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What would you build? SA non-mag

mkollman74

mkollman74

Quo Vadis?
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    • Nov 5, 2009
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    WA, USA
    #1
    I've done a bunch of reading on here today RE SA choices for a rifle I may be rebarreling. It seems that many of the shoots around me are getting a bit more restrictive as far as what they'll allow rifles to be chambered in. Some guys are p.o'd, I figure - their match, their rules.

    So, what would you build if you were restricted to SA non-magnum (including WSM/RSAUM)? I was originally thinking 260 or 7-08. I spent a bit of time reading about SA 284s today, and that sounds like it could be the ticket. Using Seekins bottom metal it sounds like the SA could be a practical choice with some of the higher BC bullets for the 284. Perhaps you have other options I should consider.

    I'd like to keep the barrel at 24" or less (preferably 20-22). I understand that the 7-08 would be a better choice in the shorter lengths. Most of the shooting will be 600-800 but 25% or so will be out to around 1000.

    Input from those with actual experience will be greatly appreciated.
     
    #2
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    go with the .260. The 284 needs a long action to realize its potential, dont let anyone tell you different. The 7-08 doesnt have the case capacity to push the 168's fast enough to give you a real advantage.

    but the .260?? THAT's the ticket!! Low recoil, great ballistics, good barrel life, not finicky to load for. doen't get any better than that!
     
    #4
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    I'd go with anything other than the 260. Really, a 243 or 243 ai would be a great choice for shooting inside of 1000. The heavier bullets of the. 264 or. 284 really start to shine when pushed beyond 1k.

    If you just gotta have a 6.5 bullet, I'd recommend the 6.5x47 shooting the 130 Bergers. This cartridge allows you to make the most of the avalible space in the mag and it keeps the bullet out of the powder column.
     
    #5
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stockdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The 7-08 doesnt have the case capacity to push the 168's fast enough to give you a real advantage.
    </div></div>

    Surprised to hear this. There are a few very nice builds on the 'hide that are 7mm08's. The owners wrote they were happy shooting 162 AMAX's our of 18.5-20 inch barrels.
     
    #6
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    I would agree with most here. Either 260 Rem, 6.5 Creed or 6.5x47 Lapua. The 243 or AI variant would be a good choice also. I just built a 6.5x47 Lapua and I also have a 284 on a LA, and the 284 really does need to be in a LA to really get its full potential. Both shoot very well.
     
    #7
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    6 XC or Creedmoor would be my recommendation. It is nice with the Creedmoor to have factory ammo available if you need it. Factory ammo shoots real close to my reloads from 600yds on in.
     
    #8
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    I'd go 6.5 Creed. Mostly because I don't have one yet and I really am interested in it. Thinking the new 100 grain A-Max might be hell on coyotes as far as I care to shoot them.
     
    #11
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    284 or 7-08. In that order would be my choice. Sure a 284 can be pushed harder on a LA but you can gain 100-150 fps over a 7-08. Some have hit the 3k mark with the 162 Amax. That is spanking the shit out of any other option other than a mag in a SA. Plus bbl life will still be decent compared to many other options. Nothing wrong with a 7-08 either. My partner shoots one and it is great. 2000MR will put a lot of ass behind the 162 Amax or 168 VLD. Bottom line go 7mm and don't look back.
     
    #12
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    With the 260 Rem guys are getting 3,000fps in a 24" barrel with Lapua brass, H4350, and 130 Bergers with a .595bc

    If you use the 140 jlk it has a 634 bc

    The tested bc of the 7mm 162 Amax is .599. Unless you go with a 7 WSM I would stay away from the .284 (my opinion, I know some guys love them)

    Of course of the guys that compete your going to hear 20 different opinions because most of us have that special cartridge that gives us an edge over our competitors
    wink.gif


    Some competitions are restricted to .308 so if you don't have one already that might be a better choice because it would open up more opportunities to compete.
     
    #14
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the purpose of the gun? Hunting? comps? Big difference for me. Hunting 7wsm and for comps i like shooting the dtac 115's at 3050fps. </div></div>

    Mostly comps with maybe some huting once in awhile. I can't go with the 7WSM due to the non-magnum rules at some of the comps. For a pure hunting rifle, that would be the stuff! I've been thinking 7-08, but the 284 on an SA has me intereted also.

    If I understand correctly, even if I can't copletely optimize the cartidge due to the need to seat bullets at SA mag length, there is still extra case capacity over the 7-08 in the SA.
     
