Rifle Scopes Who offers payment plans on glass?
- Thread starter TresMon
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Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Mastercard, Visa, Discovery, Vito Corleone, Tony Montana, Jimmy Burke, those are just some off the top of my head. There may be more.
Mastercard, Visa, Discovery, Vito Corleone, Tony Montana, Jimmy Burke, those are just some off the top of my head. There may be more.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
we finance 6 months interest free through GE capital, also offer layaway
we finance 6 months interest free through GE capital, also offer layaway
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
I believe EuroOptic still does payment plans. He used to send you the scope before you even had it paid off. He stopped doing that after being burned by some gutter trash people. However I think he will still let you make payments until you have the scope paid off.
I believe EuroOptic still does payment plans. He used to send you the scope before you even had it paid off. He stopped doing that after being burned by some gutter trash people. However I think he will still let you make payments until you have the scope paid off.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JBW#3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO as well.
John III </div></div>
For the win!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JBW#3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO as well.
John III </div></div>
For the win!!!
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
I just bought a Nightforce through Bear Basin Outfitters and they were great to work with. They offer financing though GE Capital.
I just bought a Nightforce through Bear Basin Outfitters and they were great to work with. They offer financing though GE Capital.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Huh, never thought about a payment plan for optics... good to know USO does this. Will definitely keep this in mind if I want to upgrade from my NXS.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JBW#3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO as well.
John III </div></div>
For the win!!! </div></div>
Huh, never thought about a payment plan for optics... good to know USO does this. Will definitely keep this in mind if I want to upgrade from my NXS.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JBW#3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO as well.
John III </div></div>
For the win!!! </div></div>
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. Debt is what is destroying this country. You can get great glass dirt cheap and it's just not worth it to take on debt for a hobby. My cousin took out a loan to buy an engagement ring recently and I thought, what a sad thing, to begin a marriage with debt for something so frivolous. When you stick to paying cash, you will get better value for your cash and you won't over-extend. Don't listen to the seductive debt sirens! Now, let the tomato throwing begin.
If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. Debt is what is destroying this country. You can get great glass dirt cheap and it's just not worth it to take on debt for a hobby. My cousin took out a loan to buy an engagement ring recently and I thought, what a sad thing, to begin a marriage with debt for something so frivolous. When you stick to paying cash, you will get better value for your cash and you won't over-extend. Don't listen to the seductive debt sirens! Now, let the tomato throwing begin.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. Debt is what is destroying this country. You can get great glass dirt cheap and it's just not worth it to take on debt for a hobby. My cousin took out a loan to buy an engagement ring recently and I thought, what a sad thing, to begin a marriage with debt for something so frivolous. Debt destroys families and great nations....let the tomato throwing begin!
</div></div>
Your free to speak your mind here, but it should be notated that it is "just your opinion". There is nothing wrong with financing something intrest free for 12 months. Your using someone elses money for free. If your not rich then you have to finance things if you want to have nice stuff. Yeah I suppose you could save $35,000 for that new car you want, but by the time you get it saved that car will be a classic. Debt does not destroy anyone or anything. People make bad choices or do not prioritize correctly and that's where the issues begin. A high ranking CEO of a well know company once told me "son, if you don't have debt, your never gonna have shit". I financed a NightForce through Bear Basin last year. Yeah I could have paid cash for it no problem, but it was intrest free for 12 months. That's a no-brainer. I used their money, paid my payments (2 at a time actually) and got my scope, kept my $1600 in the bank, and added another positive line of credit to my credit score.
Anyway.....to the original poster, Bear Basin does financing and they are great to work with. It takes about 10 min over the phone and your optic will be enroute the same day.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. Debt is what is destroying this country. You can get great glass dirt cheap and it's just not worth it to take on debt for a hobby. My cousin took out a loan to buy an engagement ring recently and I thought, what a sad thing, to begin a marriage with debt for something so frivolous. Debt destroys families and great nations....let the tomato throwing begin!
Your free to speak your mind here, but it should be notated that it is "just your opinion". There is nothing wrong with financing something intrest free for 12 months. Your using someone elses money for free. If your not rich then you have to finance things if you want to have nice stuff. Yeah I suppose you could save $35,000 for that new car you want, but by the time you get it saved that car will be a classic. Debt does not destroy anyone or anything. People make bad choices or do not prioritize correctly and that's where the issues begin. A high ranking CEO of a well know company once told me "son, if you don't have debt, your never gonna have shit". I financed a NightForce through Bear Basin last year. Yeah I could have paid cash for it no problem, but it was intrest free for 12 months. That's a no-brainer. I used their money, paid my payments (2 at a time actually) and got my scope, kept my $1600 in the bank, and added another positive line of credit to my credit score.
Anyway.....to the original poster, Bear Basin does financing and they are great to work with. It takes about 10 min over the phone and your optic will be enroute the same day.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Just did the bear basin credit, on a set of bushnell fusion. I have the money, but pay half now, spread the other half over six months interest free... sounds good to me. Only thing about it I havent liked, is that I ordered a week ago yesterday, and still havent gotten it. Was supposed to be here on friday.
