Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
- Thread starter randian
- Start date
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
Marketing.
The .244 Rem naming evolution into the 6mm Remington illustrates the point.
Marketing.
The .244 Rem naming evolution into the 6mm Remington illustrates the point.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marketing. </div></div>
Big +1. The 38 special always messed me up when I first got into all this. What's so "special" about a 38, that isn't even a 38!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marketing. </div></div>
Big +1. The 38 special always messed me up when I first got into all this. What's so "special" about a 38, that isn't even a 38!
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marketing. </div></div>
Big +1. The 38 special always messed me up when I first got into all this. What's so "special" about a 38, that isn't even a 38! </div></div>
I was always told that .38 and .44 were named after the rim diameter, not the bullet diameter (.357/.429 respectively) but this isn't true either. I don't mess with .38/.357 Magnum but the rim diameter of .44 Magnum is .514.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Marketing. </div></div>
Big +1. The 38 special always messed me up when I first got into all this. What's so "special" about a 38, that isn't even a 38! </div></div>
I was always told that .38 and .44 were named after the rim diameter, not the bullet diameter (.357/.429 respectively) but this isn't true either. I don't mess with .38/.357 Magnum but the rim diameter of .44 Magnum is .514.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
"..told that .38 and .44 were named after the rim diameter, not the bullet diameter (.357/.429 respectively) but this isn't true either."
You wuz obviously told wrong. The .38 and .44 designation was the original case diameter of the loaded ammo at the mouth.
Marketing demands there be some differences in labels to hold ammo purchasing confusion to a minimum, all the purchaser needs to know is to match what's stamped on his barrel to the label on the ammo box. (Such "confusion" for reloaders is meaningless, if a reloader doesn't know and won't learn what he's doing he should take up golf.) Thus, in factory loadings we have .223 bullets only for the .22 Hornet while in .224 bullet diameter we have the .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Rem.(and .222 Rem Mag), .223Rem/5.56 NATO, .224 Weatherby, .225 Win. No big deal. ??
"..told that .38 and .44 were named after the rim diameter, not the bullet diameter (.357/.429 respectively) but this isn't true either."
You wuz obviously told wrong. The .38 and .44 designation was the original case diameter of the loaded ammo at the mouth.
Marketing demands there be some differences in labels to hold ammo purchasing confusion to a minimum, all the purchaser needs to know is to match what's stamped on his barrel to the label on the ammo box. (Such "confusion" for reloaders is meaningless, if a reloader doesn't know and won't learn what he's doing he should take up golf.) Thus, in factory loadings we have .223 bullets only for the .22 Hornet while in .224 bullet diameter we have the .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Rem.(and .222 Rem Mag), .223Rem/5.56 NATO, .224 Weatherby, .225 Win. No big deal. ??
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
Theres a lot of strange cartridge names, but once you get some experience and read more you will find they are all very similar with the main differences being the case.
17 cal, 22 cal, 6mm (.243) cal, 25 cal, 6.5mm (.264) cal, 7mm (.284) cal, .30 (.308) cal
Dont forget there are also various manufacturers that make different case types to hold virtually the same bullets and hence a new cartridge is born. Then you have wildcats, where an existing cartridge is modified in some way, or made to hold a different projectile.
Theres a vast world of different ammo out there, but in a short time you will realise it all relies on familiar components.
Theres a lot of strange cartridge names, but once you get some experience and read more you will find they are all very similar with the main differences being the case.
17 cal, 22 cal, 6mm (.243) cal, 25 cal, 6.5mm (.264) cal, 7mm (.284) cal, .30 (.308) cal
Dont forget there are also various manufacturers that make different case types to hold virtually the same bullets and hence a new cartridge is born. Then you have wildcats, where an existing cartridge is modified in some way, or made to hold a different projectile.
Theres a vast world of different ammo out there, but in a short time you will realise it all relies on familiar components.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because 264 and 308 were all ready taken. </div></div>
Remington already had a "264 Remington" when they came out with "260 Remington", and Winchester already had a "308 Winchester Short Magnum" when they came out with "300 Winchester Short Magnum"?
Some of this marketing makes no sense. Nobody confuses bullets just because they share a diameter designation, because bullets are also distinguished by original manufacturer and things like "magnum", "short", etc.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Austan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because 264 and 308 were all ready taken. </div></div>
Remington already had a "264 Remington" when they came out with "260 Remington", and Winchester already had a "308 Winchester Short Magnum" when they came out with "300 Winchester Short Magnum"?
Some of this marketing makes no sense. Nobody confuses bullets just because they share a diameter designation, because bullets are also distinguished by original manufacturer and things like "magnum", "short", etc.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
"..because bullets are also distinguished by original manufacturer and things like "magnum", "short", etc."
No. And your comment is an example of how the language is misused in ways that make it difficult for makers to present an understandable label. Check one of your boxes of factory "bullets" and you will see the word "cartidges", what you are calling a "bullet" is a cartridge.
"Bullets" are the projectiles. No manufactor labels reloadable bullets for "magnum", "short", etc, they are sold by the diameter and other criteria, not the use. We are free to use them in any cartridges we wish.
"..because bullets are also distinguished by original manufacturer and things like "magnum", "short", etc."
