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Rifle Scopes Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The whole point why mils work "better" with the decimal system is that in the decimal system, the same unit of measurement is used for distance and target size.

It doesn't matter at all that metric uses meters, you could use yards as well if you were used to think of target sizes in yards. Where it gets more complicated with the imperial system is when you try to calculate a distance in yards using a target size given in inches or feet, because that's where you have to divide or multiply by odd numbers while you only shift commas with the metric system.

It's not that one unit of measurement is "superior" to the other, it's just that the imerial system is not coherent and different units are being used for different parts of the equation. </div></div>

Totally agree. However, my point is Millradians might not be so easy to use throughout the universe if an advance civilization does not use a decimal system as their base numbering system.

It's very hard to be the only forward thinker in the room.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

So you are sticking to that argument huh?


When we learn the far advamced numerical and vastly different math of this advanced civilzation from planet Zorg...then I will give a shit, but right now, you are wrong.


Sorry.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's very hard to be the only forward thinker in the room.</div></div>

I thought that I was the most arrogant ass on this board. Clearly my judgement was premature.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are sticking to that argument huh?


When we learn the far advamced numerical and vastly different math of this advanced civilzation from planet Zorg...then I will give a shit, but right now, you are wrong.


Sorry. </div></div>

I don't think, I know so. I know it's hard to comprehend but I'll do my best to try to explain to the simple minded.

How does a binary, oct, and hex system work? Well they work by bits? it works in values of 2's and not 10's. To get to 10 you need the "2 bit" on and the "8 bit on". To get to 100 you need the "64 bit" on, and the "32" bit on" and the "4 bit" on. Get my point? It's not so natural to work in Miliradians for this type of numbering for system.

For us humans here on earth, a decimal numbering-system (base 10) is natural because that is what we have been taught since we were 8 months old. Counting to 10 is natural to all of US and WE think in terms of 10's.

Might not be like this throughout the universe, that is all I am saying.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's very hard to be the only forward thinker in the room.</div></div>

I thought that I was the most arrogant ass on this board. Clearly my judgement was premature.
</div></div>

I am actually the dumbest one in a lot of rooms. Just not in this one
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wink.gif
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's very hard to be the only forward thinker in the room.</div></div>

I thought that I was the most arrogant ass on this board. Clearly my judgement was premature.
</div></div>

<span style="color: #CC0000">I am actually the dumbest one in a lot of rooms. Just not in this one </span>
laugh.gif
wink.gif
</div></div>


Not so fast my friend, he said "arrogant" you may still be
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwp475</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not so fast my friend, he said "arrogant" you may still be </div></div>

I don't mind being the dumbest if I am learning something. No Ego here.

Unfortunately everyone here is stuck in a Decimal Base-10 world and can't get it out of their heads another advance beings somewhere in the universe might use a different type of numbering system than a base-10.

If a base-10 was so great why do computers don't use them? Computers use Binary, Octa, and Hexi for a reason. For them it's naturally easier to think in terms of 2 bits. For us it's naturally easier to think in terms of 10 bits.

Again, I will gladly be the the dumbest person in the room if you guys can teach me something new, unfortunately most here are just full of EGOs and will never cede points.

It is an honor to be around all you "smart guys"
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

I get paid for teaching. You're welcome to come to class, if you have the tuition.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Computers use Binary, Octa, and Hexi for a reason. For them it's naturally easier to think in terms of 2 bits.</div></div>

Computers don't think. And early ones used binary because the logic circuits had only two states, on or off, used to represent 0 or 1. The first computer I programmed had vacuum tubes and magnetic core memory, before, I expect, you were born.

I'm late for a nap. G'day.

 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get paid for teaching. You're welcome to come to class, if you have the tuition.

Computers don't think. And early ones used binary because the logic circuits had only two states, on or off, used to represent 0 or 1. The first computer I programmed had vacuum tubes and magnetic core memory, before, I expect, you were born.

I'm late for a nap. G'day.

</div></div>

Cool we got a smart guy here. Can you teach me something then? I am willing to learn.

I myself teach for free every day. Or are you saying you are too good to teach people for free? Do we have to pay to see your post? Because if we do, there might be a bug in the system as I get all your post for free. hahahaah!

Speaking on the topic of the Decimal System, Though the early Chinese and early Indians did use a base-10 system, not all advance civilizations here on earth did. The early Babylonians used a base-60 and some cultures even used a base-4 system. There is no concrete Scientific Evidence that you need to think in terms of base-10 to advance a culture.

