Why does a scope cost so much. There is no way it cost $2000 to make a scope. I just don't see it. I wonder what the real cost is for making a NF or a Z. It looks like they make $1500 a scope. Anyone know the answer for this?
Rifle Scopes why does a scope
- Thread starter Winfree
- Start date
Re: why does a scope
If you were to make "ONE" scope for yourself that approched the quality of a Nightforce or US Optics it would most likely cost you over 1 million dollars. The cost of tooling, research and development, coatings, raw materials, design, making new designs, insurance, labor costs, location, taxes etc. etc. etc. You my friend have never owned a business I bet. The first Viagra most likely cost a few million dollars and every one after that 50 cents. So should they only charge 50 cents for your hard on?
If you were to make "ONE" scope for yourself that approched the quality of a Nightforce or US Optics it would most likely cost you over 1 million dollars. The cost of tooling, research and development, coatings, raw materials, design, making new designs, insurance, labor costs, location, taxes etc. etc. etc. You my friend have never owned a business I bet. The first Viagra most likely cost a few million dollars and every one after that 50 cents. So should they only charge 50 cents for your hard on?
Re: why does a scope
You seem to only be looking at this from a "cost of materials" standpoint and even then...quality materials, tooling, etc. ain't cheap. Don't forget R&D, design/engineering, etc. The scopes you are talking about aren't POS Trashcos, BSA, etc.
You seem to only be looking at this from a "cost of materials" standpoint and even then...quality materials, tooling, etc. ain't cheap. Don't forget R&D, design/engineering, etc. The scopes you are talking about aren't POS Trashcos, BSA, etc.
Re: why does a scope
Well my friend you made my point in your post. I can see the first one costing out the ass. But how many have they made and sold since then? It cost more than a car engine. It seems that the material couldn't cost more than $500. Even if we give them a $300 to put it together where does the other $1000 come in to play? Has anyone really done a break down of what it cost per scope to make and what the mark up is? It just seems really inflated.
Well my friend you made my point in your post. I can see the first one costing out the ass. But how many have they made and sold since then? It cost more than a car engine. It seems that the material couldn't cost more than $500. Even if we give them a $300 to put it together where does the other $1000 come in to play? Has anyone really done a break down of what it cost per scope to make and what the mark up is? It just seems really inflated.
Re: why does a scope
How can you state that the price is inflated if you have no idea, obviously, what it takes to produce the scopes?
If they were all ripping us off the problem would soon be corrected. If they really made $1000.00 a scope this would present one hell of an opportunity for a competitor to jump into the market with only a $500.00 markup....kicking the crap out of the rest of them. Then someone would make one with a $400.00 markup, and so on until the profit margins dwindled to where the field of manufacturers thinned. It's a natural order, when we don't get the government involved.
The main thing I find wrong here is your complete lack of faith in free-market principles and practices. The manufacturers face ever increasing labor and material costs. They also must develop new products or they will lose thier competitive edge......or should they just keep making the same model with no improvements until everyone starts buying elsewhere because they want newer technology?
How can you state that the price is inflated if you have no idea, obviously, what it takes to produce the scopes?
If they were all ripping us off the problem would soon be corrected. If they really made $1000.00 a scope this would present one hell of an opportunity for a competitor to jump into the market with only a $500.00 markup....kicking the crap out of the rest of them. Then someone would make one with a $400.00 markup, and so on until the profit margins dwindled to where the field of manufacturers thinned. It's a natural order, when we don't get the government involved.
The main thing I find wrong here is your complete lack of faith in free-market principles and practices. The manufacturers face ever increasing labor and material costs. They also must develop new products or they will lose thier competitive edge......or should they just keep making the same model with no improvements until everyone starts buying elsewhere because they want newer technology?
Re: why does a scope
I understand the free market. But I am looking at a NF scope. I see the outside of it. I see the inside as I look through it. It is a great scope and clear as a bell. I don't think you could get much better. I understand about mark up and making money off of what you sale. They make it. They send it to a dealer. He marks it up and sales it to me. So I guess the mark up on the scope would be around $500. But I would love to know what it really cost to make this scope.
Sure there is R&D. Same goes into a A/C unit as well. But really it is more complex and sales for about the same price. I guess I just need to look it up and see where they get their glass. Then the knobs and what the cost would be. Then I can say no wonder they cost so much. To say I don't understand is just saying you don't know either. You just take it for what it is and pay the price.
I understand the free market. But I am looking at a NF scope. I see the outside of it. I see the inside as I look through it. It is a great scope and clear as a bell. I don't think you could get much better. I understand about mark up and making money off of what you sale. They make it. They send it to a dealer. He marks it up and sales it to me. So I guess the mark up on the scope would be around $500. But I would love to know what it really cost to make this scope.
