• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

What Percentile of Shooters Can Shoot 1 MOA?

Airik Farley

Private
Minuteman
Mar 27, 2024
15
16
US
I'm new to shooting and certainly can't shoot anything close to sub MOA but I hope to someday (with lots of range time). It seems that most modern equipment can easily achieve this so it's really a measurement of the shooters capabilities right? That got me thinking though what percent of people can constantly shot sub MOA at 100 yards?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gon06
Depends,

Prone, across the course, positional, etc...

Most people are not 1 MOA shooters beyond a few cherry picked groups off a bench or prone, normal you see between 1.25" and 3", and you go even further to a Kraft Drill the average person shoots 3MOA to 4MOA

But group shooting is a lesson in frustration, we are not group shooting people here, that is F Class and Benchrest, they shoot subMOA or go home embarrassed.

Once you learn a thing or two, SubMOA is easier
 
I can't speak for the percentile of shooters that can consistently shoot a rifle into a sub MOA group in optimal conditions, with optimal equipment, with optimal loads. Spend any time at a public range and it will change your opinion on the best distance for deer hunting. My PRS will consistently print a .5 MOA group which is far and beyond what PRS requires. Take an average shooter who doesn't train for precision, and they will print a 1-3 inch group with the same rifle.
 
Maybe the question has to framed up a little.

Can I shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards?… Absolutely. Many here can and do with ease.

Can I Clean 1 MOA steel targets, every hundred yards from 300 to 1000? That’s a little harder…
 
I'm new to shooting and certainly can't shoot anything close to sub MOA but I hope to someday (with lots of range time). It seems that most modern equipment can easily achieve this so it's really a measurement of the shooters capabilities right? That got me thinking though what percent of people can constantly shot sub MOA at 100 yards?
I think you might be able to go as low as 10% or fewer if you make the sample include all rifle shooters. There’s a lot of factors in play. Hand @Lowlight (or any of us) a 300 winmag and unlimited ammo, known to shoot sub 1 MOA, and he will stack rounds until he gets fatigued to the point at which he lets something slip and sends one outside an inch. Does that mean he does or does not meet your criteria? You give me my match rifle and ammo and I will shoot under 1 MOA, from a bench or prone or from a stable standing barricade, until the barrel burns out. Now it’s going to have to be cleaned at some point. Do I get an allowance for the first shot after cleaning or am I expected to know where that shot goes, compensate, and keep it in the 1” circle? Are we doing scope or open sights? Bolt or gas gun? Hand loads or factory? Even at 100 yards, it’s a complicated question that could have answers ranging from somewhere near 100% to somewhere near 0% depending on a whole slew of factors. Out beyond 100, the results get exponentially worse.
 
Keep in mind when you say “most modern equipment can do this”…. A lot of guys here are running high end custom rifles. Of course these rifles can do it….. an iron sight marlin 45-70 however…. Probably won’t do it

Since you’re new to shooting, focus on proper fundamentals with what you have now. Constant sub MOA at 100 yards is a lot different than constant sub MOA at 1000 yards
 
  • Like
Reactions: Enough Said
Depends,

Prone, across the course, positional, etc...

Most people are not 1 MOA shooters beyond a few cherry picked groups off a bench or prone, normal you see between 1.25" and 3", and you go even further to a Kraft Drill the average person shoots 3MOA to 4MOA

But group shooting is a lesson in frustration, we are not group shooting people here, that is F Class and Benchrest, they shoot subMOA or go home embarrassed.

Once you learn a thing or two, SubMOA is easier
I shoot from a bench so I was thinking that, I figured that would be one of the easier positions to shoot from, is it not?
 
  • Like
Reactions: diverdon
I think you might be able to go as low as 10% or fewer if you make the sample include all rifle shooters. There’s a lot of factors in play. Hand @Lowlight (or any of us) a 300 winmag and unlimited ammo, known to shoot sub 1 MOA, and he will stack rounds until he gets fatigued to the point at which he lets something slip and sends one outside an inch. Does that mean he does or does not meet your criteria? You give me my match rifle and ammo and I will shoot under 1 MOA, from a bench or prone or from a stable standing barricade, until the barrel burns out. Now it’s going to have to be cleaned at some point. Do I get an allowance for the first shot after cleaning or am I expected to know where that shot goes, compensate, and keep it in the 1” circle? Are we doing scope or open sights? Bolt or gas gun? Hand loads or factory? Even at 100 yards, it’s a complicated question that could have answers ranging from somewhere near 100% to somewhere near 0% depending on a whole slew of factors. Out beyond 100, the results get exponentially worse.
Ahh I didn't think about those framings. I never intended or believed anybody would shoot sub MOA 100% of the time. I was more asking how many people can go to the range and print a sub MOA group from 100y more often than not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OREGUN
Very few can consistently.