Just did the bear basin credit, on a set of bushnell fusion. I have the money, but pay half now, spread the other half over six months interest free... sounds good to me. Only thing about it I havent liked, is that I ordered a week ago yesterday, and still havent gotten it. Was supposed to be here on friday.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. Debt is what is destroying this country. You can get great glass dirt cheap and it's just not worth it to take on debt for a hobby. My cousin took out a loan to buy an engagement ring recently and I thought, what a sad thing, to begin a marriage with debt for something so frivolous. Debt destroys families and great nations....let the tomato throwing begin!
</div></div>
Your free to speak your mind here, but it should be notated that it is "just your opinion". There is nothing wrong with financing something intrest free for 12 months. Your using someone elses money for free. If your not rich then you have to finance things if you want to have nice stuff. Yeah I suppose you could save $35,000 for that new car you want, but by the time you get it saved that car will be a classic. Debt does not destroy anyone or anything. People make bad choices or do not prioritize correctly and that's where the issues begin. A high ranking CEO of a well know company once told me "son, if you don't have debt, your never gonna have shit". I financed a NightForce through Bear Basin last year. Yeah I could have paid cash for it no problem, but it was intrest free for 12 months. That's a no-brainer. I used their money, paid my payments (2 at a time actually) and got my scope, kept my $1600 in the bank, and added another positive line of credit to my credit score.
Anyway.....to the original poster, Bear Basin does financing and they are great to work with. It takes about 10 min over the phone and your optic will be enroute the same day. </div></div>
Good post !
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. Debt is what is destroying this country. You can get great glass dirt cheap and it's just not worth it to take on debt for a hobby. My cousin took out a loan to buy an engagement ring recently and I thought, what a sad thing, to begin a marriage with debt for something so frivolous. Debt destroys families and great nations....let the tomato throwing begin!
Your free to speak your mind here, but it should be notated that it is "just your opinion". There is nothing wrong with financing something intrest free for 12 months. Your using someone elses money for free. If your not rich then you have to finance things if you want to have nice stuff. Yeah I suppose you could save $35,000 for that new car you want, but by the time you get it saved that car will be a classic. Debt does not destroy anyone or anything. People make bad choices or do not prioritize correctly and that's where the issues begin. A high ranking CEO of a well know company once told me "son, if you don't have debt, your never gonna have shit". I financed a NightForce through Bear Basin last year. Yeah I could have paid cash for it no problem, but it was intrest free for 12 months. That's a no-brainer. I used their money, paid my payments (2 at a time actually) and got my scope, kept my $1600 in the bank, and added another positive line of credit to my credit score.
Anyway.....to the original poster, Bear Basin does financing and they are great to work with. It takes about 10 min over the phone and your optic will be enroute the same day. </div></div>
Good post !
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. Debt is what is destroying this country. You can get great glass dirt cheap and it's just not worth it to take on debt for a hobby. My cousin took out a loan to buy an engagement ring recently and I thought, what a sad thing, to begin a marriage with debt for something so frivolous. Debt destroys families and great nations....let the tomato throwing begin!
</div></div>
Your free to speak your mind here, but it should be notated that it is "just your opinion". There is nothing wrong with financing something intrest free for 12 months. Your using someone elses money for free. If your not rich then you have to finance things if you want to have nice stuff. Yeah I suppose you could save $35,000 for that new car you want, but by the time you get it saved that car will be a classic. Debt does not destroy anyone or anything. People make bad choices or do not prioritize correctly and that's where the issues begin. A high ranking CEO of a well know company once told me "son, if you don't have debt, your never gonna have shit". I financed a NightForce through Bear Basin last year. Yeah I could have paid cash for it no problem, but it was intrest free for 12 months. That's a no-brainer. I used their money, paid my payments (2 at a time actually) and got my scope, kept my $1600 in the bank, and added another positive line of credit to my credit score.
Anyway.....to the original poster, Bear Basin does financing and they are great to work with. It takes about 10 min over the phone and your optic will be enroute the same day. </div></div>
Just because I like to play devils advocate....You don't need a credit score if you don't use credit
I'm not against the right kind of debt, but any debt can get you into trouble. Notes can be called, emergencies can happen, etc etc. In 31 years we've used our line of credit at work once, it was for 4 days. We're no big corporation, but we do pretty well without debt.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. Debt is what is destroying this country. You can get great glass dirt cheap and it's just not worth it to take on debt for a hobby. My cousin took out a loan to buy an engagement ring recently and I thought, what a sad thing, to begin a marriage with debt for something so frivolous. Debt destroys families and great nations....let the tomato throwing begin!
Your free to speak your mind here, but it should be notated that it is "just your opinion". There is nothing wrong with financing something intrest free for 12 months. Your using someone elses money for free. If your not rich then you have to finance things if you want to have nice stuff. Yeah I suppose you could save $35,000 for that new car you want, but by the time you get it saved that car will be a classic. Debt does not destroy anyone or anything. People make bad choices or do not prioritize correctly and that's where the issues begin. A high ranking CEO of a well know company once told me "son, if you don't have debt, your never gonna have shit". I financed a NightForce through Bear Basin last year. Yeah I could have paid cash for it no problem, but it was intrest free for 12 months. That's a no-brainer. I used their money, paid my payments (2 at a time actually) and got my scope, kept my $1600 in the bank, and added another positive line of credit to my credit score.
Anyway.....to the original poster, Bear Basin does financing and they are great to work with. It takes about 10 min over the phone and your optic will be enroute the same day. </div></div>
Just because I like to play devils advocate....You don't need a credit score if you don't use credit
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Credit is a good thing for a House or Business. Even for a car it's ok because it is something you need to get you to work to make income to pay for the house.
