2A
I am always happy to learn. Teach away.
My biggest concern was I was quoted 1 price and the told another when it was very clear how long it took.
The only reason I had them do it was time. The price of the labor vs my time without experience to do it was worth it. At 2.5 hrs billed labor it would not have been.
Should we start using “book times” to bill for medical procedures?
And your stuff about judging and being like an anti gunner is BS and you know it.
There is an extremely big difference in God given rights and business practices.
You are an honest and upstanding guy. You share your knowledge on many things here and its appreciated.
And you know of a ton of guys in your profession who aren't upstanding or honest.
Easy there buddy.
lets address issues, might seem out of order. My mind works that way sometimes so give me a chance.
1st 1.8hrs on T-stat was based on a 2007 GL450 that I work on quite a bit and has a very similar engine bay. I couldn't see the "V6" on the engine cover on my phone this morning. GL450 is a V8 but otherwise the engine cover looks identical and the air intake tubes are pretty close.
Book time on C300 0.7 hrs.
Short story is
@Geno C. Gave a very good description of labor times.
Times are actually done by the factory and are published as "warranty" time. Alldata and On-demand (Mitchell) add 20-30% to the factory times for aftermarket or out of warranty repairs. This is done for a couple of reasons for the aftermarket shops and the OEM dealers don't want to leave money on the table so they use it also. The reasons are that aftermarket shops generally work on higher mileage vehicles with more rust/corrosion and incidentals. The other is when you work on a Chevy cruze one day, a Volvo s60 the next and a Honda Accord the next you can never get super efficent because there is very little day to day repetition.
Since I left the dealer 7 years ago I rarely beat time on a non-ford vehicle and never on the first time. I can't tell you how many times I have done a job. And never done another. So I never get a chance to beat time.
My situation is very very unique and I don't really need to beat time.
To your situation (and anyone reading this). If you were quoted a price then it should be honored unless extenuating circumstances could be proven. I mean if you get quoted 6 hours for an engine and it is supposed to be 16, you have to know 6 was to low.
As far as times go it is always a fight. I know how Ford does theirs and so I can give more detail. I would imagine other OEMs are about the same. Ford has a shop with various experienced techs who do "repairs" and help write the manuals. My understanding is the vehicles are not actually broken, but if the day calls for engine removal on a Explorer then 5-10 engines are removed and reinstalled. The time is what Ford believes that a Tech with 5-7 years of experience can do the job in, after doing the job 5 times. A 10 year tech might get it 1st or 2nd try.
Since all you work on is Ford vehicles their contention is you will loose at first but repetition will make you get ahead in the long run. There is also a tenth or 2 for for paper work, test drive Etc...
A set of glow plugs on a 7.3 powerstroke pays 2.4 hours. That is pull the truck in, test the system, remove both valve covers, replace all 8 glow plugs and reassemble engine, retest system, test drive and complete paper work.
After doing 100's if not 1000's and making a couple tools to help I can do them in 45 minutes. Am I ripping people off, I don't think so.
In the 25 years I worked as the dealer I only got 4 raises, if you want to make more you had to become more efficient. And there was no minimum wage guarantee.
My current situation allows me to do what I want (with in reason). 3 days before Christmas, I gave a glowplug job away to one of my best customers who is a Vietnam Vet (flew Helicopters, not sure if that makes him Army or Marine, by the sounds of it he flew my Uncle around. My Uncle is/was a Marine. But that is not how I met my customer, it just turns out to be a small world). When he came to pick it I told him his bill was $0.00 Merry Christmas.
Back to fighting for labor times. In the late 90's early 2000's there was a suspension recall on the Crown Victoria. The day prior to the recall the job payed 8.6 hours. The day the recall was announced, Ford dropped the time to 4.1hrs. Beings that the recall was for over 400,000 vehicles it was estimated Ford saved 1.8 million labor hours for a value of over $150,000,000. Ford claimed that there were so many that eventually you would make time. I never did one, but we had 3 techs who did most the suspension work and I am pretty sure none of them ever beat time on that recall.
The next quarter Alldata and On-demand both cut their time on the job, so in effect Ford fucked every Tech in the nation. 18ish years later the time still stands. I heard about 300 techs back east got together and tried to sue Ford over that one.
I don't know of a better way to do time. Do you want to pay a 2 year tech double because he is slower. The system rewards good efficient techs. Just think if the DMV was run this way. Or the Highway Dept in your state, pot holes would be repaired a lot faster.
I have 100's of stories, some win some loose.
My statement of Anti-gun vs gun owner had nothing to do with personal right vs business. I am not sure what you do (any of you except a couple) but I would imagine that an outsider would not understand your job without living it, doing it or tagging a long and learning about it.
I find most of the Anti-gun people to be ignorant of guns, having not lived it, not done it nor ever tagged along and learned about it. They judge from a position of ignorance. That is true a lot in life, my wife is a teacher, my mom was a teacher yet I see a lot of teacher bashing on here. Walk a mile in their shoes.
"book time" for medical procedures would have some positives. Body shops have it the worst as the insurance industry controls heavily what they can charge. The medical industry/insurance needs more competition. I have to go to certain hospitals and certain DRs so I am a captive audience. I should be able to take my insurance anywhere. But that is a discussion for another thread.
And as for your statement of " you know of a ton of guys in your profession who aren't upstanding or honest". Uhm yea ALL OF THEM. I have worked with or know a couple hundred techs and I trust 2, the rest are just above used car salesmen. If I die I have made arrangement with the 2 to take care of my wife and and daughter vehicle wise.
In a few ways, my attitude today is trying to make up for sins from my 20's.
PS all that was kind of vague/general, any questions from anyone just ask.