Rifle Scopes Which scope? XTR II 4-20x50 vs SHV 5-20x56

[FX44AU]

I'm trying to decide on an optic for my new build and have pretty much narrowed it down to these two. I like the MIL/MIL adjustments on the Burris, the FFP SCR MIL reticle as well as the 34mm tube and exposed windage turret. However I feel like the Nightforce may have a bit better glass based on what I've read and I like the 56mm objective since I will be doing some hunting with this rifle. It does have a SFP MOA reticle which isn't that big of a deal since it has an exposed elevation turret. Any advice or opinions? Rifle specifics and intended usage below.

Rifle: Aero Precision M5E1 with 20" Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor premium series barrel
Usage: Target shooting at ranges up to 1200 yards and some dawn/daylight/dusk beanfield hunting (coyote, hog and deer) up to 700 yards

By the way..... glad to be a member of this forum. Lots of great info here!

 

[blbennett1288]

I have owned two of the XTRIIs and one NXS. I have not owned a SHV but have handled them some.

I would go with the XTRII 4-20 for the following reasons. FFP, 10mils/rev, MIL/MIL, SCR reticle, 34mm tube, illum, and zero stop.

The glass will be a wash. The SHV will be better but not by much and certainly not noticeable unless you really analyze them. Yes the 56mm will let more light in but that is the only pro for the SHV.

The price on the XTRII will also be better. New you can find them for less than $900 and used in the $750 range.

 

[fdkay]

Both scopes are very good scopes, The Nightforce likely has slightly better glass,
The problem with a 56mm objective is the need to mount the scope so damn high.
I have one 56mm scope, a Sightron S-Tac 2.5-17.5. It is an excellent scope with really good glass. I have the uncapped version, if i had it to do over again, I would have gone capped as the turrets turn easily. (not a problem with the Burris, they are very firm)
Both scopes are good scopes. You don't do much in the way of dialing for wind, as it is ever changing in intensity and direction. You hold for wind in the field, thus capped turrets are not an issue.
I only have experience with the Burris 3-15. The glass is very reasonable, but I intentionally got the one with the G2B, so it would be a bit bolder and easier to pick up.
Is there a reason you haven't considered the PST II?
They offer both FFP and SFP reticles and they have excellent reticles as well.

 

[FX44AU]

Appreciate the replies. I would prefer the MIL/MIL setup but just wanted to be sure I wasn't giving up a lot in quality of the scope. I've never owned an XTR II (or any Burris for that matter) but haven't seen much negativity towards them other than some stating the glass isn't that great. However in a sub $1200 scope I don't think you can expect top notch glass especially considering the other features on the scope. I do have a couple Zeiss Victory Diavaris so I know what good glass looks like and don't expect either of these scopes to match the optical clarity of the higher end Zeiss. Also I understand not dialing for wind in the field due to constant changing conditions but I still like an exposed windage turret as long as it locks up good.

As far as the Vortex I've not owned a PST Gen II but I did have one of the original PST scopes and just wasn't that impressed with it. It had serious parallax issues but Vortex does an excellent job taking care of warranty issues. I would like to grab a Gen II Razor but just can't get over the weight of the scope. They're tanks!

 

[patriot07]

I would go look through an XTR II before I bought one. I recently checked it out against much cheaper scopes than an SHV and it was really poor glass quality. Mine might have been specific to that sample, but it was really disappointing. I subsequently picked up a PST Gen 2 and the glass quality is surprisingly good for the money. Just a tiny notch below the SWFA HD, Bushnell ERS, and probably SHV as well. But not enough to notice if you aren't looking at glass quality in a scope store.

Just for the record, those are two very different scopes. The NF is SFP, MOA, with higher quality glass, made in Japan, and quite a bit more expensive. The XTR II is FFP, mils, lower quality glass, made in Phillipines, and much cheaper. XTR II competes with PST Gen II, Tango 4, Bushnell LRS, etc.

