Words to live by. Here in podunk, I even keep a laminated copy of my transfer forms, and the paperwork for my AR pistol braces in my range bags. Plenty of Barney Fife types around here at the USFS ranges.
Words to live by. Here in podunk, I even keep a laminated copy of my transfer forms, and the paperwork for my AR pistol braces in my range bags. Plenty of Barney Fife types around here at the USFS ranges.
The strength to weight ratio is important because a solid beam has to hold up it's own weight. An I-beam holds less weight. This is how it applies to a barrel. Think of a bunch of I-beams configured in a circle. The strength is 360 degrees yet lighter than a full weight barrel. Which in this case does not (usually) reach a span where it's own weight becomes a detriment.
In most manufacturing processes, material is removed from the parts before assembly. Aircraft parts, bridge parts, building materials all have excess removed before installation. Yes, a barrel is fluted before it's installed on a rifle, but that isn't the same as multiple parts having this done to lighten them up, yet strengthen the piece to be built.
As to the hole in the center of a barrel, I wouldn't say that's necessarily true. Even though you have tensile and compressive forces working at the same time against each other in the bending moment (moment as in physics, not space in time). The inside radius will have to be compressed and the outside radius will have to be stretched (tensile force). If the radius is too small the center hole will collapse. Unless you have a solid piece of tooling in it, that helps it retain it's shape, called, no kidding, a bullet. This is common practice in tube and pipe bending.
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Yeah, I know the rules. Not sure why you quoted me. There's no doubt this is a SBR. 6" 300 Blackout.
I agree with what you're saying when it comes to comparing a fluted barrel with an unfluted one of equal mass and cross-sectional area, but with the unfluted barrel having smaller diameter. With two barrels of equal diameter, one with flutes and one without, the one without flutes is always stronger. I can understand what you mean with the idea of 360 degree I-beams, and how it seems theoretically it would be stronger, but both mathematically and in practice, the opposite is true.
As tcole75 posted:Yeah, I know the rules. Not sure why you quoted me. There's no doubt this is a SBR. 6" 300 Blackout.
That he didn’t need a tax stamp for a 14 inch barrel because it had a suppressor screwed on making it within the 16 inches for his ar.
This makes it sound as though all the guy thought he needed was a tax stamp for the suppressor. If your suppressor is not "affixed", it also requires a NFA stamp. Two stamps for one gun.
So, when you posted:
I'd have to say the NFA misinformation is the worst. Hey asshole, I'm the one shooting the suppressed SBR..
I thought I'd mention it takes two stamps. In that specific case
I don't know what to tell ya. I've been working as an aircraft mechanic for almost 25 years and everything in an aircraft is as lightened as it can get yet still be as strong.
Ah, ok. Yeah, that's a two stamp gun. I agree. I had yet to read that post.
I know what is supposed to happen, I just want to put the 2 diff pcs in a press and test, and until I do, no one will ever change my mind, lol
It would be a 2 stamp gun unless it was an ar pistol.
True. I just assumed it was a rifle. So, yeah, it could be a one stamp gun.
"It is impossible for a .308 to cycle with a suppressor, you have to load them one at a time."
A fella told me that the black paint on Armor Piercing ammo is "Special Thermo Paint" and when the bullet hits a piece of steel it burns thru the plate. He knows this "Cause my daddy was in Nam "
Need a scope for my DD 16" 300Blk. So I figure while I'm at the Aug NASCAR races in Michigan I'll go to the Cabela's in Dundee. Go Friday and meander my way to the back and wait to get helped. First guy was happy enough to just help me out. Hand me scopes I point at, find batteries if they are dead. Was looking at all the LPVO they had. Half through what they had another guy starts to help and eventually asks "What is this gong to be for." My reply "16 inch 300Blk supersonic." To which this guy goes, "What do you need this kind of magnification for on 300Blk?"
Talking in a tone as if 100 yard sub sonic is the only thing it can do and supersonic doesn't exist and capable of 300 yards. I stopped looking through the Eotech Vudoo I had in my hand at the time, handed it back to the guy helping me originally and said thanks for the help and walked away.
Got home, Monday, shoot an email to NF for the price list for Mil/LEO and ordered an NX8 with lightweight rings.
Don't open your big fat stupid fucking face on a caliber you don't understand.
