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Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

P

Plasmech

Private
Minuteman
Apr 20, 2009
48
0
46
I was as the range this evening. I'm sending 75 grain 5.56 mm TAP's downrange and the guy next to me, maybe he was 25, was shooting a new high end bolt gun. It looked like a custom smith job. He showed me the proof target, it shot 0.2" group at 100 yards, I was like wow you got a winner there! So later an older guy starts yapping the kid's ear off about the gun. The kid shows him the test target, does a little "shpeal" about his new purchase, then old man takes control and starts irritating my eardrums with talk about this and that and cleaning after each shot and breathing control and breaking in the barrel yada yada yads heard it all before...but this guy goes on and on and ON about how this kid NEEDS to break in his barrel.

Nobody there except for me realized how stupid it would be to "break in" the barrel. You're telling me that I have a new rifle with a KILLER proof target, and I have to muck with the barrel, or anything for that matter? THE GUN ALREADY FREAKING ONE-HOLES PRACTICALLY!!! Where's the common sense here, for the life of me I can't figure it out.

Could someone please explain to me why break-in procedure would/should be used in this case? Will I get a negative shot group size, whatever that is?

Thanks, and sorry for my rant and poor story telling ability.

...So I notice the kid has a test target that came with his gun,
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

shoulda told the old timer to shut his yapper. or maybe the rifle's owner shoulda.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

IMHO I have decided for my purposes breaking barrels in is bullshit. Clean before first fireing to make sure there is no packing grease etc. in it. Clean it if you intend to stroe and not shoot for a while, clean when accuracy goes south.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I vote for breaking in the barrel. Custom or Factory, find someone with a bore scope and look down the bore. The shooter with the "custom" rifle most likely had a custom barrel on it. Line bore, ream, rifle (cut or button) and then polish. This bore now should look like smooth and shiney. The factory barrel was hammer forged or maybe button rifled. Scratches and rough edges on the corners of the lands. In the custom barrel, the shot going down range will smooth out any other microscopic imperfections to finish bringing it to it's fullest potential as a barrel. Same thing for the factory barrel, the break-in shots will burnish out some of the tooling marks so you can realize it's fullest potential.
If the whole idea is to just to make gunfire noise and kick up some dirt in the backstop, get a cheap AK and a case of cheap Yugo made ammo. Otherwise, any rifle (WalMart Savage or GAP) deserves proper treatment and break-in, best ammo you can assemble or buy, best glass you can afford and then your best effort at causing every round to go into the tightest group possible.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I have not proven this theory yet but this is my experience with barrel brake in, and a story to tell it.

Two brothers both bought identical GAP rifles in 308, both had 24" Bartlein barrels and they also both shot Fed GM 175gr match ammo thru their rifles.

The 1st brother started shooting immediately and over time shot close to 300rds prior to attending a rifle class.

The 2nd brother did not shoot hardly at all prior to the class, maybe 20rds just to get the rifle zero'd.

While at the class, we chrono'd both rifles and the 1st brother whom had shot alot his numbers were really excellent, in the teen's for ES. The 2nd brother while his rifles numbers were still really good, they were approx double of what the other identical rifle was reading.

I have noticed also that over time that when you initially chrono a rifle you will have a certain muzzle velocity and then later when you have fired several hundred rounds thru it, your muzzle velocity will change by about 20fps.

Why is this? I have not confirmed anything but it seems that breaking in a barrel does something to improve the performance of the rifle. I don't think it is something that you can measure at 100yds, but by running it thru a chronograph you can see the difference in numbers.

I have never broken in a barrel and I don't really think that you have to follow the stringent shoot one, clean one regiment. I guess you could call it seasoning a barrel vs break in?
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

The reason that the barrels change velocit is the bore actualy work hardens and if you fire yout rifles at say 500 yards you can see an elevation shift somewhere around 50 to 80 rounds then they usualy settle down. the reason to break in barrels is to smoth out the burs in the throat. This can be done in 3 to 5 rounds with high grade barrels but some cheeper barrels might take 20 shots to stop picking up fouling. If a barrel does not stop fouling in 20 rounds then it is time to fire 10 shots straight as that usualy squares them away.

teh way i run them in is fire 3 singles then 2 pairs then i place a target up and zero the rifle with the next 5 and after that shoot 10 shot matches until 50 rounds are through it and then shoot 2 10 shot matches with sighters ultil it is over 100 rounds then after that every 50 rounds with some rifles but after 200 rounds down the tube even my 7mm rem SAUM shooting 67gr of Retumbo i shoot 100 to 150 rounds without cleening and with 6mm Dashers i shoot 250 to 300 rounds between cleaning.