Sure there is R&D. Same goes into a A/C unit as well. But really it is more complex and sales for about the same price. I guess I just need to look it up and see where they get their glass. Then the knobs and what the cost would be. Then I can say no wonder they cost so much. To say I don't understand is just saying you don't know either. You just take it for what it is and pay the price.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a scope cost so much. There is no way it cost $2000 to make a scope. I just don't see it. I wonder what the real cost is for making a NF or a Z. It looks like they make $1500 a scope. Anyone know the answer for this?</div></div>
i don't know where to begin...........ye of the great un-washed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a scope cost so much. There is no way it cost $2000 to make a scope. I just don't see it. I wonder what the real cost is for making a NF or a Z. It looks like they make $1500 a scope. Anyone know the answer for this?</div></div>
i don't know where to begin...........ye of the great un-washed.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a scope cost so much. There is no way it cost $2000 to make a scope. I just don't see it. I wonder what the real cost is for making a NF or a Z. It looks like they make $1500 a scope. Anyone know the answer for this? </div></div>
If you really think this is the case why dont you jump in and start making scopes. Just think of the money you would make if you reallt believe how this is the way it works.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a scope cost so much. There is no way it cost $2000 to make a scope. I just don't see it. I wonder what the real cost is for making a NF or a Z. It looks like they make $1500 a scope. Anyone know the answer for this? </div></div>
If you really think this is the case why dont you jump in and start making scopes. Just think of the money you would make if you reallt believe how this is the way it works.
Re: why does a scope
Ah if business were only that easy, everyone would be doing it. Material + Time doesn't equal Cost.
Initially you have to look at it from this standpoint, for every scope you sell you need to have at least 3X the material cost just to make ends meet.
take the materials plus the time to make it, that is your bottom line cost. Then you have you have to add in paying not only the company so it can expand and grow, but yourself and its employees. After that you have to add in what it cost to keep the facility open, rent / lease, tools and supplies. After all that is said and figured you have to add in taxes and fees for even having a business. All that goes towards the final price too.
Marketing and advertising, all that cost money as well, the accountant to balance the books, the import taxes to bring in things from overseas... exchange rates that change daily, its never just as cut and dry as Cost + Time = Price.
I figure Material + Labor X 3 = a start point.
Ah if business were only that easy, everyone would be doing it. Material + Time doesn't equal Cost.
Initially you have to look at it from this standpoint, for every scope you sell you need to have at least 3X the material cost just to make ends meet.
take the materials plus the time to make it, that is your bottom line cost. Then you have you have to add in paying not only the company so it can expand and grow, but yourself and its employees. After that you have to add in what it cost to keep the facility open, rent / lease, tools and supplies. After all that is said and figured you have to add in taxes and fees for even having a business. All that goes towards the final price too.
Marketing and advertising, all that cost money as well, the accountant to balance the books, the import taxes to bring in things from overseas... exchange rates that change daily, its never just as cut and dry as Cost + Time = Price.
I figure Material + Labor X 3 = a start point.
Re: why does a scope
lots here have met with the very people that put the finest gear in our hands that we take to the field and operate with........whole companies and the families upon families that are supported by those said companies work and promote and excel to bring to market the best they can.
...i can only say that YOU have not been 'around the horn'...otherwise you would know to realize what makes the world go round.....
lots here have met with the very people that put the finest gear in our hands that we take to the field and operate with........whole companies and the families upon families that are supported by those said companies work and promote and excel to bring to market the best they can.
...i can only say that YOU have not been 'around the horn'...otherwise you would know to realize what makes the world go round.....
Re: why does a scope
The value of something is not really the price the materials cost.
The value of something is what people are willing to pay for it.
Take the iPhone. Some guys stripped it down and determined that it cost $265 in components to make. The retail price on that sucker is $500 (ignoring, of course, the subsidies AT&T gives to bring the price down for the end user -- Apple still gets $500+ per iPhone eventually). Is Apple evil for getting almost a 100% return on the component costs all because people are willing to pay that price? Or are people who buy iPhones dumb because the could have bought each component separately (theoretically) and saved themselves $235?
I think the assumption in your question is the wrong way to look at it -- the idea that only if the physical components cost a LOT of money would you think it's worth what they charge for a scope. But that's like saying a Picasso painting is $10 worth of canvas and $5 worth of paint, so it's only worth $15. Or that the only way a work of art would be worth a lot of money is if it was made with gold and diamonds.
Let's not forget the service that comes with good scopes. I never worry about my S&B going bad, because if it did, the company that makes it will stand behind their product, pretty much until my eyes get too old to see through the scope anymore. A lifetime of good service is worth how much to you?
The value of something is not really the price the materials cost.
The value of something is what people are willing to pay for it.
Take the iPhone. Some guys stripped it down and determined that it cost $265 in components to make. The retail price on that sucker is $500 (ignoring, of course, the subsidies AT&T gives to bring the price down for the end user -- Apple still gets $500+ per iPhone eventually). Is Apple evil for getting almost a 100% return on the component costs all because people are willing to pay that price? Or are people who buy iPhones dumb because the could have bought each component separately (theoretically) and saved themselves $235?
I think the assumption in your question is the wrong way to look at it -- the idea that only if the physical components cost a LOT of money would you think it's worth what they charge for a scope. But that's like saying a Picasso painting is $10 worth of canvas and $5 worth of paint, so it's only worth $15. Or that the only way a work of art would be worth a lot of money is if it was made with gold and diamonds.
Let's not forget the service that comes with good scopes. I never worry about my S&B going bad, because if it did, the company that makes it will stand behind their product, pretty much until my eyes get too old to see through the scope anymore. A lifetime of good service is worth how much to you?
Re: why does a scope
One guy sets the price point and others follow. No relationship to cost/return in this market.