 

[308pirate]

I'd have to add the SWFA 5-20x50 HD into the mix

 

[Birddog6424]

The XTR II is an excellent scope. There is nothing wrong with the glass as so many people here seem to let on. I've compared it against pretty much everything on numerous occasions. It definitely gives up nothing to the GEN II PST. Myself and some friends have crawled all over that scope comparison on several occasions now. Both are spec glass from the Phillipines at the same price point.

I use XTR II's on a PRS bolt gun, and PRS Gas gun competition rifles. I'm getting the 4th barrel twisted on my bolt gun as we speak, and that's with the bulk of my shooting through my 223 trainer. I have a 5-25 on a 300 Norma Mag I've successfully fired past a mile, and I hunt year round with them. Big game in the fall, wolves and lions in the winter and spring.. Just bagged a 5x6 bull elk with one on Sunday morning in Riggins Idaho (pics on request ). I've not once on any hunt or competition had an issue with glass. Side by side against every scope in it's price point it's as good or better than anything out there.

I like the Nightforce. They make great scopes. I would agree I think the glass is a hair cleaner on the SHV's I have looked through. I also like the SWFA's mentioned above and the Bushy LRHS. When you look at the big picture of durability, bullet proof tracking and reliability, it makes the Burris a very strong contender. This scope is still selling like hotcakes for 3 years now. Gotta be something to it.

I don't think you can go wrong with either of them. Good luck with your decision.

 

[patriot07]

The XTR II is an excellent scope. There is nothing wrong with the glass as so many people here seem to let on. I've compared it against pretty much everything on numerous occasions. It definitely gives up nothing to the GEN II PST. Myself and some friends have crawled all over that scope comparison on several occasions now. Both are spec glass from the Phillipines at the same price point.

I use XTR II's on a PRS bolt gun, and PRS Gas gun competition rifles. I'm getting the 4th barrel twisted on my bolt gun as we speak, and that's with the bulk of my shooting through my 223 trainer. I have a 5-25 on a 300 Norma Mag I've successfully fired past a mile, and I hunt year round with them. Big game in the fall, wolves and lions in the winter and spring.. Just bagged a 5x6 bull elk with one on Sunday morning in Riggins Idaho (pics on request ). I've not once on any hunt or competition had an issue with glass. Side by side against every scope in it's price point it's as good or better than anything out there.

I like the Nightforce. They make great scopes. I would agree I think the glass is a hair cleaner on the SHV's I have looked through. I also like the SWFA's mentioned above and the Bushy LRHS. When you look at the big picture of durability, bullet proof tracking and reliability, it makes the Burris a very strong contender. This scope is still selling like hotcakes for 3 years now. Gotta be something to it.

I don't think you can go wrong with either of them. Good luck with your decision.

I posted this on another thread on another forum, but I recently directly compared the XTR II to the SWFA 3-15, SWFA 5-20 HD, Vortex PST Gen 2 5-25, Bushnell ERS, and Bushnell LRS. The XTR II had, by far, the worst glass of all of them. The SWFA 3-15 was better, and it was a big jump from there to the glass quality on the other 4, which were all fairly close.

Maybe there is a lot of sample variation on the XTR II? Or maybe Burris has something in their coatings that makes it look really great to some people and not so great to others? Whatever the issue, I don't think people are making up the idea that the XTR II glass doesn't compare at all to the others in the same price range. It's real to them, just like it's real to you that it is just as good as everything else in that range. My copy had tons of distortion, blurriness, and CA around the edges, and was soft, hazy, and dim in the center. The PST Gen 2 by comparison was bright and sharp across the entire image. Both Bushnells and the SWFA HD were also bright and crisp across the image for the most part (SWFA HD glass was really fantastic). I don't know how to explain the "why", but that was my experience and it was real.

 

[Birddog6424]

It's all good brother. There's no doubt that everyone sees glass differently. And there is certainly variations from scope to scope.

My understanding of how this works is that a manufacturer such as the facilities in the Philippines or LOW in Japan is asked to produce a product meeting certain criteria and standards. And its then up to them. Sometimes you get a scope that nails it, sometimes you get one right on the edge of acceptability. It might exhibit a little CA or it might not be as crisp or bright as the others, but still meets the production standard.