Most people aren't honest enough to admit that they can't do it.

It's an easy way to make money off your buddies though, because everyone will swear they can. Bet them even money that they can't lay down right now with whatever rifle they want and shoot a 3 shot sub moa group. You'll win 95% of the time.

Just don't slip up and offer that to me, I'll take your money..😂😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mcrider55
Keep in mind when you say “most modern equipment can do this”…. A lot of guys here are running high end custom rifles. Of course these rifles can do it….. an iron sight marlin 45-70 however…. Probably won’t do it

Since you’re new to shooting, focus on proper fundamentals with what you have now. Constant sub MOA at 100 yards is a lot different than constant sub MOA at 1000 yards
Yup fundamentals are my only focus at the moment, I was more curious if it's something that most people who dedicate themselves to fundamentals can do more often than not or if it's a more notable achievement than just using fundamentals.
 
Yup fundamentals are my only focus at the moment, I was more curious if it's something that most people who dedicate themselves to fundamentals can do more often than not or if it's a more notable achievement than just using fundamentals.
I think a person who has had some instruction and practice could shoot sub MOA, assuming a quality rifle system (rifle, scope, ammo), “most” of the time from prone or a bench. I do not consider a 1” group to be noteworthy for that person. It should be the rule not the exception.

When you are starting out, get some instruction from someone like @Lowlight if you can. Focus on executing the fundamentals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Airik Farley
I think a person who has had some instruction and practice could shoot sub MOA, assuming a quality rifle system (rifle, scope, ammo), “most” of the time from prone or a bench. I do not consider a 1” group to be noteworthy for that person. It should be the rule not the exception.

When you are starting out, get some instruction from someone like @Lowlight if you can. Focus on executing the fundamentals.
That was what I was thinking, thanks! It sounds like basically sub-MOA would be the point where you have learned the basic fundamentals and are ready to start really learning how to shot and refine your fundamentals.
 
That was what I was thinking, thanks! It sounds like basically sub-MOA would be the point where you have learned the basic fundamentals and are ready to start really learning how to shot and refine your fundamentals.
It’s certainly a good place to start. Shooting a 1” group (say 5 rounds) from prone at least gives you the confidence to start working on other parts of the discipline knowing that you have a baseline of skill. So, start shooting dot drills for example. Can you break position, transition to another spot on the paper, re-establish a fundamentally sound position and break another shot that stays in a 1” dot? Start shooting Kraft drills (riflekraft.com). It will take awhile before your standing or kneeling group matches your prone group. It all starts with fundamental skills.
 
I shoot from a bench so I was thinking that, I figured that would be one of the easier positions to shoot from, is it not?
It is. And with a good rifle and ammo, a solid setup and a relaxed (non flinching/non trigger jerking) shooter you'll be there in no time.
 
Depends on the definition. Are we considering any group 1moa or less, regardless of POI ?

Or, if someone shoots say a 5 shot group under an MOA that's at 3 o'clock, then 5 shots under an MOA that's at 9 o'clock.....you would combine those groups as one large cone of dispersion?

If it's the latter, I doubt we can even remotely answer this question. I'd say a lot of shooters are able to pick up their rifle an consistently shoot 5-10 shot groups under an moa when looking at each group independently.

I'd say far, far less are able to pick up a rifle hour to hour, day to day, month to month and exhibit the consistency required for the POI to not wander a bit due to inconsistency of some sort.

This is with the assumption equipment and environment (wind moving target, light refraction, etc) is perfectly consistent from day to day.
 
