Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
This:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=487924
I also have the .308 holder for it.
This:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=487924
I also have the .308 holder for it.
- Thread starter callen3615
- Start date
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys, I have been reloading for about a year now and I have noticed a growing problem. </div></div>
I have not read the hole thread, sorry.
Just an FYI,...
Do you clean/lube your weapons where you reload? If you use WD40 an other chem's and they get anywhere near a primer or powder, you'll have issues that will haunt you down the road. Once powder or primers are contaminated with some oils or solvents, their done being reliable/trust worthy. </div></div>
+1!
That's the number one reason for primers not firing. Oil/crud in them or not cleaning the flash hole. I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of.
I suggest finding a used press and dies and start reloading with a single stage and watch where your primers go before loading them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys, I have been reloading for about a year now and I have noticed a growing problem. </div></div>
I have not read the hole thread, sorry.
Just an FYI,...
Do you clean/lube your weapons where you reload? If you use WD40 an other chem's and they get anywhere near a primer or powder, you'll have issues that will haunt you down the road. Once powder or primers are contaminated with some oils or solvents, their done being reliable/trust worthy. </div></div>
+1!
That's the number one reason for primers not firing. Oil/crud in them or not cleaning the flash hole. I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of.
I suggest finding a used press and dies and start reloading with a single stage and watch where your primers go before loading them.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's the inspiration for the measuring tool I made....it's in stock at Sinclair.
Hornady HK-66 Kit........ </div></div>
Cool, I might have to talk my machining instructor to help me make some on the lathe.
So do I need anything else besides the products listed above?
I also have a wilson case trimmer. </div></div>
Well hell, if you've access to a machine shop with a lathe and a mill it's a no brainer. While you are at it make it like I made mine: universal to measure case shoulder datum to case head on several cartrides. I will provide you with the dimensions for what I've got here which will measure .223,.243,.243AI,30-30,30-06, ect., in case you end up going that far with this reloading thing?
How are you measuring your powder charges?
You'll do ok with a set of dippers if that's what you already have, or borrow a scale and make your own dippers (I can give you some pointers there), or just buy a scale.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's the inspiration for the measuring tool I made....it's in stock at Sinclair.
Hornady HK-66 Kit........ </div></div>
Cool, I might have to talk my machining instructor to help me make some on the lathe.
So do I need anything else besides the products listed above?
I also have a wilson case trimmer. </div></div>
Well hell, if you've access to a machine shop with a lathe and a mill it's a no brainer. While you are at it make it like I made mine: universal to measure case shoulder datum to case head on several cartrides. I will provide you with the dimensions for what I've got here which will measure .223,.243,.243AI,30-30,30-06, ect., in case you end up going that far with this reloading thing?
How are you measuring your powder charges?
You'll do ok with a set of dippers if that's what you already have, or borrow a scale and make your own dippers (I can give you some pointers there), or just buy a scale.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1!
That's the number one reason for primers not firing. Oil/crud in them or not cleaning the flash hole.</div></div>
Okay, let's put this primer thing to bed.
You've already said you are not contaminating the primer with oil/lube, or anything. You're sure it's not the primers themselves being "bad".
You did say you tumble...the only thing left is maybe the flash holes are plugged with media.
What kind of tumbling media are you using?, how are you removing it from inside of the case?, and are you making sure the flashole/primer pockets are clear of tumbling media?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1!
That's the number one reason for primers not firing. Oil/crud in them or not cleaning the flash hole.</div></div>
Okay, let's put this primer thing to bed.
You've already said you are not contaminating the primer with oil/lube, or anything. You're sure it's not the primers themselves being "bad".
You did say you tumble...the only thing left is maybe the flash holes are plugged with media.
What kind of tumbling media are you using?, how are you removing it from inside of the case?, and are you making sure the flashole/primer pockets are clear of tumbling media?
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1!
That's the number one reason for primers not firing. Oil/crud in them or not cleaning the flash hole.</div></div>
Okay, let's put this primer thing to bed.
You've already said you are not contaminating the primer with oil/lube, or anything. You're sure it's not the primers themselves being "bad".
You did say you tumble...the only thing left is maybe the flash holes are plugged with media.
What kind of tumbling media are you using?, how are you removing it from inside of the case?, and are you making sure the flashole/primer pockets are clear of tumbling media?
</div></div>
I check every single flash hole and case before I prime them. I smack the case bottoms against each other to remove media inside them. But I had this primer problem before I started tumbling.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1!
That's the number one reason for primers not firing. Oil/crud in them or not cleaning the flash hole.</div></div>
Okay, let's put this primer thing to bed.
You've already said you are not contaminating the primer with oil/lube, or anything. You're sure it's not the primers themselves being "bad".
You did say you tumble...the only thing left is maybe the flash holes are plugged with media.
What kind of tumbling media are you using?, how are you removing it from inside of the case?, and are you making sure the flashole/primer pockets are clear of tumbling media?
</div></div>
I check every single flash hole and case before I prime them. I smack the case bottoms against each other to remove media inside them. But I had this primer problem before I started tumbling.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Tripwire said:
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
The Lee Classic can accidentally bump the shoulders back if, when neck sizing, you smash in the brass below the edge of the die.
(1) Make sure the top part of the die is screwed in tight (the end with the hole where you drop the bullet through at the end).
(2) After inserting the brass into the die, gently tap the brass into place, but NOT COMPLETELY. Then place a piece of wood over the die and tap the rest into place.
I think you might be "smashing" the brass TOO HARD, causing the rubber mallet to dig into the edge of the die and thus pushing the brass too far into the die. That's what could cause an inadvertent shoulder bump.
