Just wondering what's the latest information/update on the lawsuit filed against the Hide by the goofball rifle builder?
What's Going On with the Lawsuit
- Thread starter Centuriator
- Start date
Last thing of any substance that I recall is that Frank and Marc were finally officially "served" with the suit. Prior to that they were aware of it but hadn't been served yet.
If it runs true to form, this thing will be years in the process and cost a fortune unless the plaintiffs' counsel can get it dismissed early.
If it runs true to form, this thing will be years in the process and cost a fortune unless the plaintiffs' counsel can get it dismissed early.
I have looked into a defamation of character suit and been involved with an IP battle. The friend of mine who is a lawyer told me that he has never met a person who started a defamation suit to end up happy in the end. The only ones who win in these cases are the lawyers.
I was served at the prompting of my Lawyer as they (TR) never served me until we prodded.
I don't believe Marc has been served yet.
Clearly the Lawyer's will win, that is the nature of the game. When you venture down that road, its understood, but TR has no problem employing their counsel, that part is clear. He must have a "special" relationship with her.
But we didn't ask for this, it was pressed upon us, and just because someone can file a frivolous suit doesn't make it any cheaper. As someone said the only thing you can do is fight it and move to dismiss, and see what the court says.
But we are prepared to fight it, and do whatever it takes to stop this BS.
I don't believe Marc has been served yet.
Clearly the Lawyer's will win, that is the nature of the game. When you venture down that road, its understood, but TR has no problem employing their counsel, that part is clear. He must have a "special" relationship with her.
But we didn't ask for this, it was pressed upon us, and just because someone can file a frivolous suit doesn't make it any cheaper. As someone said the only thing you can do is fight it and move to dismiss, and see what the court says.
But we are prepared to fight it, and do whatever it takes to stop this BS.
I hope your attorney has told you that you can recoup costs and fees if you prevail at trial. There is some additional paperwork and such. I have only worked on a few cases where the plaintiff had to pay all of the costs and fees, but it does happen if the suit can be proven to be frivolous. Good luck with it though.
That is not necessarily true, there are some avenues we can venture down, but it's not a given.
Each state and situation is a bit different, the Judge could order it, but our options are not as open as one would think.
Each state and situation is a bit different, the Judge could order it, but our options are not as open as one would think.
Frank,
Let us know how we can help. My offer to send money remains open. I owe this website a lot.
Fuck man, I'm truly sorry. As stated i'v been through it and it's no fun, no one wins. It hurts especially when it's baseless.
Firearms are inherently dangerous and any work done to highlight poor workmanship is a service to the community and possibly a life saver. If your lucky it will peter out or someone will come to their senses. If your lawyer is creative perhaps they will call on the community to provide assistance. As well there may be other owners of said establishments firearms that have had problems and or concerns, or worse?
You built this site based on your passions and grew it out of nothing, now look at it. There are always going to be people who will want to take you down when you have accomplished something big.
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It sure is easy for TR to claim there are shills on this site, allowed by the site, helped by the site, in order to sell their wears. But it is different to name names, give examples etc. It's not like someone comes on the board and askes, "Who makes a great xyx", and wa-la suddenly one of the advertisers just so happens to make an xyz, or is about to release an xyz. I'm sure that happens once in a while, because interest in shooting is what the board is all about, but to claim there are shills, makes it sound like there is a conspiracy. If they can't name names, or back up their claim(s), they "got nothing". Just one example, no more! I read somewhere, on another site, that TR claims LL gave given more than one screen name, etc. to advertisers. This allows the advertiser to post great stuff about themselves, knock the competition, etc. Sounds sneaky, but just saying it don't make it so. Hope this all works out for the site, as TR appears to a "noise make".
Actually in the lawsuit they are claiming:
I am totally looking forward to the evidence on that one, I won't answer it, but among yourselves ask how that might work... the language of it alone is pretty specific.
I am totally looking forward to the evidence on that one, I won't answer it, but among yourselves ask how that might work... the language of it alone is pretty specific.
I can't realy send cash rite now but would love to send you a set of 1911 ebony grips with the Snipers Hide logo inlayed in silver that can be sold or auctiond off for the cause. I usually sell my inlays starting at about $250 let me know
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This has all the makings of a rock opera, or an Italian opera, I can't decide which but I've already started working on the treatment.
