Which AR DPMS,Windham, etc

[Hualapai]

Hi to all,
New to this site and could use some input. Thinking about a first AR, never had one always wanted one. I'm currently looking at the DPMS Panther .308, and the Windham Weaponry versions. I still haven't exactly decided on .223 vs .308. I'm definitely leaning .308 it's mostly the brands and quality I'm wondering about. I understand these are just basic get started units over the counter, but they are in my $$$ range. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[elfster1234]

Target pratice? Hunting? Both? Max yardage for target? Purpose?

Hi to all,
New to this site and could use some input. Thinking about a first AR, never had one always wanted one. I'm currently looking at the DPMS Panther .308, and the Windham Weaponry versions. I still haven't exactly decided on .223 vs .308. I'm definitely leaning .308 it's mostly the brands and quality I'm wondering about. I understand these are just basic get started units over the counter, but they are in my $$$ range. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Pester]

Answering the questions from Elfster and Master will go a long way in getting feedback from the experts here.

If I may..... I went into the local gunshop the other day and they said that sales of the AR platform has really fallen off. As a result they had pretty good prices on new stock and a bunch of consignment guns. You can also find good prices on gently used well taken care of guns here as well. If I were in your shoes I would look for a good used gun until I determine:
1. Do I like this platform enough to stick with it
2. What to I like/dont like about the gun as I shoot it and become used to it
3. what do want to do with the gun

Last two thoughts:
1. If you buy a good used gun you will learn a lot and if you ever want to sell it most of the depreciation has been taken out of the gun before you bought it. That way you will get more money out of it compared to what you paid for it
2. Consumables (mostly ammo) can add up quickly so all things being equal I would look at 223/556 as being a good place to start.
Have fun and be safe

 

[Hualapai]

Well a little bit of hunting varmints possibly deer which eliminates the .223, a little plinking, would also like to see how far out one of these things is effective. I must say the long range stuff intrigues me. Maybe I should be looking at bolt guns instead but I really want an AR. Probably need more than one AR. I'm thinking flat top and optics. Just getting started and have a few hundred in gift cards to one of the big hunting and outdoor joints. DPMS has a deal if you buy before Dec.31 they'll throw in a cleaning system and 4 magazines. Out of town tomorrow will be a bit before I reply again unless I can figure out the tapatalk app. Thanks, Hualapai

 

[Hualapai]

Not so worried about the ammo. I've been reloading since high school and have plenty of supplies for both 5.56 and 7.62.
So what can I expect accuracy wise out of one of these over the counter AR's?

 

[elfster1234]

Save the gift cards for the scope if possible and have the big box store price match optics planet or midwayusa with the scope you have in mind IF they have it stock... And then purchase this


Rock River LAR-8 Predator HP 308 20"

The only downfall to the above link is the magazines

Get a harris 6-9" swivel bipod with notched legs.

Get a nice bobro or larue 158 qd mount with a built in 10moa cant or more.

Scope with 3-15x power or more

Well a little bit of hunting varmints possibly deer which eliminates the .223, a little plinking, would also like to see how far out one of these things is effective. I must say the long range stuff intrigues me. Maybe I should be looking at bolt guns instead but I really want an AR. Probably need more than one AR. I'm thinking flat top and optics. Just getting started and have a few hundred in gift cards to one of the big hunting and outdoor joints. DPMS has a deal if you buy before Dec.31 they'll throw in a cleaning system and 4 magazines. Out of town tomorrow will be a bit before I reply again unless I can figure out the tapatalk app. Thanks, Hualapai

 

[Pester]

some of them are very good. Sub MOA.

Daniels Defense might be one to look at also.

Understood and maybe .308 is a good choice if you are already loading in the 30 cal range. If you are going to shoot at distance optics will become a bigger part of the solution and a bigger part of the cost.