Won't hurt to do some reading either.
The Lee Classic can accidentally bump the shoulders back if, when neck sizing, you smash in the brass below the edge of the die.
(1) Make sure the top part of the die is screwed in tight (the end with the hole where you drop the bullet through at the end).
(2) After inserting the brass into the die, gently tap the brass into place, but NOT COMPLETELY. Then place a piece of wood over the die and tap the rest into place.
I think you might be "smashing" the brass TOO HARD, causing the rubber mallet to dig into the edge of the die and thus pushing the brass too far into the die. That's what could cause an inadvertent shoulder bump.
Won't hurt to do some reading either.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
To buy Blackhills loaded with 175 Sierras, your price is 500/$722 or $1.44 each. To load your own brass they same round will be 46 cents each with good shopping. Try to find components with out paying shipping, promotion or local. Buying in bulk brings the price down, so does buying with friends you can share hazmat or shipping costs. Basically, you can load 1000 match rounds for $460 by reusing your brass. To buy a 1000 is $1444. That's $984 that can go into equipment over a year. Even if you look at Winchester white box at 13.00 for 20 that's 65 cents a round and $649.50 a 1000 and $450 to make 1000 loaded with 150's. So depending on your shooting that's a $200 savings.
I'm not going to say Lee is bad stuff, I use a Lee Loadmaster for pistol, I would say to look at the RCBS Rockchuker kit for $299. I say that because some of the Lee acssories are not made as well as the RCBS ones are. I have not used the Lee press but I have used the Rockchucker Kit since it was my first press and kit. The only difference between the kit offered now and the kit I bought was mine had the case trimmer ($99.99)and an inertial bullet puller ($11.99)in it also. The Lee Loadmaster is an aluminum press, so I can say it'll hold up but would look hard at the quality of the other parts of the kit.
To buy Blackhills loaded with 175 Sierras, your price is 500/$722 or $1.44 each. To load your own brass they same round will be 46 cents each with good shopping. Try to find components with out paying shipping, promotion or local. Buying in bulk brings the price down, so does buying with friends you can share hazmat or shipping costs. Basically, you can load 1000 match rounds for $460 by reusing your brass. To buy a 1000 is $1444. That's $984 that can go into equipment over a year. Even if you look at Winchester white box at 13.00 for 20 that's 65 cents a round and $649.50 a 1000 and $450 to make 1000 loaded with 150's. So depending on your shooting that's a $200 savings.
I'm not going to say Lee is bad stuff, I use a Lee Loadmaster for pistol, I would say to look at the RCBS Rockchuker kit for $299. I say that because some of the Lee acssories are not made as well as the RCBS ones are. I have not used the Lee press but I have used the Rockchucker Kit since it was my first press and kit. The only difference between the kit offered now and the kit I bought was mine had the case trimmer ($99.99)and an inertial bullet puller ($11.99)in it also. The Lee Loadmaster is an aluminum press, so I can say it'll hold up but would look hard at the quality of the other parts of the kit.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
Good catch. Save the 99.99 addition to RCBS.
Good catch. Save the 99.99 addition to RCBS.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
Thanks for the help guys. Dont be surprised if you see a similar thread in a week or two!
Thanks for the help guys. Dont be surprised if you see a similar thread in a week or two!
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1!
That's the number one reason for primers not firing. Oil/crud in them or not cleaning the flash hole.</div></div>
Okay, let's put this primer thing to bed.
You've already said you are not contaminating the primer with oil/lube, or anything. You're sure it's not the primers themselves being "bad".
You did say you tumble...the only thing left is maybe the flash holes are plugged with media.
What kind of tumbling media are you using?, how are you removing it from inside of the case?, and are you making sure the flashole/primer pockets are clear of tumbling media?
</div></div>
Note I also said: "I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of."
So, here's the quick and short way to put the primer issue to bed. What do the dents in the primer look like? If they are very shallow then no it isn't a primer issue. But if there is much of a dent at all then it IS a primer issue.
FWIW, there have been primer recalls by CCI and FED. At the rate they've been produced over the last few years I wouldn't be surprised if all the primer makers have a few bad batches out there.
BigMahi,
Interesting note on how these can run the case too deep. I will look for that in the future.
I'm still thinking, like troubleshooting any problem, you need to isolate each issue one at a time. And of course linear if possible. Meaning going down the line so that an earlier issue can't pop back up.
<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:
Another possibility here, what rifle are you using? When is the last time you took the bolt apart and cleaned it?</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1!
That's the number one reason for primers not firing. Oil/crud in them or not cleaning the flash hole.</div></div>
Okay, let's put this primer thing to bed.
You've already said you are not contaminating the primer with oil/lube, or anything. You're sure it's not the primers themselves being "bad".
You did say you tumble...the only thing left is maybe the flash holes are plugged with media.
What kind of tumbling media are you using?, how are you removing it from inside of the case?, and are you making sure the flashole/primer pockets are clear of tumbling media?
</div></div>
Note I also said: "I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of."
So, here's the quick and short way to put the primer issue to bed. What do the dents in the primer look like? If they are very shallow then no it isn't a primer issue. But if there is much of a dent at all then it IS a primer issue.
FWIW, there have been primer recalls by CCI and FED. At the rate they've been produced over the last few years I wouldn't be surprised if all the primer makers have a few bad batches out there.
BigMahi,
Interesting note on how these can run the case too deep. I will look for that in the future.
