Dear Members...just got new rifle and manual said Moly coated bullet is not recommended. What's wrong Please?
What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
- Thread starter jumboXS
- Start date
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
The manual probably says not to shoot reloaded ammo also.
The manual probably says not to shoot reloaded ammo also.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Hmm a bullet that is coated to reduce friction therfore giving you better barrel life... So long as it's accurate out of your rifle it should be no problem. Just make sure it's the right sized bullet otherwise you WILL run into problems. Enjoy your new rifle.
Hmm a bullet that is coated to reduce friction therfore giving you better barrel life... So long as it's accurate out of your rifle it should be no problem. Just make sure it's the right sized bullet otherwise you WILL run into problems. Enjoy your new rifle.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Shooting moly bullets can cause a "black ring"
http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/barrel_breakin_II.asp
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/moly.htm
Read the two above to find out
Shooting moly bullets can cause a "black ring"
http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/barrel_breakin_II.asp
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/moly.htm
Read the two above to find out
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting moly bullets can cause a "black ring"
http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/barrel_breakin_II.asp
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/moly.htm
Read the two above to find out </div></div>
For every article you find as quoted above, there are plenty telling how well it works. As in this pdf file from Tubb - you would be hard pressed to beat his track record:
Tubb on Moly
I am a big fan and coat every bullet I load. I also know everyone has their own opinion.
I choose to do my own testing and base my decision on my personal findings. I have been borescoping barrels for 10 years now and I have yet to see a ring on any barrels of mine.
I will stick with my process as I've found no fault at all with moly and I don't clean my barrels even remotely as much as my friends that shoot naked bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting moly bullets can cause a "black ring"
http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/barrel_breakin_II.asp
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/moly.htm
Read the two above to find out </div></div>
For every article you find as quoted above, there are plenty telling how well it works. As in this pdf file from Tubb - you would be hard pressed to beat his track record:
Tubb on Moly
I am a big fan and coat every bullet I load. I also know everyone has their own opinion.
I choose to do my own testing and base my decision on my personal findings. I have been borescoping barrels for 10 years now and I have yet to see a ring on any barrels of mine.
I will stick with my process as I've found no fault at all with moly and I don't clean my barrels even remotely as much as my friends that shoot naked bullets.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
I may be wrong,but I believe Tubb has changed to HBN.
HBN seems to be a superior product to moly and from using both is much easier and cheaper to use,not to mention the filthy black mess from moly.
I may be wrong,but I believe Tubb has changed to HBN.
HBN seems to be a superior product to moly and from using both is much easier and cheaper to use,not to mention the filthy black mess from moly.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Moly is a MAJOR pain in the ass to clean out of a gun barrel.And if not cleaned properly you'll have a fouled barrel that will hurt accuracy.
Moly is a MAJOR pain in the ass to clean out of a gun barrel.And if not cleaned properly you'll have a fouled barrel that will hurt accuracy.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what rifle is this ?? </div></div>
Les Baer's bolt rifle.
I'm curious about this warning/recommendation from LB as well as in this part of world we only have access to 168 moly coated HPBT or Lapua 185 FMJBT.
So if we can not (should not) shoot the moly coated 168, this would present a problem as the 185 are getting harder to find these days.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what rifle is this ?? </div></div>
Les Baer's bolt rifle.
I'm curious about this warning/recommendation from LB as well as in this part of world we only have access to 168 moly coated HPBT or Lapua 185 FMJBT.
So if we can not (should not) shoot the moly coated 168, this would present a problem as the 185 are getting harder to find these days.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
I don't have a borescope, so I can't say that I've seen the Black Ring. I can say that I've used Moly exclusively with my reloaded ammo in .308 Win, .260 Rem, and 6mm/250. I have not experienced any of the negative effects that are attributed to Moly.
A normal cleaning regimen will keep any buildup at bay, and the use of Kroil penetrating oil seems to help, but I can't prove it.
Barrel life is about the same as can be expected when shooting naked bullets. A Krieger in .260 rem went south around 2700 rounds and I ended up changing it out at 3100 rounds when there was no getting around the issue of lower scores in the last match of three in F class competition at 1000 yds.(3 20 shot matches for a 600 point aggregate).
4100 rnds and still counting in my Krieger chambered in .308, but the 6mm/250 was a little harder on it's Krieger and was changed out around 2200 rounds.
Moly or not, Tactical or Target, I don't think the bullet in flight really cares.
