What is best to start with?

lima27

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I am looking at buying a rifle for long range shooting. I probably wont ever go beyond 1000 yards once a month and out to 500-600 yards more often. I plan on handloading my own ammo. I dont want to spend more than $1200 for the rifle just because for my uses I am not sure I need $3000+ GAP rifle and I am very confident in my reloading skills and have made up for a supposed draw-back in my current rifles with very excellent results. What I am stumped on are my choices in rifles and caliber. I have been looking at a couple Remingtons in .308 (1 in 10 and 1 in 12 twist rates). Plus I have been paying attention to threads on this forum about the .260 and have always liked the idea of it. The only draw-back I have seen with it is the extra expense for reloading components and the lesser selection compaired to the .308. I have been racking my brain and keep coming up with a tie between them everytime. Any ideas? I do plan on taking some precision rifle courses once I have the rifle put together and when I find the load it likes.
 

*greenhorn*

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Re: What is best to start with?

savage 10 so you can make a switch barrel if not a rem 700 sps so you have many many upgrades or the savage 12

now you'll get opinions like a-holes

but 308 or 7.62 x 51 NATO cratrage, then 6.5 cred, 7-08, 300 WM or 300 WSM, some like 30-06?? but they have their own reasons, 338LM but that's a bit over kill in my .02$

me personalty i like NATO rounds that way if the world ends their easy to get and reload

i shoot what your ranges are with 308 and 300 WM in rem 700 action its heavy modd'ed now but out of the box mine was a rem 700 acc-sd and could hold my own at those yardages, trick is the glass you need good glass for 1k i recommed the vortex vortex 50mm first focal plane its about 900.00 ready to go 30mm tube nice nice turrets call cs tactical thier a hide sponcer and will give you discount, talk to mike
 

lima27

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Re: What is best to start with?

You guys are awesome and very fast. This has got to be the greatest forum ever. I will say I am partial to the .308 and I was looking at the 700 AAC. I dont know why I am so attached to it other than its a M40ish rifle in a classic sniper cartridge. I do like savage and have owned two rimfire models that I believe are the best ever. savage makes an awesome rifle but it is very hard to pass up all the mods, parts, and components that a Remington 700 in .308 has on the market. I was looking at putting the AAC in a bell carlson or mcmillan stock (the one with the hook for your hand on the bottom of the stock) and a Weaver 3-15x50mm. I would like to use Weavers 20 MOA base and 6 hole picatenny rings just to stay with the same company to match the scope (figured they would fit/work the best). Anyone ever use them before?


p.s. I am looking at harris for bipods. I think the 6-9" model will work but I have only ever used a 9-13". I am also not very sure of a canting or pivoting model, but if I am crazy, let me know. Does anyone have any bipod knowledge?
 

DamnYuppie

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Re: What is best to start with?

I have a .308, it is my only centerfire rifle and I have no complaints.

I see all the threads about the .260, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x47L, and all the others. I will probably get one of those someday but I am very happy with the rifle I have and would not do it any differently if I had to do it over again.

Also get an Atlas bipod, they are much better! If you go with the Harris get one that swivels/cants.
 

Wylie Custom

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Re: What is best to start with?

+1 for the Remington 5R model. They are great shooters out of the box.

I have two harris bi pods and both are 6-9 and swivel. They are great and I will put one on every rifle.
 

rubicon_unlimited

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Re: What is best to start with?

I prefer the performance of the .260 over the .308 but they are both great calibers!

All of my rifles have Harris S-BRM 6"-9".
 

lima27

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Re: What is best to start with?

Couple more questions. First, can someone post a link for the Remington 5R? I think I have found it, but want to make sure I am looking at the right rifle. The one I saw has a 26" 1 in 12 twist barrel and is stainless. Second, what is the benefit of an atlas bipod over harris? I believe I have seen the atlas, and while it is a lot more expensive, it does look beefier. Third, if I were to get a harris or any brand of bipod that swivels and cants, can they be locked down? I guess I am afraid it will come loose when I dont want it to.
 

SigsauerP229

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Re: What is best to start with?

If you want an out of the box good rifle I'd go with either the Rem 700 5R or the Savage 10FCP.