Now being the "Free Teacher" and all around nice guy that I am, I will even point to you the articles to get started in understanding of numbering system.

Babylonian Base 60 System

Decimal Base 10 System

Numbering Systems in General
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm late for a nap. G'day.

</div></div>

Let me know when you get up from your nap so I can Learn.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

Dude, you do this in every thread you participate in, why? Here's my thought on your thoughts:

ClownBarf.jpg
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dude, you do this in every thread you participate in, why? Here's my thought on your thoughts:
</div></div>

I know all you guys belong to the same herd and have to look after each other. If the herd leader leads you off a cliff, just don't expect me to follow.

Where is the love, what about "Thank you, I see your point?" Why all the ego's and "I am always" right attitude around this place?
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, Grasshopper, but I fear your cup is already full.
</div></div>

You are such a caring person worrying about if my cup is full or not. Thanks for looking out. I don't think it is, but being the teacher that you are, I am sure you would know me better than I know myself.

Again thanks for getting my back!
smile.gif
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

I am just thankful all you "Smart Guys" and "Teachers" let me participate in this thread.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

It has absolutely nothing to do with right and wrong. It has to do with the fact that most of the threads you participate in always seem to turn into these petty debates/arguments. There are a lot of people here that have an immense amount of knowledge and experience that I am very happy to benefit from. If you continually piss these people off by acting the way you do, then others that are here to learn something (such as myself) stand to lose the benefit of their expertise if they choose not to answer questions any longer. There are lots of ways to share information and/or debate issues on a site like this without irritating people and turning every thread into a pissing contest.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

I do like this topic ... because it has to do with mathematics i guess.
I know Lindy likes this one too.
EricCartmann, you have some great points and got me thinking through some stuff. I liked your references to other number systems.
Lindy why don't you actually take the time to illustrate out an explanation of this? You seem to rather enjoy confusing people more than actually teaching them...

The BLUFF is (Bottom line up front), any units of measure when properly understood can yield the exact same results in shooting applications(or anything else), especially with a table. It is best to fully understand your units; which is why most of you are reading this.

However, in the world of mathematics, radians are superior because of their relationship based on the number pi(3.14...). This in itself takes a lot of explaining and math classes to understand and really isn't necessary in shooting applications. Basically, like the metric system, radians are easier to work with in laboratory calculations.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gunlove</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do like this topic ... because it has to do with mathematics i guess.
I know Lindy likes this one too.
EricCartmann, you have some great points and got me thinking through some stuff. I liked your references to other number systems.
Lindy why don't you actually take the time to illustrate out an explanation of this? You seem to rather enjoy confusing people more than actually teaching them...

The BLUFF is (Bottom line up front), any units of measure when properly understood can yield the exact same results in shooting applications(or anything else), especially with a table. It is best to fully understand your units; which is why most of you are reading this.

However, in the world of mathematics, radians are superior because of their relationship based on the number pi(3.14...). This in itself takes a lot of explaining and math classes to understand and really isn't necessary in shooting applications. Basically, like the metric system, radians are easier to work with in laboratory calculations.
</div></div>

We are all on the same team. You understand this! Bravo!!!
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has absolutely nothing to do with right and wrong. It has to do with the fact that most of the threads you participate in always seem to turn into these petty debates/arguments. There are a lot of people here that have an immense amount of knowledge and experience that I am very happy to benefit from. If you continually piss these people off by acting the way you do, then others that are here to learn something (such as myself) stand to lose the benefit of their expertise if they choose not to answer questions any longer. There are lots of ways to share information and/or debate issues on a site like this without irritating people and turning every thread into a pissing contest. </div></div>

Look I don't need to be right. I am just he messenger. I am very happy to concede points and always willing to learn. I am a life long student.

Don't get mad at the messenger for delivering the message.