Want cheap scopes? No one buys one for 12 months and then you can have $800.00 tactical scopes again.
Keep buying at current levels and you get what you get.
One guy sets the price point and others follow. No relationship to cost/return in this market.
Want cheap scopes? No one buys one for 12 months and then you can have $800.00 tactical scopes again.
Keep buying at current levels and you get what you get.
Re: why does a scope
LowLight that was a great answer and really where I was looking at this from. I was not wanting to piss on any one's I know it all game. I was saying that it would cost about $500 to make the scope. The other $1300 is to pay the bills and cost to market it. That is a hell of a mark up to me. Also yes I own one and paid the price for it just like the rest of you. But I wasn't mooing when I got in line and bought it.
LowLight that was a great answer and really where I was looking at this from. I was not wanting to piss on any one's I know it all game. I was saying that it would cost about $500 to make the scope. The other $1300 is to pay the bills and cost to market it. That is a hell of a mark up to me. Also yes I own one and paid the price for it just like the rest of you. But I wasn't mooing when I got in line and bought it.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One guy sets the price point and others follow. No relationship to cost/return in this market.
Want cheap scopes? No one buys one for 12 months and then you can have $800.00 tactical scopes again.
Keep buying at current levels and you get what you get. </div></div>
Good old American supply and demand right there!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One guy sets the price point and others follow. No relationship to cost/return in this market.
Want cheap scopes? No one buys one for 12 months and then you can have $800.00 tactical scopes again.
Keep buying at current levels and you get what you get. </div></div>
Good old American supply and demand right there!
Re: why does a scope
Hell while we're at it, why do two tubes screwed into each other with a fitted plug cost so much? I mean a Bartlein barrel can't be more than $20 worth of steel, and a (insert custom action maker name here) action can't be more than another $20, and I guarantee less than $5 worth of electricity can run the lathe and mill to make 'em..........
Hell while we're at it, why do two tubes screwed into each other with a fitted plug cost so much? I mean a Bartlein barrel can't be more than $20 worth of steel, and a (insert custom action maker name here) action can't be more than another $20, and I guarantee less than $5 worth of electricity can run the lathe and mill to make 'em..........
Re: why does a scope
I guess the thing is I work hard for the money I make and I like to know I get the most bang for my buck. If shooters are buying something and paying out the ass for it just because the cool guys are buying it the price will stay up. Yes supply and demand. Its just look at your scope on your weapon. Does it look like what it cost? Guess it just pisses me off to spend a lot of money.
I guess the thing is I work hard for the money I make and I like to know I get the most bang for my buck. If shooters are buying something and paying out the ass for it just because the cool guys are buying it the price will stay up. Yes supply and demand. Its just look at your scope on your weapon. Does it look like what it cost? Guess it just pisses me off to spend a lot of money.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand the free market. But I am looking at a NF scope. I see the outside of it. I see the inside as I look through it. It is a great scope and clear as a bell. I don't think you could get much better. I understand about mark up and making money off of what you sale. They make it. They send it to a dealer. He marks it up and sales it to me. So I guess the mark up on the scope would be around $500. But I would love to know what it really cost to make this scope.
Sure there is R&D. Same goes into a A/C unit as well. But really it is more complex and sales for about the same price. I guess I just need to look it up and see where they get their glass. Then the knobs and what the cost would be. Then I can say no wonder they cost so much. To say I don't understand is just saying you don't know either. You just take it for what it is and pay the price. </div></div>
The presence of great competition in the market tells me all I need to know; I feel no need to research the prices of components and other costs. I am comfortable in my ignorance because I know when those costs drop to where they are an insignificant portion of the selling price the competition will grow.....investors and upstarts are always hot on the trail of any product with a huge profit margin.
Each new competitor will work to gain market share by undercutting the others.....which leads to lower prices. The fact that Premier and Vortex are fairly new or entering into the high-end game tells me there is no monopoly and profits will be normalized.....if they are not already at reasonable levels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand the free market. But I am looking at a NF scope. I see the outside of it. I see the inside as I look through it. It is a great scope and clear as a bell. I don't think you could get much better. I understand about mark up and making money off of what you sale. They make it. They send it to a dealer. He marks it up and sales it to me. So I guess the mark up on the scope would be around $500. But I would love to know what it really cost to make this scope.
Sure there is R&D. Same goes into a A/C unit as well. But really it is more complex and sales for about the same price. I guess I just need to look it up and see where they get their glass. Then the knobs and what the cost would be. Then I can say no wonder they cost so much. To say I don't understand is just saying you don't know either. You just take it for what it is and pay the price. </div></div>
The presence of great competition in the market tells me all I need to know; I feel no need to research the prices of components and other costs. I am comfortable in my ignorance because I know when those costs drop to where they are an insignificant portion of the selling price the competition will grow.....investors and upstarts are always hot on the trail of any product with a huge profit margin.
Each new competitor will work to gain market share by undercutting the others.....which leads to lower prices. The fact that Premier and Vortex are fairly new or entering into the high-end game tells me there is no monopoly and profits will be normalized.....if they are not already at reasonable levels.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the thing is I work hard for the money I make and I like to know I get the most bang for my buck. If shooters are buying something and paying out the ass for it just because the cool guys are buying it the price will stay up. Yes supply and demand. Its just look at your scope on your weapon. Does it look like what it cost? Guess it just pisses me off to spend a lot of money. </div></div>
My most expensive USO resides in $50.00/pair rings, on a Badger base, on a Savage base-model action, in an inexpensive stock, with a homemade bubble-level.
