Wilson Combat Woes

[DuneBoer]

5” Government Pistols

10G8
22 Ace Conversion with a 5” barrel


10G10
9mm with a 5” barrel, Factory Loads

10G12
9mm with a 5” barrel, +P Loads




10G12
.38 Super with a 5” barrel, Factory Loads

10G13
.38 super with a 5" barrel, +P Loads


10G15
40S&W


10G16
.45acp with a 5” barrel, Target Loads or Factory Loads

Factory Colt replacement, 5" .45ACP


10G17
.45acp with a 5” barrel, Target Loads or Factory Loads (currently used in WC pistol)


10G18
.45acp with a 5” barrel, Factory Loads


10G22
460 Roland with 5.5" barrel


10G20/18
460 Roland with compensated barrel


10G22
.45acp with a 5” barrel, +P Loads


10G22
10mm with 5” barrel, Factory Load


10G24
10mm with 5" barrel +P


GL17
.45acp Flat wire spring


10G10
.38 Super w/suppressor


GL13
9mm Flat wire


4.25” Commander Pistols

10C12
9mm Luger with a 4.25” barrel


10C17
.38 Super with a 4.25” barrel


10C20
.45acp with a 4.25” barrel


4” Compact/Professional Pistols

10SC11/12
9mm CQB/SG


GLC13-9
Flat wire 9mm


GLC13
Flat wire for heavier 9mm/.38 super loads


GLC15
.38 Super


10SC11/12
.38 super CQB/SG


10C17
40S&W


10SC20
.45acp with a 4” barrel, Target or Factory loads


10SC22
.45acp with a 4” barrel, Factory or +P Loads


GLC22
.45acp Flat wire for use with flush plugs


3.5” Officers/Sentinel Pistols

10SEN22
.45acp with 3.5” barrel, Factory, or +P Loads

GL15 - 22 coils 9mm



5" Tac-Elite

10G8
9mm


10G15
45acp


Spec-Ops


10G12
9mm

GL13
Flat wire



Carry Comp

10C20
.45acp




Stealth

10SC20
4" .45acp

10SC11
9mm




Accu-comp


10G10-12
.45acp Target

10G15
.45acp Factory



Hammer Springs

Full size .45ACP/10mm/.460 25#

Full size .38 super 19#

Full size 9mm 19#

Compact
.45 25#
9mm/.38 super 23#

Sentinel R16APA, Para P12

This is a list from Wilson on which recoil springs they recommend. They recommend replacement every 1500-2000 rounds for a 5inch CQB.
I run an 18lb spring in my TE . I have shot 230gr Fed HST in my TE with no issues. Accuracy was excellent too.

Good deal thanks! I have some of those on hand.

 

[clcustom1911]

Once you do up a proper 16.5-18 pound recoil spring and probably increase your extractor tension, you should be right as rain.

 

[Jgunner]

And this is why i have an ugly gun and selling my kimber pro carry. I want something that i can neglect, toss any ammo i want through it, use it as a hammer to drive tent stakes snd continue to shoot it with some sort of russian military spam can ammo. Ok, ok, i feed it federal and critcal defense, but i could feed it tula or brown bear, right? Right!
Sorry for your woes op, that gun in my eyes shouldn’t do that, but i know why it does. I can never trust a gun that has given me fits, i sell them or stuff em in the safe if they do.

 

[MtnCreek]

I spent years shooting USPSA and treated it like a second job. 3-4 years of that in the Single Stack Division running Baer’s. 1911’s (especially the higher end/tighter ones) do require an occasional tune up, maintenance schedule, cleaning and lube. They have a LOT of parts and a fair amount going on during the firing cycle. A steady diet of hot/duty type loads along with a heavy firing schedule will loosen them up, wear out parts, and occasionally break parts too. I just accepted it.

I shot Glocks in competition as well for years, and they are a completely different animal. You can treat them with the same care as a framing hammer and get away with it. I had ONE part break on Glock, a trigger return spring. That particular G34 had 34,000 rounds through it at the time.

Sorry to hear about your issues with your Wilson, but it sounds like they’re working with you or fixing/tuning things as you go. It will need that from time to time. Just the nature of the beast.

Only part in a glock I've broke was the same spring in a gen2 17. And the pistol could still be made to fire.

 

[Centuriator]

Only part in a glock I've broke was the same spring in a gen2 17. And the pistol could still be made to fire.

Shhhh.....don't upset the 1911 guys.

