I have a bunch of LC10 M118LR ammunition and it shoots fantastic. Does anyone know the powder/charge used in 2010 Lake City M118LR? Thanks
- Thread starter jay6ird
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I have read several times it is 4064, or something in the varget or RL-15 range would be good.
Originally i believe it was a ball powder.
I would personally pick a temp stable powder and match the velocity range your lot is running at and go from there.
The original powder is most likely a non canister grade made for the military anyways.
www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/m118-long-range.4601/
www.snipershide.com
Originally i believe it was a ball powder.
I would personally pick a temp stable powder and match the velocity range your lot is running at and go from there.
The original powder is most likely a non canister grade made for the military anyways.
www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/m118-long-range.4601/
want to duplicate m118lr load.
i know thay use 175 gr SMK, but what powder is the closest powder to what is used ? is it ball or stick powder ? im looking for all the specs.
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It pretty hard to fuckup loading accuracy in ,308 with 175 hpbt's . it has to be one of the most forgiving rounds to load when kept ANYWHERE close to Vel. node like 2600 or 2700 fps .
( my guess ) .. Mil. contract ammo, For M118LR Powder, most likely they use whatever the cheapest with availability they can buy to fill the order, that gets them to meet all the minimum requirements .
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( my guess ) .. Mil. contract ammo, For M118LR Powder, most likely they use whatever the cheapest with availability they can buy to fill the order, that gets them to meet all the minimum requirements .
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you could always take a single round a part and look at the weight of the powder and how it looks to see if it's ball or not you can always put it back together and shoot it you might even be able to figure out what type of powder or at least narrow it down a little .
Click that. Scroll through the different threads that come up.
There is sheet that was around about that time from that listed IMR 4064 with powder charge and the Sierra 175 SMK.
www.snipershide.com
Reload recipe for m118 ammo
I Just bought a reloading kit, so I'm new to this, does anyone have a detailed recipe for the M118 LR round? That's what I've been shooting, I would also consider fed match 175gr, or hornady's 179gr. Everyone's thoughts on what works. My gun is a rem 700 with a krieger 20" barrel, 1-10 twist...
www.snipershide.com 
I recall a discussion some time ago from someone who was involved with developing a powered for the military (the Army) and it was RL-15 that replaced 4064 (might have been done back in 2009???). That person also works (or worked at Federal) and worked on development of AR-Comp for the military (not really designed for small balls like .223). He stated that Federal uses a lot of AR-Comp for their premium match grade 168 and 175 cartridges.
Of course, I'm nothing more than second hand source for this information, so take it for what it is. If you disassemble any of those cartridges and take a close look and compare what you see, it just might corroborate this.
I actually weighed and checked H2O capacity on (10) LC LR '12 cases recently that I had fired. In just 10 cases, I had an H2O capacity ES of .9gr, and the SD was almost a half grain.. without having my data sheet in front of me, I remember capacity being at about the mid 54gr range. Not stellar.
Went and grabbed (10) FC '14 cases from my FGMM 7.62x51 ammo that I'd shot several years ago...ES was down to about a half grain, and overall capacity was up to the mid 55gr range.
I still load LC LR brass for the "look" of M118LR with my M24R. My load has been between 42.7 - 42.8gr Varget because it gave me the best accuracy and velocity in the 2,580 FPS range with different lots. I tried IMR-4064 and Re-15 as well, but the accuracy that I wanted was just never there.
Went and grabbed (10) FC '14 cases from my FGMM 7.62x51 ammo that I'd shot several years ago...ES was down to about a half grain, and overall capacity was up to the mid 55gr range.
I still load LC LR brass for the "look" of M118LR with my M24R. My load has been between 42.7 - 42.8gr Varget because it gave me the best accuracy and velocity in the 2,580 FPS range with different lots. I tried IMR-4064 and Re-15 as well, but the accuracy that I wanted was just never there.
They switched back and forth from rl15 to imr4064.
From a 24 inch Mike Rock 5r barrel the ml118lr was 2640fps.
I was able to replicated that with federal brass, 43.1gr rl15, winchester large rifle primers, 175gr smk or 175gr nosler custom comp bullets
The early ml118 was 173gr bullets. Be careful. Know what you have
From a 24 inch Mike Rock 5r barrel the ml118lr was 2640fps.
I was able to replicated that with federal brass, 43.1gr rl15, winchester large rifle primers, 175gr smk or 175gr nosler custom comp bullets
The early ml118 was 173gr bullets. Be careful. Know what you have
41.76gr 4064 with the 175gr smk is what you're looking for
I can definately believe that, once i tried AR-COMP with 178amax Varget sat on the shelf collecting dust.
It actually went from RL-15 to IMR 4064. RL-15 is double based and reports were that the nitroglycerine would separate at higher ambient temperatures and changed burn rate. IMR 4064 appears to have been reformulated to give temperature stability in the 308 but that just my opinion.
