im wanting to see what kind of ES numbers some of you guys are seeing, the newest load i worked up my lowest ES was 43, is this acceptable? seems kind of high but it could have been conditions or chronograph as well....
what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
- Thread starter huntinggamo
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Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
I usually get around the 20fps range. Works fine for me. Haven't found a reason to waste tons of time trying to get single digits.
43fps is a little higher than I would like. What load is it?
I usually get around the 20fps range. Works fine for me. Haven't found a reason to waste tons of time trying to get single digits.
43fps is a little higher than I would like. What load is it?
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
Yeh thats pretty out there.
There are guys out there that get their ES as a single digit... I think the last time I checked my ES way very low, under 10fps/
Check your chrony first as it could just be that its reading bad.
You will find that a large ES will show up at longer ranges by a large spread in the vertical plane, ie. you have inconsitent bullet drop. If your bullets are all landing in the same vertical plane but your chrony is showing wild numbers then I would be pointing my finger at the chrony.
Yeh thats pretty out there.
There are guys out there that get their ES as a single digit... I think the last time I checked my ES way very low, under 10fps/
Check your chrony first as it could just be that its reading bad.
You will find that a large ES will show up at longer ranges by a large spread in the vertical plane, ie. you have inconsitent bullet drop. If your bullets are all landing in the same vertical plane but your chrony is showing wild numbers then I would be pointing my finger at the chrony.
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
its, h4350 with 142 smk's in a .260. im thinking it may have been the chrono, had quickly changing weather and did not even think about it but the light changed alot as well....ill double check it next nice day we get
its, h4350 with 142 smk's in a .260. im thinking it may have been the chrono, had quickly changing weather and did not even think about it but the light changed alot as well....ill double check it next nice day we get
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
I always thought it depended on what cartride you were shooting? My .204 I can keep it in the low single digits but with my 338L I couldn't get it under 35fps?
I always thought it depended on what cartride you were shooting? My .204 I can keep it in the low single digits but with my 338L I couldn't get it under 35fps?
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
My loads are usually +/-5 with 10 higher or lower as the outlier, so I guess that would mean ~20 as an extreme spread. That's hand thrown with varget, AA2230 223 loads aren't nearly as consistent.
My loads are usually +/-5 with 10 higher or lower as the outlier, so I guess that would mean ~20 as an extreme spread. That's hand thrown with varget, AA2230 223 loads aren't nearly as consistent.
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
Have a good chronograph before changing loads to improve your numbers (esp if they are shooting well).
I sold my Chrony after I was getting info from it that my 308 and 7-08 loads were all over the place numbers-wise. Shot over an Oehler at our sheriff's office range and 308 was ES/32 and 7-08 was ES/18
Have a good chronograph before changing loads to improve your numbers (esp if they are shooting well).
I sold my Chrony after I was getting info from it that my 308 and 7-08 loads were all over the place numbers-wise. Shot over an Oehler at our sheriff's office range and 308 was ES/32 and 7-08 was ES/18
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
years ago I knew a Major who was over the loading room at Quantico and he told me their requirements for the handloads were 10 or less SD.
I also know in those days (20 years ago) they internally neck reamed their 308 ammo which I suspect was to remove the mouth lacquer residue when they pulled the 173s to reload them with 168s.
I had a good friend who was on the Brit 300 Meter team and he would visit with me and shoot before going on to Perry. I saw him load his stuff on my equipment and he was getting SD 3 and 4.
years ago I knew a Major who was over the loading room at Quantico and he told me their requirements for the handloads were 10 or less SD.
I also know in those days (20 years ago) they internally neck reamed their 308 ammo which I suspect was to remove the mouth lacquer residue when they pulled the 173s to reload them with 168s.
I had a good friend who was on the Brit 300 Meter team and he would visit with me and shoot before going on to Perry. I saw him load his stuff on my equipment and he was getting SD 3 and 4.
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
Extreme spread is not a very useful figure of merit, except to perhaps disqualify a very bad load. To understand why, read this:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/statistics-for-rifle-shooters.html
Extreme spread is not a very useful figure of merit, except to perhaps disqualify a very bad load. To understand why, read this:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/statistics-for-rifle-shooters.html
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
The finest shooting I ever saw was done by John Komarsarik (spelling) from New Hampshire about 1980 we were squadded together at Perry for a 600 yard string.
He fired a 22 shot string and never touched his sights for wind and it drifted in and out of X ring. We went down to the pits immediately and I took a Coke can and placed it horizontally on the group he had fired. The can covered 21 of the 22 shots so he was holding under 2.5" (just measured a can) elevation from the sling position.
He said Audette had loaded the ammo and built the rifle and he did not know anything.
100 fps extreme spread will give you about 40" of elevation problems at 1000 yards so just to hit ten ring you need no more than 50 and X ring about 25 fps assuming you have absolutely perfect hold which no one has. So I am figuring if you want be in there you need no more than 12 fps ES.
