Why don’t these younger generations pull themselves up by the boot straps like I did
- Thread starter BurtG
- Start date
Sell ass.You act like I have extra income to invest
Yeah, they have already innovated a solution for that.
But in all seriousness, the old time construction techniques are becoming more viable because they are actually faster and can be cheaper due to the cost of labor.
Home size is not increasing as much as one may perceive it to be. The Median new home in 2025 is 2190sqft, a 22% increase of the 1660 sqft home. However, it is exceedingly unlikely that 25-34 year olds are buying new construction homes.
The current average home size 1800 sqft, a 9.2% increase over 1986, and is actually decreasing.
You do make some other good and valid points, however I am choosing not to address them until and unless I can decouple them from any generational argument.
My posts in this thread have stuck to facts and data, and I have not yet "blamed" any person, or generations, of persons for the current living affordability problems. I have simply stated that due to factors outside of their control, certain generations enjoyed greater benefits than those following them.
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My situation as a late year (1962 boomer), was I got married in 1982. Twelve years later I gave my ex-wife half and bought my house again. Being a slow learner. Re-married in 1996 . Twelve years later gave up half of my assets and re-bought my house.
Still I’m fortunate enough to be in a position to retire any time I want.
Still I’m fortunate enough to be in a position to retire any time I want.
Contrarian view:
To a degree, it actually benefits some. Those that bought or refinanced homes 5 years ago at 2.79% in many areas have seen home values increase 5-6% on average annually. Leveraged investment. That said, if you're not in the game, it's bad as you can't save fast enough.
Got money in the market, you're doing fine.
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Have money in CD's or annuities? Don't do that.
My grandfather purchased a home in 1983 for $65k. The price was roughly 6x the median individual income. A 20% down payment would be just over 1 year of the median annual income.
Today, Zillow's estimate on that home value is $1.4m. That price is about 31x the median individual income. A 20% down payment represents 6 years of the median annual income. It is the same property, no additions or anything.
To afford it at a 36% DTI you would need to make $320k a year, on top of a $280k down payment. That is what it would take to afford the same home my grandfather bought as a baker working at a grocery store in 1983. The PITI if you put $280k down would be over $8,500 a month.
Most boomers I know would not have the income necessary to buy their homes at todays prices/interest rates/property taxes. The delusion that "kids these days just don't want to work" ignores that the American dream available to their generation on a wide scale is shrinking dramatically. The reality is that a small percent of the highest earners of the current generation will enjoy the type of home their predecessors could afford by skipping coffee and keeping the old car a few extra years, unless they inherit it or the housing market crashes again.
Today, Zillow's estimate on that home value is $1.4m. That price is about 31x the median individual income. A 20% down payment represents 6 years of the median annual income. It is the same property, no additions or anything.
To afford it at a 36% DTI you would need to make $320k a year, on top of a $280k down payment. That is what it would take to afford the same home my grandfather bought as a baker working at a grocery store in 1983. The PITI if you put $280k down would be over $8,500 a month.
Most boomers I know would not have the income necessary to buy their homes at todays prices/interest rates/property taxes. The delusion that "kids these days just don't want to work" ignores that the American dream available to their generation on a wide scale is shrinking dramatically. The reality is that a small percent of the highest earners of the current generation will enjoy the type of home their predecessors could afford by skipping coffee and keeping the old car a few extra years, unless they inherit it or the housing market crashes again.
With the kick to the face on the H1b visa system, we should see some major changes in Americans-first now in the jobs market.
One problem we’ve seen is venture capitalists who come in, pump-and-dump companies with foreign labor at reduced costs, and increased pricing on services/goods to inflate their run before they move on to the next company. Board members might like it for their own portfolios, but it has been really bad for society.
One concern among realtors and would-be buyers is that another inflationary trend will kick-off with interest rates being lowered, since we’re still suffering from inventory scarcity at-scale. There are a lot of hard-working younger millennials who did the right thing, stayed employed throughout adulthood, pay their bills, have good credit, but are locked-out due to rates and base pricing from inflation.
Some are just on the edge though, and even with these smaller point rate-reductions, have been pushed over the edge into being able to now qualify. I don’t like the stretching of the DTI that’s been happening, especially mortgage + auto loans, but that’s where the market has been for a while now.