What did I say was so offensive?
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

Lindy I believes explains it in very technical but simple terms and EricCartman, has a very valid point about how we use the decimal system and how other lifeforms could use something else but Cartman I assure you that you arent the first person to ever come up with that "original thought of yours". I agree with you however cartman that alot of people on here stick to the "herd" as you put it and when they post they just merely repeat whats already been said. Cartman- if you want to impress someone come up with a better system then, as opposed to pointing out that other people use different systems. Cause in my book that doesn't make you more all that intelligent.
p.s. By the way it doesnt matter if you say twelve like "12" or if you use the Mayan dots and lines, 12 = 12 as far as we are concerned with practical applications such as shooting. By the way Cartman I do believe you to be intelligent but theres lots of intelligent people in the world that die and are forgotten every day.To prove this I doubt many people on this board know who came up with the first tensor is.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

Going back to the OP's question, I like mils better because there are 10 clicks to a mil and I can reference my fingers and/or toes if I get confused.

Disclaimer: There is the ever present threat that numbering systems in advanced civilizations on other worlds in the universe may invalidate everything we earthlings have ever known as fact. This should go without saying to forward thinking marksmen.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lindy I believes explains it in very technical but simple terms and EricCartman, has a very valid point about how we use the decimal system and how other lifeforms could use something else but Cartman I assure you that you arent the first person to ever come up with that "original thought of yours". I agree with you however cartman that alot of people on here stick to the "herd" as you put it and when they post they just merely repeat whats already been said. Cartman- if you want to impress someone come up with a better system then, as opposed to pointing out that other people use different systems. Cause in my book that doesn't make you more all that intelligent.
p.s. By the way it doesnt matter if you say twelve like "12" or if you use the Mayan dots and lines, 12 = 12 as far as we are concerned with practical applications such as shooting. By the way Cartman I do believe you to be intelligent but theres lots of intelligent people in the world that die and are forgotten every day.To prove this I doubt many people on this board know who came up with the first tensor is. </div></div>

Cartmann is not that smart, trust me I know! I live with him every day.

Cartmann does not need to invent a numbering system of his own because there are already some out there that work perfectly fine for Cartmann.

All I said was Cartmann was the smartest one in this room, because this room seems to be filled with a lot of dumb people. I will back-track a little.. Cartmann may not be the smartest person in this room, but I guarantee you he is right up there. But then that is not saying much considered we have a "Teacher" in this thread that thinks the Decimal System is the only numbering system out there hahahah.

Cartmann thing is this... If he ever finds himself to be the smartest person in the room, it's time he leaves and find another room ahhaha. But I don't mind hanging out with the Stupids every now and then.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

If the "herd" mentality concludes that Cartmann is a dick and his time fuse on the Hide is burning out...count me in
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Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the "herd" mentality concludes that Cartmann is a dick and his time fuse on the Hide is burning out...count me in
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Cartmann is actually a cool guy. He might not stroke your ego, or agree with you just for the sake of agreeing.. but he is always willing to help you if you need assistance with something.

However, Cartmann understands, these days in order to be a "cool" guy you have to stroke egos. Because Cartmann does not blindly follow you off a cliff, he is now a dick.

That right here sums it all up. ahhahah
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCarrtmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The biggest problem with MOA is the people who say "oh, one MOA is an inch at 100 yards." A MOA is not an inch at 100 yards. It's 1.047" at 100 yards. For short ranges the difference doesn't matter. At 1000 yards with 40 MOA drop you will be off 19". </div></div>

Uh what? NO
</div></div>

If you are sure I am wrong please explain how. I can't wait. </div></div>

Nevermind, I see you point now, you were talking about true MOA while I was talking about IPHY.

Scopes don't use true MOA (1.047" at 100 yards), instead their adjustments are IPHY (1" at 100 yards).

So if you go up 40 MOA (again MOA here meaning IPHY and not true MOA) with a scope, you are going 400" and not 419" inches. </div></div>

OP: ^^^ this right here is why
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because Cartmann does not blindly follow you off a cliff, he is now a dick.</div></div>

Because others don't jump on your "what works on earth, may not work throughout the universe" argument, you think you are being led over a cliff? Then, you bust on Lindy, who has forgotten more about tactical shooting than you will ever learn. Your attitude earns you the title, not your "knowledge."

Cheers.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

On the subject of the milliradian in other numerical base systems.

A radian is the angle subtended by a circular arc with length equal to the radius of the circle. This has nothing to do with what numerical base you are using.

A milliradian based on a decimal 1/1000th of a radian subtends an arc of 1/1000th the radius of the arc. This is a small enough amount it can be treated as a straight line for our purposes.

A decimal milliradian would subtend 1/1111101000 (or, alternatively, would be 1/1111101000 radians in binary) the distance to the target in binary, 1/1750 in octal (or 1/1750 radians), and 1/3E8 in hexadecimal (or 1/3E8 in hex). The math is less easy but will still work.