If you havent looked at some of the good used options here I would recommend it. I know its not an exact match to what you are looking for but its a place to start
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/223881-palmetto-state-ar.html

 

[Hualapai]

I appreciate the input elfster, Pester. You guys don't waste any time, how do you keep track of these posts?
I looked at the Rock River elfster. My son has a Rock River AR15 he's the one telling me to get the .308. He's currently in Afganistan and communication is spotty at best. I like it but it is a few hundred more than the DPMS. If I need to avoid the ones I've been looking at so be it but can I eventually get to where I need to be piecemeal or will I be wasting my time and money?
I actually did look at the Daniel Defense web site Pester. I think the NFL ad thing made me curious. Nice stuff, but a bit more than I wanted to pop for initially. As far as used ones go apparently around here people didn't get the memo on prices being down. It's also a 3 hour drive to get to where you can just go look at a bunch of guns that could be considered reasonably priced.

 

[Hualapai]

Thanks Master I'll let him know. Hopefully he'll be back in about 3 months.
He's been telling me 308 get the 308. Don't know why cause he has a RRA in 5.56.
Do you have an AR if so what is it?

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[elfster1234]

What is nice about the rock river option is for only a couple hundred more they just down right shoot out of the box..... Im starting to forget how many RRA's ive owned in my life (maybe 8) that never FTF FTE and wasnt sub moa out of the box... Id put a min 3-15 power scope on it with what i mentioned above and with a small amount of practice with a gas gun (much harder to get groups than a bolt rifle) you would be on the top ten in the shootout threads easy.

If youre going to be shooting over 600yards and up to about 1kplus... Then you will want the 308

I appreciate the input elfster, Pester. You guys don't waste any time, how do you keep track of these posts?
I looked at the Rock River elfster. My son has a Rock River AR15 he's the one telling me to get the .308. He's currently in Afganistan and communication is spotty at best. I like it but it is a few hundred more than the DPMS. If I need to avoid the ones I've been looking at so be it but can I eventually get to where I need to be piecemeal or will I be wasting my time and money?
I actually did look at the Daniel Defense web site Pester. I think the NFL ad thing made me curious. Nice stuff, but a bit more than I wanted to pop for initially. As far as used ones go apparently around here people didn't get the memo on prices being down. It's also a 3 hour drive to get to where you can just go look at a bunch of guns that could be considered reasonably priced.

 

[Hualapai]

Going to the box store tomorrow while on work road trip. Will see what they have and handle them.

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[Hualapai]

So what I'm gathering elfster the RRA you linked above is capable of getting it done at 600+ yards out of the box with a good scope and some good rounds. What did you mean by downfall is the magazines

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[elfster1234]

the 7.62 / .308 RRA rifles can not take PMAGS..... I honestly don't know what the hell RRA is thinking when they made this choice... other than that, they are awesome rifles for the money... I would easy put this rifle up against a GAP10 in terms of accuracy as a very close 2nd to the GAP10... If you have money to blow, then I'd get either a LMT, JP, or GAP10. If you don't have money with keeping the scope purchase in mind, then it would be really hard to beat a RRA 7.62 / .308 AR.... Personally, I would go with the 20" barrel. As luck would have it... both are in stock at Kentucky gun company with free shipping at a killer price... same place I got my LMT & Kentucky gun company is top notch with killer guest service. You will just need to pay your local FFL about $20 to $25 dollars to receive the rifle from Kentucky gun company. The good old A2 buttstock might not look that awesome, BUT it is wonderful for a rear sandbag for a person starting out with a AR for precision & I actually prefer the A2 stock myself.

if you want a 50/50 target / hunting, then get the lighter barrel predator pursuit model... I've known many to say on SH that you don't give up much in terms of accuracy with the predator HP barrel over the heavy bull barrel varmint model:
Rock River Arms: LAR-8 Predator HP
Rock River LAR-8 Predator HP 308 20"

if you want a 100% bench / target rifle, then get the bull barreled varmint model.. if totally used 100% target / bench, then the extra barrel weight actually helps with recoil & barrel accuracy IMO:
Rock River Arms: LAR-8 Predator HP
Rock River LAR-8 Varmint 308 20" BBL

So what I'm gathering elfster the RRA you linked above is capable of getting it done at 600+ yards out of the box with a good scope and some good rounds. What did you mean by downfall is the magazines

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[Speedster00]

I have 2 DPMS guns. One 556 and one in 308. I believe most out of the box AR's are 1 MOA capable. It all comes down to the shooter. I see people constantly talk about sub moa out of an auto thinking they need to spend thousands. Its just like racing motorcycles...its all about the person piloting the machine.