Although it's not likely to go so far, maybe I'll have the honor of meeting a few of you gents here:
Downtown Pourhouse | Bar and Restaurant | Orlando Florida
Although it's not likely to go so far, maybe I'll have the honor of meeting a few of you gents here:
Downtown Pourhouse | Bar and Restaurant | Orlando Florida
About as specific as you can get, problem is: they give names, dates, etc. From my perspective, if they can make the claim regarding screen names....., they should be able NAME them. If so, they may have a bit of a conspiracy, however; it appears the conspiracy exists in their minds, along with the Area 51 guys......
Correct they have not named any specific screen names and from talking with others who spoke to them, it appears they are hoping they can "discover" something through questioning me.
One major hurdle, all the negative posts on here have been started by "known" customers of theirs who have been in contact with them or have posted invoices for their rifles. In their SOTG article they said that, "anonymous posters" were falsely reviewing their rifles. When this all started by a known customer who contacted them first as well the other posts are also from their customers, who they exchanged emails or phone calls with.
It's a big conspiracy theory, just like their lawyer saying to Guns.com that I "manipulate" the board.
They know I had nothing to do with the creation of the video, yet they claimed in the suit,
The customer contacted them about it, it was created in CA and published to YouTube, so they have no problem lying to the court.
Almost the entire basis for their claim against me is going back to the now settled issue between GAP and Tac Ops, which was sorted out in 2007. They are using the old posts from that back and forth to say it happened to them. They believe from my read, they can question me about the 2007 incident and then scream, "Ah Ha" to the court and snag me for this. Back in 2010 when they first threatened me with this exact suit, they were citing the stuff that happened with Tac Ops not Tactical Rifles. However it was nothing close, the fact all parties are now friends and business associates is gonna rain down hard on them. Besides the simple fact it never had anything to do with TR, ever. I think he likes pretending he is Tac Ops which probably why he named the company like he did. Same thing with the M40 rifle designation, he likes the confusion it causes, and the potential customers it might trick.
They have no issue lying to the court about a number of these claims, so we fight it.
One major hurdle, all the negative posts on here have been started by "known" customers of theirs who have been in contact with them or have posted invoices for their rifles. In their SOTG article they said that, "anonymous posters" were falsely reviewing their rifles. When this all started by a known customer who contacted them first as well the other posts are also from their customers, who they exchanged emails or phone calls with.
It's a big conspiracy theory, just like their lawyer saying to Guns.com that I "manipulate" the board.
They know I had nothing to do with the creation of the video, yet they claimed in the suit,
The customer contacted them about it, it was created in CA and published to YouTube, so they have no problem lying to the court.
Almost the entire basis for their claim against me is going back to the now settled issue between GAP and Tac Ops, which was sorted out in 2007. They are using the old posts from that back and forth to say it happened to them. They believe from my read, they can question me about the 2007 incident and then scream, "Ah Ha" to the court and snag me for this. Back in 2010 when they first threatened me with this exact suit, they were citing the stuff that happened with Tac Ops not Tactical Rifles. However it was nothing close, the fact all parties are now friends and business associates is gonna rain down hard on them. Besides the simple fact it never had anything to do with TR, ever. I think he likes pretending he is Tac Ops which probably why he named the company like he did. Same thing with the M40 rifle designation, he likes the confusion it causes, and the potential customers it might trick.
They have no issue lying to the court about a number of these claims, so we fight it.
We wanted to address this and not let it sit out there hovering.
it's so bad, it needs to be met head on. Besides I paid the lawyer i might as well use him.
it's so bad, it needs to be met head on. Besides I paid the lawyer i might as well use him.
This hunt for information is the fishing expedition hoped for by the crew of the SS TR, with Commander Rooney at the helm. Festooned in the garb of a Napoleonic admiral he seeks to gut hook a red herring fattened by a diet of anti TR conspiracy. I doubt he will get far beyond the breakwater before being swamped. But if he does, he will find that discovery is a two-way current.
One thing he has done with some success is to convince a few members of an unwitting public that there are dark and unseen goblin forces behind the Snipers Hide logo. I have had the surprise experience of actually meeting one of these fellows in person and explaining to him that I am in fact one of the reckless fools Rooney managed to part money from in exchange for an abomination of a rifle. He had a hard time digesting this information and seemed in a bit of a daze when we parted ways. After recovering from the backache that conversation caused me I began to believe even more strongly that this was exactly the point of his suit, an advertising campaign in the guise of a lawsuit aimed at discrediting any customer complaints while putting on a show of overwrought indignation.