I also believe most barrels are ruined by cleaning as i am involved in fitting Lawton, Rock Creek and Benchmark barrels as we are the Australian Agents for them and we reccomend some running in but not stupidity we have found that these brands will run in well in under 10 rounds.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I have tossed the idea of breaking in a barrel. I really believe this is an antiquated idea from days ago that has been passed down as folk lor and stuck. I bet many years ago when production technique were not as good it may have served a purpose, but today not so much. Hell in the '70s what were the odds of an off the. Shelf gun shooting .5 moa out the box like some of the new savages.
The last two posts really speak to seasoning a barrel not breaking in the barrel and I guess that will spin of the clean or don't clean argument and how does the rifle shoot when fouled slightly. But the fact is cleaning is rough on barrels. Increases chances of damage to barrel or crown. And if your cleaning aggresively enough to smooth tool marks, your cleaning aggresively enough to remove steel in other areas too. If your not cleaning that aggresively then what are you doing? Certainly nothing to aide the breakin process but clean out the bore to fresh dry steel for the next shot and again that goes back to shoot cleanor shoot fowled.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Thoughts from Krieger. 13 runds for break in. Not exactly burning up a barrel.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

Barrel break in is one of those issues that people either do or don't. Personal preference. I use Tubb TMS rounds to break in my throat and take out the sharp edges of a new barrel. What anyone else does is their own personal choice. It's their rifle.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

"Barrel break-in procedure" should be more properly labeled "barrel wear-out procedure".

Just what do you think you're trying to accomplish by doing a "barrel break-in" on say a factory Remington 700 SPS?

You want to "smooth" out imperfections in the bore for what purpose? Better accuracy? Less copper fouling?

The thing is this, the owner would never know the difference if they did a barrel break in or not. Take a borescope and look through a factory remington barrel. Then do a "break-in" and look through it again with the borescope... I'd bet you'd still see imperfections as before. It's just that now you wasted your time, ammo, and cleaning stuff trying to accomplish something that has no relevance in anything except what gale mcmillan wrote above.

Like Rob said above its personal preference. I choose to bypass it.

 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

All barrels will "break in " to a certain extent.

I break mine in by shooting them.
No tedious cleaning process, just shoot the thing like you would normally do.

If there are small imperfection in the bore, you WANT them filled with copper, why the hell would you continue to clean this out?

Besides, it that young fellow was lucky enough to have a custom stick, the barrel was probably hand lapped.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Besides, it that young fellow was lucky enough to have a custom stick, the barrel was probably hand lapped.</div></div>

From the link above:

"Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure."

That is why I use TMS rounds for the first few rounds through a barrel after a very good cleaning after receiving the rifle from the smith. To smooth out the throat. 3 TMS, clean, 3 TMS and done. That's the method that Tubb recommends. Just another option for someone who doesn't want to do the more labor intensive method but wants to get the benefits of smothing out the reamer marks in the throat area.

And before anyone mentions it, the TMS rounds will not hurt your bore. They use a grit on them which is finer than the grit used to hand lap the bore.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

All my long range stuff shoots better with a fouled bore. I don't clean anything unless accuracy falls off. I don't break in except for the rounds needed to zero a new barrel.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I have usually considered firelapping as a supplement to the barrel making process, to be applied according to whether that process involves final lapping.

In a general sense, it can be assumed that unless otherwise documented, a factory rifle barrel will not have been subjected to any deliberate final lapping procedure.

In another general sense, it can be assumed that unless otherwise documented, a premium aftermarket barrel has been subjected to a final lapping procedure.

As far as final lapping is concerned, I agree completely with Rob01 that final lapping of the leade/throat area is beneficial.

For my purposes, firelapping is far more convenient a method for me to accomplish than hand lapping, so I will do it where I believe it has merit. I think it does not have merit and is counterproductive with a premium aftermarket barrel. I believe the opposite where factory production barrels are concerned.

I consulted broadly with my barrel maker when my custom .260 barrels were on order. They hand lap the entire bore, and not only the leade/throat area. While it remains unclear to me why this is done, I firmly believe the barrel maker has good reason to do this. This barrel maker also has a policy of voiding their warranty where evidence of abrasives have been used in the bore once the barrel is installed. Regardless of their reasons, I also think this policy makes sense.

Greg
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel makers gotta eat too..... </div></div>

Companies making reloading comnponents gotta eat too....
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thoughts from Krieger. 13 runds for break in. Not exactly burning up a barrel.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

Barrel break in is one of those issues that people either do or don't. Personal preference. I use Tubb TMS rounds to break in my throat and take out the sharp edges of a new barrel. What anyone else does is their own personal choice. It's their rifle. </div></div>

Rob, those are words of wisdom and experience!

Short, sweet and on target.