It is trivial to make up an easy-math version for decimal, octal, hexadecimal, or any other base.

In binary, you'd probably want to use 10^-10 radians (binary 1/10000000000 radian, equivalent to decimal 1/1024 radians, or very close to our milliradians) In octal and hex, milliradians would be close enough but of course 1000 in octal (decimal 512, yielding milliradians approx. 2x the size of our milliradians) and hex (decimal 4096, yielding milliradians approx. 1/4 the size our milliradians) are different numbers from decimal 1000 so the actual values are different.

There's nothing special about base 10. In its own base all the bases mentioned are base 10.

Basically, the problem is so trivial there's no point even worrying about it.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's very hard to be the only forward thinker in the room.</div></div>I thought that I was the most arrogant ass on this board. Clearly my judgement was premature. </div></div>Wait: I thought that was me! I guess my hard work hasn't paid off.
laugh.gif
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because Cartmann does not blindly follow you off a cliff, he is now a dick.</div></div>

Because others don't jump on your "what works on earth, may not work throughout the universe" argument, you think you are being led over a cliff? Then, you bust on Lindy, who has forgotten more about tactical shooting than you will ever learn. Your attitude earns you the title, not your "knowledge."

Cheers. </div></div>

Ok smart guy, point to me what I said was so wrong and I will glady give you props. Oh and just because Lindy is right 999 times, does not mean he will be right 1000 times.

All I said was milliradians will not be ideal through-out the universe because it is most likely not everyone in the universe will use a base-10 numbering system. Heck even here on Earth not everyone uses a base-10 numbering system so what makes you think everyone in the universe will?

Again I am just the messenger, if being the messenger means being a Dick, then yes, I am one of the biggest Dick in the Universe because I love being the messenger
laugh.gif
yeeee hawwww!

Besides everyone needs to as you say be "bust on" because that is what keeps us all in check and No one should ever believe "I am always right" or "I am God". Even Cartmann appreciates a good "bust on" every time he gets one. At the end of the day you have to shake the hand of the victor. This is called Sportsnamship, which is seems like 75% of gun guys know nothing about.

Now again, if you want me to stroke your ego, let me know, I don't know if I can, but I will at the very least try.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lol why does cartmann talk about himself in the third person? doesn't dwight of the office do that? </div></div>

Yes Dwight does it too. In real life Cartmann does not speak in the Third person, just his internet persona does that hahahaaha
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even Cartmann appreciates a good "bust on" every time he gets one. At the end of the day you have to shake the hand of the victor.

Now again, if you want me to stroke your ego, let me know, I don't know if I can, but I will at the very least try. </div></div>


No, you are clearly the "victor"
crazy.gif


Congrats!
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, you are clearly the "victor"
crazy.gif


Congrats! </div></div>

I did not realize I was in a competition. What did I win?
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

Guy's, I have used the preference button for the first time ever, and must say it works perfect.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

Cartmann claims to be the smartest person here, and yet proves that to not be true...all in the same thread.

So, your hypothesis is that mils will not work with every system. For a hypothesis to be accepted, it must be proven, so...get busy. Show us an example to prove your idea.

There have been plenty of examples to the contrary, so it better be good.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why does it seem like every one is getting Mil/Mil turrests instead of MOA/MOA??

Whats the advantage of it? </div></div>


Wow, who would've thought two simple questions could cause such a shitstorm?

Will someone please lock this thread? I'm seriously losing my beer buzz.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

I've lost count of the number of threads that have degenerated to crap because people have to chime in with their so called intelligence talking about formulas, equations, and all manner of just crap that takes away from the teaching moment, that new guys really trying to learn something just shake their heads and walk away.

You want to talk about running over a cliff like Lemmings, sorry, but this thread went over the cliff quite a while ago.

There are not many members on this site who are more qualified than Lindy to teach, whether it's in person, or on the net, about putting bullets on steel and using reticles. Most of the other people who are as qualified have already quite posting on this site due to the same kind of thing that is taking place here again.

