I don't understand why so many people pic a 30 cal for a long range rifle when they could have a 7mm.7mm will do anything a 30 cal will with less drop, less wind deflection and less recoil.300 win/weatherby/ultra mag?308? I'll take my 7 stw or a 7-08 anyday and shoot just as tiny of groups and kill anything just as quick.
- Thread starter 350 kid
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Re: Why 30 cal?
For one, 308 and 300 win mag are NATO cartridges so its a little easier to obtain ammo..
Ch
For one, 308 and 300 win mag are NATO cartridges so its a little easier to obtain ammo..
Ch
Re: Why 30 cal?
Massive variety of very good bullets. Tons of chamberings. If you don't mind recoil then 30's shooting the heavies are top contenders. Also, per case volume, 30's have better barrel life.
IE. 7-08 vs 308, 7mm mag vs 300 mag, 7WSM vs 300 wsm. You get the picture.
Massive variety of very good bullets. Tons of chamberings. If you don't mind recoil then 30's shooting the heavies are top contenders. Also, per case volume, 30's have better barrel life.
IE. 7-08 vs 308, 7mm mag vs 300 mag, 7WSM vs 300 wsm. You get the picture.
Re: Why 30 cal?
I have a 7mm Rem Mag, and a .308. I bought the .308 for the purpose of practice and punching paper only. Cheap (relatively), abundant components and low recoil, and good barrel life are the reasons I shoot the hell out of it and not the 7mm.
Btw, the 7mm was my first highpower, and not a good learner rifle.
I have a 7mm Rem Mag, and a .308. I bought the .308 for the purpose of practice and punching paper only. Cheap (relatively), abundant components and low recoil, and good barrel life are the reasons I shoot the hell out of it and not the 7mm.
Btw, the 7mm was my first highpower, and not a good learner rifle.
Re: Why 30 cal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 350 Kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why 30 cal?</div></div>
Why not...?
They perform well, they're common, ammo is plentiful, enexpensive, and ammo is easy to load. Information, ballistics, and load data are easy to get.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 350 Kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why 30 cal?</div></div>
Why not...?
They perform well, they're common, ammo is plentiful, enexpensive, and ammo is easy to load. Information, ballistics, and load data are easy to get.
Re: Why 30 cal?
OH YEAH! well my Daddy can kick your Daddie's ass any day!
OH YEAH! well my Daddy can kick your Daddie's ass any day!
Re: Why 30 cal?
Bottom line: Some dude in the military, a long time ago, had a hard on for 30 cal. Awesome BC bullets in varying diameters weren't figured out yet. 30 cal worked. The rest is history. In free countries where citizens may have guns....AND may have guns chambered in military chamberings, those cartridges are always most popular.
Today, I think a non-reloader should get a 308, because goid ammo is so prolific. For a reloader though, 30 cal is one of the worst choices because good performance means lots of recoil, and provides (in general) far more downrange energy than needed.
That all said, I love my 308. I hope the 284 I'm building treats me as well as the 308 has.
Bottom line: Some dude in the military, a long time ago, had a hard on for 30 cal. Awesome BC bullets in varying diameters weren't figured out yet. 30 cal worked. The rest is history. In free countries where citizens may have guns....AND may have guns chambered in military chamberings, those cartridges are always most popular.
Today, I think a non-reloader should get a 308, because goid ammo is so prolific. For a reloader though, 30 cal is one of the worst choices because good performance means lots of recoil, and provides (in general) far more downrange energy than needed.
That all said, I love my 308. I hope the 284 I'm building treats me as well as the 308 has.
Re: Why 30 cal?
.30.cal 110gr-225gr.
.284.cal 100gr-180gr.
I don't think any one makes anything heavier than a 180gr bullet for 7mm. I dont think so.
But thats not going to stop me from building a 280 or 280ai to have along with my 30-06
.30.cal 110gr-225gr.
.284.cal 100gr-180gr.
I don't think any one makes anything heavier than a 180gr bullet for 7mm. I dont think so.