Also , 2nd hand from the M1A forum, when Vista Inc. took over the production of the LCLR ,M118 ammo they started using RL-15 , an in house powder and probably cheaper. The ammo met the Govt. specs under normal conditions. Inter 120+ degree Temps. in the "sand box" and those using this ammo in the M-21 / M-25 {worked over M-14's} Due to the way higher gas port pressures the M-14's started suffering from bent operating rods . Someone finally wised up and the end result was going back to a more Temp. stable pressure , and also resulted in a lot of pulled 175 SMK's , primed LCLR brass, and "surplus" powder being available.
Those were the days
That’s not m118LR, but the mk316, DODIC ab39, aka Federal Gold Medal Match 7.62x51 (not the 308). M118lr’s DODIC is AA11. Those two are constantly confused with each other here.
OP, powder from that timeframe was Reloder 15.
Notice he is asking about the updated version. I am aware of the difference. Thanks.
Mk 316 is a version of M118 LR. I will note that somewhere in the teens Federal did apparently switch the FGMM to AR-Comp or something in that range as some deconstructions found a powder different that 4064 with weight in the 39-40 grains as I recall.
Nope. While they use the same projectile, they are two different ammunition products. Easiest proof is two DODICs. Brass, primer, and powder have always been different from each other, and AB39 came into supply existence to alleviate some issues with AA11 (temperature).
FGMM (308) and the mil load product (7.62x51) have always been different as well. Different powder, charge weight, and performance in the shorter barrels - with a significant higher speed with the AB39.
Citations for nerds:
Previous history of M118 SB and LR detailed here
snipercentral.com
That process improvement process was detailed here: U.S. Navy Small Arms Ammunition Advancements
DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT. Approved for public release; distribution is unlimited
Previous history of M118 SB and LR detailed here
History of the M118 Ammunition
In the late 1950’s the United States military adopted the M14 battle rifle and M60 machine gun as standard combat arms incorporating the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge which was the newly adopted NATO ro…
snipercentral.com That process improvement process was detailed here: U.S. Navy Small Arms Ammunition Advancements
DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT. Approved for public release; distribution is unlimited
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Thanks for finding the NAVSEA reference. I couldn't find it.Citations for nerds:
Previous history of M118 SB and LR detailed here
History of the M118 Ammunition
In the late 1950’s the United States military adopted the M14 battle rifle and M60 machine gun as standard combat arms incorporating the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge which was the newly adopted NATO ro…
That process improvement process was detailed here: U.S. Navy Small Arms Ammunition Advancements
DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT. Approved for public release; distribution is unlimited
OK folks...lets put 2+2 together
And in that very same article:
“The Mk316 ammo is in the process of replacing the original M118LR ammo but it is unknown how long a full replacement will take,”
Two different ammunition products. Go to an ASP with a request for AB39 and see if they bring you anything with AA11 on the box, or vice versa.
It is 2023 now, and I am not sure the current status of it, as my time around both of these products consistently concluded a few years back. That said, I have held in my hand BOTH, separate products up to circa 2018... Lake City 18 case for the 118LR, and FC 18 for the AB39...out of two separate boxed products marked with two different DODICs.
OP’s question was in regards to LC10 118lr. At that time, AA11 was loaded with 43.0-43.1gr of Reloder 15, Lake City case, unknown manufacture brass colored primer, and the projectile was seated and sealed with the tar sealant. AB39 was different in every way except the Sierra 175.
OP should have enough legit info at this stage where he can make an informed decision.
Actually M118LR, the one using Lake City brass, was loaded with St. Marks ball powder, SMP768.
70deg, Just crono'ed some LC10 M118LR from my TRG with 20" barrel and they fly at 2650fps give or take. Thanks for the link/info 918v
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Could you clarify as to what you mean?
PDF seems to show that SMP(r) 768 was a comparison for a proposal or incremental change (red line), but was absolutely not the Lake City Baseline (black line).
Nothing in this deck states this powder was actually being used by Lake City in production. You may be absolutely correct, but the slides just aren't thing the same way you are.
You’re right. And St. Marks pretends this powder doesn’t exist when you call them.
As an aside on the LC rounds, St Marks lists on their website their military powders and I pretty sure it probably doesn't mention every variation of some of the powders.However it doesn't mention any powder usage for the M118LR or it's variants.
When I worked at LC as an outside contractor the powder was RL15 supplied by St Marks out of FL.
This is what I read directly from the label of a canister of powder.
Unfortunately I cannot provide a picture as we could not carry a camera or cell phone in that area.
I have no firsthand knowledge of production the past 10 years.
This is what I read directly from the label of a canister of powder.
Unfortunately I cannot provide a picture as we could not carry a camera or cell phone in that area.
I have no firsthand knowledge of production the past 10 years.
