What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

USW.260

USW.260

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#1
New to loading Belts so I have went through some of the other threads and noticed if you just setup the FL die to "just lets the bolt close" depth that you will get maybe 4 relaods on the brass "winchester". But someone was like hey use this body die and you will get closer to 10+. What was that, who makes it -Forester, Redding? Thanks.
 
#4
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

I've never needed the collet die. Bump shoulder and catch the base above the belt with a Redding body die. Neck size with your choice...

John
 
#6
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USW.260</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New to loading Belts so I have went through some of the other threads and noticed if you just setup the FL die to "just lets the bolt close" depth that you will get maybe 4 relaods on the brass "winchester". But someone was like hey use this body die and you will get closer to 10+. What was that, who makes it -Forester, Redding? Thanks. </div></div>

I use the Redding body die. I've had no issues over a decade reloading the 7 RM, with NOT getting the lower part of the body to fit the chamber of my '97 Rem Sendero.

I'm on 5+ cycles with some of my Fed, RP and WW cases.

Chris
 
#8
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never needed the collet die. Bump shoulder and catch the base above the belt with a Redding body die. Neck size with your choice...

John </div></div>

John,

I know you're a great guy and know what you're talking about when I see your posts.

I personally have a bit of ( hard to close the bolt ) issues when I only bump the shoulder a couple of .001 on the headspace. That is why I bought this collet die. That solved my issues. I don't know how you load them etc. so, I can't speak for anything you're doing. I can always close the bolt but, it's not an effortless event.

I personally think that if you do not size the belt of the case, then, you are actually headspacing on the belt and not the shoulder. Although... If your measurements are correct then, it doesn't matter too much.

I've got a weird ( but I like it ) way to do it.... body size, collet body size, neck size with a lee collet ( to get the inside of the neck perfect ) then, I turn the neck ( to get the outside of the neck perfect ), trim, re-collt the neck to reset the neck tension after turning etc. and that works pretty damned well. ( at least for me )
smile.gif


Everyone has their own voodoo. LOL
 
#9
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never needed the collet die. Bump shoulder and catch the base above the belt with a Redding body die. Neck size with your choice...

John </div></div>

John,

I know you're a great guy and know what you're talking about when I see your posts.

I personally have a bit of ( hard to close the bolt ) issues when I only bump the shoulder a couple of .001 on the headspace. That is why I bought this collet die. That solved my issues. I don't know how you load them etc. so, I can't speak for anything you're doing. I can always close the bolt but, it's not an effortless event.

I personally think that if you do not size the belt of the case, then, you are actually headspacing on the belt and not the shoulder. Although... If your measurements are correct then, it doesn't matter too much.

I've got a weird ( but I like it ) way to do it.... body size, collet body size, neck size with a lee collet ( to get the inside of the neck perfect ) then, I turn the neck ( to get the outside of the neck perfect ), trim, re-collt the neck to reset the neck tension after turning etc. and that works pretty damned well. ( at least for me )
smile.gif


Everyone has their own voodoo. LOL </div></div>

Point well taken. I should put a caveat in my statement about the Redding body die.

"To date, I've been fortunate enough with the Redding body die, that bumping the shoulder .001-.002" *also* makes the base of the brass small enough to chamber with my load, with my brass, in my chamber".

In my chamber, it's not shoulder length that causes resistance when rechambering fired brass, it's diameter above the belt. I adjust my body die to *just* touch the shoulder and, voila, the brass is also now small enough above the belt. It is absolutely conceivable that there is a chamber/load/brass combo that would *not* be sized enough above the belt without pushing the shoulder back too far, in which case the Willis collet die would be the only solution.

John
 
#10
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is absolutely conceivable that there is a chamber/load/brass combo that would *not* be sized enough above the belt without pushing the shoulder back too far, in which case the Willis collet die would be the only solution.

John</div></div>

that would suck
 
#11
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

I have been lucky with the dozen + belted magnums I have reloaded for and never had the case bulge just ahead of the belt therefore requiring something like the collet die.

If in fact that is happening there must a chamber dimension issue to allow this bulge. I resize all fired brass from same rifle by bumping the shoulder back .002 thus head spacing from the shoulder.

I have run across belted magnum rifles that required NEW brass be necked up to the next caliber size and then necked down to the correct size only enough to allow the bolt to close with some resistance to minimize case stretch at just above the belt.

I have been lucky but if needed the collet full length sizing die would be in my box of loading tools.
 