 

[j-huskey]

Bunch of 1911's in a neighborhood see a moving van at the house for sale down the street. See a glock pull up the for sale sign and start unloading.
One 1911 sez to the other, well, there goes the neighborhood, time to move out b4 our property values go south. ?

Glock kid walks up to 1911 kid, to be told, damn, you are an ugly fat kid, stay away from my sister.?

And the fight is on. ?????

 

[Odysseus1911]

This is not further beating on the OP, but more of a PSA because so many 1911 owners have the wrong expectations going into it and the unmet expectations give the platform (or specific manufacturers) a bad name.

They call the 1911 "an expert's gun" for a reason. Not by our grandparents' standards; by ours.

We are accustomed to polymer guns (like the Glock) which run reliably with zero maintenance. Don't lube it, it will still run. Don't replace the recoil spring when recommended, it will still run. Bury it in mud and don't clean it afterwards, it will still run. It doesn't have to be tuned for a particular ammo. It is the Toyota Corolla of the handgun world. I actually know someone that never put oil in their Toyota. Ran it dry. Eventually a rod went through the side of the block, but it went to 140,000 miles before it happened.

The 1911 -(a properly built and tuned one) is more like a Ferrari than a Corolla. Faster, smoother, more accurate, more ergonomic, and a hell of a lot better looking, but it requires a strict maintenance regimen and it requires the owner to be highly knowledgable about the platform. If you gave your average Corolla owner the keys to a Ferrari, they'd treat it like their Corolla and eventually break it through improper care (if they didn't wrap it around a tree first).

So here's the takeaway: if you aren't going to learn the mechanics of the platform, learn how to choose the proper springs for your loads, learn how to diagnose and prevent issues, and follow the prescribed maintenance regimen, the Glock will simply work better in your hands than the 1911. If you WILL do all those things, the 1911 will outperform the Glock in every measurable way, just as a Ferrari does a Corolla on the track.

 

[j-huskey]

This is not further beating on the OP, but more of a PSA because so many 1911 owners have the wrong expectations going into it and the unmet expectations give the platform (or specific manufacturers) a bad name.

They call the 1911 "an expert's gun" for a reason. Not by our grandparents' standards; by ours.

We are accustomed to polymer guns (like the Glock) which run reliably with zero maintenance. Don't lube it, it will still run. Don't replace the recoil spring when recommended, it will still run. Bury it in mud and don't clean it afterwards, it will still run. It doesn't have to be tuned for a particular ammo. It is the Toyota Corolla of the handgun world. I actually know someone that never put oil in their Toyota. Ran it dry. Eventually a rod went through the side of the block, but it went to 140,000 miles before it happened.

The 1911 -(a properly built and tuned one) is more like a Ferrari than a Corolla. Faster, smoother, more accurate, more ergonomic, and a hell of a lot better looking, but it requires a strict maintenance regimen and it requires the owner to be highly knowledgable about the platform. If you gave your average Corolla owner the keys to a Ferrari, they'd treat it like their Corolla and eventually break it through improper care (if they didn't wrap it around a tree first).

So here's the takeaway: if you aren't going to learn the mechanics of the platform, learn how to choose the proper springs for your loads, learn how to diagnose and prevent issues, and follow the prescribed maintenance regimen, the Glock will simply work better in your hands than the 1911. If you WILL do all those things, the 1911 will outperform the Glock in every measurable way, just as a Ferrari does a Corolla on the track.

Where does grandpa's 100+ year old 1911, US marked fit in there, it's not a Ferrari or a Corolla.... VW?

 

[MtnCreek]

Where does grandpa's 100+ year old 1911, US marked fit in there, it's not a Ferrari or a Corolla.... VW?

VW is German. Grandpa might not like that.

 

[Odysseus1911]

Where does grandpa's 100+ year old 1911, US marked fit in there, it's not a Ferrari or a Corolla.... VW?

Jeep of course!

 

[Ravenworks]

Well I had a hard time getting past the point where you said you have 8000 rounds of 230gr. +P T Series... I use the +P+ and at $50 a box and hard to find it took me a while to stock up 1000 9mm 127's and I was lucky to get 500 .45. That T-Series +P+ load is what I use in pistols too and it is pretty snappy for a factory load. But the Glocks don't have a problem with it.

I'd EXPECT a modern .45 to handle full power loads and +P+, ESPECIALLY with all this shit about how these 1911's can handle "full power" 10mm loads (bullshit).