But thats not going to stop me from building a 280 or 280ai to have along with my 30-06
Re: Why 30 cal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OH YEAH! well my Daddy can kick your Daddie's ass any day!</div></div>
no he caint....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OH YEAH! well my Daddy can kick your Daddie's ass any day!</div></div>
no he caint....
Re: Why 30 cal?
I am in the midst of collecting all my information for my first build and it was between the 300. win mag, and 7mm rem mag. i love both calibers. I have pretty much decided on the 300 cause i just like big calibers.
I am in the midst of collecting all my information for my first build and it was between the 300. win mag, and 7mm rem mag. i love both calibers. I have pretty much decided on the 300 cause i just like big calibers.
Re: Why 30 cal?
I went with a 308 because its cheap to shoot and will last a long time before it needs a new barrel. Every round has it's ups and downs.
I went with a 308 because its cheap to shoot and will last a long time before it needs a new barrel. Every round has it's ups and downs.
Re: Why 30 cal?
Build what you want and enjoy.
I started LR shooting with 308, but then I wanted to see what the 223 could do. Then, what about the 243? oh look, the 260 shoot way out there too!
LOL. Shoot 7-08's, or anything you like best. it's not the bullet, its the shooter. And reload, and remain loaded.
Where's my drink!?
Build what you want and enjoy.
I started LR shooting with 308, but then I wanted to see what the 223 could do. Then, what about the 243? oh look, the 260 shoot way out there too!
LOL. Shoot 7-08's, or anything you like best. it's not the bullet, its the shooter. And reload, and remain loaded.
Where's my drink!?
Re: Why 30 cal?
If you don't reload, the 308 is a very good choice due to a vast selection of quality match grade ammo. If you do reload its benifits soon get overshadowed (smaller bullets, better BCs, less recoil, less reload costs).
Kirk R
If you don't reload, the 308 is a very good choice due to a vast selection of quality match grade ammo. If you do reload its benifits soon get overshadowed (smaller bullets, better BCs, less recoil, less reload costs).
Kirk R
Re: Why 30 cal?
Why 30 cal?
My turn, because being a Nato round there are butt loads of different bullets to choose from.
I have a .308 for training and a 7mm08 for comps. I have tried a .223 but the wind has too much affect as compared to the others.
If a person was honest with themselves they would have a nice .22lr as a trainer. Remember, those big Magnums also take a toll on the shooter and are not good training rifles.
Every gunsafe should have at least one .308.
SScott
Why 30 cal?
My turn, because being a Nato round there are butt loads of different bullets to choose from.
I have a .308 for training and a 7mm08 for comps. I have tried a .223 but the wind has too much affect as compared to the others.
If a person was honest with themselves they would have a nice .22lr as a trainer. Remember, those big Magnums also take a toll on the shooter and are not good training rifles.
Every gunsafe should have at least one .308.
SScott
Re: Why 30 cal?
Don't they stock the 7mm-08 in the women and children section at most gun shops?
Kidding aside most of my shooting is 308 and 7x57
Don't they stock the 7mm-08 in the women and children section at most gun shops?
Kidding aside most of my shooting is 308 and 7x57
Re: Why 30 cal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chansen49</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For one, 308 and 300 win mag are NATO cartridges so its a little easier to obtain ammo..
Ch
</div></div>
This would be a primary reason. The price of brass and loaded cartridges is a major factor.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chansen49</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For one, 308 and 300 win mag are NATO cartridges so its a little easier to obtain ammo..
Ch
</div></div>
This would be a primary reason. The price of brass and loaded cartridges is a major factor.
Re: Why 30 cal?
AP and other various military projects while not ideal for a precision bolt gun are nice to have access to. cant do that with some oddball 6mm or 7mm
for 99 percent of shooting here on the east coast, a 308 will do everything you can ask of it
AP and other various military projects while not ideal for a precision bolt gun are nice to have access to. cant do that with some oddball 6mm or 7mm
for 99 percent of shooting here on the east coast, a 308 will do everything you can ask of it
Re: Why 30 cal?