Every XTR II I own is pretty bright and clear. Especially my three 4-20 H591s. And I have quite a few others as well. The PST II we compared to had some coloring that made my H591 a little brighter. But I have heard people say they have seen some CA in some Burris scopes. And I don't doubt it's true. But head to head against other scopes in its price point you will see variations. You can find plenty of scopes from a variety of manufacturers where the glass just doesn't quite pop like others. I suspect that's why we see so much differing opinion on glass quality at this price point.

At the end of the day, scopes in this price range may not always have great glass. But I've never seen a scope from anyone that wasn't completely functional. I could take it out and ring steel or hunt with it all day without issue. Glass is such a small part of the overall function of a scope.

 

[D_TROS]

I posted this on another thread on another forum, but I recently directly compared the XTR II to the SWFA 3-15, SWFA 5-20 HD, Vortex PST Gen 2 5-25, Bushnell ERS, and Bushnell LRS. The XTR II had, by far, the worst glass of all of them. The SWFA 3-15 was better, and it was a big jump from there to the glass quality on the other 4, which were all fairly close....

.

Also directly compared (owned) all the scopes listed but the new PST. I sold both the SWFA and Bushnell as soon as I got my XTR2.
Also if you compare features and not just glass, it makes the gap even bigger.

ONE caveat is the Bushnell ERS which retails for over 2x the XTR2 cost. Heck you can get a 4-20 non illum for same price as a SWFA 3-15. The XTR2 is the new SWFA scope - all the features for the lowest price. Burris literally knocked this out of the park. Bang for buck (pun intended ) right now nothing touches the XTR2.

That being said all scopes are great optins. HIGHLY reccommend getting behind all of them. Rect for me are a big deal. That why I just sold my S&B and am looking at the MINOX or something with a mild tree. If XTR2 would come out with a mild tree like the Kahles one, and keep the price under 1k...might be my only scope I use lol.

GL!

DT

 

[supercorndogs]

Also directly compared (owned) all the scopes listed but the new PST. I sold both the SWFA and Bushnell as soon as I got my XTR2.
Also if you compare features and not just glass, it makes the gap even bigger.

ONE caveat is the Bushnell ERS which retails for over 2x the XTR2 cost. Heck you can get a 4-20 non illum for same price as a SWFA 3-15. The XTR2 is the new SWFA scope - all the features for the lowest price. Burris literally knocked this out of the park. Bang for buck (pun intended ) right now nothing touches the XTR2.


DT

ERS retails for, it doesn't sell for that. Most are buying them for less than 1200. I think that is why it comes up so much in this conversation. For less money I like the Athlon Ares. It gives up some internal adjustment, and only time will tell if its durable.

 

[patriot07]

Also directly compared (owned) all the scopes listed but the new PST. I sold both the SWFA and Bushnell as soon as I got my XTR2.
Also if you compare features and not just glass, it makes the gap even bigger.

ONE caveat is the Bushnell ERS which retails for over 2x the XTR2 cost. Heck you can get a 4-20 non illum for same price as a SWFA 3-15. The XTR2 is the new SWFA scope - all the features for the lowest price. Burris literally knocked this out of the park. Bang for buck (pun intended ) right now nothing touches the XTR2.

That being said all scopes are great optins. HIGHLY reccommend getting behind all of them. Rect for me are a big deal. That why I just sold my S&B and am looking at the MINOX or something with a mild tree. If XTR2 would come out with a mild tree like the Kahles one, and keep the price under 1k...might be my only scope I use lol.

GL!

DT

If you sold the SWFA 5-20 HD for the XTR II, your opinion of scopes is quite different than mine.

Give the Gen 2 PST a look. It's an XTR II with good glass.

 

[Birddog6424]

If you sold the SWFA 5-20 HD for the XTR II, your opinion of scopes is quite different than mine.

Give the Gen 2 PST a look. It's an XTR II with good glass.