Paul
I don't have a borescope, so I can't say that I've seen the Black Ring. I can say that I've used Moly exclusively with my reloaded ammo in .308 Win, .260 Rem, and 6mm/250. I have not experienced any of the negative effects that are attributed to Moly.
A normal cleaning regimen will keep any buildup at bay, and the use of Kroil penetrating oil seems to help, but I can't prove it.
Barrel life is about the same as can be expected when shooting naked bullets. A Krieger in .260 rem went south around 2700 rounds and I ended up changing it out at 3100 rounds when there was no getting around the issue of lower scores in the last match of three in F class competition at 1000 yds.(3 20 shot matches for a 600 point aggregate).
4100 rnds and still counting in my Krieger chambered in .308, but the 6mm/250 was a little harder on it's Krieger and was changed out around 2200 rounds.
Moly or not, Tactical or Target, I don't think the bullet in flight really cares.
Paul
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pjparker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Barrel life is about the same as can be expected when shooting naked bullets. </div></div>
If you're not getting better barrel life, why do you use moly?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pjparker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Barrel life is about the same as can be expected when shooting naked bullets. </div></div>
If you're not getting better barrel life, why do you use moly?
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pjparker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel life is about the same as can be expected when shooting naked bullets.
Moly or not, Tactical or Target, I don't think the bullet in flight really cares.
Paul </div></div>
I agree with Paul.
Friction has very, very little to do with barrel wear.
Moly does allow slightly higher velocities. Not real sure about the cleaning thing. We have gone 600-800 rounds w/o cleaning and still had match accuracy while using naked bullets in good barrels.
A few years ago Precision Shooting magazine published a couple of very good articles. One was on Cryo treated barrels and one was on Moly bullets. Both articles documented tests run by Sierra Bullets using test tunnels and multiple barrels in their bench fixtures. Since this test was basically a blind test with good controls and using many bullets through a dozen barrels, I figure it carries some statistical weight.
They concluded that the Moly may allow slightly higher velocities and <span style="font-weight: bold">maybe</span> (numbers are so small they can't rule out coincidence = less than 4%) slightly more barrel life. Moly did not improve accuracy or any realistic barrel life but did carry its own needs for special cleaning and reconditioning the bore afterwards.
In my opintion, barrel expansion/compression from pressure as well as very hot plasma type gases are what ruins throats. Neither moly or any other bullet coating is going to prevent that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pjparker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel life is about the same as can be expected when shooting naked bullets.
Moly or not, Tactical or Target, I don't think the bullet in flight really cares.
Paul </div></div>
I agree with Paul.
Friction has very, very little to do with barrel wear.
Moly does allow slightly higher velocities. Not real sure about the cleaning thing. We have gone 600-800 rounds w/o cleaning and still had match accuracy while using naked bullets in good barrels.
A few years ago Precision Shooting magazine published a couple of very good articles. One was on Cryo treated barrels and one was on Moly bullets. Both articles documented tests run by Sierra Bullets using test tunnels and multiple barrels in their bench fixtures. Since this test was basically a blind test with good controls and using many bullets through a dozen barrels, I figure it carries some statistical weight.
They concluded that the Moly may allow slightly higher velocities and <span style="font-weight: bold">maybe</span> (numbers are so small they can't rule out coincidence = less than 4%) slightly more barrel life. Moly did not improve accuracy or any realistic barrel life but did carry its own needs for special cleaning and reconditioning the bore afterwards.
In my opintion, barrel expansion/compression from pressure as well as very hot plasma type gases are what ruins throats. Neither moly or any other bullet coating is going to prevent that.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Thanks, Terry. I've been running hBn in the .260 I got from you to extend the bore life. I'm going to be switching brass soon anyway, and had thought about dropping the coating, just for ease of reloading. If it's not going to make an appreciable difference anyway I probably will drop it.
Thanks, Terry. I've been running hBn in the .260 I got from you to extend the bore life. I'm going to be switching brass soon anyway, and had thought about dropping the coating, just for ease of reloading. If it's not going to make an appreciable difference anyway I probably will drop it.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pjparker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel life is about the same as can be expected when shooting naked bullets.
Moly or not, Tactical or Target, I don't think the bullet in flight really cares.
Paul </div></div>
I agree with Paul.
Friction has very, very little to do with barrel wear.
Moly does allow slightly higher velocities. Not real sure about the cleaning thing. We have gone 600-800 rounds w/o cleaning and still had match accuracy while using naked bullets in good barrels.
