I am thinking of using a Select Match Shilen or Krieger for my new build. Everyone seems to look at Shilen as a lesser barrel and I've noticed they seem to bring less money when the gun is sold. Why is that so? I noticed that the select match Shilen has tighter tolerances than the Krieger ( can't find specs on any other barrel makers). I know they are rifled different so that may be compareing apples to oranges. What is all the dislike about Shilen about?
Gunsmithing Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
- Thread starter summitsitter
- Start date
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
They're not cut rifled, although, I share your sentiment. I shoot Shilens and they're great barrels. A Kreiger will demand a higher price on the rifle sale for 2 simple reasons. "Cool" factor of the name and the extremely simple fact that Kreigers cost more to begin with.
If Shilen's were such a lousy barrel nobody in the BR community would shoot them, let alone win with them.
For a tactical rifle that's expected to shoot 1/4-1/2MOA I laugh when people tell me a Shilen won't do the trick, yet guys with BR rifles shooting in the teens or better win with them regularly.
I have an Adams and Bennett on a 30-06 that will reproduce 3/4 MOA groups with startling frequency at 400y. It's also built on a military 98 Mauser action, which we all know don't shoot either. I bought it in college, when it's time for a new barrel I'll stick a Shilen on it, but until that happens, the %80 A&B is doing a fine job.
Bottom line is this: If you really want to run a specific barrel maker go for it, if your 'smith has a good relationship with a specific maker like Douglas, Shilen, Hart, Kreiger, Brux, Bartlein then trust the guy to build a good rifle.
If neither of those situations are at hand and you can have a Shilen for $100 cheaper, take it and shoot the thing. Get another one, have it installed, and shoot that too.
EDIT: Upon the advice of a gunsmith here that I hold in very high regard, he said I should have made my statement a little more simple. <span style="font-style: italic">"don't let your gunsmith ruin your barrel from any maker"</span>
That seems to be much more common occurrence than having a properly installed barrel that doesn't shoot.
They're not cut rifled, although, I share your sentiment. I shoot Shilens and they're great barrels. A Kreiger will demand a higher price on the rifle sale for 2 simple reasons. "Cool" factor of the name and the extremely simple fact that Kreigers cost more to begin with.
If Shilen's were such a lousy barrel nobody in the BR community would shoot them, let alone win with them.
For a tactical rifle that's expected to shoot 1/4-1/2MOA I laugh when people tell me a Shilen won't do the trick, yet guys with BR rifles shooting in the teens or better win with them regularly.
I have an Adams and Bennett on a 30-06 that will reproduce 3/4 MOA groups with startling frequency at 400y. It's also built on a military 98 Mauser action, which we all know don't shoot either. I bought it in college, when it's time for a new barrel I'll stick a Shilen on it, but until that happens, the %80 A&B is doing a fine job.
Bottom line is this: If you really want to run a specific barrel maker go for it, if your 'smith has a good relationship with a specific maker like Douglas, Shilen, Hart, Kreiger, Brux, Bartlein then trust the guy to build a good rifle.
If neither of those situations are at hand and you can have a Shilen for $100 cheaper, take it and shoot the thing. Get another one, have it installed, and shoot that too.
EDIT: Upon the advice of a gunsmith here that I hold in very high regard, he said I should have made my statement a little more simple. <span style="font-style: italic">"don't let your gunsmith ruin your barrel from any maker"</span>
That seems to be much more common occurrence than having a properly installed barrel that doesn't shoot.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
I've got rifles with Krieger, Bartlein, Douglas, and Shilen, and of course factory barrels. Of the after market, "custom" barrels I can't tell much difference. They all clean up easier than my factory barrels, but none easier than the other custom. They all shoot better than I can. As far as wear I'm not sure, haven't worn one out yet.
I've got rifles with Krieger, Bartlein, Douglas, and Shilen, and of course factory barrels. Of the after market, "custom" barrels I can't tell much difference. They all clean up easier than my factory barrels, but none easier than the other custom. They all shoot better than I can. As far as wear I'm not sure, haven't worn one out yet.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
I have had a really nice Shilen barrel as well.......
(300WM that shot very well)
also, look here....
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1686864&page=1
I have had a really nice Shilen barrel as well.......
