Gunsmithing What is PTG's "Economy" Pilot?

[Wannashootit]

I wasn't looking for reamers, but clicked on the "sale" icon to see what was there...

They've got a bunch of reamers on sale.
Solid pilot $60, "economy" pilot for $85.
WTF is an "economy" pilot? Nowhere do I see a description. Is it the reamer sans bushing?
I won't use solid pilot reamers, but for that price it would still be way ahead $ to pay to have them converted to live pilot.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Economy pilot means that when they fuck it up, it won't cost you as much.

 

[Wannashootit]

Let's not turn this into another "PTG is...." thread. I've dealt with them enough to know the pluses and minuses.

Just a simple question.

 

[skl1]

I'd call to check, but looking at PT&G reamer page, I think they're marketing as 1) solid pilot, 2) economy with the C Clip bushing attachment (advertised as equivalent to Brownells premium), and then 3) PTG premium with 4-40 screw attached precision ground pilot. any available with coolant grooves for extra.

From the header on Reamers page of PTG:

Chamber Reamers

A) This is our Premium Chamber Reamer with a Precision Ground Bushing held by the appropriate 4-40 screw head. Hand stoned to ream the finest chamber finish possible, we're not kidding when we say it's the most accurate chamber reamer on the market. All prints are finalized by Dave Kiff.

B) With the addition of a precision grooved screw for maximum coolant flow when using muzzle flush, this Premium HSS Chamber Reamer is designed to streamline the chambering process. Simply add any Premium HSS Chamber Reamer to cart and request oil grooves to be added to the screw. Adds $9.00 to total cost.

C) Comparable to Brownell's Premium Chamber Reamers, these reamers are hand stoned and ground to perfection with the addition of a C-Clip to hold the bushings in place. Just select any Solid Pilot in the caliber you need, and we precision grind it for a removable bushing (Add $25.00).

D) Used by Gun / Pistol smiths all over the world, this Solid Pilot Chamber Reamer is designed to get the job done on a budget.

E) Just like the Premium Chamber Reamers, Solid Pilots can be configured for muzzle flush as well. Add precision grooved screws as a customization and we do the rest.

 

[colchester]

It looks like a live pilot with a bushing that is retained by a cir-clip or o ring instead a screw. No first hand experience just what I could glean from the photo.

 

[Praeger]

If you you end up calling Kiff about the economy pilots, would you also ask him about this (from PTG website):

PLEASE CALL AND TALK TO DAVE KIFF ABOUT OUR NEW FINISH BREECH / ROUGHER COMBINATION TOOL; ALONG WITH OUR NEWLY PATIENTED DESIGN FINISH/ROUGHER BREECH ALL IN ONE COMBINATION TOOL THAT WILL CHAMBER THE COMPLETE CAVITY OF THE BARREL IN ONE FORWARD MOTION SAVING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN CHAMBERING TIME AND EXTRA TOOLS.​

Trying to picture what kind of wonder tool that could be. I'd love to save thousands of dollars.

 

[Wannashootit]

^^^
Well, that'd be a good one.
"One forward motion"? I suppose if you had a flush system running at a gazillion psi- prolly the guys running CNC can do it in one pass. Funny, I always thought a finish reamer did that...
Mine uses dark cutting oil, and I still need to clear chips a few times even with pre-bore. I could run more volume, but what a fucking mess that would make. I'm not a production shop, a few more minutes to cut a chamber ain't a problem to me.

Maybe I should call Dave Manson instead, and ask him why he uses "inferior" C-clips on his reamers?

Either way, $85 for a live-pilot is a steal- IF the geometry is correct....

 

[skl1]

Just to be clear, I don't think the C clip attachment is inferior to the 4-40 screw attachment, but I do think that's what the blurb is trying to imply. I think the screw is easier to swap bushings with, but also more likely to inadvertently come loose. C Clip is more secure, but harder to swap bushings with.

 

[Wannashootit]

^^^
I was being facetious...
I buy most of my reamers/gages from Manson, I have no problems with the c-clips. An extra minute to change the pilots, I suppose it would be less expensive to manufacture with a c-clip groove than drilling/tapping for the small machine screw.

 

[wadebrown]

I ordered an economy piloted reamer from PT&G for my 9.3 x 62 build, I was going to rent a reamer at about $45 plus return shipping I figured for the difference I would just order the at $80. I only build rifles for myself and I doubt I will do more than one barrel in 9.2 x 63 so I figured it was a good project to give them a try. It will probably be a while before I get on the lathe for this project but will try to remember to let people know how it went.

The 9.3 x 62 is being built on a mauser 98 for a bear gun and most of my shots are within 40 yards so 1/4 MOA accuracy is not needed. When a black bear comes in in the last 15 minutes of legal shooting shot placement is not anything close to 1/4 MOA, you are lucky to be able to see a shoulder even on a spring bear, make the tool fit the job.

Overall, I have had good luck with PT&G, in the last year I have only placed 4 orders and only one, a 3 position safety for a Rem 700, was late and it was only two weeks off the quote. In years past PT&G was less timely a lot of companies got a little backed up, I had to return one reamer for poor heat treatment and that was turned around quickly. I do appreciate having Dave Kiff to talk to when I am considering a new wildcat round.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I ordered an economy piloted reamer from PT&G for my 9.3 x 62 build, I was going to rent a reamer at about $45 plus return shipping I figured for the difference I would just order the at $80. I only build rifles for myself and I doubt I will do more than one barrel in 9.2 x 63 so I figured it was a good project to give them a try. It will probably be a while before I get on the lathe for this project but will try to remember to let people know how it went.

The 9.3 x 62 is being built on a mauser 98 for a bear gun and most of my shots are within 40 yards so 1/4 MOA accuracy is not needed. When a black bear comes in in the last 15 minutes of legal shooting shot placement is not anything close to 1/4 MOA, you are lucky to be able to see a shoulder even on a spring bear, make the tool fit the job.

Overall, I have had good luck with PT&G, in the last year I have only placed 4 orders and only one, a 3 position safety for a Rem 700, was late and it was only two weeks off the quote. In years past PT&G was less timely a lot of companies got a little backed up, I had to return one reamer for poor heat treatment and that was turned around quickly. I do appreciate having Dave Kiff to talk to when I am considering a new wildcat round.

Why 9.3x62? Did you just want to put a German caliber in a German gun? If so, I get it.

I was considering one on a 1909 Argentine at one time, but went with the American equivalent 35 Whelen.