I'm still thinking, like troubleshooting any problem, you need to isolate each issue one at a time. And of course linear if possible. Meaning going down the line so that an earlier issue can't pop back up.
<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:
Another possibility here, what rifle are you using? When is the last time you took the bolt apart and cleaned it?</span>
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
Sandwarrior.....1+
Sandwarrior.....1+
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Note I also said: "I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of."</div></div>
Note the OP also posted in his other thread that he was able to beat a case into his lee classic a full 1/16" deeper than it was supposed to be, and with a rubber fucking hammer.....so, sorry, you're wrong in your speculation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:
Another possibility here, what rifle are you using? When is the last time you took the bolt apart and cleaned it?</span> </div></div>
If you actually read this thread you'd know what rifle; and you'd know that factory ammo wasn't having this problem....thus eliminating the firing pin/spring/bolt issue.
Yeah, big plus one is right.........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Note I also said: "I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of."</div></div>
Note the OP also posted in his other thread that he was able to beat a case into his lee classic a full 1/16" deeper than it was supposed to be, and with a rubber fucking hammer.....so, sorry, you're wrong in your speculation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:
Another possibility here, what rifle are you using? When is the last time you took the bolt apart and cleaned it?</span> </div></div>
If you actually read this thread you'd know what rifle; and you'd know that factory ammo wasn't having this problem....thus eliminating the firing pin/spring/bolt issue.
Yeah, big plus one is right.........
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
i didnt read every post so someone might have already answered this. i had the same problem when i switched AR's. Turns out the brass that was fire formed to my old one, had to much head spacing not allowing the bolt to close fully and Failed to fire. I bout the hornady head space gauges for like $30. Measured brass that did fire and one that didnt and there was .005 difference in the two. I then properly adjusting my resizing die. this then fixed my problem. My dad also had this same issure with a bolt action .243 hope this helps
i didnt read every post so someone might have already answered this. i had the same problem when i switched AR's. Turns out the brass that was fire formed to my old one, had to much head spacing not allowing the bolt to close fully and Failed to fire. I bout the hornady head space gauges for like $30. Measured brass that did fire and one that didnt and there was .005 difference in the two. I then properly adjusting my resizing die. this then fixed my problem. My dad also had this same issure with a bolt action .243 hope this helps
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Note I also said: "I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of."</div></div>
Note the OP also posted in his other thread that he was able to beat a case into his lee classic a full 1/16" deeper than it was supposed to be, and with a rubber fucking hammer.....so, sorry, you're wrong in your speculation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:
Another possibility here, what rifle are you using? When is the last time you took the bolt apart and cleaned it?</span> </div></div>
If you actually read this thread you'd know what rifle; and you'd know that factory ammo wasn't having this problem....thus eliminating the firing pin/spring/bolt issue.
Yeah, big plus one is right.........</div></div>
So he's pounded in every other case 1/16th of an inch too deep? Yeah I did read the some of this thread. But, like troubleshooting any problem, you have to have positive elimination of each factor. I haven't seen anything here that gives positive elimination of the primers. So, that's why I asked what rifle he had and what the status of the bolt was. My question alludes to to primer dents. That's positive elimination of the primers. Does it dent it, or does it not. And no, I didn't take the time to read his other thread. I just wanted one simple question answered. Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
So, Tripwire, this is your cookie and you can crumble it any way you like. I'm amazed at people who buy the cheapest crap out there then can't understand why it doesn't work. And, now he's a safety hazard on the range with 50% duds.
-I'm out, good luck
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Note I also said: "I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of."</div></div>
Note the OP also posted in his other thread that he was able to beat a case into his lee classic a full 1/16" deeper than it was supposed to be, and with a rubber fucking hammer.....so, sorry, you're wrong in your speculation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:
Another possibility here, what rifle are you using? When is the last time you took the bolt apart and cleaned it?</span> </div></div>
If you actually read this thread you'd know what rifle; and you'd know that factory ammo wasn't having this problem....thus eliminating the firing pin/spring/bolt issue.
Yeah, big plus one is right.........</div></div>
So he's pounded in every other case 1/16th of an inch too deep? Yeah I did read the some of this thread. But, like troubleshooting any problem, you have to have positive elimination of each factor. I haven't seen anything here that gives positive elimination of the primers. So, that's why I asked what rifle he had and what the status of the bolt was. My question alludes to to primer dents. That's positive elimination of the primers. Does it dent it, or does it not. And no, I didn't take the time to read his other thread. I just wanted one simple question answered. Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
So, Tripwire, this is your cookie and you can crumble it any way you like. I'm amazed at people who buy the cheapest crap out there then can't understand why it doesn't work. And, now he's a safety hazard on the range with 50% duds.
-I'm out, good luck
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
</div></div>
Considering I've seen Tripwire's reloading set-up, and equipment he's made to accomplish the same, as well as run loads he's done up for his rifles, the above is positively laughable.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
</div></div>
Considering I've seen Tripwire's reloading set-up, and equipment he's made to accomplish the same, as well as run loads he's done up for his rifles, the above is positively laughable.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Note I also said: "I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of."</div></div>
Note the OP also posted in his other thread that he was able to beat a case into his lee classic a full 1/16" deeper than it was supposed to be, and with a rubber fucking hammer.....so, sorry, you're wrong in your speculation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:
Another possibility here, what rifle are you using? When is the last time you took the bolt apart and cleaned it?</span> </div></div>
If you actually read this thread you'd know what rifle; and you'd know that factory ammo wasn't having this problem....thus eliminating the firing pin/spring/bolt issue.