While I have relayed my story on several occasions to fellow shooters, I now keep a copy of the complete thread which is the topic of my TR rifle and a copy of the email exchange between Rooney and the customer that are the topic of the now famous video. What Rooney's argument amounts to is a statement that such customer experiences are as mythical as a three-toed Loch Ness unicorn and that any negative murmurings of TR quality are the machinations of evil men who could only succeed by inventing such customer discontent.
One thing he has done with some success is to convince a few members of an unwitting public that there are dark and unseen goblin forces behind the Snipers Hide logo. I have had the surprise experience of actually meeting one of these fellows in person and explaining to him that I am in fact one of the reckless fools Rooney managed to part money from in exchange for an abomination of a rifle. He had a hard time digesting this information and seemed in a bit of a daze when we parted ways. After recovering from the backache that conversation caused me I began to believe even more strongly that this was exactly the point of his suit, an advertising campaign in the guise of a lawsuit aimed at discrediting any customer complaints while putting on a show of overwrought indignation.
While I have relayed my story on several occasions to fellow shooters, I now keep a copy of the complete thread which is the topic of my TR rifle and a copy of the email exchange between Rooney and the customer that are the topic of the now famous video. What Rooney's argument amounts to is a statement that such customer experiences are as mythical as a three-toed Loch Ness unicorn and that any negative murmurings of TR quality are the machinations of evil men who could only succeed by inventing such customer discontent.
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<--- Raises hand with questions:
A) Do you have any financial interest in any of the well known rifle builders here on this site?
B) Do you receive any form of compensation tied to a rifle that is built for a customer stemming from SH?
C) Is vendor advertising on SH an opportunity available to allreputable firms that meet certain criteria?
If the answers are No, No, and yes I struggle to understand how one could reasonably claim that you would have incentive to / profit by / desire to make such a video. What are they claiming was your motivation (probably aren't).
The only stated claim of motivation is the charge I get free stuff in exchange for the multiple screen names.
The question for you would be, do you see people curiously attacking the competition of the smiths on here ? And with that charge how do they not secretly attack each other while being presented with the knowledge they can buy me off with product in exchange for a mystery account to attack the others who are in fact also their competition.
In their context, all the smiths on here really only attack TR, so it's a grand conspiracy involving all the smiths you see represented on here. Although I haven't reconciled the positive involving guys who are talked about but are not paying vendors.
Its the worlds greatest juggling act....
The question for you would be, do you see people curiously attacking the competition of the smiths on here ? And with that charge how do they not secretly attack each other while being presented with the knowledge they can buy me off with product in exchange for a mystery account to attack the others who are in fact also their competition.
In their context, all the smiths on here really only attack TR, so it's a grand conspiracy involving all the smiths you see represented on here. Although I haven't reconciled the positive involving guys who are talked about but are not paying vendors.
Its the worlds greatest juggling act....
One thing is for sure. I doubt anyone from SH would now purchase a rifle from TR. So in essence, instead of correcting things by "doing it right" TR only created such bad press for themselves that it's a proverbial shot in the foot.
It's unfortunate how some people have to be beat over the head with a club before learning a lesson. All the members of SH can now hum Taps in unison.
It's unfortunate how some people have to be beat over the head with a club before learning a lesson. All the members of SH can now hum Taps in unison.
I am new to this site, and must say the members here have forgotten more about precision shooting than I will probably ever know. It is a very valuable resource to shooting enthusiasts and professionals alike.
Any business that threatens and sues unhappy customers is doomed. Word will get around.
...Gotta love some Brit A-hole coming here and abusing our justice system to peddle his poorly made wares. He must love rifles because that's the only way he fends off all the ass-kickings he has coming.
Any business that threatens and sues unhappy customers is doomed. Word will get around.
...Gotta love some Brit A-hole coming here and abusing our justice system to peddle his poorly made wares. He must love rifles because that's the only way he fends off all the ass-kickings he has coming.
May I ask what happened between GAP and Tac-Ops?
Glad to hear that everythings resolved now because from what Ive seen both are top of the food chain smiths and I plan on having a rifle built by one, if not both of them.
Fan boys got into a butt hurt argument, which neither company had any part of, Frank told everyone to quit acting like whinny bitches or he was going to blast that ass with the ban hammer. All was good in Sniperland thereafter.
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