OK I need a little incite, I tried the search but didn't come up with any thing. I am wondering can you have to much magnification? the reason I as is I am looking for a scope for my new .223 and started thinking NF 12-42x56. I also have been looking at the st-10 from USO. So this got me thinking about how much magnification do I really need so please school me on magnification and its uses or show me a thread that does thanks!
Rifle Scopes what is to much?
- Thread starter jcwarrior87
- Start date
Re: what is to much?
why in the hell would you put a 42x scope on a 223?
why in the hell would you put a 42x scope on a 223?
Re: what is to much?
What type of shooting will you be doing? F-Class, Plinking, comps? It makes a big difference. Yes, you can have too much magnification.
I don't think you need more than about 16x for most run and gun types of competition. For F-Class, more mag is acceptable. There are many variables that come into play.
What type of shooting will you be doing? F-Class, Plinking, comps? It makes a big difference. Yes, you can have too much magnification.
I don't think you need more than about 16x for most run and gun types of competition. For F-Class, more mag is acceptable. There are many variables that come into play.
Re: what is to much?
Since you are already thinking NF.
5-22 NXS. NPR-1 Recticle.
Mirage may make you turn down, but never up.
Hope this helps.
Since you are already thinking NF.
5-22 NXS. NPR-1 Recticle.
Mirage may make you turn down, but never up.
Hope this helps.
Re: what is to much?
Depends on what your going to do with it. With my .223, I worked up a load with 20x. Now I shoot steel with a 10x on it and life is good. If I were varmint hunting little critters, I may go to 25x. Never had a 42.
Hope this helps
Trilogymac
Depends on what your going to do with it. With my .223, I worked up a load with 20x. Now I shoot steel with a 10x on it and life is good. If I were varmint hunting little critters, I may go to 25x. Never had a 42.
Hope this helps
Trilogymac
Re: what is to much?
I think you just defined "too much". The AR is a 600 yard gun at best. I wouldn't dream of trying to use a scope like that at anything under 500 yards and ideally 1000-2000 yards.
The following article is a good place to start.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-for-the-ar-15/
I think you just defined "too much". The AR is a 600 yard gun at best. I wouldn't dream of trying to use a scope like that at anything under 500 yards and ideally 1000-2000 yards.
The following article is a good place to start.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-for-the-ar-15/
Re: what is to much?
I am not just wondering about .223. I am wondering about magnification in general. It is one thing I have never understood. I one had a very good shooter tell me that all he needs is just enough to see the target he was shooting, then another tell me he wants to see as much of the target as he can. So I am just wondering is there a proper way to figure out how much you need with out under or over powering what ever rifle you are putting it on from .22lr to the 50bmgs. Thanks for your time
I am not just wondering about .223. I am wondering about magnification in general. It is one thing I have never understood. I one had a very good shooter tell me that all he needs is just enough to see the target he was shooting, then another tell me he wants to see as much of the target as he can. So I am just wondering is there a proper way to figure out how much you need with out under or over powering what ever rifle you are putting it on from .22lr to the 50bmgs. Thanks for your time
Re: what is to much?
There are times when you can't use much over 12-15X because of mirage and times when you'll wish you had more field of view (translation: magnification like 2.5-3X on the low end). A 3-12/15 is a great range for most shooting scenarios.
IMO, seeing "as much of the target" as you can is more psychological than practical. Consider shooting with iron sights, where you keep focus on the front post and allow everything else to blur. Personally, that's how I get the most accurate results on the target, which is un-magnified and out-of-focus.
There are times when you can't use much over 12-15X because of mirage and times when you'll wish you had more field of view (translation: magnification like 2.5-3X on the low end). A 3-12/15 is a great range for most shooting scenarios.
IMO, seeing "as much of the target" as you can is more psychological than practical. Consider shooting with iron sights, where you keep focus on the front post and allow everything else to blur. Personally, that's how I get the most accurate results on the target, which is un-magnified and out-of-focus.
Re: what is to much?
If you buy good glass and work on your shooting skills, there is not a need for the higher end magnifications in most applications. Your desired purpose does influence scope selection though.
If you buy good glass and work on your shooting skills, there is not a need for the higher end magnifications in most applications. Your desired purpose does influence scope selection though.