A few years ago Precision Shooting magazine published a couple of very good articles. One was on Cryo treated barrels and one was on Moly bullets. Both articles documented tests run by Sierra Bullets using test tunnels and multiple barrels in their bench fixtures. Since this test was basically a blind test with good controls and using many bullets through a dozen barrels, I figure it carries some statistical weight.
They concluded that the Moly may allow slightly higher velocities and <span style="font-weight: bold">maybe</span> (numbers are so small they can't rule out coincidence = less than 4%) slightly more barrel life. <span style="color: #FF0000">Moly did not improve accuracy or any realistic barrel life but did carry its own needs for special cleaning and reconditioning the bore afterwards.</span>
In my opintion, barrel expansion/compression from pressure as well as very hot plasma type gases are what ruins throats. Neither moly or any other bullet coating is going to prevent that. </div></div>
The statement I highlighted above says it all for me. Why in the hell would I want to go through a "special cleaning and reconditioning"... Keep your Moly-coated bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pjparker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel life is about the same as can be expected when shooting naked bullets.
Moly or not, Tactical or Target, I don't think the bullet in flight really cares.
Paul </div></div>
I agree with Paul.
Friction has very, very little to do with barrel wear.
Moly does allow slightly higher velocities. Not real sure about the cleaning thing. We have gone 600-800 rounds w/o cleaning and still had match accuracy while using naked bullets in good barrels.
A few years ago Precision Shooting magazine published a couple of very good articles. One was on Cryo treated barrels and one was on Moly bullets. Both articles documented tests run by Sierra Bullets using test tunnels and multiple barrels in their bench fixtures. Since this test was basically a blind test with good controls and using many bullets through a dozen barrels, I figure it carries some statistical weight.
They concluded that the Moly may allow slightly higher velocities and <span style="font-weight: bold">maybe</span> (numbers are so small they can't rule out coincidence = less than 4%) slightly more barrel life. <span style="color: #FF0000">Moly did not improve accuracy or any realistic barrel life but did carry its own needs for special cleaning and reconditioning the bore afterwards.</span>
In my opintion, barrel expansion/compression from pressure as well as very hot plasma type gases are what ruins throats. Neither moly or any other bullet coating is going to prevent that. </div></div>
The statement I highlighted above says it all for me. Why in the hell would I want to go through a "special cleaning and reconditioning"... Keep your Moly-coated bullets.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Hmmm..... Think I'll throw in my .02 here.
I've got two rifles that shoot only moly-coated bullets. One is an SPS in .223 and the other a .22-250AI. I'm running the .223 at moderate velocities, don't have 'em handy, and the AI at 3940fps (which will probably go up, I'd like to hit 4100) and they are both using 50gr bullets.
After a Montana trip with somewhere around 800 rounds fired in three days, the .223 cleaned up in five or six patches. Several hundred rounds later, still without cleaning, it's accurate enough to pop sage rats at around 300 yards. Proved it again last weekend.
The .22-250 only has a couple hundred rounds through it, been swabbed with Kroil once just out of curiousity, and kills rockchucks at 500 yards.
I shoot moly because I'd rather shoot then clean. That said, I haven't switched my competition rigs to moly, mostly because they like the load I already have.
That's my experience, and I believe it's typical of most moly shooters.
1911fan
Hmmm..... Think I'll throw in my .02 here.
I've got two rifles that shoot only moly-coated bullets. One is an SPS in .223 and the other a .22-250AI. I'm running the .223 at moderate velocities, don't have 'em handy, and the AI at 3940fps (which will probably go up, I'd like to hit 4100) and they are both using 50gr bullets.
After a Montana trip with somewhere around 800 rounds fired in three days, the .223 cleaned up in five or six patches. Several hundred rounds later, still without cleaning, it's accurate enough to pop sage rats at around 300 yards. Proved it again last weekend.
The .22-250 only has a couple hundred rounds through it, been swabbed with Kroil once just out of curiousity, and kills rockchucks at 500 yards.
I shoot moly because I'd rather shoot then clean. That said, I haven't switched my competition rigs to moly, mostly because they like the load I already have.
That's my experience, and I believe it's typical of most moly shooters.
1911fan
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
I have been shooting moly in a couple of diffrent rifles for about 10 years, one being a savage 220 AI that has right at 4800 rounds down the pipe and it will still avearge about .5 moa and thats shooting 69 gr SMKs at 3600 fps. I dont really know if moly has anything to do with it lasting this long or not but i think ill stick with it.
