Why so important.

[sniperjwt]

After looking around this forum for a couple of days i have to ask. Why is it so important that some of you want/need to have your gun capible of feeding from the magazine?

I have been hunting the last couple of years with the Berger VLD's and have them touching the rifleing and they dont come close to fitting in the mag. but this does not bother me because i have others with me. The way i see it is the first shot should hit its mark no matter the range and if it is at 1000 yards odds are you will have plenty of time to take the follow up shot if needed or the animal is going to be running and i dont know of anybody that can take a confident shot at 1000 yards on a moving target. Im since finding out how well Berger bullets work on game i have switched all my bullets over and now almost all of my bolt action rifles are single shot.

Im not trying to attack your ways or methods just wondering why its so important. Thanks

 

[Bronco]

Re: Why so important.

Multiple targets, competition, dangerous game come to mind.

 

[mgd45]

Re: Why so important.

Because a lot of guys on this forum aren't just using their rifles strickly for hunting purposes. Alot use them in shooting competitions & also in their professional capacity....military/LEO.

Nothing is wrong with what your doing as long as it fits what you need.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Why so important.

jwt.........welcome to the Hide


top loading has been superseded.

the game many now play require one to have a magazine system for their bolt gun to allow engagement of multiple targets w/o stopping to feed the weapon .

this advancement some consider an equipment race, but most see the advantages as most all sniper weapons systems of the worlds military now employ them.

 

[strictlyRUM]

Re: Why so important.

With a "sniper" in your name you should know that? Welcome to the hide my man.

Jason

 

[sniperjwt]

Re: Why so important.

ok here is another thing that turned me off of magizene use. With Berger bullets the seating depth is extreamly critical and sometimes when bolting in another cartrage it would stick or not go in correctly and thus change my seating depth by 10 or 15 thousanths which made my shot off by a lot more than that.

It might take me a second longer to hand feed.
I was not a sniper in the military or police but it is my understanding that a sniper supposed to be one shot one kill from any reasonable range regardless if it takes an hour to get the shot or a week. I did not think that they were rapid aquisition to multiple targets. More than one shot from the same location will definatly give away your position, right.

If it is a speed compitition then i can understand that.

Thanks for the comments and look forward to learning some stuff here at the Hide.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Why so important.

I'm not sure why this is in the "beyond 1000 yds" forum but I'm getting some popcorn to watch the show anyway.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Why so important.

1. The difference between one extra second could be someones life.
2. seating depth problems? get a better gun.
3. Magazines are pretty convenient than a "pocket full "O" shells"
4. Better to have and not use then to need and not have.
5. I can only hold about 3 rounds in my hands while shooting.
6. Have you ever tried to quickly at 1,000 yards pull ammo out of a case, pocket etc. return to a NPOA, breathing pace, and re-acquire a target that may be moving "FAST"
7. One-shot-one kill hmmm Yes that is the idea, but it does not always work out that way. Better have a backup plan or a magazine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperjwt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok here is another thing that turned me off of magizene use. With Berger bullets the seating depth is extreamly critical and sometimes when bolting in another cartrage it would stick or not go in correctly and thus change my seating depth by 10 or 15 thousanths which made my shot off by a lot more than that.

<span style="font-weight: bold">It might take me a second longer to hand feed.</span>
I was not a sniper in the military or police but it is my understanding that a sniper supposed to be one shot one kill from any reasonable range regardless if it takes an hour to get the shot or a week. I did not think that they were rapid aquisition to multiple targets. More than one shot from the same location will definatly give away your position, right.

If it is a speed compitition then i can understand that.

Thanks for the comments and look forward to learning some stuff here at the Hide.</div></div>

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Why so important.

Welcome to the Hide. Come on in and join the many and varied conversations.

If you know something about a given thread post your experience. If not, you're welcome to sit back and absorb what you wish.

Most of us older folk really appreciate it if you fill out your profile if you haven’t already.

Once again, nice to have you here.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Why so important.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperjwt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The way i see it is the first shot should hit its mark no matter the range and if it is at 1000 yards odds are you will have plenty of time to take the follow up shot if needed </div></div>

^dumb

look around on this site more, or better yet, get out and shoot at various distances. You will gain the knowledge that will prevent you from making statements like this. Sign up for the on-line training and you'll see. Once you get to see some video of people like Frank (Lowlight) or Jacob (Rifles Only) taking shots you'll understand.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Why so important.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperjwt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my understanding that a sniper supposed to be one shot one kill from any reasonable range regardless if it takes an hour to get the shot or a week. I did not think that they were rapid aquisition to multiple targets. More than one shot from the same location will definatly give away your position, right.