 

[Hualapai]

Just got back from Phx. on the road from 6am till 10:30 pm. Looked at a few AR's let you know what I found tomorrow.

 

[Hualapai]

I managed to fondle a DPMS 5.56 Oracle, Panther 7.62 and it's Windham counterpart briefly yesterday. Without doubt the Windham was a little nicer as far as detail and smoother on working the bolt. Was it $200 nicer..... not sure. I can say that had I remembered to take the $$$ and gift cards (idiot) I have I would have come home with the 5.56 DPMS. Simply because brand spanking new in the box I didn't think I could get hurt at $599.00 on sale. Might have to make a special trip back down to the box store before they run out. The only thing that slows me down is I was leaning hard towards the 7.62. They had a few Bushmasters and a couple others witch I didn't have enough time to check out.

Another possibility is the local gunsmith has what it takes to build a 7.62 x 39 Upper. So I was wondering the $599 5.56 and a 7.62 x 39 second upper? What are your thoughts on this twist. Thanks again for the comments and knowledge sharing.

 

[elfster1234]

unless you plan on ripping the rifle apart and building it back up,,,,, just make sure it has a free float handguard... I would seriously take my advice if you want a bug hole shooter as listed above.. For the money, out of the box shooter, I'd seriously give the RRA's rifles a serious look... even if they are a tad above your price range.

as for the 7.62x39.... leave that to the AK-47 boys... if you're going to do something other than 5.56 & 7.62, then get a 260 cal if you reload. I'd rather hunt / target practice with 5.56 & 7.62 in comparison to the 7.62x39.

I managed to fondle a DPMS 5.56 Oracle, Panther 7.62 and it's Windham counterpart briefly yesterday. Without doubt the Windham was a little nicer as far as detail and smoother on working the bolt. Was it $200 nicer..... not sure. I can say that had I remembered to take the $$$ and gift cards (idiot) I have I would have come home with the 5.56 DPMS. Simply because brand spanking new in the box I didn't think I could get hurt at $599.00 on sale. Might have to make a special trip back down to the box store before they run out. The only thing that slows me down is I was leaning hard towards the 7.62. They had a few Bushmasters and a couple others witch I didn't have enough time to check out.

Another possibility is the local gunsmith has what it takes to build a 7.62 x 39 Upper. So I was wondering the $599 5.56 and a 7.62 x 39 second upper? What are your thoughts on this twist. Thanks again for the comments and knowledge sharing.

 

[Hualapai]

Well elfster I'm listening, even though the big box store is having a blue light special on DPMS I've decided to chill and re-think before getting the cheap one and having to rebuild it. When the gunsmith in this town needs something welded he brings it to me. Only hear from him periodically and talked to him today. It seems that the two of you are on the same page when it comes to over the counter entry level AR's. I thought he was mainly into old SA colt revolvers and bolt guns, seems he has some strong opinions about the semi-auto scene. He is all for me getting the 7.62 and is up for helping me build said rifle or he suggested an FAL. Which of course I had to admit I didn't know what that was and had to look it up. He has an FAL ( go Figure). Maybe I can talk him out of it........

 

[elfster1234]

btw... the first .308 AR I ever owned was a DPMS oracle .308.... this thing is full of live & learn mistakes from the non-free float handguard, gas block mounted iron sight, grip pod, and eotech red dot... this old set up of mine averaged about 2.5 to 4moa @ 100yards... mostly due to the non-magnified 1x red dot & non-free float handguard... about the only thing it had going for it was for the fact it was ultra light weight and was an excellent deer brush rifle... at that time it was more tacticool than practicool.

Well elfster I'm listening, even though the big box store is having a blue light special on DPMS I've decided to chill and re-think before getting the cheap one and having to rebuild it. When the gunsmith in this town needs something welded he brings it to me. Only hear from him periodically and talked to him today. It seems that the two of you are on the same page when it comes to over the counter entry level AR's. I thought he was mainly into old SA colt revolvers and bolt guns, seems he has some strong opinions about the semi-auto scene. He is all for me getting the 7.62 and is up for helping me build said rifle or he suggested an FAL. Which of course I had to admit I didn't know what that was and had to look it up. He has an FAL ( go Figure). Maybe I can talk him out of it........