Steve
I have been shooting moly in a couple of diffrent rifles for about 10 years, one being a savage 220 AI that has right at 4800 rounds down the pipe and it will still avearge about .5 moa and thats shooting 69 gr SMKs at 3600 fps. I dont really know if moly has anything to do with it lasting this long or not but i think ill stick with it.
Steve
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
I have shot moly bullets for years after having issues with fouling in a 22-243, 45gr 4500fps, 50gr 4000fps.
I read all the stuff about it at the time & decided to go for it.
I reload for all my rifles so coated for all of them.
I found that they rarely need cleaning.
The down side is that in my winter climate hunting pigs at night condensation is present, along with rain water & the moly promoted corosion in the barrels.
I have since changed to HBN.
The HBN doesn't seem to be as slippery as moly as I had to back the loads off a grain or two in both of my 22-243s.
I will continue to coat unless I see a significant downside.
I have shot moly bullets for years after having issues with fouling in a 22-243, 45gr 4500fps, 50gr 4000fps.
I read all the stuff about it at the time & decided to go for it.
I reload for all my rifles so coated for all of them.
I found that they rarely need cleaning.
The down side is that in my winter climate hunting pigs at night condensation is present, along with rain water & the moly promoted corosion in the barrels.
I have since changed to HBN.
The HBN doesn't seem to be as slippery as moly as I had to back the loads off a grain or two in both of my 22-243s.
I will continue to coat unless I see a significant downside.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
I bought an entry level 50cal single shot rifle and was told my the maker to shoot only Barrett moly coated bullets.
Not alott of rounds down the barrel but have not noticed and black fouling.
I bought an entry level 50cal single shot rifle and was told my the maker to shoot only Barrett moly coated bullets.
Not alott of rounds down the barrel but have not noticed and black fouling.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
It will damage the bore i just shoot and clean the same using Molly as i do with naked bullets just takes more shooting until i cleen.
If you can only get Molly use them as they will work for you.
It will damage the bore i just shoot and clean the same using Molly as i do with naked bullets just takes more shooting until i cleen.
If you can only get Molly use them as they will work for you.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Use Shooters choice cut with Kroil. 90%Shooters choice and 10% Kroil. It works wonders on the moly.
Use Shooters choice cut with Kroil. 90%Shooters choice and 10% Kroil. It works wonders on the moly.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
I did find that Moly seemed to extend the accuracy "sweet spot" so to speak, as mentioned by others. The number of rounds between cleanings seemed to me to be significantly better than naked bullets before accuracy suffered due to fouling.
I have been moly coating mainly because I have the stuff to do it with, and my loads are developed with it. If I stop moly coating I have to start over with load development. So guess what - I just keep doing it, it only takes a couple of steps more in the loading process.
I will probably not use moly in my next rifle or barrel, whichever comes first, simply because I'm going to clean after each match anyway. So, the only real advantage I've seen to moly is really a non-issue unless there will be some big round counts between cleanings -200 to 300.
Your mileage may vary - these are just my observations from midrange and longrange known distance target shooting.
Paul
I did find that Moly seemed to extend the accuracy "sweet spot" so to speak, as mentioned by others. The number of rounds between cleanings seemed to me to be significantly better than naked bullets before accuracy suffered due to fouling.
I have been moly coating mainly because I have the stuff to do it with, and my loads are developed with it. If I stop moly coating I have to start over with load development. So guess what - I just keep doing it, it only takes a couple of steps more in the loading process.
I will probably not use moly in my next rifle or barrel, whichever comes first, simply because I'm going to clean after each match anyway. So, the only real advantage I've seen to moly is really a non-issue unless there will be some big round counts between cleanings -200 to 300.
Your mileage may vary - these are just my observations from midrange and longrange known distance target shooting.
Paul
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
I used moly back when it first came out. I did have some good results but it was such a pain. I can attest to it adding another variable. Now I don't usually use it. I do keep it under the reloading bench incase I have a problem gun.
I used moly back when it first came out. I did have some good results but it was such a pain. I can attest to it adding another variable. Now I don't usually use it. I do keep it under the reloading bench incase I have a problem gun.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Hmmn. My local guy only has Hornady Match in moly. It is the only match ammo I can buy locally. I guess I don't understand the requirements or special needs, can someone break things down for me? For example, I have 40 rounds of FGMM at home, and I can get Hornady Match Moly. I have more Federal on order.