If this is a fashion show I will be laughed off stage for wearing Hush-puppies with Versace.
Each piece of gear does what I expect or I replace it.......and it took many steps to get where I am in the scope department with much dissatisfaction along the way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the thing is I work hard for the money I make and I like to know I get the most bang for my buck. If shooters are buying something and paying out the ass for it just because the cool guys are buying it the price will stay up. Yes supply and demand. Its just look at your scope on your weapon. Does it look like what it cost? Guess it just pisses me off to spend a lot of money. </div></div>
My most expensive USO resides in $50.00/pair rings, on a Badger base, on a Savage base-model action, in an inexpensive stock, with a homemade bubble-level.
If this is a fashion show I will be laughed off stage for wearing Hush-puppies with Versace.
Each piece of gear does what I expect or I replace it.......and it took many steps to get where I am in the scope department with much dissatisfaction along the way.
Re: why does a scope
The presence of great competition in the market tells me all I need to know; I feel no need to research the prices of components and other costs. I am comfortable in my ignorance because I know when those costs drop to where they are an insignificant portion of the selling price the competition will grow.....investors and upstarts are always hot on the trail of any product with a huge profit margin.
Each new competitor will work to gain market share by undercutting the others.....which leads to lower prices. The fact that Premier and Vortex are fairly new or entering into the high-end game tells me there is no monopoly and profits will be normalized.....if they are not already at reasonable levels. [/quote]
Nice post and it makes good sense. The rest of the posters on this thread reminded me why I do not post much on this site. It almost seems like they are sitting around waiting to pounce on someone. Anyway I do enjoy reading the site and learning from it but some of you guys really need to be a little nicer. God bless.
The presence of great competition in the market tells me all I need to know; I feel no need to research the prices of components and other costs. I am comfortable in my ignorance because I know when those costs drop to where they are an insignificant portion of the selling price the competition will grow.....investors and upstarts are always hot on the trail of any product with a huge profit margin.
Each new competitor will work to gain market share by undercutting the others.....which leads to lower prices. The fact that Premier and Vortex are fairly new or entering into the high-end game tells me there is no monopoly and profits will be normalized.....if they are not already at reasonable levels. [/quote]
Nice post and it makes good sense. The rest of the posters on this thread reminded me why I do not post much on this site. It almost seems like they are sitting around waiting to pounce on someone. Anyway I do enjoy reading the site and learning from it but some of you guys really need to be a little nicer. God bless.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a scope cost so much. There is no way it cost $2000 to make a scope. I just don't see it. I wonder what the real cost is for making a NF or a Z. It looks like they make $1500 a scope. Anyone know the answer for this? </div></div>
A place to start
Edited to add - it isn't pouncing on you. If you have the time and the inclination it may prove to be fascinating to you. The only thing more fascinating may be discussions centered around the time value of money.
Good luck
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does a scope cost so much. There is no way it cost $2000 to make a scope. I just don't see it. I wonder what the real cost is for making a NF or a Z. It looks like they make $1500 a scope. Anyone know the answer for this? </div></div>
A place to start
Edited to add - it isn't pouncing on you. If you have the time and the inclination it may prove to be fascinating to you. The only thing more fascinating may be discussions centered around the time value of money.
Good luck
Re: why does a scope
I also purchased my own lathe a few years back so I can do my own barrels. I am kind of a cheap bastard....at some things.
I must admit to getting a bit defensive when it comes to business these days. It seems many think they are all sticking it to us.....insurance, doctors, pharm manufacturers come to mind readily.....I thought you were going there with this post.
You walked into a room full of muzzles in search of targets.
I also purchased my own lathe a few years back so I can do my own barrels. I am kind of a cheap bastard....at some things.
I must admit to getting a bit defensive when it comes to business these days. It seems many think they are all sticking it to us.....insurance, doctors, pharm manufacturers come to mind readily.....I thought you were going there with this post.
You walked into a room full of muzzles in search of targets.
Re: why does a scope
Really I was just asking what goes into a scope to make it cost so much? As I said I get pissed when I have to spend a lot of money. To the guys that made good post, thanks. To rest of you. Well you know.
Really I was just asking what goes into a scope to make it cost so much? As I said I get pissed when I have to spend a lot of money. To the guys that made good post, thanks. To rest of you. Well you know.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really I was just asking what goes into a scope to make it cost so much? As I said I get pissed when I have to spend a lot of money. To the guys that made good post, thanks. To rest of you. Well you know. </div></div>
When you spend alot of money to buy a "toy", you really have no right to get pissed. If you are forced to spend a lot of money on, say, insurance or other shit you don't really want or need, the sure get pissed. But if a toy seems to cost so much that it pisses you off, then maybe you should buy some cheaper toys?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really I was just asking what goes into a scope to make it cost so much? As I said I get pissed when I have to spend a lot of money. To the guys that made good post, thanks. To rest of you. Well you know. </div></div>
When you spend alot of money to buy a "toy", you really have no right to get pissed. If you are forced to spend a lot of money on, say, insurance or other shit you don't really want or need, the sure get pissed. But if a toy seems to cost so much that it pisses you off, then maybe you should buy some cheaper toys?