Talking in a tone as if 100 yard sub sonic is the only thing it can do and supersonic doesn't exist and capable of 300 yards. I stopped looking through the Eotech Vudoo I had in my hand at the time, handed it back to the guy helping me originally and said thanks for the help and walked away.
Got home, Monday, shoot an email to NF for the price list for Mil/LEO and ordered an NX8 with lightweight rings.
Don't open your big fat stupid fucking face on a caliber you don't understand.
I overheard recently while at the range that only people with man buns shoot 6.5 Creedmoor, that the caliber is a fad, and that 308 is superior in every way to 6.5
No its not. A fluted barrel is stiffer than a thinner barrel of the same weight. It is not stiffer than heavier barrel of the same diameter. That is basic physics. Flutes do not make a barrel stiffer. You even posted a link a couple posts up that said the opposite of what you said.
Conclusion: the fluted barrel is much lighter, much less rigid, and has much more surface area than a solid barrel of the same diameter.
Conclusion: the fluted barrel is significantly more rigid, and has much more surface area than a solid barrel of the same weight.
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People don't think about it that way, because they usually choose a contour and then decide fluted or unfluted. They don't pick their barrels by weight. That's where the confusion comes from. Definitely not among the stupidest things I've heard. I think some confusion there is understandable.
Another "controversy" that I think is stupid, and that Bryan Litz's testing has disproved, is bullets "go to sleep". I'm sorry if you still believe this, but to me this is just making shit up to try and explain something you don't understand. If your groups have less angle at distance than up close it's because you shot better on that string, period. Not because of some magic forces/spin drift effect.
Sometimes in shooting and guns you get data that doesn't make any sense. You try and figure it out, but then you go out again and all of a sudden things are falling where they should, and you forget about it and move on. This is conducive to makin' shit up by trying to interpret/explain bad data. Sometimes it's just bad, and you're not going to figure it out. Sometimes you miss a shot that "felt" good. Sometimes you jerk shoot a bulls eye. Keeps things interesting.
Another "controversy" that I think is stupid, and that Bryan Litz's testing has disproved, is bullets "go to sleep". I'm sorry if you still believe this, but to me this is just making shit up to try and explain something you don't understand. If your groups have less angle at distance than up close it's because you shot better on that string, period. Not because of some magic forces/spin drift effect.
Sometimes in shooting and guns you get data that doesn't make any sense. You try and figure it out, but then you go out again and all of a sudden things are falling where they should, and you forget about it and move on. This is conducive to makin' shit up by trying to interpret/explain bad data. Sometimes it's just bad, and you're not going to figure it out. Sometimes you miss a shot that "felt" good. Sometimes you jerk shoot a bulls eye. Keeps things interesting.
"That's a lot of money for a gun"...wife
Perhaps my post is not written clearly enough. The way I read them, my post and your post agree with each other. I believe where the confusion lies is in my last sentence, where what I meant is that, mathematically and in practice, flutes do not make a barrel stronger (when compared to an identical non-fluted barrel).
The first sentence of my post that you quoted corresponds to your second conclusion, and the second sentence of mine to your first conclusion.
Unless I'm missing something major, our posts say the same thing, albeit yours is written more eloquently.
Nope, I just completed misread it actually. I even went back and read it several times, each time thinking it said "the one with flutes will always be stronger." Then i scrolled up more and found your link and thought, "how did he read that and still get it backwards. God damn, reading comprehension is dead." LOL. It sure is! LOL at me.
Stupidest thing ive been told? That .223 and 5.56 are not interchangeable.
Nope, I just completed misread it actually. I even went back and read it several times, each time thinking it said "the one with flutes will always be stronger." Then i scrolled up more and found your link and thought, "how did he read that and still get it backwards. God damn, reading comprehension is dead." LOL. It sure is! LOL at me.
Ahh, I see lol. I was sitting here reading your post and thinking, "Man, I really feel like that's what I said." But I was starting to second guess myself and I read your post about 15 times trying to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Glad we got that cleared up! Lol
Technically they aren't. The 5.56 chamber has a longer and larger diameter throat and bullets loaded to 5.56 spec can be into the lands in a standard 223 chamber causing pressure problems.
neither are 308 win and 7.62 NATO...
