Gunsmithing Why do all my high end scopes stick in precision matched ring bottoms while installing on a precision 1-piece base????

[Cascade Hemi]

I leveled my last scope with a deck of Uno cards.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

My scope rings were too tight on my scope tube so I went up a size. Now my one inch tasco sits in 30mm rings with no binding. I wrapped paper towel around the tube to fill the gap, if you use this method, make sure you use Bounty paper towels, they are super absorbant and soak up more recoil.

 

[Alabusa]

In the words of the great jedi master.......Thicker skin someone needs

 

[Red_SC]

Stiction doesn’t necessarily mean something is out of spec. We all have precision ground scope tubes and rings right?

 

[Baron23]

Wow, what a thread. I just happened to trip over the OP's bitch session on another site (while looking for other unrelated info) and out of curiosity came back here to see what all of the brouhaha was about and found it. Just wow.

I'm not going to comment on any of the interpersonal stuff. Its not about me, I have a fairly thick skin, and if someone takes a rhetorical swing at me, I'm fine with swinging back but don't need to take up anyone else's fight.

As to leveling. Yes, I do get that the errors down range from small leveling errors may well be inconsequential. I don't care, I level to the gun anyway. I was an aero engineer, USAF pilot, and later a program manager in very high tech. To me, things are either completely and utterly right or they are wrong. Yeah, I'm kind of binary that way.

I do have a set of Ariska leveling tools which provide similar function to the Spuhr leveling groove and wedges and work well. Just need enough room between the turret flat and the rail to get them in there. And yes, pretty much any very flat and square device will do....like feeler gauges, playing cards, whatever.

So why do I choose to level my scopes to the gun? That is, why is it "right" for me at this point in time.

Well, because I don't shoot off hand very much at all. Bench or prone at very soon to be 68 y.o. I know if I level to the gun, I at least have one datum plane I can count on.

Someone in the thread mentioned shouldering the gun (un-rested and off hand, I presume) and rotate the scope to gravity level with the gun in your shoulder pocket. Grand idea and this fella must be pretty beefy. I have a 6.5 CM in a J Allen chassis and no way can I hold that gun to my shoulder with one arm.

I suppose you really don't need to take all of the weight and can rest the gun on a single point as long as the gun has freedom to rotate around the longitudinal axis and into your natural shoulder pocket.

I shot tournament skeet for many decades and EVERY one of my shotguns has adjustable butt pads to move the whole gun up a bit but also to cant the pad so that it fits into my natural in my shoulder pocket with the gun level to gravity. And everybody, even the guy with the flattest pecs, has a shoulder pocket that is off from vertical. Me, I'm a big breasted boy! haha

With the shotguns and moving clay targets, it really is beneficial to have your and face/eyes/gun level to gravity when the pad is in your shoulder pocket...for a number of reasons.

I now see that there are some chassis and the like with pads that will adjust for cant, but it doesn't seem like very many so I suppose that supports the position of level to gravity with gun canted in your shoulder pocket....if you shoot off hand. Makes perfect sense.

But I would still prefer a scope leveled to the gun with an adjustable pad to take care of shoulder pocket angle issues. From so many years swinging a shotgun, I have come to appreciate just how attune to off angles the human eyes and brain can be. So, I do tend right now to like my guns to be level to gravity. Just feels right to me.

And again, wow...what a thread.

 

[n00g7]

As to leveling. Yes, I do get that the errors down range from small leveling errors may well be inconsequential. I don't care, I level to the gun anyway. I was an aero engineer, USAF pilot, and later a program manager in very high tech. To me, things are either completely and utterly right or they are wrong. Yeah, I'm kind of binary that way.

What if your impacts for your rifle’s zero are perfectly in between a .1 mil click? Wouldn’t you want to rotate your scope 5* off level with the rifle so you could get the perfect zero With a 2-2.3” height over bore? Your scope mounted bubble level would still tell you when the reticle is true with gravity. Note: the “error” at 1000y would be less by rotating the scope than just getting unlucky with where your impacts fall when zeroing.

I get the whole “level everything” mentality, but there are far better applications of one’s OCD if one wants to put it to use.

 

[pmclaine]

Someone in the thread mentioned shouldering the gun (un-rested and off hand, I presume) and rotate the scope to gravity level with the gun in your shoulder pocket. Grand idea and this fella must be pretty beefy. I have a 6.5 CM in a J Allen chassis and no way can I hold that gun to my shoulder with one arm.

I suppose you really don't need to take all of the weight and can rest the gun on a single point as long as the gun has freedom to rotate around the longitudinal axis and into your natural shoulder pocket.

Doesnt have to be "unrested or offhand". On a bench or prone on bipod works.

Just shoulder the gun so that you have natural point of aim without fighting the gun. You find the place where firearm ergonomics and body mechanics merge together - the natural fit of the rifle.

My rifle usually isnt in my shoulder pocket. Usually its butted up on my collarbone as close to centerline of spine as my big head will allow it......better for recoil control and yes painful after a full day of shooting with a metal buttplate.

The point is if you get the gun into a position where it fits your body and you dont fight it there may be cant. You should dismiss a minor cant and just level the scope to gravity.

Results will be better this way than dealing with an ill fitted gun you fight to keep in a un-natural position.

If you have a full articulating BP you do the same thing where the butt pad and body meet while having the ability to keep the gun level.

With traditional stocks though you dont get that luxury of rotating the butt plate around - your best option is to go for best rifle fit and let the scope rotate in its rings to find gravity.

Rehashing old arguments.

You should shoot your rifle level/level because mentally you achieve the "comfort" I feel physically when I let my HTG stock have a little cant.

 

[Baron23]

I get the whole “level everything” mentality, but there are far better applications of one’s OCD if one wants to put it to use.

Haha yeah, but it’s been a long lock down. Haha

 

[deersniper]

I just installed a S&B 1-8x24 Dual CC scope into a precision GDI quick disconnect mount and experienced similar observations. It was hard to rotate the scope in the not-yet tightened rings without the whole gun moving. I triple bubble-leveled the rifle / scope during installation but when I was done, the gap between the upper / lower rings on the right / left side where not symmetrical.......drove me nuts, I am pretty sure it doesn't make a bit of difference however released the screws and incrementally tightened them so the gaps where equal when torque setting reached. I chalked it up to just really close tolerances of parts.View attachment 7074344View attachment 7074345

Why the high dollar QD but no irons ?

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^ That was one year ago at the beginning of this thread! and this 6.8 project after almost a 2 year wait on the scope.

Once I got the eye relief correct realized there is not much rear rail slot real estate to mount off set BUIS and still clear the PMII shark fin on full rotation.

I usually mount the KAC flip micro 45 deg offset style but changed it up for this package and eventually settled on the Dueck's.

It can shoot level.

.

 

[mewillis]

Hopefully $1 and some common sense isn't too much to ask, and for all non aerospace engineer's "remove chain before use" LOL
carry on.........