As if we needed any more evidence that beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Glass discussions aside, mechanics and durability is where the Burris really shines over the PST II. The Vortex has some big shoes to fill to compete with the Burris there. The more I play with the PST II the more I dislike the turrets. They feel clicky and cheap to me. In nutshell, they feel just like the Gen I, but a larger diameter cap. And they turn way too easy just like the Gen I making them easy to bump. To me they are the worst turrets at this price point.

I like Vortex stuff, and I have a handful of products from them that I really like. But the Razor line is still where it's at. If it weren't for the Burris I would most likely be shooting a Bushnell or SWFA at this price point.

 

[Birddog6424]

Also directly compared (owned) all the scopes listed but the new PST. I sold both the SWFA and Bushnell as soon as I got my XTR2.
Also if you compare features and not just glass, it makes the gap even bigger.

ONE caveat is the Bushnell ERS which retails for over 2x the XTR2 cost. Heck you can get a 4-20 non illum for same price as a SWFA 3-15. The XTR2 is the new SWFA scope - all the features for the lowest price. Burris literally knocked this out of the park. Bang for buck (pun intended ) right now nothing touches the XTR2.

That being said all scopes are great optins. HIGHLY reccommend getting behind all of them. Rect for me are a big deal. That why I just sold my S&B and am looking at the MINOX or something with a mild tree. If XTR2 would come out with a mild tree like the Kahles one, and keep the price under 1k...might be my only scope I use lol.

GL!

DT

Its possible kinda sorta maybe that the XTR II just might roll out a Christmas tree style reticle at SHOT?

Don't quote me on this. We are entirely too far away from SHOT Show for quotes. But maybe we'll see one

 

[CSTactical]

The Burris XTRII are great scope and for the price hard to beat. We have a used USED Nightforce C534 SHV 520x56 ZeroSet 0.25MOA MOAR Non Illuminated $925.00.

Here is a link to the SHV.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...minated-925-00

 

[D_TROS]

ERS retails for, it doesn't sell for that. Most are buying them for less than 1200. I think that is why it comes up so much in this conversation. For less money I like the Athlon Ares. It gives up some internal adjustment, and only time will tell if its durable.

Fair enough. For that price range I would take the Gen I Vortex over anything offered. Retail 1800 sells around 1200. Best used scope I think in the used almost $1k market.

As to the Athlon, the only one I saw was at the CO PRS match I was RO'ing at this summer. There was one scope that went down in that match...you guessed it, I will be avoiding that scope.


Like I mentioned, get behind ea scope you consider and see for yourself which you prefer, not only glass, but fit, feel and function of the scope. Tom likes Ford, Dik likes Chevy and Harry likes Dodge. lol


Regards,
DT

 

[dgheriani]

I don't have any experience with the Burris offerings but I've had a NF SHV 4-14 F1 for over a year now and it's a great scope. I'm curious as to why you're looking at the sfp SHV instead of the ffp SHV F1? Much more comparable features-wise to the Burris and definitely a super durable, repeatable scope.

 

[patriot07]

As if we needed any more evidence that beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Glass discussions aside, mechanics and durability is where the Burris really shines over the PST II. The Vortex has some big shoes to fill to compete with the Burris there. The more I play with the PST II the more I dislike the turrets. They feel clicky and cheap to me. In nutshell, they feel just like the Gen I, but a larger diameter cap. And they turn way too easy just like the Gen I making them easy to bump. To me they are the worst turrets at this price point.

I like Vortex stuff, and I have a handful of products from them that I really like. But the Razor line is still where it's at. If it weren't for the Burris I would most likely be shooting a Bushnell or SWFA at this price point.

I always hear this bump issue. Can't say I've ever bumped a turret and turned it to where it wasn't supposed to be. I love the turrets on the PST Gen 2. Not to hard or too easy to turn. I like the turrets on the XTR II though. The turrets on the SWFA I held were mushy and less tactile than both the PST Gen 2 and XTR II.

What PST II have you been playing with?

 

[FX44AU]

Appreciate the replies. Lots of good suggestions!