However, I am going to play bad guy too and say you should not be going in debt due for your hobbies. A little debt is OK, but going under water to have a $5000 cool gun and scope should be avoided.
I guess it's all relative on how much you make, for me $5000 is a lot of money and will take a year to pay off. I guess if you make $5000 in spending cash a month, then it is no big deal.
What you should use debt for is emergencies. If an emergency does occur and your credit is maxed out, no one to blame but yourself.
Credit is a good thing for a House or Business. Even for a car it's ok because it is something you need to get you to work to make income to pay for the house.
However, I am going to play bad guy too and say you should not be going in debt due for your hobbies. A little debt is OK, but going under water to have a $5000 cool gun and scope should be avoided.
I guess it's all relative on how much you make, for me $5000 is a lot of money and will take a year to pay off. I guess if you make $5000 in spending cash a month, then it is no big deal.
What you should use debt for is emergencies. If an emergency does occur and your credit is maxed out, no one to blame but yourself.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Very interesting read. I've been down this road (to many times) and it's a give and take situation here. We are all big boys and girls so hopefully we know what we're doing when buying anything on credit.
To each his / her own I suppose and if you get in a pinch or emergency comes along then you're (family to if you have any) at risk, just like anything else you are responsible.
When I was short on cash I'd buy what I could afford. Right now I'm fortionate enough to be able to stretch my budget but it makes me think twice though just because I can. Before it was always box stock guns with some tuning and now it's a Skunkworks rig. Before it was a barrowed Leupold 12x from a friend, then a SS 10x40, next was a Mk4 and after that a USO ST10 and now it might just be another USO but a variable this time around but, it's not to say I might not end up back with MK4 again. Just because I can afford a Premier, S&B, or Zeiss it doesn't mean I can justify it. There is progression but it all takes patience which I seem to fall short of at times.
I say using some credit to buy gun stuff can be ok (my own opinion), don't go over board, only you know your own situation, and do not finance the whole lot. Put a chunk of money down on the damn thing.
ok, done, next in line?
Very interesting read. I've been down this road (to many times) and it's a give and take situation here. We are all big boys and girls so hopefully we know what we're doing when buying anything on credit.
To each his / her own I suppose and if you get in a pinch or emergency comes along then you're (family to if you have any) at risk, just like anything else you are responsible.
When I was short on cash I'd buy what I could afford. Right now I'm fortionate enough to be able to stretch my budget but it makes me think twice though just because I can. Before it was always box stock guns with some tuning and now it's a Skunkworks rig. Before it was a barrowed Leupold 12x from a friend, then a SS 10x40, next was a Mk4 and after that a USO ST10 and now it might just be another USO but a variable this time around but, it's not to say I might not end up back with MK4 again. Just because I can afford a Premier, S&B, or Zeiss it doesn't mean I can justify it. There is progression but it all takes patience which I seem to fall short of at times.
I say using some credit to buy gun stuff can be ok (my own opinion), don't go over board, only you know your own situation, and do not finance the whole lot. Put a chunk of money down on the damn thing.
ok, done, next in line?
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Good post and I agree. I can relate to what your saying with my own situations over the past 5yrs. I can remember when I got my first "real" job. I had to go to Ohio for 3 months of training. I can remember calling my wife at night back home and asking her how much money we had. She'd reply, well we have $350 in checking and $200 in savings. We thought we were doing good!! Now, 7yrs later, we keep around $100K in checking and alot more in savings. We are not wealthy, but we do ok and looking back on those time when we first got married really makes me appreciate what we have now.
Good post and I agree. I can relate to what your saying with my own situations over the past 5yrs. I can remember when I got my first "real" job. I had to go to Ohio for 3 months of training. I can remember calling my wife at night back home and asking her how much money we had. She'd reply, well we have $350 in checking and $200 in savings. We thought we were doing good!! Now, 7yrs later, we keep around $100K in checking and alot more in savings. We are not wealthy, but we do ok and looking back on those time when we first got married really makes me appreciate what we have now.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
The thing is Jason, according to our current economy we are the problem not the solution. We are the bad guys.
This whole "loosening of credit for small business" is the biggest crock of shit to float down the stream in a while.
Think about it - borrow money to hire people and make payroll? So, you are running a business that does not have the volume and/or margins to justify more employees, so you go out and borrow the money for payroll? In a flat to down trending economy, how does this inject the volume and/or margin into your business to make it service the additional debt, let alone pay it back?
Maybe if you invested the money in a good printer you could do just like the Fed and print your own money... Hey there's an idea.
Buy now/pay forever is the American Way. Got a decrease in your revenue? Simple - go to the mall and spend more money on credit. Make sure and buy non-durable goods made in China so that the big businesses can make great margin on your purchase and the Govt can collect the import duties and taxes on it. That'll fix the economy in the long run. Sure it will.
Never let someone else tell you what you can and cannot afford. Institutions will loan you money right up to the point of bankruptcy.
We've had the two biggest consumer meltdowns ever in the last 4 years - the housing collapse and the consumer debt (an oxymoron BTW) collapse. Us bad guys, you know the ones that live within our means and have actual capital, are underwriting it with the devaluation of our assets.
Yea, go ahead and get that loan for the scope.