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As I said I get pissed when I have to spend a lot of money. </div></div>
Precision shooting is really gonna piss you off then!
Actually, my old Savage 10FP with a Bushnell 3200 10XMD got the job done for well under a grand.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As I said I get pissed when I have to spend a lot of money. </div></div>
Precision shooting is really gonna piss you off then!
Actually, my old Savage 10FP with a Bushnell 3200 10XMD got the job done for well under a grand.......
Re: why does a scope
What sometimes boggles my mind is how a Custom 1911 or 2011 can cost as much as a high end custom AR or bolt rifle . When you look at the amount of raw materials and parts that goes into each it certainly doesn't make sense mathematically . Economics is not as simple as cost plus labor = price ..... EVER .
What sometimes boggles my mind is how a Custom 1911 or 2011 can cost as much as a high end custom AR or bolt rifle . When you look at the amount of raw materials and parts that goes into each it certainly doesn't make sense mathematically . Economics is not as simple as cost plus labor = price ..... EVER .
Re: why does a scope
The rest of the posters on this thread reminded me why I do not post much on this site. It almost seems like they are sitting around waiting to pounce on someone. Anyway I do enjoy reading the site and learning from it but some of you guys really need to be a little nicer. God bless.
you come here for guidance and answers.....and you get the answers even when you don't subscribe to the way things are.....
your ongoing education and a thicker hide shall come with time.....and maybe then you can also contribute instead of being a whiner
The rest of the posters on this thread reminded me why I do not post much on this site. It almost seems like they are sitting around waiting to pounce on someone. Anyway I do enjoy reading the site and learning from it but some of you guys really need to be a little nicer. God bless.
you come here for guidance and answers.....and you get the answers even when you don't subscribe to the way things are.....
your ongoing education and a thicker hide shall come with time.....and maybe then you can also contribute instead of being a whiner
Re: why does a scope
The inside of the main body tube is coated with almost 1/2 ounce of Unobtainium. This stuff on the black market goes for almost $3,000 per ounce. That gives you the reasonable cost of materials to be around $1,620 and the average price of the Nightforce at $1,700 means they make the scope for about $80. The US Optics has a longer tube so you have to use more Unobtanium so that is why it is more expensive.
The inside of the main body tube is coated with almost 1/2 ounce of Unobtainium. This stuff on the black market goes for almost $3,000 per ounce. That gives you the reasonable cost of materials to be around $1,620 and the average price of the Nightforce at $1,700 means they make the scope for about $80. The US Optics has a longer tube so you have to use more Unobtanium so that is why it is more expensive.
Re: why does a scope
You also have to remember they're producing them not because they LIKE them but because they WANT TO MAKE MONEY.It's a trade off between cost, value,profit, and what the market will bear.If nobody purchased them it wouldn't work, but obviously they're supplying something people want at a price that they WILL PAY.Pretty much like any business...
You also have to remember they're producing them not because they LIKE them but because they WANT TO MAKE MONEY.It's a trade off between cost, value,profit, and what the market will bear.If nobody purchased them it wouldn't work, but obviously they're supplying something people want at a price that they WILL PAY.Pretty much like any business...
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One guy sets the price point and others follow. No relationship to cost/return in this market.
Want cheap scopes? No one buys one for 12 months and then you can have $800.00 tactical scopes again.
Keep buying at current levels and you get what you get. </div></div>
Yeah...maybe. But then again, there may be no more tactical scopes offered. If there were, the quality would be nothing close to what we enjoy now.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One guy sets the price point and others follow. No relationship to cost/return in this market.
Want cheap scopes? No one buys one for 12 months and then you can have $800.00 tactical scopes again.
Keep buying at current levels and you get what you get. </div></div>
Yeah...maybe. But then again, there may be no more tactical scopes offered. If there were, the quality would be nothing close to what we enjoy now.
Re: why does a scope
Business abhors a vaccuum.
Now if a guy has a product and has a market for that product, then by all means make money and stay in business.
The entire firearms industry before 911 was only something in the order of 4.7 billion, which by industry standards for the rest of the economy is a joke.
It's not much more than a Mom and Pop business.
Scopes are a low volume, niche market item and as such will have a selling price far higher in proportion than their cost to manufacture than would other items. As an example, find a way for S&B to make 10,000 units per year and the purchase price would not be at all what it is now.
Rather a company says we need XXX.XX in revenue to stay in business and XXX.XX more to turn a profit, and only they ge to determine what's a"reasonable" profit, then that number of dollars divided by production capacity equals the selling price of the product.
If a guy wants to make a million bucks a year in margin then more power to him, I'm all for it. If you provide the market he'll achieve the goal.
Business abhors a vaccuum.
Now if a guy has a product and has a market for that product, then by all means make money and stay in business.
The entire firearms industry before 911 was only something in the order of 4.7 billion, which by industry standards for the rest of the economy is a joke.
It's not much more than a Mom and Pop business.
Scopes are a low volume, niche market item and as such will have a selling price far higher in proportion than their cost to manufacture than would other items. As an example, find a way for S&B to make 10,000 units per year and the purchase price would not be at all what it is now.