The only reason SAAMI says you cannot interchange 5.56 and 223 is because 5.56 is not a saami approved cartrage so leagly they cannot approve it in any chamber. The pressure differences have never been completely confirmed however both cartraged maintain a pressure range between 50k and 60k psi for the chamber witch is safe in “both” chambers. 3200 fps is not a hot load load for 55gr ammo in either 5.56 or .223. Both preform equally. The only REAL difference is 5.56 generaly has crimped primers.
http://ultimatereloader.com/2018/08/05/223-vs-5-56-facts-and-myths/#acceptLicense
"Yes, the 5.56 NATO chamber is “a couple thousandths larger here and there” – but the most important difference is the freebore (lead) length. The freebore is the smooth portion of the bore (with no rifling, oversize compared to the bullet) that accounts for variations in bullet ogive/length, and gives the bullet some “room” to exit the cartridge slightly before the throat guides the bullet into the rifling. With twice the freebore length (0.050″ for 5.56 NATO compared to 0.025″ for 223 Remington) the 5.56 NATO chamber can safely accomodate cartridges that produce slightly higher peak pressure, and bullets that have extended ogives. Other than this freebore difference, the rest of the “deltas” can account for enhanced reliability for 5.56, and can cause 5.56 chambered rifle accuracy to suffer somewhat compared to otherwise equivalent 223 Remington chambered rifles."
This is why you shouldn't shoot 5.56 ammo in a 223 chamber. Probably, why there are so many Wylde chambers out there now.
or why we chamber them with a much longer freebore than the typical spec
And in all that time you've learned nothing about beam mechanics.
On a camping trip I hear coyotes barking and raising hell . A guy in the camp had a 7mm rem mag. I woke him up early in the morning , and said give me you’re gun I’m gonna shoot them .(coyotes being a huge problem in this area) With no range finder i would guess the one I shot at was 250 yards . Just a guess . So I aimed at the top of its head and shot . Missed extremely high . “It’s sighted in dead on at 700 yards!” ...... Is what I was told when I got back to the camp .
As in "Beam me up Scotty" kind of mechanics? I've worked on a multitude of aircraft all the way from single seat dope and fabric up to the 777-200 and 747-400. I have a pretty good idea about beam strength and it's applications.
All I'm saying to that subject is two barrels of the same weight and material, the one with the larger diameter due to the fluting will be stronger. The solid barrel will be stronger overall.
I had to read that about about ten times, to get it. Yea, Two barrels same weight and material, the fluted one will be stiffer because of its larger diameter. A non fluted barrel ,of the same diameter, would be stiffer but heavier than a lighter fluted barrel of the same diameter.
I get it. Every mechanic in the world thinks they don't need engineers. Call me when you get hired to design structures that peoples lives depend on.
I didn't design the shit. I just work on it and see it. And believe me, if there is one industry that always trying to get lighter, it's aviation. Per your prior post, I would think you would know that.
BTW, I'm here in the land of engineers...MTU. Yah, we need engineers, cuz a lot of people around the world think stuff just invents itself.
Today I heard a great one...coming from a guy that couldn't zero his rifle after 30 shots. Got it done for him in 5 shots a couple of months ago. He and his bud were shooting rimfire at 75 yards and high fiving each other over 3 inch groups...laughing!
A couple of other guys show up. One had a 10/22 and was having a difficult time with zeroing it. The idiot was trying to teach them how to zero a scope..still getting it completely wrong. He then tells the guy who had a Burris scope on his 10/22 that he had the wrong scope..."You have to make sure that you buy a rimfire scope otherwise the recoil pulse would destroy the scope." This coming from him who uses a $120 Chicom POS scope.
I usually just smile and keep to myself. However, I decided this guy was passing horrific advice so I butted in and helped the other guy out. We got him zeroed at 50 yards in five shots. The idiot was pissed and told me that I didn't know about rimfire....I said I have a C note in my pocket...you feeling good? I put it on my mat. I said what are you waiting for? Your rifle...your scope...We will take 3 sighters each and then 5 shots on each of two targets. Smallest group wins. He said that he couldn't afford a C note...I said OK. How about 5 bucks...he said I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else.
I smiled and said...you just did
A couple of other guys show up. One had a 10/22 and was having a difficult time with zeroing it. The idiot was trying to teach them how to zero a scope..still getting it completely wrong. He then tells the guy who had a Burris scope on his 10/22 that he had the wrong scope..."You have to make sure that you buy a rimfire scope otherwise the recoil pulse would destroy the scope." This coming from him who uses a $120 Chicom POS scope.
