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why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

GSRswapandslow

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 13, 2008
873
32
43
North Carolina, Hudson (28638)
so..there's so many FAL mags to be had for very very very cheap...
there's ar10 mags for considerably cheaper than AICS...
there's AR15 mags....


why don't people make a bottom metal to accept a mag of this style? they feed great...are super cheap....and would most likely attract more people to a product if they didn't have to buy $80 mags..


just curious
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

All those mags feed great (for the ammo they are designed for), none of wich are a bolt gun.

I have seen Mausers converted to use M14 mags...

The real reason is AI pays all these companies making bottom metal massive amounts of money to continue to use their mags
crazy.gif
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so..there's so many FAL mags to be had for very very very cheap...
there's ar10 mags for considerably cheaper than AICS...
there's AR15 mags....


why don't people make a bottom metal to accept a mag of this style? they feed great...are super cheap....and would most likely attract more people to a product if they didn't have to buy $80 mags..


just curious </div></div>

This comes up time and time again.

It has been done before, wasn’t reliable, mags needed to be fitted to the weapon, wasn’t reliable, receiver needed to be modified, wasn't reliable.

By the time you do all the work necessary to make it work you would have been better off going with the system that does. Did I mention it wasn't reliable?
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk9176251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">g3 mags can be had for as low as .99 cents! </div></div>

or less....i got 28 of them for free......


are there no single stack factory mags? my whole problem is a company asking $80 for a mag that's no more complicated to make than a $5 ar mag...it's price gouging.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk9176251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">g3 mags can be had for as low as .99 cents! </div></div>

or less....i got 28 of them for free......


are there no single stack factory mags? my whole problem is a company asking $80 for a mag that's no more complicated to make than a $5 ar mag...it's price gouging. </div></div>

It's not as simple as you make it sound.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

there is one , and it's typically the factory DBM option

i have a remington PSS with the factory detach mag system , and it rocks , no troubles

and i have a FN spr rifle being rebarreled , that will sport the factory mags,

four in the mag and one in the chamber, what more do i need ?

not to sound biased, i also have a rem 700 custom with the BADGER m5 system too ,

heck , i got some cool stuff , lol
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

well , there you go

and the military, specifically , the USMC requested a bottom metal , that used reliable detach mags, to retro fit to their SS weapons

and we all just have to have the latest and greatest gear, too

i am a big gear queer- there i said it
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

Define Cheap.

I tried doing one with the new Pmags from magpul. It CAN be done, but you wont be left with much on the bottom of your action. The Bottom metal would still be 200$+mag (material, machine time, handling, coating, assembly, handling, taking the order, shipping, schedualing to build again). Now you are goingt to need to pay a gunsmith at least 1 hour maybe 2 to modify your action and make it work. Take their shop rate x2 and add that to your bottom metal. Its going to be well over 350$ these all take time and you are paying for time. The less time i take the cheaper it will be but also the less you are going to get for your money.

the reason is not becasue people are willing to pay the money for them. I wouldnt build them any cheaper than i do now, i would build something else insted. Its not easy to come up with 30-40k per month to operate a cnc shop. Everything costs
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk9176251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">g3 mags can be had for as low as .99 cents! </div></div>

or less....i got 28 of them for free......


are there no single stack factory mags? my whole problem is a company asking $80 for a mag that's no more complicated to make than a $5 ar mag...it's price gouging. </div></div>

Price doesn't come only from a markup of cost, it comes from the customers' willingness to pay, and there are enough people willing to pay what they are asking. Considering what most people have in their rifles, a couple mags at $80 each isn't much in the grand scheme of things.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where is the best place to get a badger bottom for a REM 700 5R? </div></div>

Triad or CS Tactical usually have them, both site sponsors.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk9176251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">g3 mags can be had for as low as .99 cents! </div></div>

or less....i got 28 of them for free......


are there no single stack factory mags? my whole problem is a company asking $80 for a mag that's no more complicated to make than a $5 ar mag...it's price gouging. </div></div>

Definitely have to agree. 80 bucks for a rifle mag is b.s. any way you cut it.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so..there's so many FAL mags to be had for very very very cheap...
there's ar10 mags for considerably cheaper than AICS...
there's AR15 mags....


why don't people make a bottom metal to accept a mag of this style? they feed great...are super cheap....and would most likely attract more people to a product if they didn't have to buy $80 mags..


