What makes a "custom" rifle?

[turbo54]

I shoot a local match series where we shoot at 200, 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards. It's divided into "factory" and "custom" class.

This year, I've been using my TRG42 in 338 in the factory class. Today, there was some argument over whether or not my rifle is "factory" or not, because it wears a Sako muzzlebrake. The argument is "it didn't come out of the box with the brake on it".

I would argue most guys' rifles don't come out of the box with a scope on them, so according to the same logic, adding a scope would make it "custom".

Seems to me that in both cases (brake vs scope), putting on the "aftermarket" device is merely completing the design intent of the rifle, therefore remaining factory.

What do y'all think?

 

[cypriss32]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

Its a muzzle brake....... If it came from the factory with the factory TUBE (barrel) its FACTORY. I dont care about stock, scope, brake, mag system.
Factory tube = Factory gun! KISS

 

[Diablo]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?


Have any of them added slings on their rifle? Maybe a bipod? Maybe a buttpad, or a stockpack to provide a little higher cheekrest?

Seems like if the barrel, action, stock, and trigger are factory, then it's factory, not custom.

 

[turbo54]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Diablo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Have any of them added slings on their rifle? Maybe a bipod? Maybe a buttpad, or a stockpack to provide a little higher cheekrest?

</div></div>

Of course they have. That's my point. NO ONE is fielding a rifle literally "out of the box".

Custom to me means gunsmith-oriented accurizing work including truing, barrels, bedding (perhaps). Ergonomic improvements like triggers, stocks, brakes etc etc does not make a custom rifle.

 

[turbo54]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

I might add that I'm destroying the competition in factory class with this rifle. It would be a non-issue if I was sucking hind-tit.

That said, the rifle IS literally factory, with the Sako brake stuck on. Rifle shoots like a fucking house on fire if you drive it right.

Still, seems unfair to class it with the customs just because it shoots as nice as the customs.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot a local match series where we shoot at 200, 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards. It's divided into "factory" and "custom" class.</div></div>

The match director needs to set the rules on what changes can be made to the rifle in each class.

Very few rifles show up at rifle competitions exactly the way they were when they left the factory. How much deviation is allowed is an administrative manner.

I could argue that if that rifle was not available with the muzzle brake already installed from the factory then it would need to shoot in the "custom" class. However if it's lining up against a bunch of AI's that have braked barrels....does it really matter?

 

[turbo54]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The match director needs to set the rules on what changes can be made to the rifle in each class.

Very few rifles show up at rifle competitions exactly the way they were when they left the factory. How much deviation is allowed is an administrative manner.

I could argue that if that rifle was not available with the muzzle brake already installed from the factory then it would need to shoot in the "custom" class. However if it's lining up against a bunch of AI's that have braked barrels....does it really matter?
</div></div>

Totally agree it's up to the match director!

However, if the rule is "if it wasn't on the rifle when it came out of the box, then it's custom", I argue you can't fit/install a scope to the rifle without it becoming custom.

Agree?

 

[Pusher591]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

Muzzle brakes are not intended to increase/decrease accuracy, even in some very rare cases may have helped accuracy but that's rare.

To me the scope argument is very valid. What will they argue next, "oh you have an S&B which has better glass then my Leupold or Nightforce so your rifle is going to be more accurate because you can see the target better".

Factory action, unaltered and factory tube, it's FACTORY with or without a muzzle brake.

 

[turbo54]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

After more thought, it's still up to the match director, whatever rules will be in place....however arbitrary they are. He IS the director.

So...

Sako TRG42s with muzzle brakes are custom.
Remingtons may be trued and remain factory.
Savages may have aftermarket pre fit barrels and remain factory, but not if it has an accutrigger....

And so on and so on.

Guess I just tend to see things black and white.

 

[tipper]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

Well did you win or lose the argument?

 

[turbo54]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tipper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well did you win or lose the argument? </div></div>

The argument is to be continued...

Seemed like everyone but the match director thought the brake was G2G for factory.

 

[excess]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

I don't know much about the TRG. Did you have to thead the muzzle for the brake, or did it come from the factory threaded?

I might argue that it's not factory if you had to do machine work to get the brake on.