We need kit homes and some more home construction methods like Super Adobe, that are superior in strength/insulation/earthquake/flood/fire, but pennies on the dollar compared to typical sticks and sheetrock construction.
One problem we’ve seen is venture capitalists who come in, pump-and-dump companies with foreign labor at reduced costs, and increased pricing on services/goods to inflate their run before they move on to the next company. Board members might like it for their own portfolios, but it has been really bad for society.
One concern among realtors and would-be buyers is that another inflationary trend will kick-off with interest rates being lowered, since we’re still suffering from inventory scarcity at-scale. There are a lot of hard-working younger millennials who did the right thing, stayed employed throughout adulthood, pay their bills, have good credit, but are locked-out due to rates and base pricing from inflation.
Some are just on the edge though, and even with these smaller point rate-reductions, have been pushed over the edge into being able to now qualify. I don’t like the stretching of the DTI that’s been happening, especially mortgage + auto loans, but that’s where the market has been for a while now.
We need kit homes and some more home construction methods like Super Adobe, that are superior in strength/insulation/earthquake/flood/fire, but pennies on the dollar compared to typical sticks and sheetrock construction.
For the Southwest US, these designs might suit those looking for something super-affordable, that crushes the strength and insulative properties of traditional construction methods. You never have to re-roof them, attach siding, or other expensive things. Cooling bill is a lot lower as well. “39 times, we fought that beast..."
My buddy almost bought a 3D printed house I forget why he backed out but it was bad enough to say fuck it. All of them I’ve seen are pretty small and you can spot them by the rounded corners
Here is a very affordable way to build a house. I personally know the guy who built this and he is an exceptional human being.
I will never build a house any other way.
There’s plenty of areas that’s not the ideal solution.
There are plenty of threads in which you are not the ideal participant, but we still tolerate you.
As long as the stormtroopers don't roast Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru...For the Southwest US, these designs might suit those looking for something super-affordable, that crushes the strength and insulative properties of traditional construction methods. You never have to re-roof them, attach siding, or other expensive things. Cooling bill is a lot lower as well. “39 times, we fought that beast..."
Buckyball!
There used to be one about 45 mins south of me, right by the roadside. Haven't noticed it in recent trips, but maybe it got camo'd.
On the general thread topic -- I have no kids, have a niece who is smart, driven, personable and creative. She stepped out of her Master's into an economy completely opposite what her dad and me did. We graduated college '85, my bro finished grad school around '91 and me in '89. I found the economy pretty solid in late 80s early 90s. My brother does network security / IT stuff and has enjoyed a fantastic career and socked away more than his idiot lawyer brother.
I write my niece periodically with my thoughts on the economy domestic and global, because she faces challenges unlike what my bro/her dad and I faced. An economy built on stilts expecting perpetual calm winds, but facing a number of brewing storms. Employment practices domestically are almost inexplicable to me as of 2025, who gets hired and doesn't, who gets promoted and doesn't, what subjects are the focus of one's daily time in office -- time spent on "training" for sensitivity or whatever detracting from productivity; HR focusing on that more than productivity.
The young folks my niece's age I encounter daily in my town, mostly do not impress me at all and make me glad I have no kids of my own to suffer such a peer group. If they are working a counter or other job, most are apathetic if you can get them to pay attention at all. In social settings like the grocery they are either sullen, or over-dramatic and loud.
What I don't understand is blaming it on a "generation" or on one's parents. The generation thing is a made-up construct. People are born daily and die dailly, not in perfect 23-year brackets.
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Yalls actions or inactions have led us to this point
Those responsible for the Fed and suffrage are most to blame
Probably my damned legal training talking here, but when I want to fix a problem, I try to find the source of the problem and not some broad-brush ready-made scapegoat. I guess that's annoying in a way. Or two.
I have a lot of friends in their late 20s and 30s making six figures. They work remote jobs and can live almost anywhere that has Internet. My Mom died and we recently sold the house in Jefferson City MO for under 300k. That house in one of the most desirable neighborhoods was three levels and over 3000SF. Starter homes in that town are $100k.
