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Fieldcraft What Makes a Sniper

Slafav

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2011
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Corpus Christi, TX
What is it that makes a "Sniper" just that? The easiest answer would be the military school, but is that really it? What moves someone from a, "hobbiest" or, "marksman" to the realm of a sniper? Unfortunately I am unable to attend the actually sniper school (Officer Track), so will I never achieve the level of a sniper? If you feel like breaking out the pop corn and opening fire, feel free to delete the thread.
grin.gif
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

Well, what makes a sniper in the Marines is 300 PFT scores...well that's what it seems like.

Some Marines that are in charge of a buch of Marine some how think running fast is better than great marksmanship.. Or at least my LT was like that.

I got denied for going to DM school because another marine had a faster run time that I did. He was a marksman, and I was an expert. I also have experience with the scope on the Mk12s.
When the Marine failed DM school, my Plt Sgt influenced the LT to reconsider me going to DM school.

Yeah yeah, DM school is different that going snipers... But whatever. Just run fast I guess.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

There were a lot of bad@$$ Russian women who were great snipers without attending any specific US military school, so it isn't that.

In police work, sometimes a cop with a hunting rifle and no training is called a sniper, and sometimes it takes real training, equipment, selection, etc. to be a sniper.

I don't think there is any clear litmus test or standard to be a "sniper" but I hope most here on the Hide would agree that a few criteria should go together before calling yourself a sniper:

Training (above and beyond those who aren't snipers)
Equipment (accurate rifle and click adjustable scope for starters)
Employment (do you actually DO "sniping" at living humans= in rare cases, this could include civilian "freedom fighters", but until the conflict arises, they are just prepared marksmen).
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

Not being a sniper or military, the more I learn the more sniping is about getting in, getting out, getting intel and being smart; less about pulling the trigger.

Having said that, this subforum would be the most important one on the board.

But that's just one man's opinion.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

This is a short summary of some of the qualities of a good sniper:
- Patience
- Independence
- Hunting experience
- Cleverness
- Ability to adapt to different situations
- Make decisions on his own
- Keen observation skills
- Field craft skills and knowing how to use all types of camouflage effectively
- Stealth
- Awareness
- Knowledge of ballistics
- Marksmanship
- Ability to keep learning
- Discipline
- Meticulous preparation
- Attention to detail
- Understanding his enemy
- Exploiting his enemies weaknesses
- Knowing when to shoot and when not too.
- Record and data keeping skills
- Evasion skills
- Stay still for long hours
- and yes I googled this
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

As in any profession, about two percent really know what they are doing. The rest are just winging it.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rayusmc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And you know this how? </div></div>Because I see those who are insecure in their abilities get offended quickly.

Well, that, and I made the mistake of leaving my wallet on the table when I went to the bathroom during the bar exam. Then a strange thing happened: Half of the lawyers who passed that day received the bottom half of the scores.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

DamnifIknow.

Whatever it is, the only thing I know for sure about it is that I'm not one, and I suspect that most of the folks at this site aren't either. Trust me, even here, that's no hangin' offense. I'm a marksman, or at least I keep trying to be.

I consider it, whatever it is, to be a profession. It chooses you, not otherwise.

It requires a professional commitment to purpose; and ethically and morally requires an official designation and close supervision. Developing and maintaining a professional skill set is a core obligation. Refined tools help, but a professional can do a workmanlike job regardless of the quality of the tools they are given. The quality of the tools is simply a definition of effective range; the job gets done regardless.

Beyond that, your guess is at least as good as mine.

Greg
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

alot if it is common sense i think its about apdating to changes on the battle field reacting quickly without risking ones life or team orther wise your just a suicide shooter, all kinds of things you have to look it first rnd hit, impact of the target to the enemy, stleath is our blanket the ability to remain undetected, so alot factors weight in my may two cent
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slafav</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Unfortunately I am unable to attend the actually sniper school (Officer Track), so will I never achieve the level of a sniper? </div></div>
And, you want to be one because________________________?

To fill the slot it's about Thinking first, Patience second, and Winning last. If you think it threw long term first, the only winning move is not to slot up in the first place.