Someone with a home range should put out a weatherproof target, dial off their POA so to preserve the aim point and send one round every time the rifle is out just to see what a group of 50, for example, each shot on different days, looks like. I’d be really impressed if that stayed in a 1” circle. And I’ve shot hundreds of Kraft targets. Walking in to the range and sending 4x3 groups from different positions, with a break and rebuild of each position between each shot, inside an inch, with no warm up is no small feat. Rio is not wrong. Accuracy and precision is harder than just making 5 go close to each other.
 
Someone with a home range should put out a weatherproof target, dial off their POA so to preserve the aim point and send one round every time the rifle is out just to see what a group of 50, for example, each shot on different days, looks like. I’d be really impressed if that stayed in a 1” circle. And I’ve shot hundreds of Kraft targets. Walking in to the range and sending 4x3 groups from different positions, with a break and rebuild of each position between each shot, inside an inch, with no warm up is no small feat. Rio is not wrong. Accuracy and precision is harder than just making 5 go close to each other.
My latest drill is 1 inch circles (I'm working up to SH dot drill). Its a PITA to keep em in there. Its easy to group. Grouping on target repeatedly? Not so much. Yeah I can do it, but my beautiful sub moa groups become MOA because my consistency is ass. Each time you shoot you should work to be better than you were before. I used to call "staying in the black" a good day at the range. Now if my impacts aren't touching, I'm evaluating "what did I do wrong" "Can I see my impact" "Did recoil put me back on target"

Then go to a PRS match and start whiffing all over the place from strange positions. In theory, my accuracy is such I should clean the match.

Unfortunately my experimental results have yet to match that theory...

But yeah, from a bench i'm confident of putting 5 shots in a 1 MOA target. I've worked my ass off to get there though.

Want some fun? Cold Bore Shots at 1000. No kestrel. Know your rifle, Dope, Wind. Weather. Sometimes I get lucky. Sometimes. At least I'm consistently in the black!
 
Here is 3 five shot groups at 100 yards all under 1 moa while working up loads for my 6.5 CM.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20210712_131211559.jpg
    IMG_20210712_131211559.jpg
    346.3 KB · Views: 50
It is. And with a good rifle and ammo, a solid setup and a relaxed (non flinching/non trigger jerking) shooter you'll be there in no time.
Thanks, I went back out tonight and was already doing better. Last time I shot ~1.7MOA (5 rounds) today was ~1.5MOA (5 rounds) with my best group of 5 printing a 1.1 MOA group :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: diverdon
Someone with a home range should put out a weatherproof target, dial off their POA so to preserve the aim point and send one round every time the rifle is out just to see what a group of 50, for example, each shot on different days, looks like. I’d be really impressed if that stayed in a 1” circle. And I’ve shot hundreds of Kraft targets. Walking in to the range and sending 4x3 groups from different positions, with a break and rebuild of each position between each shot, inside an inch, with no warm up is no small feat. Rio is not wrong. Accuracy and precision is harder than just making 5 go close to each other.

Someone should suggest this to Precision Rifle Blog with his tunnel.

Just simple lighting at different times of the day will move POI around a bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: parshal
I can do it, but I have to work at it pretty hard and concentrate on fundamentals and all kinds of other crap.

It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you're using a quality firearm as a tool from prone or a bench with a bipod and a bag, it's pretty common.

If you're using your firearm as a weapon in an oh shit moment from the shoulder, that sub MOA guy is no longer me.

The benchrest guys in here can drill holes on the regular. Have them run 100 yards, sit down and take a shot in 5 seconds, that's likely to change.

If you learn some basic fundamentals and have a good rifle, and your goal is just to obtain sub MOA, it will likely be in your skillset. That's why I'm always screwing around at the range. I'm seldom happy because I always think I can do better.
 
I am quite amused how others keep moving the goal posts.😂

5 shots from your favorite position sub-moa. I would really be surprised if most of us cannot do it provided using reasonable quality equipment and ammunition.

I'd go even further and say that anyone, with 30 minutes worth of good instruction, should be able to do it. Again, with reasonable equipment. The more inexperienced the shooter, the easier it would be.
 
I am quite amused how others keep moving the goal posts.😂

5 shots from your favorite position sub-moa. I would really be surprised if most of us cannot do it provided using reasonable quality equipment and ammunition.

I'd go even further and say that anyone, with 30 minutes worth of good instruction, should be able to do it. Again, with reasonable equipment. The more inexperienced the shooter, the easier it would be.

