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Rifle Scopes What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

redhead522

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 1, 2010
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One of the other posts talks about a Nightforce FFP scope being offered in 5-25, but at a pretty penny ($3200 supposedly). My question is, for this price why not just stick with a Premier or spend a little more and get the S&B? From what I've read the Premier and S&B glass is the best there is.

The only drawbacks I've found are

S&B:
tunneling affect
premium price

Premier:
parallax adjustment not labeled well
less audible clicks
illuminated reticle goes away at gaps in-between illumination controls

I'm not trying to sound negative. I'm still contemplating which 5-25 to get, so this may bring me back to square one.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

I don't know what the new FFP will bring but my F1 is awesome. It is very clear and the best scope I own which includes it's engineering. It is my first "tactical" scope but I have several Swarovski scopes for my hunting rifles and for all around quality it blows them away. The Swarovski scopes seem a little brighter but I think that has to do with their coatings which create a better optical "look". Hard to explain but better all around quality and it's made in the USA.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

NF is more reliable than Premier and arguably more reliable than S&B. Personally I am hoping NF has a thinner reticle than the P4F in the S&B; something with the line thickness of the USO GAP Mil reticle would be great. Additionally, the NF is said to be US made which is another big advantage.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF is more reliable than Premier and arguably more reliable than S&B.</div></div>

Please explain your reasoning behind this. I own a S&B and have handled Premiers a good bit, and have a good bit of experience with Nightforces. While they are all nice scopes, I wouldn't say the Nightforce is much better than a Premier in terms of reliability, and I definitely wouldn't say it's more reliable than a S&B PMII. I have used all these before side by side of each other, and I honestly would rank them from first to "last" according to their pricing. You really do get what you pay for in these higher end optics, it's just all about what you can justify since they are all very nice optics.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

Being I have seen prototypes of this scope, what they bring,

A smaller package than the S&B, higher resolution, as they changed the coatings and upgraded it.

It should have the new illumination, the eye box is similar to the Hensoldt as in much more forgiving and generous than either of the two you listed.

As said above greater reliability than certainly the Premier and on par with S&B, US made, and the number you quoted hasn't been confirmed as there was more than one version, the full boat was rumored to be over $3k, the probable version being released / announced this week is slated to come in under that.

Nightforce as a company has a great reputation for reliability and is well established. So there is that factor,
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being I have seen prototypes of this scope, what they bring,

A smaller package than the S&B, higher resolution, as they changed the coatings and upgraded it.

It should have the new illumination, the eye box is similar to the Hensoldt as in much more forgiving and generous than either of the two you listed.

As said above greater reliability than certainly the Premier and on par with S&B, US made, and the number you quoted hasn't been confirmed as there was more than one version, the full boat was rumored to be over $3k, the probable version being released / announced this week is slated to come in under that.

Nightforce as a company has a great reputation for reliability and is well established. So there is that factor, </div></div>

this ^ and the fact that nightforce hasn't put this items out yet because they are so focused on putting out the best possible product. and there are some new features. plus lead times might be long, but with nightforce they are reliable
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF is more reliable than Premier and arguably more reliable than S&B.</div></div>

Please explain your reasoning behind this. I own a S&B and have handled Premiers a good bit, and have a good bit of experience with Nightforces. While they are all nice scopes, I wouldn't say the Nightforce is much better than a Premier in terms of reliability, and I definitely wouldn't say it's more reliable than a S&B PMII. I have used all these before side by side of each other, and I honestly would rank them from first to "last" according to their pricing. You really do get what you pay for in these higher end optics, it's just all about what you can justify since they are all very nice optics. </div></div>

Premiers issues with parallax locking up and poor tracking have been documented although they seem to be improving. Do some research and you'll see for yourself.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

I don't doubt the reliability with Premiers as I have seen the parallax issues, but what reasons would make it more reliable than a S&B? I have compared a Nightforce to both scopes and actually recommended to my friend that the Nightforce was just as good and didn't justify the extra money for the Premier, however, the S&B blew both Nightforces away in every aspect besides tracking where they were pretty much equal. Are there any reasons you have seen personally that shows a Nightforce is more reliable than a S&B (other than the bullet story)?
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't doubt the reliability with Premiers as I have seen the parallax issues, but what reasons would make it more reliable than a S&B? I have compared a Nightforce to both scopes and actually recommended to my friend that the Nightforce was just as good and didn't justify the extra money for the Premier, however, the S&B blew both Nightforces away in every aspect besides tracking where they were pretty much equal. Are there any reasons you have seen personally that shows a Nightforce is more reliable than a S&B (other than the bullet story)?</div></div>

It's not necessarily, "more reliable" and in reading this, I don't' think anyone meant "more" in definitive terms however it is just "as" reliable and when you consider the price difference makes the NF a better buy.

