Rifle Scopes Which spotting scope for competition?
- Thread starter triton19
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Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
There are Swaro, Leica and then all the other ones you won't be happy with.
There are Swaro, Leica and then all the other ones you won't be happy with.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are Swaro, Leica and then all the other ones you won't be happy with. </div></div>
That's why all the Highpower and F-class lines are full of Kowa 800 series scopes eh?
My vote goes Kowa, esp with the versatility of their Long eye relief eyepieces.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are Swaro, Leica and then all the other ones you won't be happy with. </div></div>
That's why all the Highpower and F-class lines are full of Kowa 800 series scopes eh?
My vote goes Kowa, esp with the versatility of their Long eye relief eyepieces.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of competition?</div></div>
Good question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of competition?</div></div>
Good question.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
I've found that investment into spotter is hardest to justify since top glass gets hampered by enviromental effects just as much as cheap ones. I've bought Hawke Endurance and while it's optically inferior on many occasions it's as useful /useless/ as best of them. Max i'd pay for spotter would be around 1000$ and even that if i had everything else top quality. Check out Nikon 82mm line they are excellent though a bit pricey for my taste.
PS: Make sure you invest into sturdy platform since spotter on wobbly legs is absolutely useless.
I've found that investment into spotter is hardest to justify since top glass gets hampered by enviromental effects just as much as cheap ones. I've bought Hawke Endurance and while it's optically inferior on many occasions it's as useful /useless/ as best of them. Max i'd pay for spotter would be around 1000$ and even that if i had everything else top quality. Check out Nikon 82mm line they are excellent though a bit pricey for my taste.
PS: Make sure you invest into sturdy platform since spotter on wobbly legs is absolutely useless.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
You talking sniper style matches? Honestly I haven't used a spotting scope in years. It's just one more piece of gear to lug around and if you're running and gunning then you don't have time to set it up. Also you don't want to be that guy with all the gear that's holding everyone else up.
Spend the money on a good scope with higher mag up to 20-25x and you can see just fine.
You talking sniper style matches? Honestly I haven't used a spotting scope in years. It's just one more piece of gear to lug around and if you're running and gunning then you don't have time to set it up. Also you don't want to be that guy with all the gear that's holding everyone else up.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You talking sniper style matches? Honestly I haven't used a spotting scope in years. It's just one more piece of gear to lug around and if you're running and gunning then you don't have time to set it up. Also you don't want to be that guy with all the gear that's holding everyone else up.
Spend the money on a good scope with higher mag up to 20-25x and you can see just fine. </div></div>
I could not agree with Rob01 any more than I do now. Now you see why I asked the question originally. So now, let me ask another question. Exactly what kind of optics do you have on your rifle, and what kind of rifle and caliber are you shooting in these matches?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You talking sniper style matches? Honestly I haven't used a spotting scope in years. It's just one more piece of gear to lug around and if you're running and gunning then you don't have time to set it up. Also you don't want to be that guy with all the gear that's holding everyone else up.
I could not agree with Rob01 any more than I do now. Now you see why I asked the question originally. So now, let me ask another question. Exactly what kind of optics do you have on your rifle, and what kind of rifle and caliber are you shooting in these matches?
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
Probably because they can't afford a Swaro or Leica.
I hope you are not really going to try and tell me the Kowa is the equal of a SWARO or Leica? If it or any Jap optics were, I doubt Nightforce or S&B would be in the riflescope business very long. "Marines adopt Bushnells!" LOL!
There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches).
Probably because they can't afford a Swaro or Leica.
I hope you are not really going to try and tell me the Kowa is the equal of a SWARO or Leica? If it or any Jap optics were, I doubt Nightforce or S&B would be in the riflescope business very long. "Marines adopt Bushnells!" LOL!
There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches).