Can't really move the goal posts when there were no goal posts actually defined by the OP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PJC
I'm new to shooting and certainly can't shoot anything close to sub MOA but I hope to someday (with lots of range time). It seems that most modern equipment can easily achieve this so it's really a measurement of the shooters capabilities right? That got me thinking though what percent of people can constantly shot sub MOA at 100 yards?
100 yds is one thing, past that is totally different.
In my 22 years of knowing the core gang at the j-huskey HardRock range, no one has ever shot 1moa or less on that range. The COF is 20 rds total, 5 each at 600-800-900 & 1K yds., within 20 minutes. No wind flags, no sight'ers. I've seen some impressive groups at each distance over the years, and some guys clean 3 ranges only to blow it at one. Seen many 1" groups (not moa but inch)at 6-8 & 900. Many a bench rest guy has got real flustered, and never returned. Most anything has been shot there from 223-300wm, including and all the Gicci stuff in between.

There does not seem to be the normal "Home range advantage" there either. Everytime the scoring truck came back & the line was fixing to go hot, mothernature would say "Hold by Beer and watch this"!
 
As promised in post #9, he does it “all day”. We can only assume that he also “does his part”.
I was being facetious. I do usually shoot all day(well 5-6 hours) when I go, but I'm not consistently pulling off groups like that that by any means. I have good days and sometimes bad days. But I can say that I am typically a subMOA shooter using a bipod and a bag.

Anyone else find that when you're in a bad mood, your group size opens up? I don't mean being in a bad mood afterwards. LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: diverdon
I was being facetious. I do usually shoot all day(well 5-6 hours) when I go, but I'm not consistently pulling off groups like that that by any means. I have good days and sometimes bad days. But I can say that I am typically a subMOA shooter using a bipod and a bag.

Anyone else find that when you're in a bad mood, your group size opens up? I don't mean being in a bad mood afterwards. LOL
I was just joking about the ubiquitous claim that a gun shoots at some extreme level of accuracy “all day long if I do my part”. And yes, I shoot worse if I’m in a bad mood.
 
OK, posting target pictures, a favorite internet pass time, here's my little wife's one shot group :)
came from 11MOA @ 600 to recheck zero @ 100.
(1/8 MOA off to the left)
Flo-one-shot-at-100yds.jpg

Got 3 things going against her,
Girl, 22 Nosler, Savage Model 10 :)
 
Last edited:
I was being facetious. I do usually shoot all day(well 5-6 hours) when I go, but I'm not consistently pulling off groups like that that by any means. I have good days and sometimes bad days. But I can say that I am typically a subMOA shooter using a bipod and a bag.

Anyone else find that when you're in a bad mood, your group size opens up? I don't mean being in a bad mood afterwards. LOL

I've noticed that any emotion or stress reduces my accuracy. Feeling overly happy, pleased or excited also hurts my accuracy.

In my personal journey I've remembered old shooting coaches who taught breathing routines. Yet today the best in the business seem not to consciously follow any particular breathing routine.

I'm no expert. Nor am I any kind of competitive shooter. Yet I've found that consciously focusing on position/relaxation--reticle/trigger vastly reduce the impact of emotion. For handgun I add a feeling for the rhythm of it.

I'm not claiming that my method would work even for me with competition stress levels. I'm thinking this is why competitors practice so much.
 
Someone with a home range should put out a weatherproof target, dial off their POA so to preserve the aim point and send one round every time the rifle is out just to see what a group of 50, for example, each shot on different days, looks like. I’d be really impressed if that stayed in a 1” circle. And I’ve shot hundreds of Kraft targets. Walking in to the range and sending 4x3 groups from different positions, with a break and rebuild of each position between each shot, inside an inch, with no warm up is no small feat. Rio is not wrong. Accuracy and precision is harder than just making 5 go close to each other.
Years ago we did something similar. We had a few targets on card stock type heavy paper. Made a stack of photocopies of those. Each trip to the range put the card stock target with a photo copy over it. One was designated cold bore, the other was the next 5 shots. At the end of the season the card stock was shot out, but was very telling- how much the cold bore moved and what the aggregate of 20 or more groups looked like. Plus , we still had all the individual pages from every trip to look at. This was 15 or more years ago when I was getting to the range once or twice a week.