If you think that you might do any customizations, I'd go with the threaded Rem AAC. This way you have a good action and a threaded barrel if you want to go with a brake or suppressor.

I prefer an adjustable comb, so the AAC is a cheaper way to just swap out the stock then if you wanted to get rid of the 5R or Savage stock. If you want more accuracy get the action blue printed and swap out the barrel.

Either way being new to the game I don't think any of these are a bad choice.

Goodluck.
 

DerMeister

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Re: What is best to start with?

I would recommend a Remington 700 SPS tac in .308. You could even get the thread model if you wanted. Remington has a $40 rebate going on for a little bit longer on these rifles.

There are so many options for this rifle, and that makes it appealing. The rifle with a decent scope, rings, base, bipod and stock can all be had for less than $1500 when done. I will have $1200 into mine, however I still have the crappy stock on it.

With that said, I do have feeding problems with mine, which seem to be fixed. Other than that it is more accurate than me, and I really like it.
 

lima27

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Re: What is best to start with?

Where can you find the info for the rebate and do you have to order it from somewhere special? I only ask because my local wally world has it in there special order catalog.
 

fdkay

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    The 5R is not cataloged on their site.

    They now make 2 .308 versions. Standard 24" and a 20" threaded model.

    Mine really likes the hornady 168 hpbt match bullet.

    That being said, the .260 is no more expensive to handload than the .308.

    Of course, you must consider that the cartridge is called the .260 Rem because they standardized it. Yet they offer absolutely no heavy barrel varmint or tactical rifles fo it.

    Now, when you consider factory ammo, the .308 trumps them all. Every ammo company makes a couple of loads for .308 and if you do your home work, match ammo can be had for as little as 17 a box.

    The 6.5 creedmore is another option. Outperforms the .308 easily, match ammo available for about 24 a box.

    I will throw this out there: 7mm-08, superior to the .308, brass is easy to come by, lots of excellent 7mm bullets.

    This rifle:
    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/3/products_id/77248

    This stock:
    http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-553/*NEW!-Bell-&-Carlson/Detail

    This trigger:
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/220642/...-2-to-4-lb-blue

    This comes in below 1000 and will serve very well.

    One other option in your price range are several heavy barrel savage models in 6.5 creedmore and .260. The model 12 LRP in 6.5 would be very hard to beat.
     

    lima27

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    If it isnt in the catalog, how to you purchase a Remington 5R? I do really like the fact that there is so much available for Remington 700 rifles, so I would like to stay with them. I was thinking of starting with a .308 and maybe rebarrel it later if needed. I will say that the stainless Savage in 6.5 Creedmoore (dont remember the model number) is making the decision harder.
     

    VKC

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    I would stick with what you have and just upgrade you stock. Get your rifle bedded, action trued, trigger tuned, barrel recess crowned +/- threaded and capped. If you already have a few Remingtons, you would be better served with doing that then anything else in my humble opinion.

    Here is an example of a remington package:
    http://shortactioncustoms.com/?p=636

    But there are many other good gunsmiths as well.
     

    GlockandRoll

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    Stainless Target 5R milspec models are limited runs, they do them in batches of 250 from what I have heard.

    If you want to hand load, and you are looking for the best long-range round, I'll wager you cant beat the Savage 6.5 for the money.

    The trigger and stock are just great.

    Unbeatable accuracy out of the box, all of my salvage rifles have been .25moa OR BETTER, straight off the shelf. Also, the world record F-class (if still current) was set with an off-the-shelf Sav 6.5x284.

    In fact a press-release I once saw from Sav claimed that the 1st and second place world championships were with the same out of the box rifle. Hard to argue against that for $1000.
     

    lima27

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    Thanks again for all the input. If I buy a stock with an aluminum bedding block, is there any other steps I need to take to "bed" it further? Also, how much recoil does a the 6.5-.284 round have? I am not shy about recoil (my hunting rifles are a 3 inch magnum 12 gauge and a 7mm Mag). My worry is a lot of the places that I have looked at to take precision rifle courses have warned against magnum calibers and other rounds that kick too much since the courses of fire require 400-600+ rounds. Plus I dont want to burn the barrel out since I plan to shoot whenever I get the chance and I tend to shoot a lot of whatever I take.
     

    fdkay

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    5R mil-spec:
    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540287

    24" is an excellent choice for barrel length.