(300WM that shot very well)
also, look here....
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1686864&page=1
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
+1 bohem statement.
Watch out for those Mausers and Enfields they can sneak up on you.
+1 bohem statement.
Watch out for those Mausers and Enfields they can sneak up on you.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
We've been installing Shilen barrels on our custom rifles for over 10 years. Never had a questionable barrel and Shilen's customer service is excellent. We guarantee sub 1/2 MOA with factory match ammo so the barrel has to do it's job.
We recommend Shilen Select Match barrels to our clients if they do not have a barrel preference.
I don't think you will regret using a Shilen barrel!
Howard M
We've been installing Shilen barrels on our custom rifles for over 10 years. Never had a questionable barrel and Shilen's customer service is excellent. We guarantee sub 1/2 MOA with factory match ammo so the barrel has to do it's job.
We recommend Shilen Select Match barrels to our clients if they do not have a barrel preference.
I don't think you will regret using a Shilen barrel!
Howard M
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
My Shilen Chrome Moly barrels are as bad or worse than my average factory barrels from Ruger, Winchester, Marlin, Remington, Savage, etc.
The Shilen Stainless Select Match barrels are as good or better than any of my barrels from Krieger, Lilja, Hart, Pac-Nor, Lothar Walther, Douglas, etc.
Shilen is not going to sell me barrels at a discount, so I have to buy through a reseller. The resellers do not stock Shilen Chrome Moly barrels that were lapped at the factory. So I don't buy Shilen Chrome Moly barrels any more. I buy Lothar Walther Chrome Moly barrels.
But I am still buying Shilen Stainless barrels, because they are all lapped at the factory.
I don't buy much from Krieger, Lilja, or Hart because they cost me more than Shilen and are not better than Shilen.
I don't buy much from Douglas because they are not lapped at the factory.
I am about to order a bunch more Shilen Stainless barrels for my personal 2010 projects.
My Shilen Chrome Moly barrels are as bad or worse than my average factory barrels from Ruger, Winchester, Marlin, Remington, Savage, etc.
The Shilen Stainless Select Match barrels are as good or better than any of my barrels from Krieger, Lilja, Hart, Pac-Nor, Lothar Walther, Douglas, etc.
Shilen is not going to sell me barrels at a discount, so I have to buy through a reseller. The resellers do not stock Shilen Chrome Moly barrels that were lapped at the factory. So I don't buy Shilen Chrome Moly barrels any more. I buy Lothar Walther Chrome Moly barrels.
But I am still buying Shilen Stainless barrels, because they are all lapped at the factory.
I don't buy much from Krieger, Lilja, or Hart because they cost me more than Shilen and are not better than Shilen.
I don't buy much from Douglas because they are not lapped at the factory.
I am about to order a bunch more Shilen Stainless barrels for my personal 2010 projects.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
I think that kreiger are higher for the same reason the badger prices jumped in the last few years. Bragging rights by having military contracts.
Shilen's are really great barrels and the company does a lot to support gunsmithing schools as well.
I think that kreiger are higher for the same reason the badger prices jumped in the last few years. Bragging rights by having military contracts.
Shilen's are really great barrels and the company does a lot to support gunsmithing schools as well.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
I shoot a Shilen chromoly match barrel and it's a great barrel. It was not lapped at the factory and I did notice that it was a bit rough at first and picked up a fair amount of copper fouling, but it smoothed out after about 300 rounds and has really settled in nicely.
I think if you get the lapped barrel it would not need to settle in that way.
I shoot a Shilen chromoly match barrel and it's a great barrel. It was not lapped at the factory and I did notice that it was a bit rough at first and picked up a fair amount of copper fouling, but it smoothed out after about 300 rounds and has really settled in nicely.
I think if you get the lapped barrel it would not need to settle in that way.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
Cut rifled barrels cost more because the single point cut process takes more time. Time equals money. Button rifled barrels (Shilen) don't take the same amount of time to manufacture.
There are arguments to be made either way as far as cut or buttoned. Simple fact is both shoot, both have their share of records. I have had both and continue to shoot Benchmark button rifled barrels. .02
Cut rifled barrels cost more because the single point cut process takes more time. Time equals money. Button rifled barrels (Shilen) don't take the same amount of time to manufacture.