Other than the 7mm offerings having slightly better ballistics, tell me what a 7mm can do that a .30cal can't? Recoil seems to be the biggest detractor followed by ballistics (probably vice versa). Keep in mind that some 7mm bullets have a harder time staying stabilized when going transonic for you longer range shooters based on elevation. Mountain guys should be good to go.. sea-level guys might get tumbling.
Other than the 7mm offerings having slightly better ballistics, tell me what a 7mm can do that a .30cal can't? Recoil seems to be the biggest detractor followed by ballistics (probably vice versa). Keep in mind that some 7mm bullets have a harder time staying stabilized when going transonic for you longer range shooters based on elevation. Mountain guys should be good to go.. sea-level guys might get tumbling.
Re: Why 30 cal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Other than the 7mm offerings having slightly better ballistics, tell me what a 7mm can do that a .30cal can't? Recoil seems to be the biggest detractor followed by ballistics (probably vice versa). Keep in mind that some 7mm bullets have a harder time staying stabilized when going transonic for you longer range shooters based on elevation. Mountain guys should be good to go.. sea-level guys might get tumbling. </div></div>
BC is very much related to the weight/length of a bullet. Any bullet with the same form factor will have same/similar BC. The difference is that it's TOTALLY REASONABLE to launch a 162gr bullet at 3000fps, and a big deal to launch a 220gr bullet at 3000fps. So, when comparing a 7mm loading with reasonable recoil to a 30cal with reasonable recoil, the ballistics of the 7mm are not "slightly better" than 30 cal. They are hand's-down, bitch-slap you across the face better.
Also, in repsonse to your statement about 7mm bullets behaving poorly in the transonic regime: This is not a product of, or specifically a 7mm thing, or even a small bullet thing. It's all about bullet design. I've seen bullets of ALL calibers perform both great, and like crap when going transonic. It's all about the design of the bullet, not its caliber, or its weight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Other than the 7mm offerings having slightly better ballistics, tell me what a 7mm can do that a .30cal can't? Recoil seems to be the biggest detractor followed by ballistics (probably vice versa). Keep in mind that some 7mm bullets have a harder time staying stabilized when going transonic for you longer range shooters based on elevation. Mountain guys should be good to go.. sea-level guys might get tumbling. </div></div>
BC is very much related to the weight/length of a bullet. Any bullet with the same form factor will have same/similar BC. The difference is that it's TOTALLY REASONABLE to launch a 162gr bullet at 3000fps, and a big deal to launch a 220gr bullet at 3000fps. So, when comparing a 7mm loading with reasonable recoil to a 30cal with reasonable recoil, the ballistics of the 7mm are not "slightly better" than 30 cal. They are hand's-down, bitch-slap you across the face better.
Also, in repsonse to your statement about 7mm bullets behaving poorly in the transonic regime: This is not a product of, or specifically a 7mm thing, or even a small bullet thing. It's all about bullet design. I've seen bullets of ALL calibers perform both great, and like crap when going transonic. It's all about the design of the bullet, not its caliber, or its weight.
Re: Why 30 cal?
I built a big 30 cal years ago not fully understanding how high the BC's were for 7mm back then.The next barrel was going to be 7mm but I changed my mind and I'm going to stay with the same chambering which is 30-375R.My standard load is with 240 SMK's .641-BC at 2925 fps.So pretty much the same ballistics as a 7 WSM.Recently I worked up a load with Bergers new 30 cal 230 grainers that have a real life BC of .72 and gained 75 fps in the process.At 3004 fps and a.72BC I actually have a 30 cal that'l shoot inside most 7mm's now.
The rifle weighs 21 lbs and has a good break so the recoil is pretty mild,also the rifle is comfortable to shoot all day if I wanted to.
I built a big 30 cal years ago not fully understanding how high the BC's were for 7mm back then.The next barrel was going to be 7mm but I changed my mind and I'm going to stay with the same chambering which is 30-375R.My standard load is with 240 SMK's .641-BC at 2925 fps.So pretty much the same ballistics as a 7 WSM.Recently I worked up a load with Bergers new 30 cal 230 grainers that have a real life BC of .72 and gained 75 fps in the process.At 3004 fps and a.72BC I actually have a 30 cal that'l shoot inside most 7mm's now.