Your reply has clearly been carefully honed over the thousand times this topic has come up.
laugh.gif

 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

A guy that I shoot with and allow to hunt on our property just clued me in on his break in.
He was showing me his new rifle, he broke it in without firing a shot.
He hand lapped his barrel with an abrasive paste to break it in.
You know because it takes all the burrs and whatnot out.

I couldn't bring myself to say, funny I didn't realize that the hammer forged Ruger barrels had burrs from cutting the rifling.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

my favorite cleaning method i witnessed years ago while at deer camp. a co worker invited me hunting and after he shot 2 dog sized fawns opening day he carried them out(one under each arm. took his sks off his shoulder , sprayed wd40 all over it. patched the barrel with a coat hanger then thru it in a rotten looking soft case and said" good to go till next year"
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my favorite cleaning method i witnessed years ago while at deer camp. a co worker invited me hunting and after he shot 2 dog sized fawns opening day he carried them out(one under each arm. took his sks off his shoulder , sprayed wd40 all over it. patched the barrel with a coat hanger then thru it in a rotten looking soft case and said" good to go till next year"</div></div>

why you gotta bust me out on here biotch? see if i take ya out back in the "special" reserved acreage out behind my trailer park for them monster 90+ pounders hidin back there next year! and dont lead the readers arry, it wasnt a coat hanger, it was a a pick attachement on my dremel tool
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Rob01 And before anyone mentions it said:
+1 on the TMS....David Freakn' Tubb....I think I will listen to him.

Hey Rob01 do you reload the TMS or use the now loaded ones?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

This debate will never be quelled, its the same thing in the performance engine building community. One builder will tell you to take the engine and run the piss out of it for a little while and change the oil and your set, yet another will tell you to baby it for xx miles, change the oil, go another xx miles and so on. Either way seems to work as far as I can see, and until someone comes up with a definitive scientific test(pretty much impossible with all the variables involved) proving one way is better than the other, the debate will rage endlessly.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

No you tell me . I should of read/researched this before I spent all day "Breaking in"
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I scanned the posts, but did not catch any reference to the following thread. Excellent article right here on the hide - 2nd sticky in Gunsmithing Forum:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1562996#Post1562996

Expanding on Bucksquirelly's post: Production machining processes have improved dramatically in recent years. An analogy: Barrel (cylinder bore) and Bullet (piston). Relating to engine building, even 35 years ago, we never "broke-in" a race engine because of overall assembly tolerances and the wall finish of the cylinder. After an initial warm-up, GTG. "Production" engines, until the last few years required break-in (remember changing the oil after first 500 mi?). You don't see this anymore.

Take the modern custom barrel - lapped to a fine finish before it leaves the manufacturer. No need to "fire lap" or "break-in". As said in earlier posts, breakin-in is taking you sooner to the end-life of barrel.

Kevin
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Elohim1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No you tell me . I should of read/researched this before I spent all day "Breaking in"

</div></div>

If you have time, extra ammo, and most importantly patience, by all means, break them in. I have 3 new AIAWs 1 GAP custom and never have to break in any barrel and they all shoot sub MOA on any given day. In fact, even my Tikka T3, my 243 and all of my rifles, shoot sub MOA without breaking in the barrel. Can you imagine braking the barrel in according to the guideline for a 338LM? That's a shitload of ammo you have to waste.

Calling for NObody's video on break in barrel....
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Yeah, I'm not a fan of breaking in barrels, nor motorcycles either. Never had a problem because of it either.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

If you buy a decent barrel they do not need to be broken in. However when you take this brand new barrel and ream a chamber in it that is when you run into problems depending on the reamer age how long it has been used for etc. What happens is that you get sharp edges that are very small at the end of where the chamber is cut and where the rifling starts this is where most of the copper fouling comes from. Each rifle is a little different as is every smith. This is where the misconception comes from that the barrel needs to be broken in. The old timer is right and wrong. Most barrel companies wont say anything about breaking in barrels because a barrel is not a horse or need any breaking in. I just found kriegers article about this and is close to what I said but makes a lot more sense. break in
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

NOBODY is busy. Hunting bear, salmon, eggs for breakfast.

And, breaking in barrels.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TRRahHX9Zkg"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TRRahHX9Zkg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

How do you like those TUBB rounds?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thoughts from Krieger. 13 runds for break in. Not exactly burning up a barrel.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

Barrel break in is one of those issues that people either do or don't. Personal preference. I use Tubb TMS rounds to break in my throat and take out the sharp edges of a new barrel. What anyone else does is their own personal choice. It's their rifle. </div></div>
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tullius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NOBODY is busy. Hunting bear, salmon, eggs for breakfast.

And, breaking in barrels.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TRRahHX9Zkg"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TRRahHX9Zkg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

That video cracks me up every time ...