Rather a company says we need XXX.XX in revenue to stay in business and XXX.XX more to turn a profit, and only they ge to determine what's a"reasonable" profit, then that number of dollars divided by production capacity equals the selling price of the product.
If a guy wants to make a million bucks a year in margin then more power to him, I'm all for it. If you provide the market he'll achieve the goal.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lots here have met with the very people that put the finest gear in our hands that we take to the field and operate with........whole companies and the families upon families that are supported by those said companies work and promote and excel to bring to market the best they can.
...i can only say that YOU have not been 'around the horn'...otherwise you would know to realize what makes the world go round..... </div></div>
Not at all trying to be a smart ass but I dont know that you can use that as a reason for high end scopes being so much more expensive. All of that (support of families, other companys, etc) applies to BSA and Trashco too. Also, as we ALL know, companies like USO and NF are 100% made in the USA so they should'nt have any of the added cost of importing, RIGHT? I understand just the quality of materials will add to the high end production cost but the more interesting question to me would be, how much more does it cost to produce a USO than it does a BSA? Just my, probably not so interesting, thoughts on the subject.
okie
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lots here have met with the very people that put the finest gear in our hands that we take to the field and operate with........whole companies and the families upon families that are supported by those said companies work and promote and excel to bring to market the best they can.
...i can only say that YOU have not been 'around the horn'...otherwise you would know to realize what makes the world go round..... </div></div>
Not at all trying to be a smart ass but I dont know that you can use that as a reason for high end scopes being so much more expensive. All of that (support of families, other companys, etc) applies to BSA and Trashco too. Also, as we ALL know, companies like USO and NF are 100% made in the USA so they should'nt have any of the added cost of importing, RIGHT? I understand just the quality of materials will add to the high end production cost but the more interesting question to me would be, how much more does it cost to produce a USO than it does a BSA? Just my, probably not so interesting, thoughts on the subject.
okie
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Business abhors a vaccuum.
Now if a guy has a product and has a market for that product, then by all means make money and stay in business.
The entire firearms industry before 911 was only something in the order of 4.7 billion, which by industry standards for the rest of the economy is a joke.
It's not much more than a Mom and Pop business.
Scopes are a low volume, niche market item and as such will have a selling price far higher in proportion than their cost to manufacture than would other items. As an example, find a way for S&B to make 10,000 units per year and the purchase price would not be at all what it is now.
Rather a company says we need XXX.XX in revenue to stay in business and XXX.XX more to turn a profit, and only they ge to determine what's a"reasonable" profit, then that number of dollars divided by production capacity equals the selling price of the product.
If a guy wants to make a million bucks a year in margin then more power to him, I'm all for it. If you provide the market he'll achieve the goal. </div></div>
short version of the above:
why does diesel cost more than unleaded gasoline when deisel is the more unrefined/cheaper to produce fuel?
because they dont make as much of it...jet fuel too.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Business abhors a vaccuum.
Now if a guy has a product and has a market for that product, then by all means make money and stay in business.
The entire firearms industry before 911 was only something in the order of 4.7 billion, which by industry standards for the rest of the economy is a joke.
It's not much more than a Mom and Pop business.
Scopes are a low volume, niche market item and as such will have a selling price far higher in proportion than their cost to manufacture than would other items. As an example, find a way for S&B to make 10,000 units per year and the purchase price would not be at all what it is now.
Rather a company says we need XXX.XX in revenue to stay in business and XXX.XX more to turn a profit, and only they ge to determine what's a"reasonable" profit, then that number of dollars divided by production capacity equals the selling price of the product.
If a guy wants to make a million bucks a year in margin then more power to him, I'm all for it. If you provide the market he'll achieve the goal. </div></div>
short version of the above:
why does diesel cost more than unleaded gasoline when deisel is the more unrefined/cheaper to produce fuel?
because they dont make as much of it...jet fuel too.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #33CCFF">The rest of the posters on this thread reminded me why I do not post much on this site. It almost seems like they are sitting around waiting to pounce on someone. Anyway I do enjoy reading the site and learning from it but some of you guys really need to be a little nicer. God bless.</span>
you come here for guidance and answers.....and you get the answers even when you don't subscribe to the way things are.....
your ongoing education and a thicker hide shall come with time.....and maybe then you can also contribute instead of being a whiner </div></div>
Since there were no quotes I read the first few sentences as if written by BR and thought the second sign of the Apocalypse in one day had occured on the 'hide (the first today being a link to an Oprah clip)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #33CCFF">The rest of the posters on this thread reminded me why I do not post much on this site. It almost seems like they are sitting around waiting to pounce on someone. Anyway I do enjoy reading the site and learning from it but some of you guys really need to be a little nicer. God bless.</span>
you come here for guidance and answers.....and you get the answers even when you don't subscribe to the way things are.....
your ongoing education and a thicker hide shall come with time.....and maybe then you can also contribute instead of being a whiner </div></div>
Since there were no quotes I read the first few sentences as if written by BR and thought the second sign of the Apocalypse in one day had occured on the 'hide (the first today being a link to an Oprah clip)
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the thing is I work hard for the money I make and I like to know I get the most bang for my buck. If shooters are buying something and paying out the ass for it just because the cool guys are buying it the price will stay up. Yes supply and demand. Its just look at your scope on your weapon. Does it look like what it cost? Guess it just pisses me off to spend a lot of money. </div></div>
Winfree,
I think there are alot of us here that work hard for the money we are paid. I am with you. I have a theory, if you buy shit it will always be sht. No matter what you do to it, bolt on to it or whatever it is still shit. NOW, if you buy the very best that you can afford it will always be quality and there is nothing you can do to it to make it anything less. I also do not discount buying top of the line used stuff a lot of good buys to be had and if it is quality the maker will take care of any issues.