</div></div>

This sounds a lot like the lore of romatic sniper movies to me. Think about the LEO's in an active shooter(s) situation, it sure would be nice to have 5-10 extra rounds just waiting in a mag. Beyond that, look at the shooting in Iraq, a lot of targets moving around really fast going in and out of cover. If your round of choice can fit a mag, then why the hell would you not want the ability to do so? Lastly, those that compete enjoy the ability to simply change a mag, or have extra rounds; it makes the goal easier to attain.

Perhaps you think one should limit their setup due to a mantra of the one shot one kill. That is just silly. I say take advantage of anything to make the job eaiser and more productive.

 

[springle]

Re: Why so important.

FYI... It's not necessary to load Bergers close to the lands. There is a article over on long range hunting web page that proves it. I have loaded bergers in several rifles that were over .080 off the lands that shot just as well as touching them.

O... Try to shoot 5 rds in 30 seconds single loading. Be pretty tough don't yeah think....

 

[DaveV]

Re: Why so important.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp260</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI... It's not necessary to load Bergers close to the lands. There is a article over on long range hunting web page that proves it. I have loaded bergers in several rifles that were over .080 off the lands that shot just as well as touching them.

O... Try to shoot 5 rds in 30 seconds single loading. Be pretty tough don't yeah think.... </div></div>

+1. My SMK's are .130 off the lands in my AR30 (.338LM) and I recently shot a 0.347 moa 5 shot group. Can't tell you about Bergers, but Sierra's make the jump in my rig with no problem.

 

[tymurrey]

Re: Why so important.

I guess for me it's important to be mag length since my rifles do double as hunting rifles and shooting deer here in North Dakota the shots can range from 50 yards to 1000 yards. Sometimes quick follow up shots are a necessity, a whitetail buck can go a long ways when double lunged and when it's at that last minute or two of shooting light it's nice to be able to put another round into him quick and put him down now. I had the same problem with bergers in my .308, tried multiple seating depths and nothing would shoot beside longer than mag length so i gave up and went with AMAX's which jump well and shoot well in my rifle. When i'm shooting targets long range i single feed just because there is no need for a quick second shot.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Why so important.

To the OP:

Here is a perfect example of why a mag system is nice for fast follow up shots and multiple engagements. While the one shot/one kill thing for Snipers is nice but probably not realistic in today's AO.

Black water sniper

Make sure your sound is on.

While the shooter in the video is using an SPR, the same would hold true if he was using a bolt gun....

 

[laylowlong]

Re: Why so important.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp260</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI... It's not necessary to load Bergers close to the lands. There is a article over on long range hunting web page that proves it. I have loaded bergers in several rifles that were over .080 off the lands that shot just as well as touching them.

O... Try to shoot 5 rds in 30 seconds single loading. Be pretty tough don't yeah think.... </div></div>

+1. My SMK's are .130 off the lands in my AR30 (.338LM) and I recently shot a 0.347 moa 5 shot group. Can't tell you about Bergers, but Sierra's make the jump in my rig with no problem.
</div></div>

+1... I am right their also for .338.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why so important.

Because follow up shots are just as important as first shots in the military theatres we operate in. Generally the terrain is so open it's not a case of being seen or not. It's a case of keeping them within your max effective range and staying out of theirs.
Also, not moving from your rifle to cycle the action does help with accuracy. So, if a rifle/rounds stay within the accuracy requirements there is no need to load singly.

As far as making the jump we need to keep in mind which Bergers we are shooting. Most all of the VLD's used to have the secant ogives. Now, I see many of the 'match' bullets have a tangent ogive. The hunting bullets are the ones that retained the long skinny secant ogive. Those shoot better when pushed into the lands. I'm thinking Berger went back to the tangent ogive on many of the bullets because they do 'make the jump' better. That way, you can load most of them magazine length. There are not all that many cases where, with two like bullets, that a need arises for the secant ogive to seriously outdistance the tangent ogive.
Sierra bullets all have shorter tangent ogives and they make the jump well. However, they do show a much lower BC when compared to Bergers. In head to head comparison, I find the tangent bullets shoot just a bit more accurate. And the secant bullets definitely have the range advantage. If you have range enough and tight accuracy requirements that is the bullet I would choose. The bonus is they feed from a mag.

Just my $.02 as to why I would choose a magazine system over single shot.

 

[DaveV]

Re: Why so important.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sierra bullets all have shorter tangent ogives and they make the jump well. However, they do show a much lower BC when compared to Bergers. In head to head comparison, I find the tangent bullets shoot just a bit more accurate. And the secant bullets definitely have the range advantage. If you have range enough and tight accuracy requirements that is the bullet I would choose. The bonus is they feed from a mag. </div></div>

Good comparison between the two. Thanks.