Yeah, big plus one is right.........</div></div>
So he's pounded in every other case 1/16th of an inch too deep? Yeah I did read the some of this thread. But, like troubleshooting any problem, you have to have positive elimination of each factor. I haven't seen anything here that gives positive elimination of the primers. So, that's why I asked what rifle he had and what the status of the bolt was. My question alludes to to primer dents. That's positive elimination of the primers. Does it dent it, or does it not. And no, I didn't take the time to read his other thread. I just wanted one simple question answered. Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
So, Tripwire, this is your cookie and you can crumble it any way you like. I'm amazed at people who buy the cheapest crap out there then can't understand why it doesn't work. And, now he's a safety hazard on the range with 50% duds.
-I'm out, good luck </div></div>
Well you dont have to worry about me on a range because there isnt one within 2 hours of me.
And as far as primers go, Ill get some pics up here in a sec of the primers that didnt go off.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Note I also said: "I doubt you have a headspace problem loading the way you are. More than likely if you had a headspace problem it would be too long not short. Bumping the shoulder back takes a lot more force than a hand primer system like the Lee Classic is capable of."</div></div>
Note the OP also posted in his other thread that he was able to beat a case into his lee classic a full 1/16" deeper than it was supposed to be, and with a rubber fucking hammer.....so, sorry, you're wrong in your speculation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:
Another possibility here, what rifle are you using? When is the last time you took the bolt apart and cleaned it?</span> </div></div>
If you actually read this thread you'd know what rifle; and you'd know that factory ammo wasn't having this problem....thus eliminating the firing pin/spring/bolt issue.
Yeah, big plus one is right.........</div></div>
So he's pounded in every other case 1/16th of an inch too deep? Yeah I did read the some of this thread. But, like troubleshooting any problem, you have to have positive elimination of each factor. I haven't seen anything here that gives positive elimination of the primers. So, that's why I asked what rifle he had and what the status of the bolt was. My question alludes to to primer dents. That's positive elimination of the primers. Does it dent it, or does it not. And no, I didn't take the time to read his other thread. I just wanted one simple question answered. Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
So, Tripwire, this is your cookie and you can crumble it any way you like. I'm amazed at people who buy the cheapest crap out there then can't understand why it doesn't work. And, now he's a safety hazard on the range with 50% duds.
-I'm out, good luck </div></div>
Well you dont have to worry about me on a range because there isnt one within 2 hours of me.
And as far as primers go, Ill get some pics up here in a sec of the primers that didnt go off.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
This one went "click"
This one went "click"
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
This....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yeah I did read the <span style="text-decoration: underline">some</span> of this thread.
</div></div>
And...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And no, I didn't take the time to read his other thread.
</div></div>
Yeilds...??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I haven't seen anything here that gives........
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just wanted one simple question answered. Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
</div></div>
Primers were discussed, I even recall him saying a second smack on 'em wouldn't make 'em fire either. Firing pins were discussed, I even recall him saying factory ammo was no problem. It's entirely possible to oversize a case just enough to not allow ignition and still show what appears to be a decent strike....in fact, I've seen it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So, Tripwire, this is your cookie and you can crumble it any way you like. I'm amazed at people who buy the cheapest crap out there then can't understand why it doesn't work. And, now he's a safety hazard on the range with 50% duds.
</div></div>
Isn't my cookie, just trying to help the guy out, take it or leave it. Lee isn't my choice for anything, but he's on a budget and top shelf shit seems to be out of the question. Never been there/done that yourself, I'm assuming?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
-I'm out, good luck
</div></div>
Only move you had friend......
This....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yeah I did read the <span style="text-decoration: underline">some</span> of this thread.
</div></div>
And...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And no, I didn't take the time to read his other thread.
</div></div>
Yeilds...??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I haven't seen anything here that gives........
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just wanted one simple question answered. Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
</div></div>
Primers were discussed, I even recall him saying a second smack on 'em wouldn't make 'em fire either. Firing pins were discussed, I even recall him saying factory ammo was no problem. It's entirely possible to oversize a case just enough to not allow ignition and still show what appears to be a decent strike....in fact, I've seen it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So, Tripwire, this is your cookie and you can crumble it any way you like. I'm amazed at people who buy the cheapest crap out there then can't understand why it doesn't work. And, now he's a safety hazard on the range with 50% duds.
</div></div>
Isn't my cookie, just trying to help the guy out, take it or leave it. Lee isn't my choice for anything, but he's on a budget and top shelf shit seems to be out of the question. Never been there/done that yourself, I'm assuming?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
-I'm out, good luck
</div></div>
Only move you had friend......
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
Don't know if it's the angle, but that primer appears slanted and crushed a bit.
As stated, get the basic Lee press, sizer and seating die and the Lee hand prime tool with appropriate shell holder and you will be out less than 100 and a lot happier.
Don't know if it's the angle, but that primer appears slanted and crushed a bit.
As stated, get the basic Lee press, sizer and seating die and the Lee hand prime tool with appropriate shell holder and you will be out less than 100 and a lot happier.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
Obvious, I don't have a precise answer to your F-T-F primers but I do for part of your problem.
Look at the instructions for your Lee Loader Kit, note that step #2 states to drive the case in until it's flush with the die. It matters not if you use a rubber or plastic hammer but it does matter that you stop when the case is fully inserted, NOT 1/16th below flush.
Now, those cases you've massively over "neck sized" to the point of driving the shoulders back should probably be tossed. You could have a head seperation if one should ever actually go off.
Safe reloading requires that we read and follow directions dude.
Obvious, I don't have a precise answer to your F-T-F primers but I do for part of your problem.