Best of luck to you.
all the best.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the thing is I work hard for the money I make and I like to know I get the most bang for my buck. If shooters are buying something and paying out the ass for it just because the cool guys are buying it the price will stay up. Yes supply and demand. Its just look at your scope on your weapon. Does it look like what it cost? Guess it just pisses me off to spend a lot of money. </div></div>
Winfree,
I think there are alot of us here that work hard for the money we are paid. I am with you. I have a theory, if you buy shit it will always be sht. No matter what you do to it, bolt on to it or whatever it is still shit. NOW, if you buy the very best that you can afford it will always be quality and there is nothing you can do to it to make it anything less. I also do not discount buying top of the line used stuff a lot of good buys to be had and if it is quality the maker will take care of any issues.
Best of luck to you.
all the best.
Re: why does a scope
There are plenty of gun forums where everyone talks about how great their NC-Star scopes are. Namely sites that aren't that serious about shooting.
I mean there are car forums where people talk about changing the oil in their minivans and there are other sites where they talk about building engines that can take 1000 shot nitrous. It would be ridiculous to get on there and ask what the difference between a junkyard pulled engine and a 500 ci racing crate motor is, wouldn't it?
There are plenty of gun forums where everyone talks about how great their NC-Star scopes are. Namely sites that aren't that serious about shooting.
I mean there are car forums where people talk about changing the oil in their minivans and there are other sites where they talk about building engines that can take 1000 shot nitrous. It would be ridiculous to get on there and ask what the difference between a junkyard pulled engine and a 500 ci racing crate motor is, wouldn't it?
Re: why does a scope
Because I don't post much you think I am a new shooter? I shoot twice a month out to 1000y's and have been doing this for a while. I shoot a moa at that distance with no trouble. Most month I go through 200 rounds at distance of 400 to 1000y. Then another 500 with the m4 and about the same or more in the glock. So what makes you a shooter?
As far as LR shooting I have been shooting a Remington 700 5r with a harris bi-pod and a NF 20moa base and med rings topped with a Wotac scope that has done great btw. My goal has been to top it off with the NF scope. Its on the way. I ask a question of why it cost so much and now I am a whiner and don't know how the market works and all other kinds of BS. All the answer had to be was because they put this in the scope that other companies don't use. Or they use this glass that is so much better that you have to pay out the ass for it. But I guess it is always easy to shoot someone down instead of answer a simple question.
Once again thanks for the good answers that some of you posted and make it great to read this forum. I do enjoy learning from you.
Because I don't post much you think I am a new shooter? I shoot twice a month out to 1000y's and have been doing this for a while. I shoot a moa at that distance with no trouble. Most month I go through 200 rounds at distance of 400 to 1000y. Then another 500 with the m4 and about the same or more in the glock. So what makes you a shooter?
As far as LR shooting I have been shooting a Remington 700 5r with a harris bi-pod and a NF 20moa base and med rings topped with a Wotac scope that has done great btw. My goal has been to top it off with the NF scope. Its on the way. I ask a question of why it cost so much and now I am a whiner and don't know how the market works and all other kinds of BS. All the answer had to be was because they put this in the scope that other companies don't use. Or they use this glass that is so much better that you have to pay out the ass for it. But I guess it is always easy to shoot someone down instead of answer a simple question.
Once again thanks for the good answers that some of you posted and make it great to read this forum. I do enjoy learning from you.
Re: why does a scope
If you really ask yourself why you want a NF instead of your WOTac, then you have your answer, pretty simple.
If you really ask yourself why you want a NF instead of your WOTac, then you have your answer, pretty simple.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because I don't post much you think I am a new shooter? I shoot twice a month out to 1000y's and have been doing this for a while. I shoot a moa at that distance with no trouble. Most month I go through 200 rounds at distance of 400 to 1000y. Then another 500 with the m4 and about the same or more in the glock. So what makes you a shooter?
As far as LR shooting I have been shooting a Remington 700 5r with a harris bi-pod and a NF 20moa base and med rings topped with a Wotac scope that has done great btw. My goal has been to top it off with the NF scope. Its on the way. I ask a question of why it cost so much and now I am a whiner and don't know how the market works and all other kinds of BS. All the answer had to be was because they put this in the scope that other companies don't use. Or they use this glass that is so much better that you have to pay out the ass for it. But I guess it is always easy to shoot someone down instead of answer a simple question.
Once again thanks for the good answers that some of you posted and make it great to read this forum. I do enjoy learning from you. </div></div>
Wow, twice a month out to 1000 yards....blah, blah, blah. Their are those of us on this forum who do that in the better part of a week. You're in the wrong place to impress. When you ask for answers and get them, say thank you. Pipe down and learn!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because I don't post much you think I am a new shooter? I shoot twice a month out to 1000y's and have been doing this for a while. I shoot a moa at that distance with no trouble. Most month I go through 200 rounds at distance of 400 to 1000y. Then another 500 with the m4 and about the same or more in the glock. So what makes you a shooter?