Be carefull what you wish for,...as when perception meets reality, trying to game the difference won't work any longer. YMMV
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

All the above plus maturity, professionalism, and the ability to perform alone and unafraid forward of friendly lines. Congrats for being on the "Officer Track", knowing you trained hard, took the fight to the enemy and brought everyone home is far more important than a certificate. Aways remember leadership is a contact sport. Learn, talk to the Snipers, shoot/train with them, understand how to employ them and take care of them. Check to see if the Sniper Employment Officers Course is still available, look it up.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

I think if you talk about the title "Sniper", then you have to have a piece of paper from Mil. School saying that you are one. If you want to practice the skills of a "sniper", then you can do all you want, but you still are not a sniper, by title. Are there plenty of opportunistic marksman/woman praticing sniping? Yes.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dangedan87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, what makes a sniper in the Marines is 300 PFT scores...well that's what it seems like.

Some Marines that are in charge of a buch of Marine some how think running fast is better than great marksmanship.. Or at least my LT was like that.

I got denied for going to DM school because another marine had a faster run time that I did. He was a marksman, and I was an expert. I also have experience with the scope on the Mk12s.
When the Marine failed DM school, my Plt Sgt influenced the LT to reconsider me going to DM school.

Yeah yeah, DM school is different that going snipers... But whatever. Just run fast I guess. </div></div>

You can't outrun a bullet,.. that's what you should have told the LT.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

Snipers shoot people. Everybody else shoots paper.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

Depends if you are talking "good guy" or "bad guy", if it's a good guy he has to be bad ass, if it's a bad guy the media will label any 6 year old kid with a squirt gun a sniper.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Snipers shoot people. Everybody else shoots paper. </div></div>

that depends...when the term was coined they were shooting birds.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

First a mommy and daddy hug each other while naked. Then, after daddy pins mommy down for 30-40 seconds, he'll fall asleep. 9 months later the mommy will be bitching and moaning to the point the daddy will try to abandon her at this big building. Unfortunately she will find her way back home and bring a dream smasher with her. 16-17 years later, after much internet perusing, the child will be convinced they can shoot and take on the title "sniper". Then they start posting here.

That's how snipers are made.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First a mommy and daddy hug each other while naked. Then, after daddy pins mommy down for 30-40 seconds, he'll fall asleep. 9 months later the mommy will be bitching and moaning to the point the daddy will try to abandon her at this big building. Unfortunately she will find her way back home and bring a dream smasher with her. 16-17 years later, after much internet perusing, the child will be convinced they can shoot and take on the title "sniper". Then they start posting here.

That's how snipers are made. </div></div>

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

I'm fighting for a SEOC slot already. I was just curious what the general consensus was on who is a sniper and who isn't. I'm not concerned with a tab or title, but with proficient skills. It's just a matter of where someone can learn those skills if they don't have the opportunity to go to sniper school.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slafav</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just curious what the general consensus was on who is a sniper and who isn't.</div></div>I've met some snipers who are, and a lot of snipers who aren't.

I've never yet seen or attended a school that makes you something that you are not. But I know of many schools that give you a title written on an official-looking piece of parchment that allows you to call yourself something when you graduate.

I suppose it all depends on what is required by the people from whom you seek the recognition.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slafav</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm fighting for a SEOC slot already. I was just curious what the general consensus was on who is a sniper and who isn't. I'm not concerned with a tab or title, but with proficient skills. It's just a matter of where someone can learn those skills if they don't have the opportunity to go to sniper school. </div></div>
There is no general consensus, either you are or are not.

If your slotted either LE or Mil then you are, if your not slotted then you are not, plain an simple.

It matters little what you did in the past for whoever, if you are not right now today, then you are not.

I've known many that have had titles of some sort or the other. I've also found that those that worry over or preach their title are never any better than also ran's when it's time to walk the talk.


 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slafav</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm fighting for a SEOC slot already. I was just curious what the general consensus was on who is a sniper and who isn't. I'm not concerned with a tab or title, but with proficient skills. It's just a matter of where someone can learn those skills if they don't have the opportunity to go to sniper school. </div></div>

Hate to piss on your parade, but I had a friend who went mustang and got to the SEO course.

Guess what? That IS NOT what he is doing.

Consider it "A day shooting scoped rifles at the range."

His words. He now takes care of the logisitical(transportation) needs of his company.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 600 kills using a Sniper rifle on Call of Duty, am I a sniper now? </div></div>

Did you paint your real rifle?
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Snipers shoot people. </div></div>

To me, this would be an important part of the equation.

To me, only those who have or may have to engage human targets in service to country or community should ever have the right to begin to call themselves a Sniper. Beyond that I'll let the experts decide what training and documentation you must have to be a real Sniper....

 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

What kind of sniper do you want to be.

I don't think the DC Sniper went to school, nor did the dude in the Texas Towers.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

Blah! Blah! Blah!

Englishmen hunting birds in India called snipes.