BTW, you smart guys that think the interest free thing is a good thing, think again. Yea, I do the thing too where I use the money for free for 6-12 months, but the program is not set up for us. It is designed for the people that CAN'T afford it, to get them to spend money they don't have, and have no prayer of having when the total is due. Think about it - if they had the $1000 today, they would have savings habits that allowed them to accumulate it PRIOR TO TODAY. So they get the new whatever for a grand - and don't change their spending/savings habits. BAM - 6 or 12 months from now, they get hit with the back interest on the "free" money, then have interest going forward until it is paid off.
Just another consumer debt scam. They win on that one a lot more times than they lose.
Pepsi didn't buy Taco Bell because they wanted to sell Tacos - they did it because they want to sell Pepsi. All consumer debt programs of this type are designed to get people to spend money the don't have. The product isn't the product, the product is THE DEBT. I have also heard it referred to as "The Great Lie".
BearBasin and others get a kickback on these types of loans. The whole thing is packaged up as a way for them to make a little more coin. More volume plus a kickback - gotta love it. Sign me up.
The thing is Jason, according to our current economy we are the problem not the solution. We are the bad guys.
This whole "loosening of credit for small business" is the biggest crock of shit to float down the stream in a while.
Think about it - borrow money to hire people and make payroll? So, you are running a business that does not have the volume and/or margins to justify more employees, so you go out and borrow the money for payroll? In a flat to down trending economy, how does this inject the volume and/or margin into your business to make it service the additional debt, let alone pay it back?
Maybe if you invested the money in a good printer you could do just like the Fed and print your own money... Hey there's an idea.
Buy now/pay forever is the American Way. Got a decrease in your revenue? Simple - go to the mall and spend more money on credit. Make sure and buy non-durable goods made in China so that the big businesses can make great margin on your purchase and the Govt can collect the import duties and taxes on it. That'll fix the economy in the long run. Sure it will.
Never let someone else tell you what you can and cannot afford. Institutions will loan you money right up to the point of bankruptcy.
We've had the two biggest consumer meltdowns ever in the last 4 years - the housing collapse and the consumer debt (an oxymoron BTW) collapse. Us bad guys, you know the ones that live within our means and have actual capital, are underwriting it with the devaluation of our assets.
Yea, go ahead and get that loan for the scope.
BTW, you smart guys that think the interest free thing is a good thing, think again. Yea, I do the thing too where I use the money for free for 6-12 months, but the program is not set up for us. It is designed for the people that CAN'T afford it, to get them to spend money they don't have, and have no prayer of having when the total is due. Think about it - if they had the $1000 today, they would have savings habits that allowed them to accumulate it PRIOR TO TODAY. So they get the new whatever for a grand - and don't change their spending/savings habits. BAM - 6 or 12 months from now, they get hit with the back interest on the "free" money, then have interest going forward until it is paid off.
Just another consumer debt scam. They win on that one a lot more times than they lose.
Pepsi didn't buy Taco Bell because they wanted to sell Tacos - they did it because they want to sell Pepsi. All consumer debt programs of this type are designed to get people to spend money the don't have. The product isn't the product, the product is THE DEBT. I have also heard it referred to as "The Great Lie".
BearBasin and others get a kickback on these types of loans. The whole thing is packaged up as a way for them to make a little more coin. More volume plus a kickback - gotta love it. Sign me up.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
9H,
One of the best non-gun related posts i have seen on this site. I agree 100%. You either get the message if that post or not. Unfortunately, people in this country live for today and not tomorrow. We don't have a 5 or 10 yr plan. Ask any politician, economist, President what is our 10yr plan and they will have no answer. We make fun of or laugh at the "Chinese" but they own us. Hell we borrow money to the point of survival from them.
You know what the difference is? They have a plan. No they didn't have a 5 or 10yr plan but they have had a 50yr plan. It is well known and documented and it is playing out like the way they wanted. Borrow if you have to but not for something like a scope or rifle.
9H,
One of the best non-gun related posts i have seen on this site. I agree 100%. You either get the message if that post or not. Unfortunately, people in this country live for today and not tomorrow. We don't have a 5 or 10 yr plan. Ask any politician, economist, President what is our 10yr plan and they will have no answer. We make fun of or laugh at the "Chinese" but they own us. Hell we borrow money to the point of survival from them.
You know what the difference is? They have a plan. No they didn't have a 5 or 10yr plan but they have had a 50yr plan. It is well known and documented and it is playing out like the way they wanted. Borrow if you have to but not for something like a scope or rifle.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
I'm pretty easy to work with -- let me know what you have in mind...
Kevin
I'm pretty easy to work with -- let me know what you have in mind...
Kevin
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
+1 on Bearbasin...I have bought 2 Nxs from them..good service
Never financed one though.
+1 on Bearbasin...I have bought 2 Nxs from them..good service
Never financed one though.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Pay it off before the loan expires or it is compounding interest over the whole 6 or 12 mo
Pay it off before the loan expires or it is compounding interest over the whole 6 or 12 mo
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
I thought about this a little more. The original question was "payment plan" not credit or loan.
So, either the OP saves money and pays for something later or makes payments over time and gets the scope later. What's the difference?
USO is a perfect example of that. Order your glass, pay 50% down and continue to make payments until it's done. That's the way it works with them. And sometimes it really works to your advantage when they have a long lead time. Just like ordering custom rifles. Make a deposit and pay on it while it's being built. Look at some of the lead time out there when asking about a custom build?