    #15
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">284 or 7-08. In that order would be my choice. Sure a 284 can be pushed harder on a LA but you can gain 100-150 fps over a 7-08. Some have hit the 3k mark with the 162 Amax. That is spanking the shit out of any other option other than a mag in a SA. Plus bbl life will still be decent compared to many other options. Nothing wrong with a 7-08 either. My partner shoots one and it is great. 2000MR will put a lot of ass behind the 162 Amax or 168 VLD. Bottom line go 7mm and don't look back. </div></div>

    This is really along the lines of what I have been thinking as well. Do you have experience with a 284 on an SA?
     
    #16
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    I have been loving my 7-08 lately. Barrel life, ballistics, recoil, and bullet selection are all really good. My 8 twist barrel is shooting the great BC heavy bullets with benchrest accuracy at all distances. Definately worth consideration.
     
    #17
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnshortdraw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been loving my 7-08 lately. Barrel life, ballistics, recoil, and bullet selection are all really good. My 8 twist barrel is shooting the great BC heavy bullets with benchrest accuracy at all distances. Definately worth consideration. </div></div>

    What types of loads are you running? What length barrel?
     
    #19
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the 260 Rem guys are getting 3,000fps in a 24" barrel with Lapua brass, H4350, and 130 Bergers with a .595bc</div></div>

    The 6.5mm 130gr Berger VLD's G1 BC is .552, not .595.

    I think the 130 Swampworks VLD is around .590 though...
     
    #20
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    Thanks for the correction, your right the Berger is a .552bc. That's what i get for going off memory. But i did confirm (by checking my Applied Ballistics book) that the 7mm 162 Amax is .599bc and the 140 JLK was actually higher at .639bc.

    I still stand by the .260 choice due to velocity vs bc. 3,000fps with a bc of .590 (130jlk) is still going to be very competitive with anything in a short action at 6.25moa drift in a 10mph wind at 1,000yds.

    To match that ballistic profile with the 7-08 you would have to push the 162 A-max to 2,900fps. I don't think thats possible in a 24" barrel. From what i have seen guys running 26" barrels are getting around 2,750fps with the Amax. I still think the .260 is the way to go.
     
    #21
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">284 or 7-08. In that order would be my choice. Sure a 284 can be pushed harder on a LA but you can gain 100-150 fps over a 7-08. Some have hit the 3k mark with the 162 Amax. That is spanking the shit out of any other option other than a mag in a SA. Plus bbl life will still be decent compared to many other options. Nothing wrong with a 7-08 either. My partner shoots one and it is great. 2000MR will put a lot of ass behind the 162 Amax or 168 VLD. Bottom line go 7mm and don't look back. </div></div>

    This is really along the lines of what I have been thinking as well. Do you have experience with a 284 on an SA? </div></div>

    I have a 284 on a SA now. It is currently a work in progress that will be done in spring. I have high hopes! Worst case scenario I run the 162amax at 2,900ish fps. Darn, that is still nothing to shake a stick at. But like I said. 3k fps is not out of reach. I have a 25" bbl so my goal is to find a accuracy node between 2950-3000. Hopefully I can. I do not understand why the 284 is looked down on in a SA. Sure you can obtain advantages on a LA. But with some of the newer options for dbm systems I think it definitely fills the void between the 7-08 and 7wsm. Based on my criteria for what I wanted out of this weapon. That is the area of performance I was looking for. The 7-08 just wasn't enough but I didn't want some of the "side effects" that the WSM would present. Good luck with your decision.
     
    #23
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">284 or 7-08. In that order would be my choice. Sure a 284 can be pushed harder on a LA but you can gain 100-150 fps over a 7-08. Some have hit the 3k mark with the 162 Amax. That is spanking the shit out of any other option other than a mag in a SA. Plus bbl life will still be decent compared to many other options. Nothing wrong with a 7-08 either. My partner shoots one and it is great. 2000MR will put a lot of ass behind the 162 Amax or 168 VLD. Bottom line go 7mm and don't look back. </div></div>

    This is really along the lines of what I have been thinking as well. Do you have experience with a 284 on an SA? </div></div>

    I have a 284 on a SA now. It is currently a work in progress that will be done in spring. I have high hopes! Worst case scenario I run the 162amax at 2,900ish fps. Darn, that is still nothing to shake a stick at. But like I said. 3k fps is not out of reach. I have a 25" bbl so my goal is to find a accuracy node between 2950-3000. Hopefully I can. I do not understand why the 284 is looked down on in a SA. Sure you can obtain advantages on a LA. But with some of the newer options for dbm systems I think it definitely fills the void between the 7-08 and 7wsm. Based on my criteria for what I wanted out of this weapon. That is the area of performance I was looking for. The 7-08 just wasn't enough but I didn't want some of the "side effects" that the WSM would present. Good luck with your decision. </div></div>

    Whose DBM are you going with?
     