So say I shoot through the Federal, then break into the Hornady, do I need to clean before going back to the Federal? Am I better off shooting the Hornady first, then cleaning? Or do I just not worry about it?
I guess I just don't understand the "moly danger." Can someone break it down for me?
Hmmn. My local guy only has Hornady Match in moly. It is the only match ammo I can buy locally. I guess I don't understand the requirements or special needs, can someone break things down for me? For example, I have 40 rounds of FGMM at home, and I can get Hornady Match Moly. I have more Federal on order.
So say I shoot through the Federal, then break into the Hornady, do I need to clean before going back to the Federal? Am I better off shooting the Hornady first, then cleaning? Or do I just not worry about it?
I guess I just don't understand the "moly danger." Can someone break it down for me?
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
We have a Hide member that just returned from a Highpower clinic with the Marine Shooting Team and the Marines are claiming to be using moly coated bullets for the 200 and 300 yrd stages and no moly at the 600! Everything I thought I new about moly is under suspicion now!
We have a Hide member that just returned from a Highpower clinic with the Marine Shooting Team and the Marines are claiming to be using moly coated bullets for the 200 and 300 yrd stages and no moly at the 600! Everything I thought I new about moly is under suspicion now!
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Maybe this information will help on the barrel life:
Moly Coating - Facts, not opinions. Norma Laboratory
Maybe this information will help on the barrel life:
Moly Coating - Facts, not opinions. Norma Laboratory
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Again, could someone please tell me the dangers of shooting moly bullets? I just shot some through my gun (20 rounds, 60 rounds of copper jacketed rounds before that,) does that mean I need to clean it now?
Again, could someone please tell me the dangers of shooting moly bullets? I just shot some through my gun (20 rounds, 60 rounds of copper jacketed rounds before that,) does that mean I need to clean it now?
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
bm11 - There are no "dangers" of shooting the moly. You will NOT get a CLEAR answer from a forum comprised of so many varied opinions.
Moly shooters and naked shooters are just like Chevy vs Ford.
You ask a Moly guy and he wouldn't shoot anything else.
You ask a naked bullet shooter and he has reasons why he thinks you should never let a moly bullet see his barrel let alone travel down it.
Click on the hot key in my last post and read about FACTS done by Norma. Then draw your own conclusion.
If you want my two cents (I have shot moly in all my guns for over 7 years now - many thousands of rounds) - I would clean every bit of copper out of the barrel you are using with some copper solvent, then moly prep the bore, and shoot moly coated bullets and never look back.
I like Moly - I don't like to clean my gun - perfect combination.
I will never shoot naked bullets again. If not Moly coated, then one of the newer coatings that come along.
Your mileage may vary.
bm11 - There are no "dangers" of shooting the moly. You will NOT get a CLEAR answer from a forum comprised of so many varied opinions.
Moly shooters and naked shooters are just like Chevy vs Ford.
You ask a Moly guy and he wouldn't shoot anything else.
You ask a naked bullet shooter and he has reasons why he thinks you should never let a moly bullet see his barrel let alone travel down it.
Click on the hot key in my last post and read about FACTS done by Norma. Then draw your own conclusion.
If you want my two cents (I have shot moly in all my guns for over 7 years now - many thousands of rounds) - I would clean every bit of copper out of the barrel you are using with some copper solvent, then moly prep the bore, and shoot moly coated bullets and never look back.
I like Moly - I don't like to clean my gun - perfect combination.
I will never shoot naked bullets again. If not Moly coated, then one of the newer coatings that come along.
Your mileage may vary.
Re: What's wrong with Moly coated bullet ?
Deadeye- how do you "moly prep the bore?" Do I just "foul" it after cleaning with moly bullets? How many more do I need to shoot after that before I start noticing accuracy improvements?
Also, is it critical that I clean the bore? I put 20 rounds of Hornady Match (moly) through after 60 rounds of FGMM, and it was shooting great. I wasn't really planning on cleaning again until my accuracy started to suffer... do I need to?
Deadeye- how do you "moly prep the bore?" Do I just "foul" it after cleaning with moly bullets? How many more do I need to shoot after that before I start noticing accuracy improvements?
Also, is it critical that I clean the bore? I put 20 rounds of Hornady Match (moly) through after 60 rounds of FGMM, and it was shooting great. I wasn't really planning on cleaning again until my accuracy started to suffer... do I need to?
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