I shoot 5 rounds through a new barrel then give it a good cleaning ... then im done. Never noticed a big change in velocities over time. I don't buy into the whole "break in one round then clean" school.

my .0002 cents
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EagleI79</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Hey Rob01 do you reload the TMS or use the now loaded ones?</div></div>

Load my own. I also use 2 every 300-400 rounds to keep the throat smooth. Works well for me.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Break in and shooting looks a lot alike........
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/f_LvPjreNjg"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/f_LvPjreNjg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

buy rifle, go to range, shoot to zero sights, shazam!!!!broke in...just sayin.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

I'll take a shot at it.

I don't think a custom lapped barrel coppers in the first place

Some plummers include breakin info with their shipped sticks, some don't. I've had/owned sticks built via GAP and others. To a gun, I found if I buy/own a new reamer for the plummer to use and it's use correctly, there's never any copper in the Rock barrels I have had installed.

If I allow the plummer to use their std shop reamer it takes 15-40 rds to stop the coppering. Now I am very stupid and I know an except that fact, but if I can see the difference,.....

I believe the amount of coppering is the report card of the plummer, if a lapped custom tube was used in the first place. Pleasing to the eye, Name, and amount of money spent, means shit down range. I've seen the same shooter with a $600.00 no name stick, out shoot a $3K Name stick before.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Ok - let me ask a question from a different direction. How many rounds down your barrel before you notice accuracy degrade? What causes the degradation - is it powder fouling or copper fouling?

If I'm trying to keep copper fouling to a minimum then I'm breaking in my barrel. My last custom barrel (Mark Chanlynn) took 7 rounds before it quit fouling copper. Best shooting barrel I've owned. He also stated that he's seen more barrels ruined by overzealous cleaning than being shot out BUT even he recommended a 5 shot or so break-in. I don't think that is wearing down the barrel life one bit or "keeping him in business". It's 5-7 freaking rounds, heck most guys use that many shots just to dial in their newly mounted scope.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

My guess is over cleaning first, burn't up throat an fire cracking second, an third.

Remember the bullet is being pushed via pressure and anywhere it can expand the fire cracking will grab an mark the bullet. A patch an solvent will find an grab anything left behind. It's not about copper left behind, it's about still being able to hit your target at long range with a bullet that has been marked in places other than the lands an grooves. Those marks are what effects bullets at long range. If they were equal like the barrel marking, it would be a none issue.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

It's bloody simple.
"Break in" does a few things. YOU get to feel the barrel, check the barrel and see how it cleans up.
Quality barrels don't (shouldnt) gain anything.
Factory may.
The last one I did was a Savage M10PC. "Break in" consisted of 10-15 shots. I now know this gun does not foul and is stable. The bore is smooth.
Another Savage I have has a tight choke after the fluting and was quite rough. It did foul at first.
Had I bought a quality barrel like the Second Savage I would have be having a detailed conversation with the maker. It does happen from time to time.

I really don't give a shit what XX maker states and why maker YY thinks it does something. It's about YOU learning your equipment and checking it. It's about YOU seeing it is not rough. It does *NO* damage when you use the correct tools.
Most of the opinions are based on a misunderstanding of what people think it going on or what they are actually doing.
It's based on people not being able to see ANY difference between a decent and factory barrel.
It's about forming one rigid opinion and everything else being wrong because YOU are right.

Learn your equipment. Check your equipment. If you don't care, fine. Others do and as long as they understand what is actually going on and there is no magic involved it's not a problem.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

All production line barrels I JB before I shoot them,then clean according to presicion shooting.When they quit fouling I clean them every 20 to 50 shots.I have had good luck with accuracy.I had custom barrels that I cleaned once a year after several hundred rounds.Every barrel is differant. To each his own.clean it how you want,it's your barrel.A rifle is like a woman you have to rub each one a littel diferant.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

Break in? Meh.

Hornady TAP? Now you're really wasting your money and whatever extra time it takes to find it.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

my fave breakin procedure is throw a blank in the chamber, shove a cleaning rod in the tube and shoot it at a tree some distance away. not sure this gets the fouling out but it sure is fun.
 
Re: Why "breaking in" a barrel is NOT necessary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaybird39</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All production line barrels I JB before I shoot them,then clean according to presicion shooting.When they quit fouling I clean them every 20 to 50 shots.I have had good luck with accuracy.I had custom barrels that I cleaned once a year after several hundred rounds.Every barrel is differant. To each his own.clean it how you want,it's your barrel.A rifle is like a woman you have to rub each one a littel diferant. </div></div>
seems to me if yer takin the time to know different women well enuf to know they like different types of rubbing....
yer doin it wrong.
 
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