    No upgrades are really required, though I replaced the x mark pro trigger with an old remington trigger tuned to 3.5 lbs.

    I discourage the use of the 6.5-284. It is an excellent long range cartridge but expensive to feed (brass is limited), and will toast your barrel in 1200 rounds.

    The 5R, on the other hand, will probably be good for 8 - 10,000 rounds.
     

    lima27

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    I really like the 5R. Does it have a 24" barrel and what twist rate is the barrel? I like the fact that the 700 AAC has a threaded barrel so I could use a muzzle break and maybe one day a suppressor, but its not a big deal if I dont have one. The one thing I dont like is the 5R's stock. I mean its better than the AAC's but I already found one I like best. What else do I get from the 5R other than a possibly superior barrel (not that thats not enough)?

    I just read a review on snipercentral.com about the 5R and it mentioned that the barrel was basically a M24 barrel that didnt meet quality standards (I have read a lot about military test and just because they dont like it doesnt mean it doesnt work). The reviewer liked it but didnt say it was so much better than any other.
     

    MadKap

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    I was in a similar boat as you several months ago and went with the 700AAC. I've really been liking it in a B&C A2 stock. A very affordable package. I bought a timney trigger for it and had an aftermarket bolt knob attached. My rifle came with the AAC flashider but I just switched it yesterday to their break, haven't had a chance to shoot with it today though. I'm far from an expert, but I can say I've been pleased with this set-up and I like it a lot more than the hunting style Rem 700s I've used or owned in the past.
     

    fdkay

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lima27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really like the 5R. Does it have a 24" barrel and what twist rate is the barrel? I like the fact that the 700 AAC has a threaded barrel so I could use a muzzle break and maybe one day a suppressor, but its not a big deal if I dont have one. The one thing I dont like is the 5R's stock. I mean its better than the AAC's but I already found one I like best. What else do I get from the 5R other than a possibly superior barrel (not that thats not enough)?

    I just read a review on snipercentral.com about the 5R and it mentioned that the barrel was basically a M24 barrel that didnt meet quality standards (I have read a lot about military test and just because they dont like it doesnt mean it doesnt work). The reviewer liked it but didnt say it was so much better than any other. </div></div>

    The very first 5R's MIGHT have been made from M24 barrels that didn"t make the grade, but tht is no longer the case.

    There IS a 20" threaded 5R available. Twist rate on both is 1 - 11.25.

    You would be able to sell the take off stock for about 200. It is a very good stock.
     

    lima27

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    Ive got another question. I know the 700 AAC works with AAC's brakes. What I would like to know is if I use a JP Enterprises model, will it fit flush with the barrel. Does anyone know the diameter of the 700 AAC's barrel? Also, I really like the Sure Fire muzzle brakes. I know they have models that the threads are correct, but the shroud that extends back over the barrel is only so big. Thats why I need the barrel diameter.
     

    calling4life

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    Savage makes a model 10fcp in HS Precision tactical stocks, McMillan, or the choate tactical stock.
    The long range precision in 6.5 cm as mentioned several times above would be hard to beat too, it comes in a similar to m24 hs precision stock.

    If you are stuck on remmy and really want it threaded out of the box, look at the 20" 5r that is threaded. If you don't like the hs precision stock that comes on this, getting $200 out of it isn't hard at all, that gives you 200 more for your stock of choice. 5r has the stainless action, coupled with that barrel, it is worth the $$
     

    Madpipe

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    I just bought the AAC-SD and like it a lot, i changed the stock to a BC medalist and couldn't be happier
     

    lima27

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    I was wondering what everyone thought of the Rem 700 SPS Stainless. What I can find on remingtons website is that its a 24" 1 in 10 twist barrel. Can someone confirm that? Almost every barrel makes of 20" is a 1 in 12, but if this is a 1 in 10 I would like it better than the AAC sense the longer barrel will add velocity. My only other concern is the diameter of the barrel. I know bull or heavy contour barrels are more rigid and can be more accurate for longer shot strings. Am I over thinking it or is the SPS Stainless a better alternative?
     