I still think no big deal to have a payment plan (lay-away) for stuff. Look at how many people out there have done it like that for Christmas gifts. No it's not a common any more but folks still do it because they can't afford to just dump a ton of money on presents and or dont have the "credit" to just buy.
next....................
I thought about this a little more. The original question was "payment plan" not credit or loan.
So, either the OP saves money and pays for something later or makes payments over time and gets the scope later. What's the difference?
USO is a perfect example of that. Order your glass, pay 50% down and continue to make payments until it's done. That's the way it works with them. And sometimes it really works to your advantage when they have a long lead time. Just like ordering custom rifles. Make a deposit and pay on it while it's being built. Look at some of the lead time out there when asking about a custom build?
I still think no big deal to have a payment plan (lay-away) for stuff. Look at how many people out there have done it like that for Christmas gifts. No it's not a common any more but folks still do it because they can't afford to just dump a ton of money on presents and or dont have the "credit" to just buy.
next....................
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
9H,
i agree with many of your points, but i feel that many of your other points are those of morals/ethics.
i think that your making it seem as if all forms financing are a form of predatory lending. bear basin more likely than not will receive a form of "kick back" from GE for making the financing option available to their customers. similarly the only way GE would make a profit would be to earn interest rate on those not able to finish payments within 12 months, but that does not make it a form a predatory lending. it is just how business works, there is a demand within the market for a products, someone fulfills that demand.
to use an extreme example, developing nations around the world finance to obtain the capital they need at exorbitant prices (>30% interest rates). but this does not make it a form of predatory lending; it is sub prime lending.
bear basin and the banks loaning to third world countries are not financing their customers with low introductory interest rates and then jacking them up halfway through as stated in fine print when the customer signed the contract. all the facts of the loan are laid out to the customer before the contract is signed.
sure institutions have no inhibitions to prevent you from defaulting. but it is your choice to either partake in new financing or not for you yourself know your current financial status the best. i agree with you that lending has caused many of the problems today, but that is due to the poor ethics of some banks and corporations who wished to make a very large sum of money fast.
financing is not a "bad" option, in fact it stimulates the economy; it is up to the individual to realize if it is a viable option for them to finance today and ethically it is the bad ethics of many business that has caused our problems today.
9H,
i agree with many of your points, but i feel that many of your other points are those of morals/ethics.
i think that your making it seem as if all forms financing are a form of predatory lending. bear basin more likely than not will receive a form of "kick back" from GE for making the financing option available to their customers. similarly the only way GE would make a profit would be to earn interest rate on those not able to finish payments within 12 months, but that does not make it a form a predatory lending. it is just how business works, there is a demand within the market for a products, someone fulfills that demand.
to use an extreme example, developing nations around the world finance to obtain the capital they need at exorbitant prices (>30% interest rates). but this does not make it a form of predatory lending; it is sub prime lending.
bear basin and the banks loaning to third world countries are not financing their customers with low introductory interest rates and then jacking them up halfway through as stated in fine print when the customer signed the contract. all the facts of the loan are laid out to the customer before the contract is signed.
sure institutions have no inhibitions to prevent you from defaulting. but it is your choice to either partake in new financing or not for you yourself know your current financial status the best. i agree with you that lending has caused many of the problems today, but that is due to the poor ethics of some banks and corporations who wished to make a very large sum of money fast.
financing is not a "bad" option, in fact it stimulates the economy; it is up to the individual to realize if it is a viable option for them to finance today and ethically it is the bad ethics of many business that has caused our problems today.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
its simple if you can't afford to lose it don't buy it. this applies to your hobby (I need to listen to myself on this one more often)
its simple if you can't afford to lose it don't buy it. this applies to your hobby (I need to listen to myself on this one more often)
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: idahoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Borrow money only for stuff that will make you more money in the short or long term. If not, dont borrow money to buy the flipping thing. My 2 cents. </div></div>
I'll put 2 cents in for that statement!
Amen.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: idahoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Borrow money only for stuff that will make you more money in the short or long term. If not, dont borrow money to buy the flipping thing. My 2 cents. </div></div>
I'll put 2 cents in for that statement!
Amen.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Ethics vs economics - that is a good one zinny.
The truth is, NOTHING can be separated from economics. It is at the core of our being, our existence. All social, political, and power structures are directly related to it. Ethics fall under social structure. The two cannot be separated.
There are a lucky few of us whose fiscal behavior was not greatly influenced by the post WWII government propaganda campaign (carried out by the puppet mainstream media) that propelled our current economic state. The problem is, it has quit working. Printing more money to propel it further won't work anymore. The assets of this country have been marginalized to the point that we can no longer sustain this faux growth.
We have but one thing to offer the global economy - our ability to make war. Our war actions are in direct support of the political agreements we have with other nations to support the furthering of our agreed-upon economic agendas. Why us? Two reasons. One, we are good at it, and two more importantly BTW, IT SUPPORTS OUR GDP. Being inefficient domestically props up our economy as it is structured today. Why don't we become more efficient as a country, a government? For good reason - IT WOULD HURT OUR ECONOMY as it is currently structured.
Actually we offer up two things to the global economy. Besides our ability to make war, our second offering is our ability to consume. Our ability to consume drives our imports. Why import? So that the base cost of the goods is lower. Since we have relatively high incomes, this base cost being lower allows several things to occur. One, we import from our political allies, so the host government makes money. Two, we have import duties, so that our government gets a piece of the action right up front. Three, a handful of major corporations have high margin that goes back into the political system to help influence the politics to support their business plans. A viscous circle.