I usually just smile and keep to myself. However, I decided this guy was passing horrific advice so I butted in and helped the other guy out. We got him zeroed at 50 yards in five shots. The idiot was pissed and told me that I didn't know about rimfire....I said I have a C note in my pocket...you feeling good? I put it on my mat. I said what are you waiting for? Your rifle...your scope...We will take 3 sighters each and then 5 shots on each of two targets. Smallest group wins. He said that he couldn't afford a C note...I said OK. How about 5 bucks...he said I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else.
I smiled and said...you just did
Funny, I've heard that for years and years. Never had a regular scope fail on a rimfire. In fact my 50+ year old Weaver K4 sits on a CZ 452 and has fired thousands of shots. No springs hangin' in the sight picture, no bunged crosshairs, etc. Glad you got the guy zeroed.
It's a pellet rifle issue though I believeFunny, I've heard that for years and years. Never had a regular scope fail on a rimfire. In fact my 50+ year old Weaver K4 sits on a CZ 452 and has fired thousands of shots. No springs hangin' in the sight picture, no bunged crosshairs, etc. Glad you got the guy zeroed.
Funny, I've heard that for years and years. Never had a regular scope fail on a rimfire. In fact my 50+ year old Weaver K4 sits on a CZ 452 and has fired thousands of shots. No springs hangin' in the sight picture, no bunged crosshairs, etc. Glad you got the guy zeroed.
I have a couple of good friends that do benchrest rimfire and both have conventional scopes from NF and S&B. I wouldn’t even fathom to guess how many rounds they put through their rifles and I have never heard of a scope problem from either.
I have heard of this occurring with PCP air rifles as @b6graham mentions but never on a rimfire.
Funny, I've heard that for years and years. Never had a regular scope fail on a rimfire. In fact my 50+ year old Weaver K4 sits on a CZ 452 and has fired thousands of shots. No springs hangin' in the sight picture, no bunged crosshairs, etc. Glad you got the guy zeroed.
LOL. The Tasco World Class on my dads 10/22 must have seen at least 100k rounds since my childhood. Although when he gave it to me, this year, I retired the scope. Still holds zero, kind of looks like looking through a tinted window
The funny thing here is that once your barrel is strong enough (very thin pencil profile), strength doesn't matter. Barrel whip is what you're trying to control and that's determined by stiffness, weight and the speed of your bullet.
If I had to guess on tensile and shear strength, a fluted barrel would be weaker than a cylindrical barrel of equal weight because fluting has more surface area and crack propogation always starts at the surface. Compression strength might be better for fluted because skinnier beams are easier to buckle.
The design of high performance structures is not terribly complicated but it's not immediately obvious to most people who are trying to do it...
I did just that today...minded my own business and focused on the task at hand
I belong to a local VFW that has a pistol and rifle range. It's on my way home from work so it's very convenient and the ranges are deserted about 95% of the time I use them.
But when someone else IS there, the derp quotient is almost always through the fucking roof. The last pack of dumbasses were a group that, from their conversations, appeared to have been in IRQ/AFG in some POG unit.
Their "leader" was some fat ass with an Army SNCO pin on his hat and the stupid shit that came out of his mouth was epic. I just smiled to myself and avoided them like the plague. At least they were safe gun handlers, which is much more than I can say about others I've run into there.
Cabell's is the 7-11 of gun stores!
Today at the LGS, “Cant matters. You can’t shoot past 1000 yards without a level on your scope.”
And, “There’s a meplat on match bullets to move the center of gravity towards the rear of the bullet.”
I read an article that said u have line of sight and point of impact and since scope is on top it will intersect with poi and some cals. Will peak over that los. within 100 yds. Hope this helps.
Anything that came out of my Ex-wife's mouth.
I asked a gunstore clerk one day if they had heard anything about the 10/22 takedown being much less accurate than a traditional 10/22, or if they locked up well enough to be about as accurate. I was greeted with a blank stare and they answered with "Well, they call it the 10/22 takedown because its more powerful, so its more suited to the larger side of small game. Its better for rabbits and stuff."
I just said, "Oh! Cool man, thanks." and walked away while I could.
I just said, "Oh! Cool man, thanks." and walked away while I could.