I don't have any experience with the Burris offerings but I've had a NF SHV 4-14 F1 for over a year now and it's a great scope. I'm curious as to why you're looking at the sfp SHV instead of the ffp SHV F1? Much more comparable features-wise to the Burris and definitely a super durable, repeatable scope.

The main reason is because I want something with a bit more magnification. Aside from that it would be a very strong contender.

 

[supercorndogs]

Fair enough. For that price range I would take the Gen I Vortex over anything offered. Retail 1800 sells around 1200. Best used scope I think in the used almost $1k market.

As to the Athlon, the only one I saw was at the CO PRS match I was RO'ing at this summer. There was one scope that went down in that match...you guessed it, I will be avoiding that scope.


Like I mentioned, get behind ea scope you consider and see for yourself which you prefer, not only glass, but fit, feel and function of the scope. Tom likes Ford, Dik likes Chevy and Harry likes Dodge. lol


Regards,
DT

Everyone makes scopes that break. Athlon is about the only warranty department I have not worked with yet. Who knows, I might find out in the near future I might not. What was the failure?

 

[Birddog6424]

I always hear this bump issue. Can't say I've ever bumped a turret and turned it to where it wasn't supposed to be. I love the turrets on the PST Gen 2. Not to hard or too easy to turn. I like the turrets on the XTR II though. The turrets on the SWFA I held were mushy and less tactile than both the PST Gen 2 and XTR II.

What PST II have you been playing with?

I've played with a handful of 5-25's, and one 3-15. Both glass comparisons we did that we spent a lot of time on was with the 5-25 FFP. And I've fiddled with a few more down at the gun shop I used to work at, and still frequent pretty regularly. The owner and everyone down there are good friends that I shoot 3 gun and USPSA with. They've managed to get 3 of them in so far, and one was broken right out of the box. It wouldn't hold zero. Vortex CS was excellent as always. I haven't heard how his replacement is doing, but I'll see him at a match in central Utah this weekend.

I've definitely seen a fair share of bumped turrets over the years in PRS and 3 gun. WJM mentioned on here the other day he had already bumped his on his PST II. It happens. It's the reason locking knobs were developed and one of the things that helps make the Gen II Razor such a popular PRS scope.

I do really like the size and weight of the PST II 3-15x44. That's a nice sized scope for a mid range rifle like a Grendel or the new 224 Valkyrie.

 

[supercorndogs]

I've played with a handful of 5-25's, and one 3-15. Both glass comparisons we did that we spent a lot of time on was with the 5-25 FFP. And I've fiddled with a few more down at the gun shop I used to work at, and still frequent pretty regularly. The owner and everyone down there are good friends that I shoot 3 gun and USPSA with. They've managed to get 3 of them in so far, and one was broken right out of the box. It wouldn't hold zero. Vortex CS was excellent as always. I haven't heard how his replacement is doing, but I'll see him at a match in central Utah this weekend.

I've definitely seen a fair share of bumped turrets over the years in PRS and 3 gun. WJM mentioned on here the other day he had already bumped his on his PST II. It happens. It's the reason locking knobs were developed and one of the things that helps make the Gen II Razor such a popular PRS scope.

I do really like the size and weight of the PST II 3-15x44. That's a nice sized scope for a mid range rifle like a Grendel or the new 224 Valkyrie.

Inadvertently spun knobs are a pain. I was just practicing earlier. I thought my Athlon lost zero. My shots started landing .5 high. Some time between setting down the rifle, reloading it, and getting back into position on the sticks. I had spun the turret up .5. Some are worse than others in this respect. I had that problem hunting with the Gen 1 Razor. It never happened to me with either of my XTRII. I think the turrets we're stiff enough to prevent it, with out having the extra moving parts of a locking turret, which I dont personally like. I really wish the Burris glass didn't disagree with my eyes so much, because it is a really well built, well thought out optic.

 

[D_TROS]

Everyone makes scopes that break. Athlon is about the only warranty department I have not worked with yet. Who knows, I might find out in the near future I might not. What was the failure?

No joke on the all scopes break. Doesn't mean we dont try to avoid things with a higher percentage of going down.