    GlockandRoll

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    IMHO, based on experience, the savage will smoke it.. and you can get a really nice stock for savs now also. I really like the accu-trigger as well.
     

    isaactc

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    I started last year with a Savage 10fcp/Mcmillan. Nightforce rings, Vortex scope. After a few months I had my gunsmith pillar bed it for me. Now I have shot at both 600 yards and 1,000 yard meets. I have learned two things, I will save for a much better scope, and the differance between 600 and 1,000 yards is going to take some serious "edjucation" and a lot of practice! The rifle, while not perfect is plenty good enough for me, and its low entry cost allows me to learn without breaking the bank.
     

    steve123

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lima27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks again for all the input. If I buy a stock with an aluminum bedding block, is there any other steps I need to take to "bed" it further? Also, how much recoil does a the 6.5-.284 round have? I am not shy about recoil (my hunting rifles are a 3 inch magnum 12 gauge and a 7mm Mag). My worry is a lot of the places that I have looked at to take precision rifle courses have warned against magnum calibers and other rounds that kick too much since the courses of fire require 400-600+ rounds. Plus I dont want to burn the barrel out since I plan to shoot whenever I get the chance and I tend to shoot a lot of whatever I take. </div></div>

    Just a thought but you already own a very good long range cartridge. Capable of sending 168 grain bullets .62BC at nearly 3100 fps. That load will have few rivals. Also...

    You may not realize this but any cartridge can be loaded down substantially and lighter bullets can also be used to reduce recoil while at the same time extending barrel life.

    Take for instance your 7RM which "loaded down" will still have far superior ballistics to a 308. Load some 140 grain Bergers around 2900-3000 fps and it's going to be a relatively light recoiling rifle.

    It's probably paid for already.
    I imagine you already own dies and components.
    A muzzle brake and/or suppressor can be installed.
    Likely detachable bottom metal can be installed.
    Might have a suitable scope on it already.

    That $1200 would go a long way in accessories,accurizing, primers,powder,bullets,a new match barrel later on,etc...
     

    lima27

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    Its a Remington 770. Its works well, but likes to heat up quickly due to the barrel contour. I am very aware of the 7mm mags long range abilities. I would just rather have its full power in a much better platform. I think my second rig that I buy will be a DTA bullpup in 7mm. But one step at a time.
     

    JGorski

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lima27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its a Remington 770. Its works well, but likes to heat up quickly due to the barrel contour. I am very aware of the 7mm mags long range abilities. I would just rather have its full power in a much better platform. I think my second rig that I buy will be a DTA bullpup in 7mm. But one step at a time. </div></div>

    770? Really? UGH
     

    GlockandRoll

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lima27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its a Remington 770. Its works well, but likes to heat up quickly due to the barrel contour. I am very aware of the 7mm mags long range abilities. I would just rather have its full power in a much better platform. I think my second rig that I buy will be a DTA bullpup in 7mm. But one step at a time. </div></div>

    770? Really? UGH </div></div>

    yeah, it's amazing what some of the remy guys will tolerate to avoid getting a salvage. :p
     

    steve123

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lima27</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its a Remington 770. Its works well, but likes to heat up quickly due to the barrel contour. I am very aware of the 7mm mags long range abilities. I would just rather have its full power in a much better platform. I think my second rig that I buy will be a DTA bullpup in 7mm. But one step at a time. </div></div>

    770? Really? UGH </div></div>

    yeah, it's amazing what some of the remy guys will tolerate to avoid getting a salvage. :p </div></div>

    I don't even like Salvages but I'd take one any day over a 770.

    OP...Sell it to a "box a 20 shells" a year/maybe 2 years type of deer hunter.
     

    lima27

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    Re: What is best to start with?

    Well, those last three post were worth less than a pile of shit. I bet you feel stupid knowing it shoots 1/2 MOA groups out to 400 yards (don't have room to go any further where I last shot it). You can have your Savage, I will take the tiny ragged hole at the other end of the field for $400 less. I already know it isnt a good rifle to use for long range shooting. If your opinion isn't going to be helpful, keep your mouth shut.