Look at the instructions for your Lee Loader Kit, note that step #2 states to drive the case in until it's flush with the die. It matters not if you use a rubber or plastic hammer but it does matter that you stop when the case is fully inserted, NOT 1/16th below flush.
Now, those cases you've massively over "neck sized" to the point of driving the shoulders back should probably be tossed. You could have a head seperation if one should ever actually go off.
Safe reloading requires that we read and follow directions dude.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obvious, I don't have a precise answer to your F-T-F primers but I do for part of your problem.
Look at the instructions for your Lee Loader Kit, note that step #2 states to drive the case in until it's flush with the die. It matters not if you use a rubber or plastic hammer but it does matter that you stop when the case is fully inserted, NOT 1/16th below flush.
Now, those cases you've massively over "neck sized" to the point of driving the shoulders back should probably be tossed. You could have a head seperation if one should ever actually go off.
Safe reloading requires that we read and follow directions dude. </div></div>
Hate to say it, but finally something Furrball and I seem to agree on.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obvious, I don't have a precise answer to your F-T-F primers but I do for part of your problem.
Look at the instructions for your Lee Loader Kit, note that step #2 states to drive the case in until it's flush with the die. It matters not if you use a rubber or plastic hammer but it does matter that you stop when the case is fully inserted, NOT 1/16th below flush.
Now, those cases you've massively over "neck sized" to the point of driving the shoulders back should probably be tossed. You could have a head seperation if one should ever actually go off.
Safe reloading requires that we read and follow directions dude. </div></div>
Hate to say it, but finally something Furrball and I seem to agree on.....
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yeah I did read the <span style="text-decoration: underline">some</span> of this thread.
</div></div>
And...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And no, I didn't take the time to read his other thread.
</div></div>
Yeilds...??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I haven't seen anything here that gives........
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just wanted one simple question answered. Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
</div></div>
Primers were discussed, I even recall him saying a second smack on 'em wouldn't make 'em fire either. Firing pins were discussed, I even recall him saying factory ammo was no problem. It's entirely possible to oversize a case just enough to not allow ignition and still show what appears to be a decent strike....in fact, I've seen it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So, Tripwire, this is your cookie and you can crumble it any way you like. I'm amazed at people who buy the cheapest crap out there then can't understand why it doesn't work. And, now he's a safety hazard on the range with 50% duds.
</div></div>
Isn't my cookie, just trying to help the guy out, take it or leave it. Lee isn't my choice for anything, but he's on a budget and top shelf shit seems to be out of the question. Never been there/done that yourself, I'm assuming?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
-I'm out, good luck
</div></div>
Only move you had friend......
</div></div>
Look at the dents! Just because you have equipment doesn't mean you have knowledge.
Those dents should have fired the primer which should have made the load go off.
Last time I'll say anything on this thread. Get yourself another tray of primers, new from a store you trust and load a few new cases and see what the results are. It's primers not headspace. If the headspace was that bad you could hear the case rattling in the chamber. Seriously.
Tripwire,
One of the best ways to chase your tail in circles when troubleshooting is to listen to all the other issues/stories involved. Start where you know, and isolate each potential issue. That's what I did. I asked the questions I did to find out, step by step where to go. That's what I know about problem solving and troubleshooting. I'm a commercial aircraft mechanic and have been an avid reloader for 30 years.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yeah I did read the <span style="text-decoration: underline">some</span> of this thread.
</div></div>
And...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And no, I didn't take the time to read his other thread.
</div></div>
Yeilds...??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I haven't seen anything here that gives........
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I just wanted one simple question answered. Seems if you can't do that IMO you're not qualified to reload either.
</div></div>
Primers were discussed, I even recall him saying a second smack on 'em wouldn't make 'em fire either. Firing pins were discussed, I even recall him saying factory ammo was no problem. It's entirely possible to oversize a case just enough to not allow ignition and still show what appears to be a decent strike....in fact, I've seen it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So, Tripwire, this is your cookie and you can crumble it any way you like. I'm amazed at people who buy the cheapest crap out there then can't understand why it doesn't work. And, now he's a safety hazard on the range with 50% duds.
</div></div>
Isn't my cookie, just trying to help the guy out, take it or leave it. Lee isn't my choice for anything, but he's on a budget and top shelf shit seems to be out of the question. Never been there/done that yourself, I'm assuming?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
-I'm out, good luck
</div></div>
Only move you had friend......
</div></div>
Look at the dents! Just because you have equipment doesn't mean you have knowledge.
Those dents should have fired the primer which should have made the load go off.
Last time I'll say anything on this thread. Get yourself another tray of primers, new from a store you trust and load a few new cases and see what the results are. It's primers not headspace. If the headspace was that bad you could hear the case rattling in the chamber. Seriously.
Tripwire,
One of the best ways to chase your tail in circles when troubleshooting is to listen to all the other issues/stories involved. Start where you know, and isolate each potential issue. That's what I did. I asked the questions I did to find out, step by step where to go. That's what I know about problem solving and troubleshooting. I'm a commercial aircraft mechanic and have been an avid reloader for 30 years.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
Itdoes look like their is primer deformation. Your set up is used succesfully on ranges all over but I haven't used one. I would look at the directions for the press and try again, but that doesn't mean not to build up a bench setup.
Itdoes look like their is primer deformation. Your set up is used succesfully on ranges all over but I haven't used one. I would look at the directions for the press and try again, but that doesn't mean not to build up a bench setup.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
To qoute the Lee manual, second edition, chapter 2, page 49, third sentence of paragraph 1 "If pushed in too far, the priming compound can be crushed, which will result in a misfire or hang fire."