I live in South Florida, my neighbor's kids in their 30s, both college graduates live with Mom and Dad. They have new cars every few years, go on fancy vacations and complain about not being able to get ahead. I've had two new cars in my entire life, but managed to pay off our house this year.
I have plenty of sympathy for the working poor, I have no degree and worked multiple jobs much of my life. I also recognize that house prices are way up, but I also know young people making way more than was realistic in my time and spending in ways we never could.
I see some validity to the argument, but a strong counter argument also.
I live in South Florida, my neighbor's kids in their 30s, both college graduates live with Mom and Dad. They have new cars every few years, go on fancy vacations and complain about not being able to get ahead. I've had two new cars in my entire life, but managed to pay off our house this year.
I have plenty of sympathy for the working poor, I have no degree and worked multiple jobs much of my life. I also recognize that house prices are way up, but I also know young people making way more than was realistic in my time and spending in ways we never could.
I see some validity to the argument, but a strong counter argument also.
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In the 90s when I purchased my first home for 165k I was making $400 a week. My wife made less and I often worked overtime or had a second job. My income was 12.6% of house cost. If I stretched my income from 20,800 to 30,000 with extra jobs and OT it would be 18.1% of house cost.
To someone making 100k today that equals a house of $550k to $793k. In fairness I was just out of the military, got a GI home loan and my income got much better later.
But before someone texting on a thousand dollar phone, driving a car less than ten years old and eating out frequently gets to preach at me, they should work 70 hour weeks for a few years with no vacations first. Like most of my generation, I lived paycheck to paycheck.
I love how the mantra now is to own shit boxes, buy a trap house, only go on local trips, work two jobs, overtime, and have a side hustle.
GTFOH with that shit. $100k gross would finally have you meeting the income requirement to rent one of my 2/1 apartments.
GTFOH with that shit. $100k gross would finally have you meeting the income requirement to rent one of my 2/1 apartments.
Something else I don’t understand about the bootstrapping crowd is why do you want your kids to have to go through that?
Why do you want them to work 60-70 hour work weeks just to get the basics to not be homeless?
Why do you want them in a shit box?
Why jettison them out at 18 to figure it out? Wouldn’t it make more sense to provide them a place to stay so they can save fiat to make a down payment on a home? Pursue education? Invest or create a business?
Wouldn’t it be better to maybe look at the family unit as your business? All work to pay the current house off, then buy the kid a house, and do the same until all have a home?
I just don’t get it. Why would you not make every effort to increase the chances of success for your children?
It blows my mind.
Why do you want them to work 60-70 hour work weeks just to get the basics to not be homeless?
Why do you want them in a shit box?
Why jettison them out at 18 to figure it out? Wouldn’t it make more sense to provide them a place to stay so they can save fiat to make a down payment on a home? Pursue education? Invest or create a business?
Wouldn’t it be better to maybe look at the family unit as your business? All work to pay the current house off, then buy the kid a house, and do the same until all have a home?
I just don’t get it. Why would you not make every effort to increase the chances of success for your children?
It blows my mind.
Everyone wants better for their kids.
I have an issue with people saying that what we worked for is impossible for them, because they will not go through the same pain we did.
We made different decisions, nobody handed is a lavish life style and free house. We skipped the lavish lifestyle to afford a house.
You could afford a median house. Do that now bootstrapping for $18.00 an hour at Amazon.
It’s a different world.
Income needed to buy a median home in the United States is $117,000-$125,000. That’s why I lol at all these people throwing around $50k, $70k, $100k gross like those are life changing incomes.
The $100k gross people are the ones who finally qualify for the income requirements to rent one of my apartments… if they have over a certain credit score.
They can work just as hard as you (which most do), and they still come out nowhere near as well.
The world has changed. Cutting back on Starbucks and avocado toast will no longer enable you to buy the earth.
On the flip side of that coin a lot of the older generation are going to give all of their assets to senior living facilities (great investments by the way) so now the family legacy is eaten up at $6,000-$13,000+ per month for assisted living since all the kids are bootstrapping and can’t look after their elders.