Kill a snipe...you're a sniper. Had to do with being quiet and steathly to get close and kill the damn thing.

That's at least the folklore behind the definition.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

I'm going to say a Counter Sniper Scope pretty makes it a done deal.

(sarcastically, of course)

I am not a sniper but I am a helluva hunter, a good shot and feel at home in the wilderness. My hats off to those who conduct the craft for our country and for our safety.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Short-bus</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 600 kills using a Sniper rifle on Call of Duty, am I a sniper now? </div></div>

Did you paint your real rifle? </div></div>

Todd painted mine....does that count?
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Todd painted mine....does that count? </div></div>Only if it's large and in Multicam.
grin.gif
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YN*Dotte</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dangedan87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, what makes a sniper in the Marines is 300 PFT scores...well that's what it seems like.

Some Marines that are in charge of a buch of Marine some how think running fast is better than great marksmanship.. Or at least my LT was like that.

I got denied for going to DM school because another marine had a faster run time that I did. He was a marksman, and I was an expert. I also have experience with the scope on the Mk12s.
When the Marine failed DM school, my Plt Sgt influenced the LT to reconsider me going to DM school.

Yeah yeah, DM school is different that going snipers... But whatever. Just run fast I guess. </div></div>

You can't outrun a bullet,.. that's what you should have told the LT. </div></div>

Mr. miyagi said the best way to defend a punch is not be there. you dont have to outrun the bullet. just dont be there when it impacts.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

Another good way to tell the difference between "Sniper" and "Precision marksman" is to talk about your "sniper rifle" here. Once your hair grows back, you'll have a good idea of the difference
wink.gif
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

I would say your a "Sniper" when you graduate from a military school with the certificate that says you are. Then you become a "Real" sniper when you put down another human in combat.

Does that make you a better shot than someone on here?? Probably not. I am sure that there are many better marksman on here that shoot more than most snipers in the military do.

I have shot against USMC snipers and Army snipers in comps, beat most of them, but I wouldn't want to have them in the bush hunting me because thats where "Real" snipers are. Just my thoughts on it.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YN*Dotte</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dangedan87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, what makes a sniper in the Marines is 300 PFT scores...well that's what it seems like.

Some Marines that are in charge of a buch of Marine some how think running fast is better than great marksmanship.. Or at least my LT was like that.

I got denied for going to DM school because another marine had a faster run time that I did. He was a marksman, and I was an expert. I also have experience with the scope on the Mk12s.
When the Marine failed DM school, my Plt Sgt influenced the LT to reconsider me going to DM school.

Yeah yeah, DM school is different that going snipers... But whatever. Just run fast I guess. </div></div>

You can't outrun a bullet,.. that's what you should have told the LT. </div></div>

Mr. miyagi said the best way to defend a punch is not be there. you dont have to outrun the bullet. just dont be there when it impacts. </div></div>

Lol thats good advice
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First a mommy and daddy hug each other while naked. Then, after daddy pins mommy down for 30-40 seconds, he'll fall asleep. 9 months later the mommy will be bitching and moaning to the point the daddy will try to abandon her at this big building. Unfortunately she will find her way back home and bring a dream smasher with her. 16-17 years later, after much internet perusing, the child will be convinced they can shoot and take on the title "sniper". Then they start posting here.

That's how snipers are made. </div></div>

That was F-in classic, LMFAO
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

Funny thing: I know a sniper who actually did sniping. Never mentions it. I know it because his wife told me. He doesn't even like guns.

I knew another sniper who actually did sniping. Never mentions it. I know it because a post-mortem article recounted his South Pacific experience.

Hence, My experience has been you don't know the real ones. They aren't talking about it. So how would one know what it takes to be a sniper? All sounds pretty silly to me.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

....why was i not alerted?

the answer to the question....what makes a sniper is simple.....its the one with the gun that gets paid to do it.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of sniper do you want to be.

I don't think the DC Sniper went to school, nor did the dude in the Texas Towers. </div></div>

Not really fair to call the 2 knickleheads from DC "snipers." What was their longest shot? 60 yards or so? Come on. The media thinks every shooter with a scope is a sniper! Those 2 retards don't deserve the title, though they did make an excellent hide out of their vehicle, which is a characteristic of a sniper.

Now Whitman (TX) could be considered a sniper, in my opinion, though he never attended a formal sniper school. He was an ex Marine, who was one he'll of a shooter. He made shots on running targets (full value leads) at 400 yards with a fixed 4x scoped rifle. He knew how to lead and estimate range. He ran around the tower firing different rifles from a standing position (didn't just lay in the prone and shoot known ranges without elevating his heart rate). He, in my opinion, could be considered sniper.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: raptor99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say your a "Sniper" when you graduate from a military school with the certificate that says you are. Then you become a "Real" sniper when you put down another human in combat.