I saw a 1000 yard National Record Target shot by a Marine with 200-17x at Perry many years ago. It had been removed from carrier and laid aside for him. He had 2 line 10s at 12 and one line 10 at six o'clock. He used the whole X ring in doing so as I remember and the whole ten ring.
The finest shooting I ever saw was done by John Komarsarik (spelling) from New Hampshire about 1980 we were squadded together at Perry for a 600 yard string.
He fired a 22 shot string and never touched his sights for wind and it drifted in and out of X ring. We went down to the pits immediately and I took a Coke can and placed it horizontally on the group he had fired. The can covered 21 of the 22 shots so he was holding under 2.5" (just measured a can) elevation from the sling position.
He said Audette had loaded the ammo and built the rifle and he did not know anything.
100 fps extreme spread will give you about 40" of elevation problems at 1000 yards so just to hit ten ring you need no more than 50 and X ring about 25 fps assuming you have absolutely perfect hold which no one has. So I am figuring if you want be in there you need no more than 12 fps ES.
I saw a 1000 yard National Record Target shot by a Marine with 200-17x at Perry many years ago. It had been removed from carrier and laid aside for him. He had 2 line 10s at 12 and one line 10 at six o'clock. He used the whole X ring in doing so as I remember and the whole ten ring.
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Extreme spread is not a very useful figure of merit, except to perhaps disqualify a very bad load. To understand why, read this:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/statistics-for-rifle-shooters.html
</div></div>
That was an interesting read thanks Lindy.
One of the reasons I chose to build around the Creedmoor round was the fact no load development was needed.
The factory load shoots good,1/3 MOA @100m/3/4MOA@ 1,000m just under 10mil of dial to get to 1,000m from a 100m zero.
10 rounds passed over a Oehler chronograph netted a ES of 15 and a SD of 5.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Extreme spread is not a very useful figure of merit, except to perhaps disqualify a very bad load. To understand why, read this:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/statistics-for-rifle-shooters.html
</div></div>
That was an interesting read thanks Lindy.
One of the reasons I chose to build around the Creedmoor round was the fact no load development was needed.
The factory load shoots good,1/3 MOA @100m/3/4MOA@ 1,000m just under 10mil of dial to get to 1,000m from a 100m zero.
10 rounds passed over a Oehler chronograph netted a ES of 15 and a SD of 5.
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
Lindy's reference beat me to it. Here's my take on the topic from a couple months back.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...082#Post2046082
Lindy's reference beat me to it. Here's my take on the topic from a couple months back.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...082#Post2046082
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
I chrono'd 10 rounds of 168gr FGGM from my AR10-T, 20"bbl:
The average velocity was 2533fps; extreme spread 101; and SD was 30.
Edit: I must have written the ES down wrong on the box that I checked for this post. I reviewed the chrono data and the Velocity is right but SD is about 19 and ES is about 30fps for 4, 5shot groups
I chrono'd 10 rounds of 168gr FGGM from my AR10-T, 20"bbl:
The average velocity was 2533fps; extreme spread 101; and SD was 30.
Edit: I must have written the ES down wrong on the box that I checked for this post. I reviewed the chrono data and the Velocity is right but SD is about 19 and ES is about 30fps for 4, 5shot groups
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Extreme spread is not a very useful figure of merit, except to perhaps disqualify a very bad load. To understand why, read this:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/statistics-for-rifle-shooters.html
</div></div>
Was that the short answer Lindy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Extreme spread is not a very useful figure of merit, except to perhaps disqualify a very bad load. To understand why, read this:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/07/statistics-for-rifle-shooters.html
</div></div>
Was that the short answer Lindy?
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
The first sentence was the short answer. The document was the long answer.
The first sentence was the short answer. The document was the long answer.
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
I have not read Lindy's post YET. But I agree, ES doesn't help much. I'm happy with a AD in the single digits. But I'm known as being pretty anal at work too! LOL!
A random sample ( 6 rounds pulled at various places in 2 different boxes) yielded an AD of 3.8 fps.
I have not read Lindy's post YET. But I agree, ES doesn't help much. I'm happy with a AD in the single digits. But I'm known as being pretty anal at work too! LOL!
A random sample ( 6 rounds pulled at various places in 2 different boxes) yielded an AD of 3.8 fps.
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
Lindy, are you a Master Black Belt or a champion? I see Ed Demming all over that Blog! LOL! If you want to underrstand statictics an how to apply it to load development Lindys Blog post is spot on!
Lindy, are you a Master Black Belt or a champion? I see Ed Demming all over that Blog! LOL! If you want to underrstand statictics an how to apply it to load development Lindys Blog post is spot on!
Re: what kind of ES #'s do you typically see?
Chrono was a CED Millenium used with infrared screens.
Chrono was a CED Millenium used with infrared screens.
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