just curious </div></div>

I know this seems like such a simple solution, but as Randy said, it's been done before and the AICS or AW mags are still a much better solution. The problem with cheap mags is that they're....cheap! And this is aside from that fact that they weren't designed to feed a bolt rifle. I would rather have five $80 magazines that worked all of the time instead of a box of free magazines that never worked....
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

how much does the rifle cost, that you would build a bottom metal capable of accepting a $.99 magazine? We all spend tons of money making sure our rifles will perform and perform well in all situations we can think of, then want to get cheap on the smallest things. I don't like to pay a ton of money for a magazine either, but I like to know that it will work when I need it... From what I have seen around here a custom rifle is costing around $3,000. A couple $80 magazines isn't a huge cost in the scheme of this. If you are wanting to go cheap, there are also cheap options, the factory DBM, or even the KwikKlips...
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

i mean, ya'll can try to rationalize it all you want......but there's no getting by the fact that they're over priced, severely. I guess there's no cheap way around it...and that sucks, i guess i'll just wait till a sane person can make a single stack mag for a realistic price, and then watch them take over the market.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FlySolo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk9176251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">g3 mags can be had for as low as .99 cents! </div></div>

or less....i got 28 of them for free......


are there no single stack factory mags? my whole problem is a company asking $80 for a mag that's no more complicated to make than a $5 ar mag...it's price gouging. </div></div>

Definitely have to agree. 80 bucks for a rifle mag is b.s. any way you cut it. </div></div>
+1
I have waited for some time that Magpul comes up whit some mag for aics. If they would ask 60$ they would sell out in no time. But i think there is some copyright things that is holding them back.

I bet they would make lots of money.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KingKong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But i think there is some copyright things that is holding them back.</div></div>

Doubt it, there are already 2 other companies making compatible magazines, Accurate Mags and Morta mags. Magpul probably just doesn't see enough market there to make it worth their startup costs.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

You would not know by being a member of this site,but we are still a limited,specialty market.I searched high and low for a QUALITY DBM for a 338 EDGE/Ultramag that fit my seating requirements.Came up with one Manufacturer,Glen Seekins.You won't hear any crying from me about the price.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

Believe me, i have tried to figure out a cheap mag solution. Lets say i wanted to make a mag like AI's. Im not into copy'n anyone else if you haven't noticed, but it will make a good example.

Engineering time- Assuming i worked a solid 6 months on my WSM mag x 40$/hr (that's cheap Engineering time BTW and it took me longer than that)
6 months, 693 hours = $41,600
Tooling costs for volume production $45,000 (no shit, this is average quote i got on my mag's)

Total $86600.00 + for the first part

Add in the hard cost of the mag's i was quoted around 18$/mag body at 1000 minimum orders. (material, inspection, assembly, spring, follower, packaging, time dealing with customers) probably ????? another 20$ depending on overhead costs. Real cost about 38$. Now add in your profit margin because no one works free for long. Remember, price scale needs to include Distributor price , then dealers price, then retail because everyone that touches it wants their cut.

Now, explain to me how i make a mag and sell it for 10$ or even 20?????
Answer,
you make 10's of 100,000,000's of them and your price will go way down (AR15 mag's) OR you are supplemented by the government (china) so you can steal the work from the USA and pay your employees 3 fish heads a day.

There are always cheaper ways to produce a quality product, but your startup cost goes up because it takes more time (sometimes way too long for the benefit of cost). If you want it fast and cheap, the quality will be crap because you get what you pay for. If you want it fast with good quality the cost goes up. There are always 3 sides, Cost, Quality and Time. Its a fine balancing act to actually achieve your goal and sometimes it is un-realistic.

Hope this helps..
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

"The real reason is AI pays all these companies making bottom metal massive amounts of money to continue to use their mags"

This was from an earlier post and I just had to comment. We do not pay companies to use our magazines? We know our magazines work reliably and that is what counts. First time every time. We have spent a lot of time, effort and money to ensure that our magazines do the job well. Others have tried to copy our magazines and failed.
We have held our prices for several years and our magazines are readily available. I know it was not always like that but it is now, same for rifles and AICS kits.

Tom Irwin
Accuracy International
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Tom, When do i get my check
laugh.gif


Thats rediculous but ohhh how i wish it was true </div></div>

Yeah me to, I must be owed back pay by now.
grin.gif
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

I have actually used the Magpul AICS and if you watch the YouTube video of me shooting the Gladius in Colorado with the SHC Joker shirt on you can spot the Magpul AICS in the frame.

It was at least 2 years ago and to date they have no plans to release it I know of.
 
Re: why no cheap mag bottom metal??????

It's worth twenty dollar difference to order the real deal, in my opinion. My experience with copycat magazines has been less than stellar.