 

[Hualapai]

Well it's looks pretty good to me. I guess I have a bunch of stuff to learn about AR's and the like. Such as what's the deal with the free float hand guard? and can you not change it to a free float if it's not already? I'll catch up quick since I've developed an interest and hopefully not appear quite so....ignorant in future posts. Should I start with an already available AR such as those you linked to above before building one from components?

btw... the first .308 AR I ever owned was a DPMS oracle .308.... this thing is full of live & learn mistakes from the non-free float handguard, gas block mounted iron sight, grip pod, and eotech red dot... this old set up of mine averaged about 2.5 to 4moa @ 100yards... mostly due to the non-magnified 1x red dot & non-free float handguard... about the only thing it had going for it was for the fact it was ultra light weight and was an excellent deer brush rifle... at that time it was more tacticool than practicool.

 

[elfster1234]

the dpms .308 oracle has a 2pc non-free float handguard...... the advantage of having a free float handguard is the guard doesn't touch the barrel = improved accuracy big time!! it will cost about 125 to 200 dollars for just this upgrade... also, you can NOT attach any front sight to a non-floating handguard!! so why not just get a rifle that has that option right out of the box.. by the time you change the buttstock, trigger, handguard, blah blah blah,,, you would've been better off just getting it right the first time for about $300 dollars more = actually saving you money in the long run and allowing you to get your bug-hole groups right out of the box.... it all depends if you want it GTG out of the box,,, or build your own...

AR15 Handguards (3 of 8): Free Floating - YouTube

Gunsmithing - How to Install AR-15 Free Float Tubes Presented by Larry Potterfield of MidwayUSA - YouTube

Well it's looks pretty good to me. I guess I have a bunch of stuff to learn about AR's and the like. Such as what's the deal with the free float hand guard? and can you not change it to a free float if it's not already? I'll catch up quick since I've developed an interest and hopefully not appear quite so....ignorant in future posts. Should I start with an already available AR such as those you linked to above before building one from components?

 

[Hualapai]

You know the gunsmith said that too. I have to say I've spent my entire shooting career with handguns and single shots like contenders and encores and cowboy action shooting. All of a sudden I find myself wanting something I know little or nothing about. Lucky for me this forum and it's members are available.

Of course you could always go with the classic M1A too.....

 

[Hualapai]

The light bulb is on elfster. Pay now or pay more later. So what do you you think of the FAL by the way or the M1A Master brought up? I will be looking closer at the RRA's you linked as well as harassing the gunsmith till he's sick of me. God only knows what treasures he's got rat holed away (he never ceases to amaze me). I'll let you know what I find out.

the dpms .308 oracle has a 2pc non-free float handguard...... the advantage of having a free float handguard is the guard doesn't touch the barrel = improved accuracy big time!! it will cost about 125 to 200 dollars for just this upgrade... also, you can NOT attach any front sight to a non-floating handguard!! so why not just get a rifle that has that option right out of the box.. by the time you change the buttstock, trigger, handguard, blah blah blah,,, you would've been better off just getting it right the first time for about $300 dollars more = actually saving you money in the long run and allowing you to get your bug-hole groups right out of the box.... it all depends if you want it GTG out of the box,,, or build your own...

 

[elfster1234]

here is the deal with M1A's

they are just awesome... they just have a vintage feel to them that screams quality and heritage... with that said.... can they produce sub-moa groups? yes..... can they produce sub-moa groups that often compared to a quality AR-10 style rifle? no..... are they somewhat a pain in the ass in terms of scope mounts? yes....

I would get a quality AR-10 style rifle first, then once your collection is near complete... then get a MIA. they are awesome rifles, but if you want a true precision rig, then I'd get an AR-10 set up first. Mounting the scope is obviously so much easier & better... mind you the nice handguard as previously talked about.