As our ability to consume comes into question, so does our political clout on a global basis. So, why print more money and free up more money to be spent by the American people?
Answer that one for yourself.
On the payment plans versus credit plans, yes there is a difference. If as in the case they offer to help one with their saving discipline, then yes that is a pretty good thing. Agreed.
The reference to GE Capital? Uh, I guess you haven't read up on what impact that division's behavior has had on the bigger company. Look at GMAC as another shining example. "We can't make money on manufacturing, so let's play the numbers game and make our money ON the money..." Which is it, a Pepsi or a taco you are selling? It's the Pepsi.
I heard on the radio today that the FDIC is preparing indictments against the principals of 300 failed banks. Please explain to me how the consumers they "served" is somehow a good thing. I'm missing it.
Ethics vs economics - that is a good one zinny.
The truth is, NOTHING can be separated from economics. It is at the core of our being, our existence. All social, political, and power structures are directly related to it. Ethics fall under social structure. The two cannot be separated.
There are a lucky few of us whose fiscal behavior was not greatly influenced by the post WWII government propaganda campaign (carried out by the puppet mainstream media) that propelled our current economic state. The problem is, it has quit working. Printing more money to propel it further won't work anymore. The assets of this country have been marginalized to the point that we can no longer sustain this faux growth.
We have but one thing to offer the global economy - our ability to make war. Our war actions are in direct support of the political agreements we have with other nations to support the furthering of our agreed-upon economic agendas. Why us? Two reasons. One, we are good at it, and two more importantly BTW, IT SUPPORTS OUR GDP. Being inefficient domestically props up our economy as it is structured today. Why don't we become more efficient as a country, a government? For good reason - IT WOULD HURT OUR ECONOMY as it is currently structured.
Actually we offer up two things to the global economy. Besides our ability to make war, our second offering is our ability to consume. Our ability to consume drives our imports. Why import? So that the base cost of the goods is lower. Since we have relatively high incomes, this base cost being lower allows several things to occur. One, we import from our political allies, so the host government makes money. Two, we have import duties, so that our government gets a piece of the action right up front. Three, a handful of major corporations have high margin that goes back into the political system to help influence the politics to support their business plans. A viscous circle.
As our ability to consume comes into question, so does our political clout on a global basis. So, why print more money and free up more money to be spent by the American people?
Answer that one for yourself.
On the payment plans versus credit plans, yes there is a difference. If as in the case they offer to help one with their saving discipline, then yes that is a pretty good thing. Agreed.
The reference to GE Capital? Uh, I guess you haven't read up on what impact that division's behavior has had on the bigger company. Look at GMAC as another shining example. "We can't make money on manufacturing, so let's play the numbers game and make our money ON the money..." Which is it, a Pepsi or a taco you are selling? It's the Pepsi.
I heard on the radio today that the FDIC is preparing indictments against the principals of 300 failed banks. Please explain to me how the consumers they "served" is somehow a good thing. I'm missing it.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This whole "loosening of credit for small business" is the biggest crock of shit to float down the stream in a while.
Think about it - borrow money to hire people and make payroll? So, you are running a business that does not have the volume and/or margins to justify more employees, so you go out and borrow the money for payroll? In a flat to down trending economy, how does this inject the volume and/or margin into your business to make it service the additional debt, let alone pay it back?
</div></div>
I respect your opinion, but I think you're using one pathological example to demonstrate that credit is bad for small business. For sure, if you have employees to make X widgets, which matches your demand, borrowing money to hire people to make X+Y widgets (a surplus) is stupid. But that assumes a totally steady state business model with sort-of "linear" expansion. It does not apply when sort-of "nonlinear" growth is needed.
If my business needed to deliver 10x more suppressors in 2011 than 2010 (and those sales were "guaranteed"), we would need to get access to money somehow to fund the additional factory space, machines, payroll, benefits, etc, that would enable us to make the product, deliver it to the customer, and get paid and make our profit. This is the same situation that happens when a new product is invented and brought to market, and someone other than the inventor himself has the money to invest.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This whole "loosening of credit for small business" is the biggest crock of shit to float down the stream in a while.
Think about it - borrow money to hire people and make payroll? So, you are running a business that does not have the volume and/or margins to justify more employees, so you go out and borrow the money for payroll? In a flat to down trending economy, how does this inject the volume and/or margin into your business to make it service the additional debt, let alone pay it back?
</div></div>
I respect your opinion, but I think you're using one pathological example to demonstrate that credit is bad for small business. For sure, if you have employees to make X widgets, which matches your demand, borrowing money to hire people to make X+Y widgets (a surplus) is stupid. But that assumes a totally steady state business model with sort-of "linear" expansion. It does not apply when sort-of "nonlinear" growth is needed.
If my business needed to deliver 10x more suppressors in 2011 than 2010 (and those sales were "guaranteed"), we would need to get access to money somehow to fund the additional factory space, machines, payroll, benefits, etc, that would enable us to make the product, deliver it to the customer, and get paid and make our profit. This is the same situation that happens when a new product is invented and brought to market, and someone other than the inventor himself has the money to invest.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KJO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm pretty easy to work with -- let me know what you have in mind...