No. And your comment is an example of how the language is misused in ways that make it difficult for makers to present an understandable label. Check one of your boxes of factory "bullets" and you will see the word "cartidges", what you are calling a "bullet" is a cartridge.
"Bullets" are the projectiles. No manufactor labels reloadable bullets for "magnum", "short", etc, they are sold by the diameter and other criteria, not the use. We are free to use them in any cartridges we wish.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
The .460 S&W Magnum shoots .454-cal bullets. I reckon they didn't want it associated with them other puny .45-cal guns.
The .460 S&W Magnum shoots .454-cal bullets. I reckon they didn't want it associated with them other puny .45-cal guns.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
Well if pondering actual size not measuring up to the claimed one- lets hope women are not so curious and decide to whip out the old ruler!
My 12ga shotgun shells are labeled 2 3/4" but are only 2 5/16" long.
Now thats labeling after my own heart!
Well if pondering actual size not measuring up to the claimed one- lets hope women are not so curious and decide to whip out the old ruler!
My 12ga shotgun shells are labeled 2 3/4" but are only 2 5/16" long.
Now thats labeling after my own heart!
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
What everyone else says - marketing. Consider the 340 Weatherby. Apparently it's bigger than a 338 Winchester. Powder capacity it is, but not bore diameter.
What everyone else says - marketing. Consider the 340 Weatherby. Apparently it's bigger than a 338 Winchester. Powder capacity it is, but not bore diameter.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
"My 12ga shotgun shells are labeled 2 3/4" but are only 2 5/16" long. --- Now thats labeling after my own heart!"
Check the fired case lengths, see if the puzzle goes away.
"My 12ga shotgun shells are labeled 2 3/4" but are only 2 5/16" long. --- Now thats labeling after my own heart!"
Check the fired case lengths, see if the puzzle goes away.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No. And your comment is an example of how the language is misused in ways that make it difficult for makers to present an understandable label. Check one of your boxes of factory "bullets" and you will see the word "cartidges", what you are calling a "bullet" is a cartridge.</div></div>
All pedantry aside, calling something a "260 Remington" is perfectly understandable, because if Lapua manufactures a clone of it they aren't going to call it "260 Lapua". It's a unique designation. Calling a cartridge with a .264" bullet "260 Remington" isn't exactly calculated to make the matter more understandable to the layman. There was no point to it since as far as I know there was no existing "264 Remington" cartridge to get it confused with. Why don't we refer to "340 Lapua"? That would make as much sense. I hope you get my point.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No. And your comment is an example of how the language is misused in ways that make it difficult for makers to present an understandable label. Check one of your boxes of factory "bullets" and you will see the word "cartidges", what you are calling a "bullet" is a cartridge.</div></div>
All pedantry aside, calling something a "260 Remington" is perfectly understandable, because if Lapua manufactures a clone of it they aren't going to call it "260 Lapua". It's a unique designation. Calling a cartridge with a .264" bullet "260 Remington" isn't exactly calculated to make the matter more understandable to the layman. There was no point to it since as far as I know there was no existing "264 Remington" cartridge to get it confused with. Why don't we refer to "340 Lapua"? That would make as much sense. I hope you get my point.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
"I hope you get my point."
We get your point. But, "layman" puzzlement aside, cartridges are what they are.
Attention to small details isn't pedantry when small details are at the very core of your question. And reloading/shooting is a VERY detailed activity, missuse of the terms is confusing to both the questionor and anwerees (meaning US!). Otherwise we have to wonder, does the guy actually mean what he said or does he really mean something else? It doesn't get much more basic than the difference between cartridges and bullets.
??
"I hope you get my point."
We get your point. But, "layman" puzzlement aside, cartridges are what they are.
Attention to small details isn't pedantry when small details are at the very core of your question. And reloading/shooting is a VERY detailed activity, missuse of the terms is confusing to both the questionor and anwerees (meaning US!). Otherwise we have to wonder, does the guy actually mean what he said or does he really mean something else? It doesn't get much more basic than the difference between cartridges and bullets.
Re: Why don't cartridge names match measurements?
that wikipedia BS has it only half right, the .244 Rem. actually went to 6mm Rem. Magnum, the Magnum name was dropped after several months IIRC, i bought a Remington M-700 BDL at the Navy Exchange in Yokosuka Japan, it was marked 6mm Remington Magnum, my ship, the USS Oriskany CVA-34 was in port for some major repairs, during that time, about 6 weeks, i bought 5 rifles and two handguns. that was waaaaaay back in 1962ad.
ooooh !! just found this:
Federal Power-Shok Rifle Ammunition 6mm Remington Magnum 80 Grain Soft Point Box of 20
In stock
SKU:FAC6AS
Weight:1.50
Price: $25.99
that wikipedia BS has it only half right, the .244 Rem. actually went to 6mm Rem. Magnum, the Magnum name was dropped after several months IIRC, i bought a Remington M-700 BDL at the Navy Exchange in Yokosuka Japan, it was marked 6mm Remington Magnum, my ship, the USS Oriskany CVA-34 was in port for some major repairs, during that time, about 6 weeks, i bought 5 rifles and two handguns. that was waaaaaay back in 1962ad.
ooooh !! just found this:
Federal Power-Shok Rifle Ammunition 6mm Remington Magnum 80 Grain Soft Point Box of 20
In stock
SKU:FAC6AS
Weight:1.50
Price: $25.99