I'd stay away from the FAL

I would get a DI gas gun personally in comparison to a piston driven

here is the list I'd look at for .308 ar's:

RRA is affordable & great option for someone new to the game.. about $1300 to $1600

LMT... can usually get one for about $2500 to $2600 dollars

JP somewhat pricey but you can get one ASAP

GAP if you can afford it and will take well over 6months

KAC if you have deep pockets

OBR's if you can friggen get one

SCAR, but I kinda have mixed reviews on the accuracy.... ultra light weight... wasn't totally impressed by my friend's scar in terms of accuracy, but some people on SH swear by them... more of a TRUE battle rifle IMO.

The light bulb is on elfster. Pay now or pay more later. So what do you you think of the FAL by the way or the M1A Master brought up? I will be looking closer at the RRA's you linked as well as harassing the gunsmith till he's sick of me. God only knows what treasures he's got rat holed away (he never ceases to amaze me). I'll let you know what I find out....

the dpms .308 oracle has a 2pc non-free float handguard...... the advantage of having a free float handguard is the guard doesn't touch the barrel = improved accuracy big time!! it will cost about 125 to 200 dollars for just this upgrade... also, you can NOT attach any front sight to a non-floating handguard!! so why not just get a rifle that has that option right out of the box.. by the time you change the buttstock, trigger, handguard, blah blah blah,,, you would've been better off just getting it right the first time for about $300 dollars more = actually saving you money in the long run and allowing you to get your bug-hole groups right out of the box.... it all depends if you want it GTG out of the box,,, or build your own...

 

[Hualapai]

well based on your list it looks like the RRA is where I need to concentrate my efforts. I do appreciate you helping to bring me into the present on AR type semi-autos. Gonna crash now, I'll be in touch. thanks again

here is the deal with M1A's

they are just awesome... they just have a vintage feel to them that screams quality and heritage... with that said.... can they produce sub-moa groups? yes..... can they produce sub-moa groups that often compared to a quality AR-10 style rifle? no..... are they somewhat a pain in the ass in terms of scope mounts? yes....

I would get a quality AR-10 style rifle first, then once your collection is near complete... then get a MIA. they are awesome rifles, but if you want a true precision rig, then I'd get an AR-10 set up first. Mounting the scope is obviously so much easier & better... mind you the nice handguard as previously talked about.

I'd stay away from the FAL

I would get a DI gas gun personally in comparison to a piston driven

here is the list I'd look at for .308 ar's:

RRA is affordable & great option for someone new to the game.. about $1300 to $1600

LMT... can usually get one for about $2500 to $2600 dollars

JP somewhat pricey but you can get one ASAP

GAP if you can afford it and will take well over 6months

KAC if you have deep pockets

OBR's if you can friggen get one

SCAR, but I kinda have mixed reviews on the accuracy.... ultra light weight... wasn't totally impressed by my friend's scar in terms of accuracy, but some people on SH swear by them... more of a TRUE battle rifle IMO.

 

[LRRPF52]

OP: Remember that it's a buyer's market right now. That means get as much quality and dependability as you can get for your buck.

The RRA LAR-8 has a bit of history to it that pre-dates the 7.62 PMAGs by seven years. RRA originally licensed it to Bushmaster, who made the BAR-10, and one of the main points of the design was that it could use surplus FAL mags, since it was conceived during the Clinton AWB, when we were no longer able to have newly-manufactured standard capacity magazines. Nobody wants to buy a military-style rifle that takes 5rd mags, so companies found ways to fit the rifles to the mags.

Biggest issues with the LAR-8 are that it has almost no commonality of parts with the other .308's and AR10's, other than a few small parts. Handguards are different, the receivers are extremely long for a 7.62 NATO, the BCG is way long, and the charge handle is unique and long to the LAR-8. I love the bolt catch mechanism on it, but the rest of the issues are a deal-breaker for many.

I would advise NOT to buy an off-the-shelf DPMS AR15 for $599, as sales are all over the place currently with much better quality parts. PSA has sales that will allow you to get a better AR for less than that, but it looks like you want a .308 AR. I would recommend taking some more time to let the sales pressure fester, while you study more about the AR15/AR10 marketplace. You will want a lightweight, quality gun in the end.