Kevin </div></div>
I can vouche for that!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KJO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm pretty easy to work with -- let me know what you have in mind...
Kevin </div></div>
I can vouche for that!
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
My idea of a payment plan is putting xx amount of dollars in an envelope every week until theres enough there for the desired item. Which right now happens to be a scope.
My idea of a payment plan is putting xx amount of dollars in an envelope every week until theres enough there for the desired item. Which right now happens to be a scope.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
9H,
ive read similar arguments about our current economy and i am not sure i am in agreement. but that's for another time.
hey maybe that's what will happen in 2012, when all the dollars within the world systematically rush back into the country causing catastrophic hyperinflation that sink our economy and every other economy with it
.
i am unsure how through your assessment of our current economy, you can correlate everything with economics; including morals/ethics. you talk about post wwII propaganda, our spending habits, and now apparently our dependency to war. but that does not explain of how NOTHING is unrelated to the economy.
similarly, asking me to "answer that one" for myself has nothing to do with financing in any way.
i am also unsure what you are getting at with ge capital. i have read that ge capital has been taking loses that seem unnecessary, but beyond that i am unaware of what other problems ge capital currently have. please enlighten me.
assuming what ive read is what you were implying. although ge's practices may seem ineffective and wasteful, that does not mean that they practice predatory lending. which would equate to financing as a poor alternative to cash up front. which is the only thing is related to financing.
the GMAC example with the taco bell and pepsi example seem to not support or weaken any part of your argument so i am confused as to why you are stating them. they seem to have more to do with vertical mergers than financing.
i don't really listen to the radio so i would not have heard of what the FDIC has done this morning, but if that is indeed true then yes that would more likely than not have been from predatory lending schemes such banks had undertaken. which would not have been good for such banks' customers. but that is predatory lending, as ive said i feel that what bear basin is doing is not a form of predatory lending. which i felt you were making it out to be.
9H,
ive read similar arguments about our current economy and i am not sure i am in agreement. but that's for another time.
hey maybe that's what will happen in 2012, when all the dollars within the world systematically rush back into the country causing catastrophic hyperinflation that sink our economy and every other economy with it
i am unsure how through your assessment of our current economy, you can correlate everything with economics; including morals/ethics. you talk about post wwII propaganda, our spending habits, and now apparently our dependency to war. but that does not explain of how NOTHING is unrelated to the economy.
similarly, asking me to "answer that one" for myself has nothing to do with financing in any way.
i am also unsure what you are getting at with ge capital. i have read that ge capital has been taking loses that seem unnecessary, but beyond that i am unaware of what other problems ge capital currently have. please enlighten me.
assuming what ive read is what you were implying. although ge's practices may seem ineffective and wasteful, that does not mean that they practice predatory lending. which would equate to financing as a poor alternative to cash up front. which is the only thing is related to financing.
the GMAC example with the taco bell and pepsi example seem to not support or weaken any part of your argument so i am confused as to why you are stating them. they seem to have more to do with vertical mergers than financing.
i don't really listen to the radio so i would not have heard of what the FDIC has done this morning, but if that is indeed true then yes that would more likely than not have been from predatory lending schemes such banks had undertaken. which would not have been good for such banks' customers. but that is predatory lending, as ive said i feel that what bear basin is doing is not a form of predatory lending. which i felt you were making it out to be.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
Zak, as usual you are right on in your pointing out my example as one thing that could happen PLUS making another example of a positive potential result of this. In fact, as I typed the post yesterday I was thinking about a small manufacturing company like yours being a good example of something that could benefit from a loosening of funds as a counter to the position I took in the post.
The question is though, a solid company like yours, does it have real credit/capital availability issues at this time that are inhibiting its growth?
My fear of this loosening is the vast majority of the money though capable of making short term positive benefits to our (flawed and failing) current economic system, what are the longer term ramifications of more uncollateralized, uncollectible debt?
As I too own a small business under an LLC with its own EIN and bank accounts, I am getting loan offers almost daily for my business. This push to loan money - is it healthy? Will it really help the economy past the short term benefit of injecting money to be used for consumables and non-durable goods? Or, will it create more bad debt load and further deflate the value of the dollars some of us hold and are receiving a quarter point or less interest on as it is? My bet is on the latter.
Couple this with the other thing going on now - printing more money to buy, are you ready for this - our own bonds? Where is real value created in this cycle?
There are economic theories that support this activity. I am trying to find the name of an author (I believe it was Takatoshi Ito) I heard speak a few weeks ago on NPR. He said that the underlying objective is to support our GDP by ANY means. His point regarding government spending was this - for every dollar an individual saves, the government must spend that same dollar in order to keep the GDP from collapsing. The more loans that are paid off (keeping in mind most loans are based on a 20+:1 margin of real cash dollars versus dollars loaned out), the more contraction we will have in the GDP.
The Fed seems to be operating in support of this theory. This makes us with money in the bank the bad guys, bucking the system, and being penalized for it by deflating the buying power of a "real" dollar.
Zak, as usual you are right on in your pointing out my example as one thing that could happen PLUS making another example of a positive potential result of this. In fact, as I typed the post yesterday I was thinking about a small manufacturing company like yours being a good example of something that could benefit from a loosening of funds as a counter to the position I took in the post.
The question is though, a solid company like yours, does it have real credit/capital availability issues at this time that are inhibiting its growth?