As far as LR shooting I have been shooting a Remington 700 5r with a harris bi-pod and a NF 20moa base and med rings topped with a Wotac scope that has done great btw. My goal has been to top it off with the NF scope. Its on the way. I ask a question of why it cost so much and now I am a whiner and don't know how the market works and all other kinds of BS. All the answer had to be was because they put this in the scope that other companies don't use. Or they use this glass that is so much better that you have to pay out the ass for it. But I guess it is always easy to shoot someone down instead of answer a simple question.
Once again thanks for the good answers that some of you posted and make it great to read this forum. I do enjoy learning from you. </div></div>
Wow, twice a month out to 1000 yards....blah, blah, blah. Their are those of us on this forum who do that in the better part of a week. You're in the wrong place to impress. When you ask for answers and get them, say thank you. Pipe down and learn!
Re: why does a scope
He's at FtBragg, but shoots a Glock..........must be serious dark ops type.
He's at FtBragg, but shoots a Glock..........must be serious dark ops type.
Re: why does a scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree this thread</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because I don't post much you think I am a new shooter? I shoot twice a month out to 1000y's and have been doing this for a while. <span style="font-weight: bold">I shoot a moa at that distance with no trouble. </span></div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree 10days ago different thread</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot out to 1000y with a remington 308 5r. I was shooting store bought fed 180. They were sub sonic by the time they hit the target but I was still able to hit 6x with them. Learned my lesson to get better ammo before my next outing. </div></div>
Maybe he means he was able to clean the target with a 6X count with the store boughts that had gone transonic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree this thread</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because I don't post much you think I am a new shooter? I shoot twice a month out to 1000y's and have been doing this for a while. <span style="font-weight: bold">I shoot a moa at that distance with no trouble. </span></div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winfree 10days ago different thread</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot out to 1000y with a remington 308 5r. I was shooting store bought fed 180. They were sub sonic by the time they hit the target but I was still able to hit 6x with them. Learned my lesson to get better ammo before my next outing. </div></div>
Maybe he means he was able to clean the target with a 6X count with the store boughts that had gone transonic.
Re: why does a scope
Alright, why don't you point us to another scope that is similar in almost every way possible that sells for even $500 less and lets see where you're coming from. Have you ever run your own business? There are expenses to running a business. Those expenses factor in to final cost of a product. If you can give me a detailed breakdown and show us how an NF scope should only cost $500+ less we can resume this conversation.
Alright, why don't you point us to another scope that is similar in almost every way possible that sells for even $500 less and lets see where you're coming from. Have you ever run your own business? There are expenses to running a business. Those expenses factor in to final cost of a product. If you can give me a detailed breakdown and show us how an NF scope should only cost $500+ less we can resume this conversation.
Re: why does a scope
yugo <> bently
pinto <> farri
tasco <> nightforce
save up and shut up or take your $400 and get what is available for $400 moaning and pissin do little for open markets.
crap i'm out of paper towels.... Hey for just $300 I can hook you up
yugo <> bently
pinto <> farri
tasco <> nightforce
save up and shut up or take your $400 and get what is available for $400 moaning and pissin do little for open markets.
crap i'm out of paper towels.... Hey for just $300 I can hook you up
Re: why does a scope
Wow, I didnt think the OP was all that bad but everyone sure is jumping on the "trash his ass" wagon.
Anyway, Its pretty obvious why a Farrari cost more to build than a Pinto. From tires (which are at lest 10 times higher on the Far.) to the tech. in the brakeing system, drivetran, metalurgy and tighter tollerances in an engine thats built to make 600 hp and turn those extreem rpms to the high quality interiors, and fit and finish of everything. Ever really looked at the paint on a Farrari or Lambo? The difference isnt quite as obvious on scopes. Like I said before, not trying to be a smart ass but I'd really like to see some "facts" on why and how a NF is 5 times more expencive to produce than what he's talking about. And please, somthing besides "its clearer".
okie
Wow, I didnt think the OP was all that bad but everyone sure is jumping on the "trash his ass" wagon.
Anyway, Its pretty obvious why a Farrari cost more to build than a Pinto. From tires (which are at lest 10 times higher on the Far.) to the tech. in the brakeing system, drivetran, metalurgy and tighter tollerances in an engine thats built to make 600 hp and turn those extreem rpms to the high quality interiors, and fit and finish of everything. Ever really looked at the paint on a Farrari or Lambo? The difference isnt quite as obvious on scopes. Like I said before, not trying to be a smart ass but I'd really like to see some "facts" on why and how a NF is 5 times more expencive to produce than what he's talking about. And please, somthing besides "its clearer".
okie
Re: why does a scope
Hey......uhhhh....WINFREE........LL answered your question about 10 miles back on this thread......any particular reason for bein a drama queen???? Just sayin though....... He answered your question and you're still on the war-path....Im with SobrBiker on the previos post.....VERY interesting being that you "shoot so much"
Hey......uhhhh....WINFREE........LL answered your question about 10 miles back on this thread......any particular reason for bein a drama queen???? Just sayin though....... He answered your question and you're still on the war-path....Im with SobrBiker on the previos post.....VERY interesting being that you "shoot so much"