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
After comparing,"looking through at the NRA show" KOWA 883,Swaro,Leica and Zeiss 80mm range scopes,I discovered the KOWA 883 prominar to be noticeably superior in clarity.So much so that I could see dust and spiderwebs on the lights that I couldn't even see with the others.
I couldn't afford a KOWA 883 so I researched a little about best bang for the $ and bought a Pentax PF-100.It's much clearer and brighter than my friends Zeiss and Swaro 65mm's.Very large though.
Steve
After comparing,"looking through at the NRA show" KOWA 883,Swaro,Leica and Zeiss 80mm range scopes,I discovered the KOWA 883 prominar to be noticeably superior in clarity.So much so that I could see dust and spiderwebs on the lights that I couldn't even see with the others.
I couldn't afford a KOWA 883 so I researched a little about best bang for the $ and bought a Pentax PF-100.It's much clearer and brighter than my friends Zeiss and Swaro 65mm's.Very large though.
Steve
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
I'd recommend a Kowa Highlander.
I don't have one, though. If someone wants to know what to give me for Christmas, that would be a nice choice.
I'd recommend a Kowa Highlander.
I don't have one, though. If someone wants to know what to give me for Christmas, that would be a nice choice.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
Oh, so it's a two man crew. Somehow I didn't get that from the OP. Get what you want, but it might be useful for the spotting scope to have a similar reticle as the riflescope.
Oh, so it's a two man crew. Somehow I didn't get that from the OP. Get what you want, but it might be useful for the spotting scope to have a similar reticle as the riflescope.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If it or any Jap optics were, I doubt Nightforce or S&B would be in the riflescope business very long. </div></div>
I was under the impression that NF used Jap glass. Maybe wrong though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If it or any Jap optics were, I doubt Nightforce or S&B would be in the riflescope business very long. </div></div>
I was under the impression that NF used Jap glass. Maybe wrong though.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
My scope for spotting/scoring precision matches is a Kowa 612 w/25X Long Eye Relief eyepiece.
OG-no scope can reliably see bullet holes at 1K, that's why they put spotting discs in the targets.
Kowa 8XX scopes are by far the most used on HP and FClass lines. These are top level "money is no object" guys, and Kowa glass rules the field.
For spotting on a team I'd get the MK4 the military uses-they are fairly compact and have a reticle that you can give your shooter proper corrections from.
Tripod:Bogen with a pistol grip.
My scope for spotting/scoring precision matches is a Kowa 612 w/25X Long Eye Relief eyepiece.
OG-no scope can reliably see bullet holes at 1K, that's why they put spotting discs in the targets.
Kowa 8XX scopes are by far the most used on HP and FClass lines. These are top level "money is no object" guys, and Kowa glass rules the field.
For spotting on a team I'd get the MK4 the military uses-they are fairly compact and have a reticle that you can give your shooter proper corrections from.
Tripod:Bogen with a pistol grip.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
Never used the other scopes listed, but I absolutely love my Nikon TF3ED. However, someone said these aren't in production anymore?? Seeing trace is so much easier than the Mk4. As far as a tripod, I agree with sobrbiker on the bogen. They are very sturdy and versatile, whether you are prone or standing. In addition, if you have the handle/grip head it can quickly be placed perpendicular to the ground and used as a quick shooting rest when shooting alts
Never used the other scopes listed, but I absolutely love my Nikon TF3ED. However, someone said these aren't in production anymore?? Seeing trace is so much easier than the Mk4. As far as a tripod, I agree with sobrbiker on the bogen. They are very sturdy and versatile, whether you are prone or standing. In addition, if you have the handle/grip head it can quickly be placed perpendicular to the ground and used as a quick shooting rest when shooting alts
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
I've shot several team matches like this and used a Gold ring fixed power (20X) Leupold spotter mounted on an old Ruger 10/22 stock with bi-pod and sling. Quick to deploy, easy to carry, and could see trace. We both used it to correct shots.