To qoute the Lee manual, second edition, chapter 2, page 49, third sentence of paragraph 1 "If pushed in too far, the priming compound can be crushed, which will result in a misfire or hang fire."
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
Do those primers look too deep? Hard to tell from those photos. A Lee priming tool is only about $25.
Do those primers look too deep? Hard to tell from those photos. A Lee priming tool is only about $25.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Itdoes look like their is primer deformation. Your set up is used succesfully on ranges all over but I haven't used one. I would look at the directions for the press and try again, but that doesn't mean not to build up a bench setup. </div></div>
I had my suspicions. Ive got a single stage on the way regardless.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Itdoes look like their is primer deformation. Your set up is used succesfully on ranges all over but I haven't used one. I would look at the directions for the press and try again, but that doesn't mean not to build up a bench setup. </div></div>
I had my suspicions. Ive got a single stage on the way regardless.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obvious, I don't have a precise answer to your F-T-F primers but I do for part of your problem.
Look at the instructions for your Lee Loader Kit, note that step #2 states to drive the case in until it's flush with the die. It matters not if you use a rubber or plastic hammer but it does matter that you stop when the case is fully inserted, NOT 1/16th below flush.
Now, those cases you've massively over "neck sized" to the point of driving the shoulders back should probably be tossed. You could have a head seperation if one should ever actually go off.
Safe reloading requires that we read and follow directions dude. </div></div>
Ok. I just cut a reloaded piece of 3x reloaded remington brass in half to see if I had some separation. I cant see any at all. Im beginning to suspect the priming method.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obvious, I don't have a precise answer to your F-T-F primers but I do for part of your problem.
Look at the instructions for your Lee Loader Kit, note that step #2 states to drive the case in until it's flush with the die. It matters not if you use a rubber or plastic hammer but it does matter that you stop when the case is fully inserted, NOT 1/16th below flush.
Now, those cases you've massively over "neck sized" to the point of driving the shoulders back should probably be tossed. You could have a head seperation if one should ever actually go off.
Safe reloading requires that we read and follow directions dude. </div></div>
Ok. I just cut a reloaded piece of 3x reloaded remington brass in half to see if I had some separation. I cant see any at all. Im beginning to suspect the priming method.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obvious, I don't have a precise answer to your F-T-F primers but I do for part of your problem.
Look at the instructions for your Lee Loader Kit, note that step #2 states to drive the case in until it's flush with the die. It matters not if you use a rubber or plastic hammer but it does matter that you stop when the case is fully inserted, NOT 1/16th below flush.
Now, those cases you've massively over "neck sized" to the point of driving the shoulders back should probably be tossed. You could have a head seperation if one should ever actually go off.
Safe reloading requires that we read and follow directions dude. </div></div>
Ok. I just cut a reloaded piece of 3x reloaded remington brass in half to see if I had some separation. I cant see any at all. Im beginning to suspect the priming method. </div></div>
Good guess.
Stepping up in reloading gear will aid immensely in your production of quality ammunition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obvious, I don't have a precise answer to your F-T-F primers but I do for part of your problem.
Look at the instructions for your Lee Loader Kit, note that step #2 states to drive the case in until it's flush with the die. It matters not if you use a rubber or plastic hammer but it does matter that you stop when the case is fully inserted, NOT 1/16th below flush.
Now, those cases you've massively over "neck sized" to the point of driving the shoulders back should probably be tossed. You could have a head seperation if one should ever actually go off.
Safe reloading requires that we read and follow directions dude. </div></div>
Ok. I just cut a reloaded piece of 3x reloaded remington brass in half to see if I had some separation. I cant see any at all. Im beginning to suspect the priming method. </div></div>
Good guess.
Stepping up in reloading gear will aid immensely in your production of quality ammunition.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
I once had the opportunity to ask a champion about how they treat their match brass. The reply was kinda surprising; he F/L resizes on every loading cycle.
His reasoning was understandable, once I considered from an objective point of view. It just resets everything back to a common starting point, and essentially solves more problems than it causes.
It's a trade off.
The other side of the trade off is brass life. It's going to harden up sooner.
Now, you can anneal the brass, but that carries some critical issues with it that I'd rather not deal with. Cheaper (especially in currencies like peace of mind) in the longer run.
I guess it boils down to whether brass cost is more important than consistently reliable ammunition performance.
Skimp, and you will definitely pay for it on the target.
My primer failures came along early on in my handloading experience. They almost always tracked back to shallow seating or polisher media crumbs in the flash holes. It only takes a very small time expenditure to hold the case up to a light to visibly confirm a clear flash hole, and to remember to give the primer a good crisp push.
Greg
I once had the opportunity to ask a champion about how they treat their match brass. The reply was kinda surprising; he F/L resizes on every loading cycle.
His reasoning was understandable, once I considered from an objective point of view. It just resets everything back to a common starting point, and essentially solves more problems than it causes.
It's a trade off.
The other side of the trade off is brass life. It's going to harden up sooner.
Now, you can anneal the brass, but that carries some critical issues with it that I'd rather not deal with. Cheaper (especially in currencies like peace of mind) in the longer run.
I guess it boils down to whether brass cost is more important than consistently reliable ammunition performance.
Skimp, and you will definitely pay for it on the target.
My primer failures came along early on in my handloading experience. They almost always tracked back to shallow seating or polisher media crumbs in the flash holes. It only takes a very small time expenditure to hold the case up to a light to visibly confirm a clear flash hole, and to remember to give the primer a good crisp push.