A dollar in the 90s also had about 2.5 times the buying power which means $100k now has the buying power of $40k in the 90s
70 hours a week, that’s cute work over 100 every week then come talk.
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I’m good. I like “working” less than full time. My money makes enough money for me to fuck off all the time.
So a kid bootstrapping can't afford to take care of parent paying a million per year for assistance? Hmmmm
I don't know where you get your numbers, but that isn't my reality. My Dad, 88 yrs old is in independent living for 3k per month, assisted living is about 5k, but most people are not in assisted living long term. Much of his expenses are paid by his Social Security check and he does have some nest egg remaining so that interest helps as well, without hitting the principal.
$18 for Amazon, yea sucks to only be qualified for high turnover jobs that pay shit and everyone hates. A 6 month online computer course with certificate will land you 80k starting and that is still lower than the median income in the US.
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Well that, and CS majors these days will all tell you it's fucking impossible to get a decent job that even pays 80k. Most of the ones I know who weren't the top of their class and didn't get all the best internship opportunities either work retail/food service to stay afloat, or live at home and work jobs that pay even less than that. Yep even the ones whose mommies and daddies paid Ivy League bucks.
Anyone will also tell you working 70 hours a week for more than a few months is terrible. Especially if it's in retail, where 95% of your customers will be normal, but there will be people who make you wonder if there should be an IQ cutoff to be allowed in a store without a chaperone, and they will suck your soul so dry you will want to artistically express your organs all over the register. 40 was enough for me, and I'm still in school.
So I'd commend you for your strength and accomplishments, but you should understand that for most of the population to feasibly do this, they would have to live in a featureless box that doesn't need cleaning and have no parents, wife, kids, to take care of, and no other relationships that require upkeep. It's a simple game of numbers, maybe you are part of the top 10% of people when it comes to this type of endurance, but only 10% of people can be the top 10%. Even if you forced everybody to work 10 hours a day 7 days a week, within 50 days you'd probably just find a quarter of your workers huddled in supply closets trying to eat their own faces. Sucks to suck but you can't just tell the majority of the population to get fucked because that's not how a society works.
(As a country we also have more than enough money to provide everyone with basic needs of food, shelter, and healthcare, so there is and never was a need for anyone to suffer, but Congress would never ever want you to know that. They want you to believe that the poors will become lazy unless you keep them breaking their backs to afford dollar store gruel, but that's actually how they manufacture 'mental illnesses' so they can charge you and your children even more for medications you don't need.)
Businesses also (somehow) give even less of a shit about employees than they used to. Friend my age has been working at the same place with only one raise to $15/h for ages, which actually got bumped back down to $13 because his coworker (who is liked by management) offered to cover ONE shift for $100, then talked crap behind his back to make it seem like his fault for 'skipping work'. Putting your head down and working is bad advice, petty company politics takes precedent at every level nowadays.
If anyone needs me I'll be busy wiping my ass with a pumpkin-scented disposable towel.
Truly happy for your dad. But it depends on situation. My grandmother is the same age, with dementia, her living assistance home price varies depending on how much care she needs. But varies between $13k-$16k a month. I dont know the particulars but Im told she has to burn through the assets before Medicare/Medicaid will pay for anything.
Anyways we didn’t think she would make it two years…well we are ticking over to four. I truly hope everyone boomers, millienials, the zoomer fucks. All of us are able to get a golden egg. Because watching that type of money flow out each month is crazy.
As I said, buying into senior living facilities was one of my better ideas in the last 3 years. Might get involved in the funeral home bidness next.
The callousness of this post is beyond anything I could have thought of in my worst moments.
People on here have quite justifiably given condolences for loved dogs that have died to grieving owners and you put this out about a members grandmother? Do you have no soul, compassion or understanding? Is it all about money with you, and telling others how much you have? You may know investments but that doesn’t supersede compassion, nor does it allow for an air of superiority. Ever. It makes you a ghoul. You will be there some day, just like the rest of us.
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I didn’t mention anyone’s grandmother. You did. I just stated that senior living facilities are a great place to park cash.
A good investment is a good investment.
Wait until you find out how much money people make with childcare facilities. These are all symptoms of a destroyed family unit, and dual working couples.
Make multi-generational households great again.
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