#12
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

I use a redding body die for my 300 and I have never had a problem either...when I saw the guys sales pitch for the collet die I thought to myself what am I doing right because I'm usually doing something wrong
 
#13
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

Thanks guys. But I am most worried about Case Head Seperation and that is why I want something to put some brass back above the belt when I resize. And too being that this is the first belt I will load for I will be trying the Willis and the Redding dies. Case Life is number one in my book and wallet $$. I understand on a Magnum that case life will be less than others but I don't want to have to buy a bag of brass every other weekend because I have an itchy trigger finger and I love to shoot my self broke.
 
#14
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

As others have said get the Larry Willis die. When I was shooting belted cases I did a FL resize and every time and sized above the belt when things got tight. I will still getting 7+ reloads out of my Winchester brass.
 
#15
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USW.260</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys. But I am most worried about Case Head Seperation and that is why I want something to put some brass back above the belt when I resize. </div></div>

Once you've gotten case stretch, you can't "fix" it.

If case head separation is your concern (and that is how my brass usually dies also), Load your very first round light load, and into the lands. This keeps the case head against the bolt and minimizes stretch above the belt. Then simply bump the shoulder no more than .001-.002" each firing and run a load that is conservative and your brass will live a long time.

John
 
#16
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

I believe John is right. Even though I've never had a case that would not chamber after bumping it only .002, I use the collet and you can tell the difference. I could always chamber them but, you can tell that you're actually fixing something with the collet. IMHO. If you use the collet, you may be able to bump the least bit possible and, IMHO you can make sure the shoulder is going all the way forward as possible in that if you don't do that you can be sure that the case is stuck in the bulge and not going all the way forward. ( allbeit, maybe only .002 if you do it correctly )

If you do decide on the die, don't mess with anything kind of sizing lube except imperial sizing wax.... I haven't found any other high pressure lube that works with the collet and, I have had to remove cases from that die by drilling the brass out and extracting it.
 
#17
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

Hi,
I'm the guy that designed (and patented) the <span style="font-weight: bold">Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> the <span style="font-weight: bold">Digital Headspace Gauge</span>.

There are a lot of misunderstood things about resizing belted magnum Calibers. Just look at the different reloading forums. Thinning of brass is the ONLY way to get headspace separations. The Digital Headspace Gauge is designed to resolve that problem. It shows how to push the shoulder back accurately .001" to .002" <span style="text-decoration: underline">at the most</span> with a FL die, and that solves the chamber clearance problem problem.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Case bulge is a totally different issue</span>. Stretching your cases will thin your brass and make the case bulge much worse. Case bulge does NOT happen in your chamber. It happens during the repeated process of reloading.

The pressure of belted magnums is about the same as most non-belted cartridges, and the case bulge problem has nothing to do with high pressure. It's caused by excessive chamber clearance (at the shoulder) of factory loads, and the limitations of conventional die travel due to the belt. That's why belted calibers require special treatment.

Also, it makes little difference if your particular chamber is tight or not, and it makes very little difference if you're loading for one rifle or a dozen different rifles.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Here's The Problem:</span>

Factory belted ammo headspaces on the belt, and the shoulder gets blown forward .015" to .025" at the very first firing. That stretches, thins, and weakens belted cases far more than any non-belted case will ever experience. After that, the cumulative wear from reloading (pushing downward on the case) eventually causes a bulge at the weakest place - just above the belt.

Case bulge can easily be measured with ordinary calipers. In fact, the top of the collet die is a case width gauge that shows if and when a little "extra" resizing is needed. Once a case is bulged, it is prevented from entering far enough inside a resizing die. If your sizing die is too tight (like a SB die) it will just plow the brass rearward against the belt. After I designed several prototypes, the collet die proved to be the best method to move brass only inward.

Read the <span style="font-weight: bold">Questions & Answers</span> section on my website, and you'll see most of the questions that shooters are asking about reloading belted calibers. You'll see what makes belted calibers different, and why over 4,800 shooters have switched to using these two reloading tools.

- Larry Willis
 
#18
Re: What brand of Body die for Belted Mags?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Innovative</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Factory belted ammo headspaces on the belt, and the shoulder gets blown forward .015" to .025" at the very first firing. </div></div>

And this is why if we handload and want to mitigate this, we load a fireform load into the lands, with a min. powder charge... and probably why I haven't needed a Willis die.

John
 
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