Greg
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I once had the opportunity to ask a champion about how they treat their match brass. The reply was kinda surprising; he F/L resizes on every loading cycle.
I guess it boils down to whether brass cost is more important than consistently reliable ammunition performance.
Greg</div></div>
+1 on full length resizing my Lapua brass with Redding S dies at each loading. Perfect ammo, everytime. Not too worried about brass cost. I anneal at 5 loadings, and toss at 10. 6 cents per loading for brass is not tragic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I once had the opportunity to ask a champion about how they treat their match brass. The reply was kinda surprising; he F/L resizes on every loading cycle.
I guess it boils down to whether brass cost is more important than consistently reliable ammunition performance.
Greg</div></div>
+1 on full length resizing my Lapua brass with Redding S dies at each loading. Perfect ammo, everytime. Not too worried about brass cost. I anneal at 5 loadings, and toss at 10. 6 cents per loading for brass is not tragic.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
A couple of easy ones....
> Is there a chance that these primers were contaminated? It doesn't take much to ruin a primer.
Stored in a very humid area for a long period of time.
Residual moisture in cases from cleaning getting into the primers.
Case lube contamination, etc.
> Did you try these rounds in another rifle?
A couple of easy ones....
> Is there a chance that these primers were contaminated? It doesn't take much to ruin a primer.
Stored in a very humid area for a long period of time.
Residual moisture in cases from cleaning getting into the primers.
Case lube contamination, etc.
> Did you try these rounds in another rifle?
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
My primers live in a sealed USGI ammo can all their own. I employ "poor man's dessicant", rice in pouches made from coffee filters.
Works for salt shakers, why not ammo?
Greg
My primers live in a sealed USGI ammo can all their own. I employ "poor man's dessicant", rice in pouches made from coffee filters.
Works for salt shakers, why not ammo?
Greg
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leaddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A couple of easy ones....
> Is there a chance that these primers were contaminated? It doesn't take much to ruin a primer.
Stored in a very humid area for a long period of time.
Residual moisture in cases from cleaning getting into the primers.
Case lube contamination, etc.
> Did you try these rounds in another rifle? </div></div>
I store my primers in ammo cans. Try neck sized only reloads in another rifle? Im no reloading jedi master but I thought that was a big no no.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leaddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A couple of easy ones....
> Is there a chance that these primers were contaminated? It doesn't take much to ruin a primer.
Stored in a very humid area for a long period of time.
Residual moisture in cases from cleaning getting into the primers.
Case lube contamination, etc.
> Did you try these rounds in another rifle? </div></div>
I store my primers in ammo cans. Try neck sized only reloads in another rifle? Im no reloading jedi master but I thought that was a big no no.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
As a generalization they may not chamber in a different rifle. If the rifle you try it with has a looser chamber than yours it will fit. If the chamber is tighter you will either size the shell as you close the bolt or jam the neck up to far into the throat of the barrel. I think for now a little patience can go a long way.
As a generalization they may not chamber in a different rifle. If the rifle you try it with has a looser chamber than yours it will fit. If the chamber is tighter you will either size the shell as you close the bolt or jam the neck up to far into the throat of the barrel. I think for now a little patience can go a long way.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think for now a little patience can go a long way. </div></div>
Exactly. Im just waiting on my press. Should get here tomorrow evening. Ill get it set up and start sizing some cases.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think for now a little patience can go a long way. </div></div>
Exactly. Im just waiting on my press. Should get here tomorrow evening. Ill get it set up and start sizing some cases.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
I'm gonna agree with the guys saying that it's the shoulder being pushed back too far & the firing pin is pushing the round forward but not lighting off. I had a similar event while groundhog hunting with my 223AI... ran out of fireformed loads while in a "target rich environment" but had an old box of white box Winchester HP's in the truck. Tried one & it did exactly what you were seeing, dented the primer pretty good but did not light off (which sucked because I had a 'hog in the scope at the time of course LOL!). It was not long enough to reach my lands and "crush fit" so it would fireform when shot & the firing pin just pushed it forward. This would be very similar to what you described originally except that your case shoulder is inconsistently "bumped" back too far on some of your loads, creating the same issue. Consistency is key in handloading, & I'll wager that this problem will disappear when you get your press & dies set up correctly for your rifle.
I'm gonna agree with the guys saying that it's the shoulder being pushed back too far & the firing pin is pushing the round forward but not lighting off. I had a similar event while groundhog hunting with my 223AI... ran out of fireformed loads while in a "target rich environment" but had an old box of white box Winchester HP's in the truck. Tried one & it did exactly what you were seeing, dented the primer pretty good but did not light off (which sucked because I had a 'hog in the scope at the time of course LOL!). It was not long enough to reach my lands and "crush fit" so it would fireform when shot & the firing pin just pushed it forward. This would be very similar to what you described originally except that your case shoulder is inconsistently "bumped" back too far on some of your loads, creating the same issue. Consistency is key in handloading, & I'll wager that this problem will disappear when you get your press & dies set up correctly for your rifle.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
I set my dies so a resized case generates some (small but definite) bolt drag when closing.
I set my dies so a resized case generates some (small but definite) bolt drag when closing.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Last time I'll say anything on this thread.
</div></div>
But....you were out the last time you said you were out.
Are you out for real this time?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the headspace was that bad you could hear the case rattling in the chamber. Seriously.</div></div>
Did you say that with a straight face, seriously?
A commercial aircraft mechanic would be a tad more mechanically apt than that....I would hope, damn.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Last time I'll say anything on this thread.
</div></div>
But....you were out the last time you said you were out.