Does that make you a better shot than someone on here?? Probably not. I am sure that there are many better marksman on here that shoot more than most snipers in the military do.

I have shot against USMC snipers and Army snipers in comps, beat most of them, but I wouldn't want to have them in the bush hunting me because thats where "Real" snipers
are. Just my thoughts on it. </div></div>

You made some good points. Not every marksman is a sniper, but every sniper is a marksman. Fieldcraft, as well as other characteristics, are what set the sniper apart from the competition shooter.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slafav</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is it that makes a "Sniper" just that? The easiest answer would be the military school, but is that really it? What moves someone from a, "hobbiest" or, "marksman" to the realm of a sniper? Unfortunately I am unable to attend the actually sniper school (Officer Track), so will I never achieve the level of a sniper? If you feel like breaking out the pop corn and opening fire, feel free to delete the thread.
grin.gif
</div></div>

Don't know what you mean about achieving the "level" of sniper. You wouldnt even be a sniper if you merely attended the course. You can achieve the "level" (skill) of a sniper, but would not have the "title." I don't know why are are concerned about this. Get all the cool courses you can get that will teach you something about shooting, survival, and Fieldcraft and don't worry about a title. You could be a "marksman," which isn't a bad title. Try doing some long range shooting competitions........
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

WOW! i get to use this twice in two days:

SNIPER - (present definition) a person professionally and highly trained to observe, report findings, or to engage and eliminate specific targets of oppurtunity to gain a tactical advantage uses a wide array of tools to accomplish the assigned tasks, and generally uses a highly modified precision rifle (sniper rifle as it used by a sniper) to eliminate those specified targets, usually from a concealed or unknown position in order not to be comprimised.

sniper -(originally) a person that hunts for and is successful in harvesting the elusive above game bird. usually had to be concealed (by the use of special areas - enter the "hide"- or special clothing - enter the "gillie suit"- during the shot as snipe have excellent eyesight.

once common in scotland, a ghillie (the person themselelf) was a hired person (a proffesional hunter / guide that used unconventional tactics for success) used to catch poacher's on the royal's land. they used special clothing to be concealed or hide themselves from view (AKA ghillie suit), from the highly observant and skillful poachers. the poachers that had escaped capture from the ghillie also began to employ the ghillie's suits to remain stealthy as they had to evade detection both from the ghillie and the royalty's normal gaurdsmen as they poached the royalty's game.


snipe- –noun 1. any of several long-billed game birds of the genera Gallinago (Capella) and Limnocryptes, inhabiting marshy areas, as G. gallinago (common snipe), of Eurasia and North America, having barred and striped white, brown, and black plumage.
2. any of several other long-billed birds, as some sandpipers.

maybe a glossary of terms will help the newbies realize that(at least in my opinion) a definition of a "build" worth reading:

BUILD (noun or verb depending on usage)- A weapon, sporting arm, rifle, pistol, shotgun etc. (project) that has substaintial components added or enhanced that operate and are engineered in conjuncture with each other for the intended purpose of launching a projectile downrange and hitting a designated target with more consistancy / accuracy than a factory manufactured weapon, sporting arm, rifle, pistol shotgun etc., or exceeds the average accepted performance metrics of a factory manufactured weapon, sporting arm, rifle, pistol, shotgun, etc. or at a higher rate of speed in cycling rounds + accuracy than a factory manufactured weapon, sporting arm, rifle, pistol shotgun etc.
(in my opinion a build starts with a bare receiver or frame, then specialized components are added to achieve the above directives, and to achieve the below)....

LONG RANGE SHOOTING (verb?)- To accurately and consistantly hit a target with a projectile at a greater distance than is normally accepted by a majority for the performance parameters of any given weapon, sporting arm, rifle, pistol, shotgun, etc. whether it is "built" or not.

Example: A .45 cal 1911 pistol used at 10 yards to hit a target accurately and consistantly may be considered average distance. A .45 cal 1911 pistol used at 75 yards to hit a target accurately and consistantly would probably be considered long range shooting.