    #25
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">284 or 7-08. In that order would be my choice. Sure a 284 can be pushed harder on a LA but you can gain 100-150 fps over a 7-08. Some have hit the 3k mark with the 162 Amax. That is spanking the shit out of any other option other than a mag in a SA. Plus bbl life will still be decent compared to many other options. Nothing wrong with a 7-08 either. My partner shoots one and it is great. 2000MR will put a lot of ass behind the 162 Amax or 168 VLD. Bottom line go 7mm and don't look back. </div></div>

    This is really along the lines of what I have been thinking as well. Do you have experience with a 284 on an SA? </div></div>

    I have a 284 on a SA now. It is currently a work in progress that will be done in spring. I have high hopes! Worst case scenario I run the 162amax at 2,900ish fps. Darn, that is still nothing to shake a stick at. But like I said. 3k fps is not out of reach. I have a 25" bbl so my goal is to find a accuracy node between 2950-3000. Hopefully I can. I do not understand why the 284 is looked down on in a SA. Sure you can obtain advantages on a LA. But with some of the newer options for dbm systems I think it definitely fills the void between the 7-08 and 7wsm. Based on my criteria for what I wanted out of this weapon. That is the area of performance I was looking for. The 7-08 just wasn't enough but I didn't want some of the "side effects" that the WSM would present. Good luck with your decision. </div></div>

    Whose DBM are you going with? </div></div>

    The 284 feeds very nicely from Alpha Industries WSM mags. This will allow for a COL of 2.985" I will be running alpha mags in CDI bottom metal.
     
    #26
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    I love the .284 but in a short action it's not using its full capacity. Those 7mm bullets are just way to long. There are some good shirt action bottom metals available right now that can get you out to 3.000. That's really good for a .284 running say a 162 amax or similar.
     
    #27
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcvibby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love the .284 but in a short action it's not using its full capacity. Those 7mm bullets are just way to long. There are some good shirt action bottom metals available right now that can get you out to 3.000. That's really good for a .284 running say a 162 amax or similar. </div></div>

    Yeah, I know a SA wouldn't be pushing a 284 to its full potential, but it was designed for SA rifles. The question I need to answer is whether the performance I can get out of a 284 in a SA is better than that of other calibers in a SA (say 260 or 7-08). I am at the in-laws, and don't have access to my ballistics software at the moment. I'll need to run some numbers when I get home.

    I agree with you that some of the SA bottom metals that allow for longer COAL would be the way to go. I see you just sold your LA. What caliber are you moving to?
     
    #28
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The question I need to answer is whether the performance I can get out of a 284 in a SA is better than that of other calibers in a SA (say 260 or 7-08). </div></div>

    In short, NO. Think of the bullets that it was designed to use when being developed for the short action. The .260/Creedmoor/6.5x47 Lapua give you a lot more wiggle room for the longer high bc bullets.

    If you plan to shoot a 140gr gameking out of the .284 then go for it.
     
    #29
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    Per Shooter app:
    1000yd, 10mph crosswind, sea level, 59°F, 29.92Hg

    284 Win, 162gr A-Max (Litz G7) @ 2900fps: 7.8mil drop, 1.8mil drift
    7mm-08, 162gr A-Max (Litz G7) @ 2750fps: 8.9mil drop, 2.0mil drift
    260, 130 Berger VLD (Litz G7) @ 3000fps: 7.6mil drop, 2.0mil drift
    260, 140 JLK VLD (Litz G7) @ 2820fps: 8.1mil drop, 1.8mil drift

    A short-action 284 is handicapped...but with Alpha Type II magazines or WSMs that provide longer OALs its much less handicapped.

    http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html
     
    #30
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    I think your going to have a hard time getting 2900fps out of a 24" or shorter barrel with the 162 Amax. I think to get those 7mm velocities you would have to go 26" which he didn't want to do. I had an aquaintance that was shooting the Amax with a stiff load of RL17 out of a 26" barrel in the .284win that was getting 2950 but he didn't stick with it. RL17 is crappy for temp stability. The OP said he wants a shorter barrel 22"-24". I still think the .260 is the better choice. H4350 is very stable.
     
    #31
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    You guys are awesome. Thanks for the posts and numbers. It helps a guy like me think things through if I have others to challenge me in good ways.

    Given the shorter barrel I am looking for, perhaps a 7-08 is the way to go. I know the 260 rocks, but I understand that barrel life on the 7-08 is quite a bit better.
     
    #33
    Re: What would you build? SA non-mag

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys are awesome. Thanks for the posts and numbers. It helps a guy like me think things through if I have others to challenge me in good ways.

    Given the shorter barrel I am looking for, perhaps a 7-08 is the way to go. I know the 260 rocks, but I understand that barrel life on the 7-08 is quite a bit better. </div></div>

    6.5x47 Lapua
     
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