Are you aware that there are some very impressive hunting calibers that fit in the AR15, other than .223 Remington? You are already a reloader, so your doors are more open than .223 Remington and .308, although you have plenty of components for both. The .308 AR's are pigs as far as weight goes-I've owned 5 of them, and it takes a budget and a lot of patience to put one on a diet, which involves re-profiling the barrel down to a lighter weight, looking for the lightest furniture, and increasing the felt recoil forces.

I would steer you in the direction of two other calibers that fit in the AR15, that are awesome little deer and medium game slayers:

* 6.5 Grendel
* 6.8 SPC II

Basically, you have the choice of spitting 85gr to 140gr pills from both of these at energies in the 75%-80% range of a .308, with 50% of the recoil, and from a lightweight AR15 carbine that your kids can shoot without wincing. There are scores of factory loads for both of them, lots of reloading components, and they are superb performers from the AR15 receiver set.

 

[Hualapai]

Thanks for the input. As I told elfster I have decided to put the brakes on temporarily until I can make a somewhat informed decision. I'm not familiar with the two calibers you listed but will be researching them. What is PSA?
Kids are grown and gone but I suppose my wife would appreciate lighter recoil if she were to shoot the thing. Although she looked a bit annoyed when I said I was going to buy an AR, A look I promptly ignored LOL.
So you're saying build an AR from components if I understand you right? Initially I asked about DPMS and Windham, etc most say forget DPMS yet nobody commented on the Windham specifically. Should I assume then that the Windham falls into the same catagory as the DPMS over the counter. Of course the Windham does not have a free float barrel either.

OP: Remember that it's a buyer's market right now. That means get as much quality and dependability as you can get for your buck.

The RRA LAR-8 has a bit of history to it that pre-dates the 7.62 PMAGs by seven years. RRA originally licensed it to Bushmaster, who made the BAR-10, and one of the main points of the design was that it could use surplus FAL mags, since it was conceived during the Clinton AWB, when we were no longer able to have newly-manufactured standard capacity magazines. Nobody wants to buy a military-style rifle that takes 5rd mags, so companies found ways to fit the rifles to the mags.

Biggest issues with the LAR-8 are that it has almost no commonality of parts with the other .308's and AR10's, other than a few small parts. Handguards are different, the receivers are extremely long for a 7.62 NATO, the BCG is way long, and the charge handle is unique and long to the LAR-8. I love the bolt catch mechanism on it, but the rest of the issues are a deal-breaker for many.

I would advise NOT to buy an off-the-shelf DPMS AR15 for $599, as sales are all over the place currently with much better quality parts. PSA has sales that will allow you to get a better AR for less than that, but it looks like you want a .308 AR. I would recommend taking some more time to let the sales pressure fester, while you study more about the AR15/AR10 marketplace. You will want a lightweight, quality gun in the end.

Are you aware that there are some very impressive hunting calibers that fit in the AR15, other than .223 Remington? You are already a reloader, so your doors are more open than .223 Remington and .308, although you have plenty of components for both. The .308 AR's are pigs as far as weight goes-I've owned 5 of them, and it takes a budget and a lot of patience to put one on a diet, which involves re-profiling the barrel down to a lighter weight, looking for the lightest furniture, and increasing the felt recoil forces.

I would steer you in the direction of two other calibers that fit in the AR15, that are awesome little deer and medium game slayers:

* 6.5 Grendel
* 6.8 SPC II

Basically, you have the choice of spitting 85gr to 140gr pills from both of these at energies in the 75%-80% range of a .308, with 50% of the recoil, and from a lightweight AR15 carbine that your kids can shoot without wincing. There are scores of factory loads for both of them, lots of reloading components, and they are superb performers from the AR15 receiver set.

 

[Speedster00]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the pay now or pay more later statement. Paying later has 2 advantages. The first being you can pick from any handgaurd you want, and the second being paying at your own pace.

I bought a DPMS oracle for $599. A few couple months later bought a diamond head VRS-T rail, lowpro gas block and barrel nut. They are newer on the market and not many people have them. Spent about $250 I believe but you know what, you cant buy a factory rifle with that handgaurd and ultimately it cost me just as much as buying from the factory and I would have only got the stock quad rail that they offer to everyone.

The stock, you will always change to something better. Unless you order custom gun, everyone I know replaces their stock with something custom. So your going to spend it anyway.