I've shot several team matches like this and used a Gold ring fixed power (20X) Leupold spotter mounted on an old Ruger 10/22 stock with bi-pod and sling. Quick to deploy, easy to carry, and could see trace. We both used it to correct shots.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
Lotta "rope smokin" goin on here. Spider webs at the NRA show...yeah that's a real optical test!
Lotta "rope smokin" goin on here. Spider webs at the NRA show...yeah that's a real optical test!
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
Knowing steve123 personally (and his gear) I wouldn't question his judgement. I don't think he inferred the opinion he shared was to be a substitute for a lab analysis of the different scopes, I think he was just sharing what he saw (which is what the end users usually rely on anyway).
I haven't noticed enough appreciable difference between the Swaro's and the Kowa's to justify the cost. I haven't eyeballed a Leica, but have looked through plenty of Swaro's.
But, as your signature says "Facts are nice but perceptions are all that count".
Knowing steve123 personally (and his gear) I wouldn't question his judgement. I don't think he inferred the opinion he shared was to be a substitute for a lab analysis of the different scopes, I think he was just sharing what he saw (which is what the end users usually rely on anyway).
I haven't noticed enough appreciable difference between the Swaro's and the Kowa's to justify the cost. I haven't eyeballed a Leica, but have looked through plenty of Swaro's.
But, as your signature says "Facts are nice but perceptions are all that count".
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
Lotta "rope smokin" goin on here...LOL
You'd just have to look through one of those new KOWA's MR Humble.Yes,they are that clear.
Your right,not much of a test but I bet we could even see the dust and spiderwebs in your cluttered mind with one.LOL
Steve
Lotta "rope smokin" goin on here...LOL
You'd just have to look through one of those new KOWA's MR Humble.Yes,they are that clear.
Your right,not much of a test but I bet we could even see the dust and spiderwebs in your cluttered mind with one.LOL
Steve
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: triton19</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright guys, need advice on a spotter for competitions with shots out to 1K. Needs to be prone friendly. </div></div>
Here's one:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1305922&gonew=1#UNREAD
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: triton19</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alright guys, need advice on a spotter for competitions with shots out to 1K. Needs to be prone friendly. </div></div>
Here's one:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1305922&gonew=1#UNREAD
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
Yes there is... but you can't aford it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
Yes there is... but you can't aford it.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
+1 more on the Kowa. I did my own test, side by side, between the Kowa 65 and the Swaro 65. The Outdoorsman in Phoenix allowed us to test both several times during the day, particularly in low-light conditions. Both were on tripods and pointed at a mountain some 1,900 yds away where a hiking trail could be clearly seen. Using hikers as reference points, we looked at brightness, color transmission, clarity, depth, definition, etc. In some aspects the Swaro was better, but overall, I had to give the nod to the Kowa. No one was more surprised than I. In the end, I went with a Kowa 82.
+1 more on the Kowa. I did my own test, side by side, between the Kowa 65 and the Swaro 65. The Outdoorsman in Phoenix allowed us to test both several times during the day, particularly in low-light conditions. Both were on tripods and pointed at a mountain some 1,900 yds away where a hiking trail could be clearly seen. Using hikers as reference points, we looked at brightness, color transmission, clarity, depth, definition, etc. In some aspects the Swaro was better, but overall, I had to give the nod to the Kowa. No one was more surprised than I. In the end, I went with a Kowa 82.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
hmmm... funny, I've never seen spotters in my targets at any of the tactical matches I've shot... and there have been MANY shots at 1K...
I guess they're doing it wrong....
Once again, Mrs. Humbled enlightens us all with her knowledge...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
hmmm... funny, I've never seen spotters in my targets at any of the tactical matches I've shot... and there have been MANY shots at 1K...
I guess they're doing it wrong....
Once again, Mrs. Humbled enlightens us all with her knowledge...
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably because they can't afford a Swaro or Leica.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably because they can't afford a Swaro or Leica.