There are arguments to be made either way as far as cut or buttoned. Simple fact is both shoot, both have their share of records. I have had both and continue to shoot Benchmark button rifled barrels. .02
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
I have a Shilen select match on my 280 AI, it does pretty good I have no complaints especially since it was free. It cleans pretty easy and while I have not taken it to 1k yet, it shows alot of life at 500 with 140's, I plan on throwing some heavier pills at the 1k mark.
I have a Shilen select match on my 280 AI, it does pretty good I have no complaints especially since it was free. It cleans pretty easy and while I have not taken it to 1k yet, it shows alot of life at 500 with 140's, I plan on throwing some heavier pills at the 1k mark.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
I have a Shilen Stainless on my .223AI. Its a hammer, and cleans with one or two patches. No complaints.
I have a Shilen Stainless on my .223AI. Its a hammer, and cleans with one or two patches. No complaints.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
I've got a Shilen Select Match Stainless on my .308. I don't have 1000 rounds down the pipe and shot TJ's qual course (800 yds) for his advanced course at Tiger Valley and shot a 195 out of 200. Everyone has pros and cons and there is always a name or fad that people migrate to.
I've got a Shilen Select Match Stainless on my .308. I don't have 1000 rounds down the pipe and shot TJ's qual course (800 yds) for his advanced course at Tiger Valley and shot a 195 out of 200. Everyone has pros and cons and there is always a name or fad that people migrate to.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
The Select Match used to be the "only" barrel mentioned where I live. No one had a complaint, and most still don't. The locals still have varmint rifles chambered by Shilen. One guy had a Ruger #1 rebarreled by them in .220 Swift and it was a HAMMER- period.
I have/had several rifles built with Shilens. Good stuff.
The Select Match used to be the "only" barrel mentioned where I live. No one had a complaint, and most still don't. The locals still have varmint rifles chambered by Shilen. One guy had a Ruger #1 rebarreled by them in .220 Swift and it was a HAMMER- period.
I have/had several rifles built with Shilens. Good stuff.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
My only real problem with shilen is like Clark said: "Shilen is not going to sell me barrels at a discount, so I have to buy through a reseller". Whereas buying from Benchmark, Brux, Bartlen, kreiger etc, I can call up and talk to the man about MY barrel. the larger more established companies are more difficult to work with on small orders like a barrel or two a year (or years). They all shoot once you hit a certain level, but that customer interaction is what I prefer. If you're having your smith make the order, let them order from who they prefer (so long as that company has the options you want). You're not likely to notice a difference.
My only real problem with shilen is like Clark said: "Shilen is not going to sell me barrels at a discount, so I have to buy through a reseller". Whereas buying from Benchmark, Brux, Bartlen, kreiger etc, I can call up and talk to the man about MY barrel. the larger more established companies are more difficult to work with on small orders like a barrel or two a year (or years). They all shoot once you hit a certain level, but that customer interaction is what I prefer. If you're having your smith make the order, let them order from who they prefer (so long as that company has the options you want). You're not likely to notice a difference.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
I had one that had a large void when I turned it down and received very poor customer service. It was a clear defect, no question of mistake by builder. I had purchased over 10 barrels from them and that was it for me. Best thing that ever happened though. I started using Kriegers and no problem for 20 years and over 50 barrels. I also have had good results with Bartlien and Hart and Schneider. Due to expense of barreling a rifle, I will not accept as a gift any barrel but the above mentioned. I am sure many are fine, but I have no time to find out. I want a shooter every time. No excuses. I have only had one Hart, but it was as good as the best. Amazing barrel. Your button rifled barrels will clean faster/easier that a cut rifled barrel, IMO.
I had one that had a large void when I turned it down and received very poor customer service. It was a clear defect, no question of mistake by builder. I had purchased over 10 barrels from them and that was it for me. Best thing that ever happened though. I started using Kriegers and no problem for 20 years and over 50 barrels. I also have had good results with Bartlien and Hart and Schneider. Due to expense of barreling a rifle, I will not accept as a gift any barrel but the above mentioned. I am sure many are fine, but I have no time to find out. I want a shooter every time. No excuses. I have only had one Hart, but it was as good as the best. Amazing barrel. Your button rifled barrels will clean faster/easier that a cut rifled barrel, IMO.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They're not cut rifled, although, I share your sentiment. I shoot Shilens and they're great barrels. A Kreiger will demand a higher price on the rifle sale for 2 simple reasons. "Cool" factor of the name and the extremely simple fact that Kreigers cost more to begin with.