For me, I learned perspective on my shooting. We shot in all weather conditions, different times of the day, etc. and even though the base target wasn’t great looking, it wasn’t horrible either. I also learned not to chase my zero. Some days I was off and I could have justified looking at the target and moving zero a tenth or two. But the next trip out I was back on and my zero was good. This gave me more confidence going to matches also.
 
Prone at 100yds, it’s not really hard to shoot consecutive groups that are sub moa. I’d venture to guess that’s true for most on this website. That said, the ppl on this website are a very small percentage of actual shooters.

From my local club, that has ~450 members, there may be 10-15ppl that can do it on command, and I likely over inflated the number who can. Most ppl can’t shoot precision for shit from what I’ve seen. If they can hit a 4moa target, they’re ready for deer season with their “tack driver” rifle.
 
I've noticed that any emotion or stress reduces my accuracy. Feeling overly happy, pleased or excited also hurts my accuracy.

In my personal journey I've remembered old shooting coaches who taught breathing routines. Yet today the best in the business seem not to consciously follow any particular breathing routine.

I'm no expert. Nor am I any kind of competitive shooter. Yet I've found that consciously focusing on position/relaxation--reticle/trigger vastly reduce the impact of emotion. For handgun I add a feeling for the rhythm of it.

I'm not claiming that my method would work even for me with competition stress levels. I'm thinking this is why competitors practice so much.
Good post.
And “mindfulness behind the rifle” is something modern day rifleman works on. Not yoga behind the rifle, but a good discussion about your headspace.
 
My goal is to be able to hit within 1 MOA of my aiming point out to distance with a cold bore & cold shooter (eg. hit within 5" of my aiming dot at 500 yards). I succeed more than I fail, but I certainly don't succeed all of the time. Big winds and further distances will change my ratio a lot for the worse too.

My rifles and loads are certainly what I would consider to be sub-MOA capable. I am not always that way, and I get worse in a hurry as my positions get less stable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grim's Reapers
I've noticed that any emotion or stress reduces my accuracy. Feeling overly happy, pleased or excited also hurts my accuracy.

In my personal journey I've remembered old shooting coaches who taught breathing routines. Yet today the best in the business seem not to consciously follow any particular breathing routine.

I'm no expert. Nor am I any kind of competitive shooter. Yet I've found that consciously focusing on position/relaxation--reticle/trigger vastly reduce the impact of emotion. For handgun I add a feeling for the rhythm of it.

I'm not claiming that my method would work even for me with competition stress levels. I'm thinking this is why competitors practice so much.


Some of my best scores in Service Rifle competition were when I shut down all outside interaction, and just sat and focused (zoned in) on the target while I was waiting to get onto the firing line. When it was time to shoot, I focused solely on my steps to breaking the most consistent shot I could...in order...in a cadence.

Once I learned to do this, I jumped about 5 points in my scores on average. 5 points is significant.

I believe that there is some credibility to your position.
 
I'm new to shooting and certainly can't shoot anything close to sub MOA but I hope to someday (with lots of range time). It seems that most modern equipment can easily achieve this so it's really a measurement of the shooters capabilities right? That got me thinking though what percent of people can constantly shot sub MOA at 100 yards?
Many of the guns, both AR and bolt action are capable of repeated sub MOA results. It's the variables that create the difference. Some you can control, some you can't. The reality is that it's mountains of shooting time that are going to hone your skills once you have a good setup that offers repeatable results.

I see lots of paper targets with great grouping, but they aren't hitting the center of the target. Why? I don't know. To me, being able to first hit what you are shooting at, such as the bullseye, and then group there is the goal.

I shoot at cheap Amazon poker chips. They're 1.5 inches in diameter and honestly, hitting them in the center (.75") with 3 shots at 100 yards is quite the challenge. I also shoot at caps from Wife's water bottles.

Wind, temperature, humidity, powder, bullets, all are factors out of your control yet have to be dealt with. I'm quite familiar with AR tactical shooting but this precision is very new to me, yet many of the things I learned before are applicable now.

I really think precision shooting is more of a a witch's brew of experimentation and science, combined with great skill.

The real key, for me, is shooting with live ammo.
 