Its also fun to tear down a rifle and understand all the pieces. Half the fun of an AR is getting to customize it the way YOU want. So if your going to replace parts, which you will eventually, go entry level and add on later. The only exception is if you find the exact gun you want and wont change a thing. Then buy a box model like a a 3gs and go shoot. Because if you change it on an upgraded model, you'll end up spending a ton on the rifle.

 

[Hualapai]

Is this pic of the $599 DPMS after you reworked it? I like the looks of that rifle with the tan and black. Does that bipod pull out the bottom of the grip? That's pretty handy even though it doesn't look like it's adjustable.
I have yet to here any specific comments on the Windham, do you have any?

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the pay now or pay more later statement. Paying later has 2 advantages. The first being you can pick from any handgaurd you want, and the second being paying at your own pace.

I bought a DPMS oracle for $599. A few couple months later bought a diamond head VRS-T rail, lowpro gas block and barrel nut. They are newer on the market and not many people have them. Spent about $250 I believe but you know what, you cant buy a factory rifle with that handgaurd and ultimately it cost me just as much as buying from the factory and I would have only got the stock quad rail that they offer to everyone.

The stock, you will always change to something better. Unless you order custom gun, everyone I know replaces their stock with something custom. So your going to spend it anyway.

Its also fun to tear down a rifle and understand all the pieces. Half the fun of an AR is getting to customize it the way YOU want. So if your going to replace parts, which you will eventually, go entry level and add on later. The only exception is if you find the exact gun you want and wont change a thing. Then buy a box model like a a 3gs and go shoot. Because if you change it on an upgraded model, you'll end up spending a ton on the rifle.

 

[LV 426]

DPMS 6.5 creedmoor. !

 

[Speedster00]

That's a grip pod. Its spring loaded and deploys with the push of a button. It also removes very easily if you don't want it on there. If you put the parts on yourself and save the labor cost, with out optics on my DPMS I have right at $1200 in it and it runs incredibly well....but Im a range guy. I don't drag my guns through the sand and mud to see if they'll fail.


Wyndham I believe is made here in Houston. I have fondled one but never shot one. No complaints from what Ive seen. I can buy them locally new for about $700 stripped down like the DPMS Oracle.

 

[Hualapai]

Is that the original barrel and trigger assembly? What kid of accuracy are you getting out of it?

That's a grip pod. Its spring loaded and deploys with the push of a button. It also removes very easily if you don't want it on there. If you put the parts on yourself and save the labor cost, with out optics on my DPMS I have right at $1200 in it and it runs incredibly well....but Im a range guy. I don't drag my guns through the sand and mud to see if they'll fail.


Wyndham I believe is made here in Houston. I have fondled one but never shot one. No complaints from what Ive seen. I can buy them locally new for about $700 stripped down like the DPMS Oracle.

 

[Speedster00]

Is that the original barrel and trigger assembly? What kid of accuracy are you getting out of it?

Yes they are stock. The trigger is a standard milspec weight but its not gritty so Im fine with it. This gun is close range only. Under 50 yards but I can stack them on top of each other with my reloads.

My DPMS 308 I shoot 1 moa with my reloads. Last weekend I shot a 5 round group and all rounds were touching at 100 yards. It has a 24" stainless barrel.

 

[Hualapai]

Where are you/others purchasing all the aftermarket parts? websites?

That's a grip pod. Its spring loaded and deploys with the push of a button. It also removes very easily if you don't want it on there. If you put the parts on yourself and save the labor cost, with out optics on my DPMS I have right at $1200 in it and it runs incredibly well....but Im a range guy. I don't drag my guns through the sand and mud to see if they'll fail.


Wyndham I believe is made here in Houston. I have fondled one but never shot one. No complaints from what Ive seen. I can buy them locally new for about $700 stripped down like the DPMS Oracle.

 

[Speedster00]

Where are you/others purchasing all the aftermarket parts? websites?

That's like asking where to buy a car. There are hundreds if not thousands of AR accessory websites. Some are bigger than others like Brownells. But there are a lot of tactical shops online.

 

[LV 426]

Wyndham- Bushmaster