</div></div>
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
hmmm... funny, I've never seen spotters in my targets at any of the tactical matches I've shot... and there have been MANY shots at 1K...
I guess they're doing it wrong....
Once again, Mrs. Humbled enlightens us all with her knowledge...
</div></div>
You havent been shooting all the 1K matches then. Maybe the matches you shoot at dont use spotters, but there are definively more than a few that do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
hmmm... funny, I've never seen spotters in my targets at any of the tactical matches I've shot... and there have been MANY shots at 1K...
I guess they're doing it wrong....
Once again, Mrs. Humbled enlightens us all with her knowledge...
</div></div>
You havent been shooting all the 1K matches then. Maybe the matches you shoot at dont use spotters, but there are definively more than a few that do.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smokin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
hmmm... funny, I've never seen spotters in my targets at any of the tactical matches I've shot... and there have been MANY shots at 1K...
I guess they're doing it wrong....
Once again, Mrs. Humbled enlightens us all with her knowledge...
</div></div>
</div></div>
I was referring to the matches that the OP mentioned.
Most times the teams use what has been mentioned. The spotter uses a higher magnification scope to spot for the precision guy... no time to break out a spotter during the stages...
You havent been shooting all the 1K matches then. Maybe the matches you shoot at dont use spotters, but there are definively more than a few that do. [/quote]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smokin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
hmmm... funny, I've never seen spotters in my targets at any of the tactical matches I've shot... and there have been MANY shots at 1K...
I guess they're doing it wrong....
Once again, Mrs. Humbled enlightens us all with her knowledge...
</div></div>
</div></div>
I was referring to the matches that the OP mentioned.
Most times the teams use what has been mentioned. The spotter uses a higher magnification scope to spot for the precision guy... no time to break out a spotter during the stages...
You havent been shooting all the 1K matches then. Maybe the matches you shoot at dont use spotters, but there are definively more than a few that do. [/quote]
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
For prone matches where someone is pulling your target, any good quality 30x scope will work. I'd be careful not to get too big a scope because the wind will blow it around more. I think a 60mm objective is perfect. I use a Swaro 65mm with 30x wide angle eyepiece and it works great. Most of the folks on the line use the Kowa. Kowa probably provides the best bang for the buck which explains why the majority of shooters use it. At the high end, the new 80mm Kowa is best of breed too. I would not trade my Swaro for anything though.
For prone matches where someone is pulling your target, any good quality 30x scope will work. I'd be careful not to get too big a scope because the wind will blow it around more. I think a 60mm objective is perfect. I use a Swaro 65mm with 30x wide angle eyepiece and it works great. Most of the folks on the line use the Kowa. Kowa probably provides the best bang for the buck which explains why the majority of shooters use it. At the high end, the new 80mm Kowa is best of breed too. I would not trade my Swaro for anything though.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
This is a pretty funny thread. Go to a Palma or highpower match and see what people are using for 600 to 1000 yard matches: that will be a real eye opener. For one thing, you will be amazed at how many Kowas are being used: well over 50% of the shooters use Kowas. These folks are some of the best shooters in the world and can shoot better with iron sights and a sling than most of us can do with a scope and bipod.
I use a Swarovski, but that just identifies me as the high-paid geek who has more money than time or sense.
Anyway, back to the boring debate.
Oh and Mr. Humble, I thought you knew a few things till I read your posts herein. Come on man, pull your head out of your arse. You said some things in this thread that are completely ignorant. You think Nightforce is an American company? They use Japanese glass dude. You think Kowa is not top notch? Their 883 is currently regarded as the best spotter available... Leica? Who uses Leica for competitive shooting? They make great stuff and their range finders are the best....but I don't know too many folks using their spotters for competition.
This is a pretty funny thread. Go to a Palma or highpower match and see what people are using for 600 to 1000 yard matches: that will be a real eye opener. For one thing, you will be amazed at how many Kowas are being used: well over 50% of the shooters use Kowas. These folks are some of the best shooters in the world and can shoot better with iron sights and a sling than most of us can do with a scope and bipod.