Re: what is to much?
you can use a ar-15 out to 650 meters. or 223 round is what i mean.
you can use a ar-15 out to 650 meters. or 223 round is what i mean.
Re: what is to much?
Depends on use as many others have said. On a bench and competing at long range, meaning careful placement from a detailed view of a bull requires more than a less stable hold or mount as in real tactical shooting or banging plates from a quickly deployed bipod. There's an old rule of thumb which says 1 x per hundred yards of anticipated range. A thousand yards is 10 x by this formula. YMMV depending on eyesight. I tend to agree with it as I don't see needing more than 10 at that range - keep in mind that 10x at 1000 is like looking at a target through irons or naked eye at 100. For .223, 10x is about at the outside.
Depends on use as many others have said. On a bench and competing at long range, meaning careful placement from a detailed view of a bull requires more than a less stable hold or mount as in real tactical shooting or banging plates from a quickly deployed bipod. There's an old rule of thumb which says 1 x per hundred yards of anticipated range. A thousand yards is 10 x by this formula. YMMV depending on eyesight. I tend to agree with it as I don't see needing more than 10 at that range - keep in mind that 10x at 1000 is like looking at a target through irons or naked eye at 100. For .223, 10x is about at the outside.
Re: what is to much?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcwarrior87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK I need a little incite</div></div>To much, or not to much, that appears to be the question.
OK, I'll incite you 
:
Of course, it depends on what you want to use it for, but a fixed 10x is fine for most things - from IPSC movers at 100 to prairie dogs at 1000. I had a 10x Super Sniper on my AR, used it for both, and never needed more magnification.
However, for static range work I mounted a 5.5-22x NF on the same rifle. It is nice to have the increased magnification when I need it, like to read the suit on the playing cards during matches, or just to see my bullet holes at 300.
And if you take your .223 to 1200, For ELR you will need LESS magnification than you think you do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcwarrior87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK I need a little incite</div></div>To much, or not to much, that appears to be the question.
Of course, it depends on what you want to use it for, but a fixed 10x is fine for most things - from IPSC movers at 100 to prairie dogs at 1000. I had a 10x Super Sniper on my AR, used it for both, and never needed more magnification.
However, for static range work I mounted a 5.5-22x NF on the same rifle. It is nice to have the increased magnification when I need it, like to read the suit on the playing cards during matches, or just to see my bullet holes at 300.
And if you take your .223 to 1200, For ELR you will need LESS magnification than you think you do.
Re: what is to much?
OK then, because we are talking all rounds not just the .223, why is there the really high magnification scopes, what does it help with, Does more magnification mean it will help(i know shooter is a big part of it) you shoot tighter groups? Do you just ask the question how small of a thing am I going to be shooting and pick a scope that can see it and call it good?
OK then, because we are talking all rounds not just the .223, why is there the really high magnification scopes, what does it help with, Does more magnification mean it will help(i know shooter is a big part of it) you shoot tighter groups? Do you just ask the question how small of a thing am I going to be shooting and pick a scope that can see it and call it good?
Re: what is to much?
The real high magnification scopes are typically used by benchrest and fclass guys. Assuming a clear day with low mirage it can be advantagous but its also a crutch for less experienced shooters. What a lot of the posts were trying to tell you is you really don't need an upclose crystal clear image of the target to be dead on accurate and consistant. And as it was pointed out with iron sights the target is blurry by design. A lot of guys will use the higher end of the magnification more as a spotting scope application or to view field conditions. Wind and mirage movement. But if you are not familiar with mirage, at those real high magnifications sometimes just over 15x when its really bad, it will completly obscure the target, forcing you to dial back the magnification. My favorite scope right now is my nightforce 5.5-22. But sometimes I do find it too heavy and I'm usually not dialed all the way up to 22X. Just be real honest with yourself as to what type of shooting your going to do. Keep in mind that 5.5-22 is used on 50bmg's out past 2000yards. I'm usually shooting 500yds or less so yes it can easily be said its too much scope. Some will also say if your a new shooter definitly go with a fixed power. You won't waste time playing with paralex typically nor magnification and you will focus on the target.