My fear of this loosening is the vast majority of the money though capable of making short term positive benefits to our (flawed and failing) current economic system, what are the longer term ramifications of more uncollateralized, uncollectible debt?
As I too own a small business under an LLC with its own EIN and bank accounts, I am getting loan offers almost daily for my business. This push to loan money - is it healthy? Will it really help the economy past the short term benefit of injecting money to be used for consumables and non-durable goods? Or, will it create more bad debt load and further deflate the value of the dollars some of us hold and are receiving a quarter point or less interest on as it is? My bet is on the latter.
Couple this with the other thing going on now - printing more money to buy, are you ready for this - our own bonds? Where is real value created in this cycle?
There are economic theories that support this activity. I am trying to find the name of an author (I believe it was Takatoshi Ito) I heard speak a few weeks ago on NPR. He said that the underlying objective is to support our GDP by ANY means. His point regarding government spending was this - for every dollar an individual saves, the government must spend that same dollar in order to keep the GDP from collapsing. The more loans that are paid off (keeping in mind most loans are based on a 20+:1 margin of real cash dollars versus dollars loaned out), the more contraction we will have in the GDP.
The Fed seems to be operating in support of this theory. This makes us with money in the bank the bad guys, bucking the system, and being penalized for it by deflating the buying power of a "real" dollar.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So?
Thanks,
T </div></div>
Once again, a relatively easy question gets blown way out of proportion on the Hide. Everyone starts arguing about the sins/advantages of debt without really addressing the OP question.
I absolutely could not afford a USO at a full price/one time hit so I called them up and discussed options with them about payments (NOT using a credit card). They were extremely helpful considering my quoted build time was 4 months at the time. That allowed for "doable" monthly equal payments for me and I'm happy with my purchase. Give em a ring.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So?
Thanks,
T </div></div>
Once again, a relatively easy question gets blown way out of proportion on the Hide. Everyone starts arguing about the sins/advantages of debt without really addressing the OP question.
I absolutely could not afford a USO at a full price/one time hit so I called them up and discussed options with them about payments (NOT using a credit card). They were extremely helpful considering my quoted build time was 4 months at the time. That allowed for "doable" monthly equal payments for me and I'm happy with my purchase. Give em a ring.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The question is though, a solid company like yours, does it have real credit/capital availability issues at this time that are inhibiting its growth?</div></div>
I'm not really sure, to be honest - we're self funded and it hasn't come up yet.
Personally, I see the overhead in simply hiring employees to be more onerous, but it all just comes down to money eventually.
The harder it is for small business to actually do business, the fewer people make money.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The question is though, a solid company like yours, does it have real credit/capital availability issues at this time that are inhibiting its growth?</div></div>
I'm not really sure, to be honest - we're self funded and it hasn't come up yet.
Personally, I see the overhead in simply hiring employees to be more onerous, but it all just comes down to money eventually.
The harder it is for small business to actually do business, the fewer people make money.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So?
Thanks,
T </div></div>
Once again, a relatively easy question gets blown way out of proportion on the Hide. Everyone starts arguing about the sins/advantages of debt without really addressing the OP question.
I absolutely could not afford a USO at a full price/one time hit so I called them up and discussed options with them about payments (NOT using a credit card). They were extremely helpful considering my quoted build time was 4 months at the time. That allowed for "doable" monthly equal payments for me and I'm happy with my purchase. Give em a ring. </div></div>
Imagine that, calling and discussing directly as opposed to asking the internet peanut gallery how to approach a problem...You sir must be some sort of highly evolved being to attempt such a maneuver!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So?
Thanks,
T </div></div>
Once again, a relatively easy question gets blown way out of proportion on the Hide. Everyone starts arguing about the sins/advantages of debt without really addressing the OP question.
I absolutely could not afford a USO at a full price/one time hit so I called them up and discussed options with them about payments (NOT using a credit card). They were extremely helpful considering my quoted build time was 4 months at the time. That allowed for "doable" monthly equal payments for me and I'm happy with my purchase. Give em a ring. </div></div>
Imagine that, calling and discussing directly as opposed to asking the internet peanut gallery how to approach a problem...You sir must be some sort of highly evolved being to attempt such a maneuver!!
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The harder it is for small business to actually do business, the fewer people make money.</div></div>
AMEN BROTHER ZAK....imagine how many pages we could fill with chatter about this! I need to create a new forum, smallbusinessownershide.com, we could all share tips and tell horror stories.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The harder it is for small business to actually do business, the fewer people make money.</div></div>
AMEN BROTHER ZAK....imagine how many pages we could fill with chatter about this! I need to create a new forum, smallbusinessownershide.com, we could all share tips and tell horror stories.
Re: Who offers payment plans on glass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need to create a new forum, smallbusinessownershide.com, we could all share tips and tell horror stories.</div></div>If you're serious, I have the web hosting..
-z
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need to create a new forum, smallbusinessownershide.com, we could all share tips and tell horror stories.</div></div>If you're serious, I have the web hosting..
-z
Don't do it.
You may as well go to your local loan shark, he'll treat your better and give you better terms.
You may as well go to your local loan shark, he'll treat your better and give you better terms.
Yeah, someone here did the numbers on the Credova loan and it was something insane like 50%+ interest rate.
If you can’t pay for it in a month...don’t buy it.
Taking on debt on a scope is no bueno.
Taking on debt on a scope is no bueno.