I see lots of paper targets with great grouping, but they aren't hitting the center of the target. Why? I don't know. To me, being able to first hit what you are shooting at, such as the bullseye, and then group there is the goal.
Personally I think you're backwards here. IMHO the reason you see that is because grouping is more important that hitting where you aim. My reasoning behind this is that if you can consistently stack your round on top of each other then it's VERY easily adjust your dope to put all the rounds on your POA based on where the group is relative to the POI. However, if you can't call your shot accurately then there's a zero percent change of using a POI to make adjustments to put your next POI on the POA.

Think of it like a laser pointer, since the laser always hits the same spot it's very easy to move it to point to a target, however imagine if that pointer randomly jumped around unpredictably, well now you'd never have it consistently pointing at your target.

Until you can call your shots and stack them consistently in whatever you deem an acceptable group size is then I don't think you should really worry that much about hitting POA.
 
Personally I think you're backwards here. IMHO the reason you see that is because grouping is more important that hitting where you aim. My reasoning behind this is that if you can consistently stack your round on top of each other then it's VERY easily adjust your dope to put all the rounds on your POA based on where the group is relative to the POI. However, if you can't call your shot accurately then there's a zero percent change of using a POI to make adjustments to put your next POI on the POA.

Think of it like a laser pointer, since the laser always hits the same spot it's very easy to move it to point to a target, however imagine if that pointer randomly jumped around unpredictably, well now you'd never have it consistently pointing at your target.

Until you can call your shots and stack them consistently in whatever you deem an acceptable group size is then I don't think you should really worry that much about hitting POA.
I've posted pics of ammo testing through different rifles.
Five rounds per weapon / per ammo tested.
Some rounds were near POA.
Some weren't.
But they all showed what kind of group to expect, and what kind of POI shift each ammo type had in each weapon.

Yes, it would be easy to dial a couple of clicks of correction in. But that would negate the information I got from knowing where the rounds hit in relation to POA - per different ammo type. If the goal were to show off hitting the bullseye each time - it would be absolutely pointless other than internet boasting. Once the ammo type was selected per weapon - adjustments were made. I seriously doubt anybody here cares about another picture of 5 rounds through the bullseye.
 
I've posted pics of ammo testing through different rifles.
Five rounds per weapon / per ammo tested.
Some rounds were near POA.
Some weren't.
But they all showed what kind of group to expect, and what kind of POI shift each ammo type had in each weapon.

Yes, it would be easy to dial a couple of clicks of correction in. But that would negate the information I got from knowing where the rounds hit in relation to POA - per different ammo type. If the goal were to show off hitting the bullseye each time - it would be absolutely pointless other than internet boasting. Once the ammo type was selected per weapon - adjustments were made. I seriously doubt anybody here cares about another picture of 5 rounds through the bullseye.
I think that's my point, to be able to select an ammo and make adjustments you first need a consistent group with that ammo. It doesn't really matter how far from POA that group is because your next group and every one after that will be on bullseye once you know how that ammo behaves. That is all dependent on you being able to print a consistent group with the ammo in the first place though. I mean really the entire concept of a dope book is built upon repeating consist results.

My mantra: Consistency creates accuracy, accuracy does not create consistency. Anyone can be accurate some of the time but only a consistent shooter can be accurate most of the time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Modoc and MadDuner
Personally I think you're backwards here. IMHO the reason you see that is because grouping is more important that hitting where you aim. My reasoning behind this is that if you can consistently stack your round on top of each other then it's VERY easily adjust your dope to put all the rounds on your POA based on where the group is relative to the POI. However, if you can't call your shot accurately then there's a zero percent change of using a POI to make adjustments to put your next POI on the POA.

Think of it like a laser pointer, since the laser always hits the same spot it's very easy to move it to point to a target, however imagine if that pointer randomly jumped around unpredictably, well now you'd never have it consistently pointing at your target.

Until you can call your shots and stack them consistently in whatever you deem an acceptable group size is then I don't think you should really worry that much about hitting POA.
Like I said, this is a new type of shooting for me and I'm very much still learning. Up till now, for me, everything has been towards a point of reference, the bullseye (for lack of a better term) as the point of aim to hit.

Doesn't that hold true for precision shooting? Isn't that where the first shot is still directed?

I understand the grouping concept. It just looks like to me, the first off center shot is more of a flyner and follow up shots are then centered towards that.

Learning an awful lot from this site and others like it. Appreciate your perspective.