I don't know exactly how the scope broke, I just know it "went down" and I don't want to say something that didn't happen. I didn't see guy after it went down. Saw before.

I have admitting very little hands on experience but a ton of interweb commando experience with the Athlon but some things that stuck out to me:
-one I saw in actual use and not on the internet went down
-looking through it, the black tube if you will around the glass as looking though it, as if it has permanent "tunneling," was very prominent. Maybe Im used to high end where the scope disappears, but it was the first thing I noticed and a huge turn off.
- even Killswitch tracking tests showed tracking not spot on. Close is cool I guess if you are into that. Not "boringly accurate" like he describes both the HDMR and the XTR2 (which I would recommend both over Athlon/NF).
I just remembered I helped a friend mount a cheap $400 athlon sope on his hunting rifle. I havnt asked him how it panned out for him. Will text him now.

As you said, time will tell. I get this very gimmicky feeling from Athlon and I don't know why. Maybe its their marketing (which coincidentally could be why the price is low) but I don't know.

To stay on topic, and to reiterate both my previous posts, get behind both (every state pretty much has major matches with all scopes being represented these days) and pick the one you feel is a better bang for your buck with features you prefer, not the interwebs opinion.

Regards,
DT

 

[supercorndogs]

No joke on the all scopes break. Doesn't mean we dont try to avoid things with a higher percentage of going down.

I don't know exactly how the scope broke, I just know it "went down" and I don't want to say something that didn't happen. I didn't see guy after it went down. Saw before.

I have admitting very little hands on experience but a ton of interweb commando experience with the Athlon but some things that stuck out to me:
-one I saw in actual use and not on the internet went down
-looking through it, the black tube if you will around the glass as looking though it, as if it has permanent "tunneling," was very prominent. Maybe Im used to high end where the scope disappears, but it was the first thing I noticed and a huge turn off.
- even Killswitch tracking tests showed tracking not spot on. Close is cool I guess if you are into that. Not "boringly accurate" like he describes both the HDMR and the XTR2 (which I would recommend both over Athlon/NF).
I just remembered I helped a friend mount a cheap $400 athlon sope on his hunting rifle. I havnt asked him how it panned out for him. Will text him now.

As you said, time will tell. I get this very gimmicky feeling from Athlon and I don't know why. Maybe its their marketing (which coincidentally could be why the price is low) but I don't know.

To stay on topic, and to reiterate both my previous posts, get behind both (every state pretty much has major matches with all scopes being represented these days) and pick the one you feel is a better bang for your buck with features you prefer, not the interwebs opinion.

Regards,
DT

The 4.5-27 I have looks like a cheaper scope, when i look at the turrets. the glass is decent the eye box is ok, and the mechanics I have no idea really. Close enough to sight it. I haven't done anything but 100y positional stiff with it. The reticle is nice. I feel like the reasons its cheaper are obvious when you look it over. I would call it a 10 mil zero stop SWFA 3-15 for the best comparison i can think of, but again SWFA has proven mechanics like Burris, Athlon wait and see, but they say they will fix it.

 

[B-P-UU]

Don't overlook the Bushnell LRTSi.. probably the best compromise based on your criteria

 

[Birddog6424]

Inadvertently spun knobs are a pain. I was just practicing earlier. I thought my Athlon lost zero. My shots started landing .5 high. Some time between setting down the rifle, reloading it, and getting back into position on the sticks. I had spun the turret up .5. Some are worse than others in this respect. I had that problem hunting with the Gen 1 Razor. It never happened to me with either of my XTRII. I think the turrets we're stiff enough to prevent it, with out having the extra moving parts of a locking turret, which I dont personally like. I really wish the Burris glass didn't disagree with my eyes so much, because it is a really well built, well thought out optic.

I'm with you there . I've absolutely bombed some 3 gun stages because I spun a knob pulling my rifle in and out of my bag. I definitely like the new capped turret system on the XTR II 1-8. And there is always a good argument to be made for locking windage turrets on a comp gun.

School of hard knocks. I check my turrets before every stage these days.