I use a Swarovski, but that just identifies me as the high-paid geek who has more money than time or sense.
Anyway, back to the boring debate.Oh and Mr. Humble, I thought you knew a few things till I read your posts herein. Come on man, pull your head out of your arse. You said some things in this thread that are completely ignorant. You think Nightforce is an American company? They use Japanese glass dude. You think Kowa is not top notch? Their 883 is currently regarded as the best spotter available... Leica? Who uses Leica for competitive shooting? They make great stuff and their range finders are the best....but I don't know too many folks using their spotters for competition.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
I have not used the newest of the Kowa, but for high power/Palma matches out to 1000yds., the Kowa are all you need. Years ago, I used a Leica (sponsored at the time) and the clarity was amazing. With that said, you do not need extreme clarity to look at a 6 inch spotter. The lighting conditions are usually poor enough due to mirage while prone that you cannot tell the difference in a Kowa and a Leica anyway, so why pay the extra money for something you will not use.
Unfortunately, the German and Austrian companies can be a pain if there is ever a problem.
Leave the higher priced spotters for the birders where color might be really important. Get a Kowa for looking at that black or white spotter while shooting.
I have not used the newest of the Kowa, but for high power/Palma matches out to 1000yds., the Kowa are all you need. Years ago, I used a Leica (sponsored at the time) and the clarity was amazing. With that said, you do not need extreme clarity to look at a 6 inch spotter. The lighting conditions are usually poor enough due to mirage while prone that you cannot tell the difference in a Kowa and a Leica anyway, so why pay the extra money for something you will not use.
Unfortunately, the German and Austrian companies can be a pain if there is ever a problem.
Leave the higher priced spotters for the birders where color might be really important. Get a Kowa for looking at that black or white spotter while shooting.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
Has anybody used the 20x or 30x leupold compact? If so how well do they work for run&gun and can you see trace? they are really small which would be good for these types of matches where you are moving several hundreds of yards.
Has anybody used the 20x or 30x leupold compact? If so how well do they work for run&gun and can you see trace? they are really small which would be good for these types of matches where you are moving several hundreds of yards.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
Triton, you have your answer: get a Kowa dammit! 661. I don't even have a Kowa and will tell you that. Get it with a fixed 20x or 30x wide-angle eyepiece and be happy. Next subject.
Triton, you have your answer: get a Kowa dammit!
661. I don't even have a Kowa and will tell you that. Get it with a fixed 20x or 30x wide-angle eyepiece and be happy. Next subject.Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
I have a new Kowa 77mm and it's great. I did look through a buddies Zeiss 85mm scope, and it was really clear as well, and the eye relief was better than my Kowa, but the eye relief alone did not justify the 1k extra for me.
I have a new Kowa 77mm and it's great. I did look through a buddies Zeiss 85mm scope, and it was really clear as well, and the eye relief was better than my Kowa, but the eye relief alone did not justify the 1k extra for me.
Re: Which spotting scope for competition?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably because they can't afford a Swaro or Leica.
I hope you are not really going to try and tell me the Kowa is the equal of a SWARO or Leica? If it or any Jap optics were, I doubt Nightforce or S&B would be in the riflescope business very long. "Marines adopt Bushnells!" LOL!
There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
HMMM... funny, considering NF are japanese optics. last time i heard anyway
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably because they can't afford a Swaro or Leica.
I hope you are not really going to try and tell me the Kowa is the equal of a SWARO or Leica? If it or any Jap optics were, I doubt Nightforce or S&B would be in the riflescope business very long. "Marines adopt Bushnells!" LOL!
There is no scope that can see bullets holes @1000, that is why spotters are placed on the target (since they have been since the start of 1000 yards matches). </div></div>
HMMM... funny, considering NF are japanese optics. last time i heard anyway