 

[turbo54]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know much about the TRG. Did you have to thead the muzzle for the brake, or did it come from the factory threaded?

I might argue that it's not factory if you had to do machine work to get the brake on. </div></div>

They come threaded, with thread protector, ready to roll for the Sako brake.

I think it comes down to accurizing work versus ergonomics work that defines "custom". Sure, ergo enhancements like stocks and brakes and triggers improve accuracy, but only so far as how the driver interacts with the machine.

Barrels, receiver work, crowning, chambers improve the interaction of cartridge to machine, and the bullet and machine.

 

[excess]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

Hmm, sounds factory to me then.

But your are right, nobody would be bitching if you were just making big holes in the berm with that 338.

 

[cypriss32]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

Everything you all said is bullshit. A factory tubed barred action is a factory gun. I dont care about stocks, brakes, scope bases, DM systems. Keep it simple. If it came with a accu trigger its factory. If it came with a X mark its factory......... Simple guys, you keep making shit harder then it has to.

 

[Cacciatore]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I might add that I'm destroying the competition in factory class with this rifle. It would be a non-issue if I was sucking hind-tit. </div></div>

Your competitors are just pissed because you a crushing their sorry asses.

 

[long-shot]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

I always thought "Custom" meant we paid more for similar results!

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
However, if the rule is "if it wasn't on the rifle when it came out of the box, then it's custom", I argue you can't fit/install a scope to the rifle without it becoming custom.</div></div>

It is universally accepted that a rifle needs a sighting system and if not addressed in the rules, then the sighting system is up to the shooter.

However if the rules stated that the rest of the system must be used in the manner that it came out of the box, then unless otherwise specifically stated, no other equipment may be added to the system.

I think it's pretty clear, but if others are being allowed to replace barrels and true receivers, then it's a pretty unfair rulebook.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Muzzle brakes are not intended to increase/decrease accuracy, even in some very rare cases may have helped accuracy but that's rare.</div></div>

While technically correct, if a muzzle brake didn't help at all we wouldn't be using them in competition.

The reality is they are an aid, and as such are addressed in the rules of many forms of rifle competition.

 

[AtOne]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

Factory barrel, factory brake= factory rifle in my book.

BUT...

I think personally if your "crushing" the competition in the Factory category then I'd move to the custom one just to give them a run for their money with your factory gun

 

[jrgfox]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

The guys usually bitching and whining at matches are usually the guys jealous of other peoples gear and pissed they don't have the cool shit. Or they just hate life and should just fucking leave. At least this has been my experience. But I must say this is not the norm. Almost everyone I have met in this sport is super helpful and will go out of their way to help another shooter learn. Hell, Ive had complete strangers lend me a rifle to shoot a stage.

In any case, this should of been something that was clearly outlined and observed by all shooters within that class. I don't think something like this should be a "discussion" issue at a match. It's clearly either a go or a no go.

 

[Gunny81]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrgfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guys usually bitching and whining at matches are usually the guys jealous of other peoples gear and pissed they don't have the cool shit. Or they just hate life and should just fucking leave. At least this has been my experience. But I must say this is not the norm. Almost everyone I have met in this sport is super helpful and will go out of their way to help another shooter learn. Hell, Ive had complete strangers lend me a rifle to shoot a stage.

In any case, this should of been something that was clearly outlined and observed by all shooters within that class. I don't think something like this should be a "discussion" issue at a match. It's clearly either a go or a no go. </div></div>
1
This is the same shit I've run into in matches out to 1k with a couple guns in the past. Just because they use NF, USO, OR PREM, doesn't mean they deserve to. It just means they had more coin than you did at the time. I've done just fine out to 1k with factory varmint rigs and a $200 vortex scope.

 

[Mike0341]

Re: What makes a "custom" rifle?

dang. i have a "custom" spray paint job on my AAC. now I'm stuck shooting in the "custom" class.

i agree with others who have stated that custom should be those that use non factory tubes with non factory actions. so rifles using a Remmy action thats been trued compete with the guys that have a "custom" action build.

what if you recrowned your barrel on a stock Savage? would that make it custom?

the rules should be better outlined in whatever category you shoot in or it takes the fun out of it. thats why I'm trying to find something more tactical oriented so that all rifles are welcome