A .45 cal 1911 that shoots well at 10 yards, but is not good at all at 75 yards until components are added or enhanced and has acheived the goal of launching a projectile consistantly and accurately on a target should be considered a "build" to make a "precision firearm" for the intended purpose of "long range shooting"

(a scoped .308 rifle at 100 yards is almost always considered short range, however an open sighted 30/30 at 100 yards may be considered medium to long range)

PRECISION FIREARM (noun)- A weapon, sporting arm, rifle, pistol, shotgun, etc. that is used for the intended purpose of launching a projectile downrange and hitting a designated target with more consistancy / accuracy than a factory manufactured weapon, sporting arm, rifle, pistol shotgun etc., or exceeds the average accepted performance metrics of a factory manufactured weapon, sporting arm, rifle, pistol, shotgun, etc. Most precision firearms are "built" (see build) for objectives described above.

ACCURATE RIFLE (noun)- Any rifle that consistantly launches a projectile to a target with better results than what is considered by a majority average parameters for comparable rifles.(MOA and sub MOA)

SNIPER RIFLE (noun)- Any rifle that is used by a S N I P E R, otherwise, it's a precision firearm / rifle.



<span style="color: #FF0000">so technically, in the traditional sense, if you ever shot a snipe, your a sniper. of an "official" sense, if you passed and qualified any military or LE sniper qualification course and graduated sniper school, you are an official sniper that can sew a new tab on your uniform.</span>

otherwise it's just another word that's been bastardized for shock value in various medias or used by someone as an adjective to boost their own ego, or it's meaning has been twisted to the point that it depends on what point of view you are coming from to describe some unique actions taken of someone that has caused a particular event to happen (lee harvey oswald, dc sniper, etc.). a bell tower and a rifle is "good enough evidence" to fit the description.

some define a sniper simply as a person that takes the life of another using unconventional means or from a concealed location - whether or not they can extract successfully or not.

"sniper's shoot people" is only a partial truth as assassins, murderers, and serial killers do the same. while snipers DO POSSESS the skills and ability to nuetralize threats effectively in a "scientific" manner, snipers also skillfully and professionally observe and report troop movements, provide security / surveilance details, paint equipment and other targets with laser designators for other types of ordinance to neutralize targets, convey coordinates for direction of artilery and other types of fire - some true designated snipers never having to take a shot on another human in their entire tour - a murderer, serial killer or assassin rarely do the same.

a "game animal" that has been shot from a shooter in a prone position dressed in a straggly burlap outfit from a concealed location that one has inserted themselves into undetected by using a remington 700 with a big scope and a bipod from say, a longer distance that is traditionally shot from - does not a sniper make -perhaps it was just taken "sniper style" as the movies depict what a sniper is.

the butcher at the local meat market can't be in the same class as a surgeon, though they both use a form of knife.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not really fair to call the 2 knickleheads from DC "snipers." What was their longest shot? 60 yards or so? Come on. The media thinks every shooter with a scope is a sniper! Those 2 retards don't deserve the title, though they did make an excellent hide out of their vehicle, which is a characteristic of a sniper.</div></div>

OH I didn't know there was a distance requred for sniping, nor did I know bandits counldnt be snipers. Also I didn't know you had to attend a school.

Actually I disagree with all three points. I will say one shouldnt underestimate his enemy, civilian or military.

I'd recommend 'THEY SHOOT TO KILL..A psycho-surve of criminal sniping" by Ronand Tobias.

I used this very good text in my both my military and civilian LE Sniper schoold.
 
Re: What Makes a Sniper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not really fair to call the 2 knickleheads from DC "snipers." What was their longest shot? 60 yards or so? Come on. The media thinks every shooter with a scope is a sniper! Those 2 retards don't deserve the title, though they did make an excellent hide out of their vehicle, which is a characteristic of a sniper.</div></div>

OH I didn't know there was a distance requred for sniping, nor did I know bandits counldnt be snipers. Also I didn't know you had to attend a school.

Actually I disagree with all three points. I will say one shouldnt underestimate his enemy, civilian or military.

I'd recommend 'THEY SHOOT TO KILL..A psycho-surve of criminal sniping" by Ronand Tobias.

I used this very good text in my both my military and civilian LE Sniper schoold.</div></div>

Did I say that attending school was necessary to be called a "sniper?"

No, there is not a distance required for sniping. It was just thrown in to show that they did not have difficult shots and no formal training or skill was required to achieve their shots. There a thousands of deer hunters a year that make more difficult shots than they made and would you call every deer hunter a sniper? Calling Malvo and Muhammed snipers does nothing but insult the true professionals that earned the title. And yes, a "bandit" can be considered a sniper.

What does underestimating an enemy have to do with this thread? Disagree with what 3 points?

No thanks, I dont care to read your book.