The rifle weighs 21 lbs and has a good break so the recoil is pretty mild,also the rifle is comfortable to shoot all day if I wanted to.
Re: Why 30 cal?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I built a big 30 cal years ago not fully understanding how high the BC's were for 7mm back then.The next barrel was going to be 7mm but I changed my mind and I'm going to stay with the same chambering which is 30-375R.My standard load is with 240 SMK's .641-BC at 2925 fps.So pretty much the same ballistics as a 7 WSM.Recently I worked up a load with Bergers new 30 cal 230 grainers that have a real life BC of .72 and gained 75 fps in the process.At 3004 fps and a.72BC I actually have a 30 cal that'l shoot inside most 7mm's now.
The rifle weighs 21 lbs and has a good break so the recoil is pretty mild,also the rifle is comfortable to shoot all day if I wanted to. </div></div>
Exactly. The only "magic" to the 6, 6.5 and 7mm bullets is the light/moderate recoil (unbraked) when shooting the heavy, high BC bullets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I built a big 30 cal years ago not fully understanding how high the BC's were for 7mm back then.The next barrel was going to be 7mm but I changed my mind and I'm going to stay with the same chambering which is 30-375R.My standard load is with 240 SMK's .641-BC at 2925 fps.So pretty much the same ballistics as a 7 WSM.Recently I worked up a load with Bergers new 30 cal 230 grainers that have a real life BC of .72 and gained 75 fps in the process.At 3004 fps and a.72BC I actually have a 30 cal that'l shoot inside most 7mm's now.
The rifle weighs 21 lbs and has a good break so the recoil is pretty mild,also the rifle is comfortable to shoot all day if I wanted to. </div></div>
Exactly. The only "magic" to the 6, 6.5 and 7mm bullets is the light/moderate recoil (unbraked) when shooting the heavy, high BC bullets.
Re: Why 30 cal?
I like it. I also like Camaros and Mustangs.
Sure, everyone needs to drive a corvette "just to see whats out there", but in the end, it is the driver that matters.
I can drive a 308 just like I can drive a 223, 300wm, 7-08 and anything else mentioned. It does what I want, great match ammo available, lots of bullet support.
I like it. I also like Camaros and Mustangs.
Sure, everyone needs to drive a corvette "just to see whats out there", but in the end, it is the driver that matters.
I can drive a 308 just like I can drive a 223, 300wm, 7-08 and anything else mentioned. It does what I want, great match ammo available, lots of bullet support.
Re: Why 30 cal?
Wow, been a bit since a challenge to the .30 cal came around. I call it a challenge, but its really not. It has been proven to no end that the .30 caliber is not the "ultimate" in choices. There are so many other choices out there that rival any if not all .30 chamberings. Everything from the .243 to the .338 has some chambering that will do the same or better. In the end it will all come to preference.
What are you looking to do? How long of a barrel life you looking at? What type of ammo you gonna use? Reload or buy factory?
"Better" is a matter of opinion. I am sure there is someone who will say the .223/.243 (AI incl)/.260rem/.6.5CM/6.5 x47L (ect.) is a better round. With the exception of the .338 to the.50BMG, I have yet to see a cartridge be able to do something that a person cant do with a .30 caliber bullet. Whatever the choice is, the choice will boil down to what the shooter wants.
Wow, been a bit since a challenge to the .30 cal came around. I call it a challenge, but its really not. It has been proven to no end that the .30 caliber is not the "ultimate" in choices. There are so many other choices out there that rival any if not all .30 chamberings. Everything from the .243 to the .338 has some chambering that will do the same or better. In the end it will all come to preference.
What are you looking to do? How long of a barrel life you looking at? What type of ammo you gonna use? Reload or buy factory?