On top of that there have been questions of eye relief, tunneling, and other eye piece related issues with the S&B 5-25x, simply search the site and you'll see people bringing into question the 5-25x for this... Also the MTC Turret has had some issues, mainly being line offset, (A charge against the 1/2 priced SSHD, but only glossed over with S&B) The MTC has effected the overall satisfaction with the line.

NF does extremely well in the reliability department, in terms of long term use they tend to fair very, very well. I happen to run both and so far, with about 12+ of each type, S&B and NF, I can say I have had 2 S&Bs returned for service over 8 years and no NF needing service i the same period. Granted a small anecdotal sampling, but something I consider when picking scopes. I love my S&Bs, but I also use my NF without any hesitations alongside them. Doesn't' mean people don't' have issues, they do with any scope, but overall, and in the long run, the numbers are in their favor.

Again, consider the price difference in the above statements. Really the only reason people don't gravitate to NF more so than S&B or anything else is, because the glass is flat and doesn't "pop" with color. The resolution is similar but the lack of color leaves those who "peer" more than shoot wanting. Well NF addressed that with the new scope... they redesigned the coatings and if they stick with the ones I saw for this model, well the only optic that comes close would be a Leica Spotter, because they went that way in order to address the customer complaints. The S&B 5-25x is rated at 3.0 resolution, the one NF tested was 2.8 (lower numbers better) the new NF tested out at 2.3 according to the data I saw.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

I appreciate the quick reply. I guess I have not noticed these issues since my MTC turret hasn't had any problems with the markings lining up, nor the other three I saw. I like the S&B turrets more than the the older Nightforce turrets, but I don't like the new high speed knobs as they seem "mushy" to me from the five I've handled. The glass also seems much better in the S&B. However, those are only small things that don't necessarily matter, but I guess you can say they are my justifications in a way.

The tunneling in the S&B I find to be a non-issue...for me. I don't see myself hunting with a 20+ pound rifle, and I sure wouldn't top a hunting rifle with a heavy PMII. The lower range around 8x starts to tunnel, which I do not like, but I have never cranked it past 10x in any competition so far, so I haven't had to use it.

I don't dislike Nightforces in any way. In fact, they are my most recommended scopes to any shooter because of how well they track, and they're not that hard to afford if you pick up a used one. I am very much excited to see this new 5-25 Nightforce, and see what they have improved.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

What it really comes down too... people will complain about small things users like yourself will say, "I really hadn't noticed" in less expensive scopes than in their higher end, pricier ones. When some one spends more than $3k for a scope they tend to take it for granted that everything is 100% perfect. Where, if you follow the threads on here, you'll see people go ballistic over a $1500 scope the same small issues.

The MTC ISSUES is well documented, the tunneling, while, not a hinderance by any means doesn't make it less there. As well there has been a growing ground swell of complaints regarding the eye box and eye relief, etc. Picture Quality Issues

Again, consider the uproar against the SWFA SSHD 5-20x for the same problem versus those found with the MTC, much less. I absolutely hate the MTC Turret and love the NF High Speed Turret much more.. the Double Turret S&B is a much better turret than the MTC. The spacing is better, the feel is better, the overall ease of use is better on the double turn when compared to the MTC, but because the USMC uses the MTC people will make all sorts of justifications for it. It's even better visually.

