that "assembly" on its ears to see how quiet the single shot capability is, especially if assembly results in a piston action as this thread would suggest.
Oh, the humanity, err animality or whatever!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.
Get the balance perfect and you can "stand your can on its ears" and obtain the quietest single shot capability as well. Explained in this thread. Along with photos of a disassembled Neilson Device. Read way down the first page.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=151587&Number=1669464
. </div></div>
Christ man, I take your advice, open the thread and I see from the first pic that a Neilson Device, disassembled no less, is a dog's face wedged inside the ass of another dog. I hate to see what it looked like assembled, and there's no way I am standing that "assembly" on its ears to see how quiet the single shot capability is, especially if assembly results in a piston action as this thread would suggest.
Oh, the humanity, err animality or whatever!
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