"Better" is a matter of opinion. I am sure there is someone who will say the .223/.243 (AI incl)/.260rem/.6.5CM/6.5 x47L (ect.) is a better round. With the exception of the .338 to the.50BMG, I have yet to see a cartridge be able to do something that a person cant do with a .30 caliber bullet. Whatever the choice is, the choice will boil down to what the shooter wants.
Re: Why 30 cal?
If the military and police adopt it the civilian market will follow and so will the manufactures to supply the civilian market. if the military had adopted 7mm-08 there would be more of those than anything else, as stated before it is the driver that makes it work. you can't argue with the range of availability of guns, ammo, components etc..
Personally the 6.5 bullets work for me.
If the military and police adopt it the civilian market will follow and so will the manufactures to supply the civilian market. if the military had adopted 7mm-08 there would be more of those than anything else, as stated before it is the driver that makes it work. you can't argue with the range of availability of guns, ammo, components etc..
Personally the 6.5 bullets work for me.
Re: Why 30 cal?
For me, the 6.5mm and 7mm chamberings are good LR platforms, allowing good BC's to be driven with less energy. Right now my Longer Range chamberings are .260 Rem and .280 Rem.
Actually, I like 30 cal for the shorter distances. There's a .30BR project for FV200 on the plate for this Winter (rebarreling my current Savage .260 Ghost Dancer), and I just acquired a Savage 10FCM Scout in 7.62x39, which has multiple potentials as an economical youth trainer, with a possibility for deer and Zombies on the side. I removed the Scout mount and replaced it with conventional Weaver mounts and a Tasco 2.5-10X42.
I have little intention of shooting either beyond 300yd. The Ghost Dacer's .260 rle is being taken over by a Savage 10 Predator Hunter Max I .260.
Both new rifles have Accu-Trigger and Accu-Stock, and will be my introduction to both new Savage features.
The looks and feel are giving good impressions, but the real test comes when the current Biblical rains cease. Anybody got design drawings for an Ark?
Greg
For me, the 6.5mm and 7mm chamberings are good LR platforms, allowing good BC's to be driven with less energy. Right now my Longer Range chamberings are .260 Rem and .280 Rem.
Actually, I like 30 cal for the shorter distances. There's a .30BR project for FV200 on the plate for this Winter (rebarreling my current Savage .260 Ghost Dancer), and I just acquired a Savage 10FCM Scout in 7.62x39, which has multiple potentials as an economical youth trainer, with a possibility for deer and Zombies on the side. I removed the Scout mount and replaced it with conventional Weaver mounts and a Tasco 2.5-10X42.
I have little intention of shooting either beyond 300yd. The Ghost Dacer's .260 rle is being taken over by a Savage 10 Predator Hunter Max I .260.
Both new rifles have Accu-Trigger and Accu-Stock, and will be my introduction to both new Savage features.
The looks and feel are giving good impressions, but the real test comes when the current Biblical rains cease. Anybody got design drawings for an Ark?
Greg
Re: Why 30 cal?
also, SMKs come in 240gr for .30 caliber.
also, SMKs come in 240gr for .30 caliber.
Re: Why 30 cal?
There is no way a 7mm can deliver the goods at long range like a .30 cal. My
stw wallops our 1000 yard plate pretty good. My friends 300 rum hammers it.
At 800 I can hear my hits through regular earmuffs. His punches holes.( Just 3/8
bridge steel plates.) I've shot plenty of elk and seen plenty more go down. I stop
at 750 with the stw. A 300 winmag is good to 900 Pretty safely. Just a lot more
bullet traveling at the same speed at long ranges.
There is no way a 7mm can deliver the goods at long range like a .30 cal. My
stw wallops our 1000 yard plate pretty good. My friends 300 rum hammers it.
At 800 I can hear my hits through regular earmuffs. His punches holes.( Just 3/8
bridge steel plates.) I've shot plenty of elk and seen plenty more go down. I stop
at 750 with the stw. A 300 winmag is good to 900 Pretty safely. Just a lot more
bullet traveling at the same speed at long ranges.