The real high magnification scopes are typically used by benchrest and fclass guys. Assuming a clear day with low mirage it can be advantagous but its also a crutch for less experienced shooters. What a lot of the posts were trying to tell you is you really don't need an upclose crystal clear image of the target to be dead on accurate and consistant. And as it was pointed out with iron sights the target is blurry by design. A lot of guys will use the higher end of the magnification more as a spotting scope application or to view field conditions. Wind and mirage movement. But if you are not familiar with mirage, at those real high magnifications sometimes just over 15x when its really bad, it will completly obscure the target, forcing you to dial back the magnification. My favorite scope right now is my nightforce 5.5-22. But sometimes I do find it too heavy and I'm usually not dialed all the way up to 22X. Just be real honest with yourself as to what type of shooting your going to do. Keep in mind that 5.5-22 is used on 50bmg's out past 2000yards. I'm usually shooting 500yds or less so yes it can easily be said its too much scope. Some will also say if your a new shooter definitly go with a fixed power. You won't waste time playing with paralex typically nor magnification and you will focus on the target.
Re: what is to much?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcwarrior87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does more magnification mean it will help(i know shooter is a big part of it) you shoot tighter groups?</div></div>Not necessarily.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....you really don't need an....crystal clear image of the target to be dead on accurate and consistant.</div></div>Actually, your target does need to be in focus.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And as it was pointed out with iron sights the target is blurry by design.</div></div>Nope, the target is blurry because you are not using an optic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of guys will use the higher end of the magnification more as a spotting scope application or to view field conditions. Wind and mirage movement.</div></div> One uses focus to check mirage.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... go with a fixed power. You won't waste time playing with paralex typically nor magnification and you will focus on the target.</div></div>Fixed power scopes have parallax adjustments that need to be used.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcwarrior87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does more magnification mean it will help(i know shooter is a big part of it) you shoot tighter groups?</div></div>Not necessarily.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....you really don't need an....crystal clear image of the target to be dead on accurate and consistant.</div></div>Actually, your target does need to be in focus.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And as it was pointed out with iron sights the target is blurry by design.</div></div>Nope, the target is blurry because you are not using an optic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A lot of guys will use the higher end of the magnification more as a spotting scope application or to view field conditions. Wind and mirage movement.</div></div> One uses focus to check mirage.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... go with a fixed power. You won't waste time playing with paralex typically nor magnification and you will focus on the target.</div></div>Fixed power scopes have parallax adjustments that need to be used.
Re: what is to much?
+1 for rjroberts comment. That is one of the easiest ways to define needed/wanted magnification.
Good luck
+1 for rjroberts comment. That is one of the easiest ways to define needed/wanted magnification.
Good luck
Re: what is to much?
Thanks Lonewolf that was a good read!
Thanks Lonewolf that was a good read!
Re: what is to much?
No Problem.
No Problem.
Re: what is to much?
It all depends on what you are shooting.
8-32 is what I like for long range. I can wind back or up to suit conditions.
6-24 on a smaller or lighter gun.
More mag means I have more options. I can aim off to a fixed point if conditions are not settled. I can wind up or down for lights and mirage. I can call shots and SEE where it went without a spotter.
There are reasons why target guys use more power and not less. Those reasons are the same for all long distance shooting.
If you want a lighter gun or want less power then run it but running more gives you options you don't have with lower powers.
.223's make 1k without issues IF your twist, projectile and barrel length are up to it. It's not that far behind .308. It's not a big deal
It all depends on what you are shooting.
8-32 is what I like for long range. I can wind back or up to suit conditions.
6-24 on a smaller or lighter gun.
More mag means I have more options. I can aim off to a fixed point if conditions are not settled. I can wind up or down for lights and mirage. I can call shots and SEE where it went without a spotter.
There are reasons why target guys use more power and not less. Those reasons are the same for all long distance shooting.
If you want a lighter gun or want less power then run it but running more gives you options you don't have with lower powers.
.223's make 1k without issues IF your twist, projectile and barrel length are up to it. It's not that far behind .308. It's not a big deal
Re: what is to much?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are reasons why target guys use more power and not less.</div></div>Agree.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those reasons are the same for all long distance shooting.</div></div>Disagree.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are reasons why target guys use more power and not less.</div></div>Agree.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those reasons are the same for all long distance shooting.</div></div>Disagree.
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