It happens time and again, a member asks a question and is really trying to learn something. Then you have people who have spent years making a living doing exactly what the question is about who take time out of their day and give a straight forward answer. Then you have someone who's only carried a rifle from the trunk of their car to the bench, or shot one whole rifle match, or read a book or the internet articles get on their high horse and jump in the guys face who's spent years actually living it. Or someone jumps in with milling in outer space, or artillery milling, anything and everything, except what will help someone actually learn something useful The expert pretty soon says "F*&k that guy and this site, I don't have to put up with this crap anymore"

And the knowledge base diminishes and all we're left with is the numbnuts who brought the whole thread down.

Way to go.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

To the original question, both systems have theoretical advantages. I run mil because when you are on a line shooting, 90% of the guys watching your misses are calling corrections in mils...that simple.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

I guess I have no choice but hold the burden of being the smartest guy in the room
frown.gif


Dam all I said was Mils not might work throughout the Universe because not every Advance Civilization might not use a Base-10 Numbering System. I did not realize this would cause such a huge fire.

Trust me I don't want to be the smartest guy in the room, but if you guys can't admit this then I guess I will be the smartest guy in the room! ahhahaah yeeee hawwwww!

There is something seriously wrong if Cartmann is the smartest one the room.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I have no choice but hold the burden of being the smartest guy in the room
frown.gif


Dam all I said was Mils not might work throughout the Universe because not every Advance Civilization might not use a Base-10 Numbering System. I did not realize this would cause such a huge fire.

Trust me I don't want to be the smartest guy in the room, but if you guys can't admit this then I guess I will be the smartest guy in the room! ahhahaah yeeee hawwwww!

There is something seriously wrong if Cartmann is the smartest one the room. </div></div>
352q8fs.gif
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

Alright, let me play NICE now. Become part of the herd
wink.gif


What do I have to do to make everyone feel better? If I say "Yes, Milliradians will work perfectly for every intelligent civilization in the Universe because every one of these intelligent civilization has a Decimal (Base-10) numbering System"

Would that make it all better? Let me know, I want to be part of the herd.
smile.gif
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do I have to do to make everyone feel better? </div></div>

Try suck-starting your Savage.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do I have to do to make everyone feel better? </div></div>

Try suck-starting your Savage. </div></div>

How would that make everyone feel better. Can you post a video to help me get started?
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do I have to do to make everyone feel better? </div></div>

Try suck-starting your Savage. </div></div>

How would that make everyone feel better. Can you post a video to help me get started?</div></div>

I would suggest using your imagination, you seem to be the smartest amongst us, so this should not be the limiting factor.

I agree with Tburkes...I find it disheartening that the experience we can all learn from will leave due to the self gratification of the unproven...
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do I have to do to make everyone feel better? </div></div>

Try suck-starting your Savage. </div></div>

How would that make everyone feel better. Can you post a video to help me get started? </div></div>

Eric,
Please tell me how you have moved the ball forward? If you want to have an ethereal discussion of how on some planet some alien race might use base seven, then have a day of it. I went through the mental gymnastics in college with the “philosopher” types who wanted to state there are not “absolute” truths. Who want to argue that 2+2 is equal to 5 on some distant galaxy in some alternate dimension.

This reminds me of a joke.

A philosopher and a engineer agree to a psychological experiment.
The philosopher is put in a chair in a large empty room and a
beautiful naked woman is placed on a bed at the other end of the room.
The philosopher explains, "You are to remain in your chair. Every
five minutes, I will move your chair to a position halfway between its
current location and the woman on the bed." The philosopher looks
at the psychologist in disgust. "What? I'm not going to go through
this. You know I'll never reach the bed!" And he gets up and storms
out. The psychologist makes a note on his clipboard and ushers the
engineer in. He explains the situation, and the engineer's eyes
light up and he starts drooling. The psychologist is a bit confused.
"Don't you realize that you'll never reach her?" The engineer smiles
and replied, "Of course! But I'll get close enough for all practical
purposes!"

so please, storm out of the room.
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

well I too would have failed that test. What does that have to do with mental gymnastics though?
 
Re: Why MIL/MIL not MOA/MOA?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MTETM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would suggest using your imagination, you seem to be the smartest amongst us, so this should not be the limiting factor.

I agree with Tburkes...I find it disheartening that the experience we can all learn from will leave due to the self gratification of the unproven...
</div></div>

Well I am going to need your help with this one. I might be smart in figuring out that a base-10 numbering system might not be universal, but I am not smart enough to figure that one out.

Know some, don't know some, Win some you lose some.

Can you help me with this one?
 
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