I have no issue spending my own money on S&B, but I will also buy a NF a bit quicker simply because I know I am getting more for less. especially since I am not a big magnification whore so the F1 is about perfect for me.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the full boat was rumored to be over $3k, the probable version being released / announced this week is slated to come in under that. </div></div>

This week? In STL? I may have to make the trip if so....
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
While they are all nice scopes, I wouldn't say the Nightforce is much better than a Premier in terms of reliability, and I definitely wouldn't say it's more reliable than a S&B PMII. I have used all these before side by side of each other, and I honestly would rank them from first to "last" according to their pricing. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't doubt the reliability with Premiers as <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">I have seen the parallax issues</span></span>, but what reasons would make it more reliable than a S&B? </div></div>

Looks like you answered your own question regarding NF vs PH. As Frank has diligently explained the long term reliability data is stellar for NF. Is it better than S&B? Nobody can say, but it is definitely in the same league in that regard. If the NF takes care of the tunneling issues and doesn't have an MTC turret then I would favor it over the S&B. The guys in Orifino know their way around a scope.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the full boat was rumored to be over $3k, the probable version being released / announced this week is slated to come in under that. </div></div>

This week? In STL? I may have to make the trip if so....</div></div>

Can we get some details about the possible release? Where the hell is STL?
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the full boat was rumored to be over $3k, the probable version being released / announced this week is slated to come in under that. </div></div>

This week? In STL? I may have to make the trip if so....</div></div>

Can we get some details about the possible release? Where the hell is STL? </div></div>

Sorry about that, yeah St. Louis is commonly referred to as STL in MIssouri, like on a Cardinals baseball cap.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

Guys - as much as it pains me to say this, it will not be released at NRA. That was something that we speculated at SHOT but that deadline was not met. There are still a few minor cosmetic changes that need to take place prior to an official release.

As much as I would like to say all the great things about this new scope, it really has to be seen to be believed, and I feel quite positive that it will be well received.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 00bullitt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys - as much as it pains me to say this, it will not be released at NRA. That was something that we speculated at SHOT but that deadline was not met. There are still a few minor cosmetic changes that need to take place prior to an official release.

As much as I would like to say all the great things about this new scope, it really has to be seen to be believed, and I feel quite positive that it will be well received.</div></div>


And Baby Jesus Wept...
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

I can't wait for this scope to be released...

I'm actually disappointed with my recent S&B purchase, especially for the money. I like everything about my F1 better than my PMII 5-25 except the reticle (I really like the MSR).

I just wish I knew when it was going to be available.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 00bullitt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys - as much as it pains me to say this, it will not be released at NRA. That was something that we speculated at SHOT but that deadline was not met. There are still a few minor cosmetic changes that need to take place prior to an official release.

As much as I would like to say all the great things about this new scope, it really has to be seen to be believed, and I feel quite positive that it will be well received.</div></div>


And Baby Jesus Wept... </div></div>

+1 =(
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 00bullitt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys - as much as it pains me to say this, it will not be released at NRA. That was something that we speculated at SHOT but that deadline was not met. There are still a few minor cosmetic changes that need to take place prior to an official release.

As much as I would like to say all the great things about this new scope, it really has to be seen to be believed, and I feel quite positive that it will be well received.</div></div>

This scope better be worth the wait. Or else, I'm going to . . . continue to wait and do nothing about it other than sulk.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

I am also looking forward to the new scope along with NF new MOAR. Put all in the same package zero stops, FFP, MOAR with MOA adjustments. I'll stoke a check on the spot.
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 00bullitt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys - as much as it pains me to say this, it will not be released at NRA. That was something that we speculated at SHOT but that deadline was not met. There are still a few minor cosmetic changes that need to take place prior to an official release.

As much as I would like to say all the great things about this new scope, it really has to be seen to be believed, and I feel quite positive that it will be well received. </div></div>

Is there a new estimated date for its release?
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

So a while back I poured over the NF patents from a few years ago. The main innovation I saw was that with a switch of a lever, the elevation turret would go to/from fine adjustments (.25 MOA) from/to coarse adjustments (1 MOA). The idea was to be able to rapidly change elevation with the coarse adjustments and then fine tune with the fine. It is an impressive endeavor and would love to know if it will be incorporated I this "Beast".
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

When the beast is eventually released...... How long before it gets down under? It seems as though the U.S market will get priority. No big deal, it just means I gotta wait longer
mad.gif
 
Re: What would a NF 5-25 bring to the table?

Just left the NRA convention, spent about 30 minutes at the nightforce booth....I talked to the rep about the 5x25 and he said it's in the works but nothing anytime soon.....maybe around fall....got this from the horses mouth....They did say it was a great scope they just need more time.....