Are you out for real this time?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the headspace was that bad you could hear the case rattling in the chamber. Seriously.</div></div>
Did you say that with a straight face, seriously?
A commercial aircraft mechanic would be a tad more mechanically apt than that....I would hope, damn.
Re: Why am I having so many misfires?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Last time I'll say anything on this thread.
</div></div>
But....you were out the last time you said you were out.
Are you out for real this time?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the headspace was that bad you could hear the case rattling in the chamber. Seriously.</div></div>
Did you say that with a straight face, seriously?
A commercial aircraft mechanic would be a tad more mechanically apt than that....I would hope, damn.</div></div>
Since you invited, or rather called me out, I'll respond again.
If you look at the pics he posted you will see a very deep indentation in the primers. The primers also for the most part look round and appear, even in the not so good pics, to have a slight radius around the edges. That tells me he has a primer problem. What I do see, if there is any problem, is that the primers are seated deeply into the primer cup of the cases. I have smashed primers in a lot harder than that and still had them fire just fine.
As far as the headspace problem goes, think about it. Whether the rifle is a CRF or a PRF the extractor locks over the rim of the case. Hardly ever is there enough room with the case head held to the bolt face enough room so that the firing pin won't smack the primer solidly. With the few thousandths of an inch variation you can get, you will get vastly different velocities and accuracy. In rare cases will you not get a case to at least fire when it chambers pretty close. The evidence I give to that is people firing .308's in .30-06's and .270's, .243's in 30-06's, 270's and 25-06's. It takes the bottle-neck case and pretty much 'straight-walls' it. I've seen better than three dozen of such cases. Fortunately, through them all I didn't hear that anyone was hurt. But, the point being is with no datum on the shoulder and only the ejector to hold the case, it fired.
In order for the firing pin to not come close to the primer it has to sit in front of the extractor. A few thousandths too short of a shoulder will not keep the case from enjoining the extractor in it's usual way when being chambered.
That is why I say with a straight face that there is no way those cases shouldn't have fired. And if you have headspace so bad that the primer won't contact it, it will rattle in the chamber. Because the extractor won't grab it. Now, in your defense, it may be right in that range of length that the extractor holds it against the shoulder. But, then again, there would be no <span style="text-decoration: line-through">primer</span> firing pin marks on the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">case</span> primer.
One last thing I will tell you. I value each and every reloader. The more people who do this, the more it remains an economically viable enterprise. I don't want to dis people who want to try it. In my last post I can see where I let my frustration get the better of me and I made a remark about reloading equipment. Point taken that if I don't want to be dissed then I shouldn't do it in return. So, I want to put this thread back on an even keel and resume the solving of cpt. obvious's issue in a civil discussion and explanations we can give of his questions. I started to read the thread and thought sometimes people get crossed up with what they think they should be looking for. At which point, I started asking questions I thought may be pertinent to the problem and solution of that problem. Civility in communication goes a long way toward the final answer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Last time I'll say anything on this thread.
</div></div>
But....you were out the last time you said you were out.
Are you out for real this time?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the headspace was that bad you could hear the case rattling in the chamber. Seriously.</div></div>
Did you say that with a straight face, seriously?
A commercial aircraft mechanic would be a tad more mechanically apt than that....I would hope, damn.</div></div>
Since you invited, or rather called me out, I'll respond again.
If you look at the pics he posted you will see a very deep indentation in the primers. The primers also for the most part look round and appear, even in the not so good pics, to have a slight radius around the edges. That tells me he has a primer problem. What I do see, if there is any problem, is that the primers are seated deeply into the primer cup of the cases. I have smashed primers in a lot harder than that and still had them fire just fine.
As far as the headspace problem goes, think about it. Whether the rifle is a CRF or a PRF the extractor locks over the rim of the case. Hardly ever is there enough room with the case head held to the bolt face enough room so that the firing pin won't smack the primer solidly. With the few thousandths of an inch variation you can get, you will get vastly different velocities and accuracy. In rare cases will you not get a case to at least fire when it chambers pretty close. The evidence I give to that is people firing .308's in .30-06's and .270's, .243's in 30-06's, 270's and 25-06's. It takes the bottle-neck case and pretty much 'straight-walls' it. I've seen better than three dozen of such cases. Fortunately, through them all I didn't hear that anyone was hurt. But, the point being is with no datum on the shoulder and only the ejector to hold the case, it fired.
In order for the firing pin to not come close to the primer it has to sit in front of the extractor. A few thousandths too short of a shoulder will not keep the case from enjoining the extractor in it's usual way when being chambered.
That is why I say with a straight face that there is no way those cases shouldn't have fired. And if you have headspace so bad that the primer won't contact it, it will rattle in the chamber. Because the extractor won't grab it. Now, in your defense, it may be right in that range of length that the extractor holds it against the shoulder. But, then again, there would be no <span style="text-decoration: line-through">primer</span> firing pin marks on the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">case</span> primer.
One last thing I will tell you. I value each and every reloader. The more people who do this, the more it remains an economically viable enterprise. I don't want to dis people who want to try it. In my last post I can see where I let my frustration get the better of me and I made a remark about reloading equipment. Point taken that if I don't want to be dissed then I shouldn't do it in return. So, I want to put this thread back on an even keel and resume the solving of cpt. obvious's issue in a civil discussion and explanations we can give of his questions. I started to read the thread and thought sometimes people get crossed up with what they think they should be looking for. At which point, I started asking questions I thought may be pertinent to the problem and solution of that problem. Civility in communication goes a long way toward the final answer.