If Shilen's were such a lousy barrel nobody in the BR community would shoot them, let alone win with them.
For a tactical rifle that's expected to shoot 1/4-1/2MOA I laugh when people tell me a Shilen won't do the trick, yet guys with BR rifles shooting in the teens or better win with them regularly.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I have an Adams and Bennett on a 30-06 that will reproduce 3/4 MOA groups with startling frequency at 400y. It's also built on a military 98 Mauser action</span>, which we all know don't shoot either. I bought it in college, when it's time for a new barrel I'll stick a Shilen on it, but until that happens, the %80 A&B is doing a fine job.
Bottom line is this: If you really want to run a specific barrel maker go for it, if your 'smith has a good relationship with a specific maker like Douglas, Shilen, Hart, Kreiger, Brux, Bartlein then trust the guy to build a good rifle.
If neither of those situations are at hand and you can have a Shilen for $100 cheaper, take it and shoot the thing. Get another one, have it installed, and shoot that too.
EDIT: Upon the advice of a gunsmith here that I hold in very high regard, he said I should have made my statement a little more simple. <span style="font-style: italic">"don't let your gunsmith ruin your barrel from any maker"</span>
That seems to be much more common occurrence than having a properly installed barrel that doesn't shoot. </div></div>
I found an A&B stainless #5 in 7-08 for my M98 build (for $99.00), only to find out later that it's a Shilen. Funny, too, 'cause when I got it, I thought it looked awful nice for a "cheap" barrel.
Might be the same for you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They're not cut rifled, although, I share your sentiment. I shoot Shilens and they're great barrels. A Kreiger will demand a higher price on the rifle sale for 2 simple reasons. "Cool" factor of the name and the extremely simple fact that Kreigers cost more to begin with.
If Shilen's were such a lousy barrel nobody in the BR community would shoot them, let alone win with them.
For a tactical rifle that's expected to shoot 1/4-1/2MOA I laugh when people tell me a Shilen won't do the trick, yet guys with BR rifles shooting in the teens or better win with them regularly.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I have an Adams and Bennett on a 30-06 that will reproduce 3/4 MOA groups with startling frequency at 400y. It's also built on a military 98 Mauser action</span>, which we all know don't shoot either. I bought it in college, when it's time for a new barrel I'll stick a Shilen on it, but until that happens, the %80 A&B is doing a fine job.
Bottom line is this: If you really want to run a specific barrel maker go for it, if your 'smith has a good relationship with a specific maker like Douglas, Shilen, Hart, Kreiger, Brux, Bartlein then trust the guy to build a good rifle.
If neither of those situations are at hand and you can have a Shilen for $100 cheaper, take it and shoot the thing. Get another one, have it installed, and shoot that too.
EDIT: Upon the advice of a gunsmith here that I hold in very high regard, he said I should have made my statement a little more simple. <span style="font-style: italic">"don't let your gunsmith ruin your barrel from any maker"</span>
That seems to be much more common occurrence than having a properly installed barrel that doesn't shoot. </div></div>
I found an A&B stainless #5 in 7-08 for my M98 build (for $99.00), only to find out later that it's a Shilen. Funny, too, 'cause when I got it, I thought it looked awful nice for a "cheap" barrel.
Might be the same for you.
Re: Why does everybody down Shilen Barrels
'...A Kreiger will demand a higher price on the rifle sale for 2 simple reasons. "Cool" factor of the name and the extremely simple fact that Kreigers cost more to begin with..."
3rd reason is that they have been on winning rifles for decades at places like Camp Perry, as have some others.
Good luck
Jerry
'...A Kreiger will demand a higher price on the rifle sale for 2 simple reasons. "Cool" factor of the name and the extremely simple fact that Kreigers cost more to begin with..."
3rd reason is that they have been on winning rifles for decades at places like Camp Perry, as have some others.
Good luck
Jerry