I used to drool over the Wilson shit back in the day when it was Bushmaster or Colt (or Oly if you were dumb enough). I might have bought one of their rifles back in the day but right about that time things changed quickly and I went another way. I'm not a 1911 guy either but I'd still like a nice one and I had my eye on the Wilson too before Ed Brown caught my eye. But at $4k I doubt I'll ever get one.

Good luck, I'd go for the refund. That's just not very comforting for a high end handgun like that. If it was a target only model they should have said so.

Armsunlimited.com has all the Ranger T you want.
I don't know where the prices are right now but it worked out to $22 a box last time I bought any

If it's out of stock sign up for the email notification, it comes in stock about once a month

 

[Odysseus1911]

BTW, there is absolutely NO reason a Wilson (or any quality 1911) can't run +P+ ammo. I've run 250 grain XTPs in mine at 980 fps with no problems. It just has to be sprung correctly for it.

The reason the OP was able to run it through his Kimbers without problems is because Kimbers come from the factory with the GI standard 16 lb. recoil spring and 23 lb. mainspring. Per a previous conversation with a Wilson gunsmith (not a customer service rep), they typically set their 5" 45 acp CQBs up with a 16 lb. recoil spring and a 19 lb. mainspring in order to get a lighter, crisper trigger pull.

 

[cherokeefan03]

Man between things like this and the video they made where they said not to drop the slide on an empty chamber or damage the gun maybe they should change their name from Wilson Combat to "Wilson make sure not to be too hard on these things".

 

[Tier1nub]

Most likely an extractor issue.

 

[Kadams1563]

Man between things like this and the video they made where they said not to drop the slide on an empty chamber or damage the gun maybe they should change their name from Wilson Combat to "Wilson make sure not to be too hard on these things".

That's ALL 1911's. Wilson's are among the toughest 1911's you can get bar none.

Just because he is having issues with ONE and its not the guns fault IMO they do not need to change anything. They did not get to where they are by not doing it right.

 

[TheGerman]

I'm not even kidding, you need the super high tension springs in the magazine for these.

Chip McCormick Custom

www.cmproducts.com

 

[DuneBoer]

Got my Wilson Target back today. They changed the extractor. They did not change any springs. They threw in a new 7 round magazine with a stiffer spring. They reinstalled a shock buff. I put fifty rounds of Wilsons low velocity target loads. The little fella ran fine with it.

interestingly they insured it for only $1000. It all makes sense now.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I love Wilson combat, great company they make awesome ar barrels as well

 

[AKMarty]

Got my Wilson Target back today. They changed the extractor. They did not change any springs. They threw in a new 7 round magazine with a stiffer spring. They reinstalled a shock buff. I put fifty rounds of Wilsons low velocity target loads. The little fella ran fine with it.

interestingly they insured it for only $1000. It all makes sense now.

Let us know how it runs with heavier loads.

 

[Darayavaus]

Should I just gently open my legs and insert a tampon and get on with life? I can't even look at my Wilson AR anymore without getting pissed and it works fine.

You should either
1) sell me the 45 ammo very very cheap, and then use the $ to buy some sissy load for your Metero Wilson 1911. I will then shoot your ammo out of my reliable sigs and kimbers.
or
2) buy another Sig 220 and use it to blast off those 8k rounds and be happy.

 

[Bradu]

Ive been through several high end 1911s (including 2 early Kimbers) and have terrible luck- none were reliable enough to carry with countless trips back to the manufacturers- heck one even had the frame split lol. Decided Im 1911 cursed. My HK USP 45 has never had a malfunction and eats a health diet of 45 Supers as well. Nothing wrong with carrying that- its the one I trust.

Same experience I've had with every 1911 I've had. Love them but they are aggravating at times.

 

[bogeybrown]

I guess it doesn't live up to it's name "Wilson Combat" maybe they should change their name to "Wilson Target"...……...

You nailed it.

I'm only going from personal memory's and don't know if I'm entirely right, but I first encountered Wilson's work in the very late 80's and early 90's shooting IPSC. IIRC they weren't building their own guns yet, but were upgrading factory pistols for competition use.

Race guns/comp pistols are totally different animals than carry guns. Some of those lines have blurred over the years, but Wilson's beginnings are not in carry guns unless I'm really mistaken. Also, 45ACP +P and +P+ wasn't a thing back then. 10mm was the emerging fad for "duty" guns and 38 Super / 9x21 were the darlings of the race gun crowd.

Wilson got into the production 1911 game under their own name, but their roots are in the target sports vs the streets, and I'd imagine their approach to accuracy vs durability is still ingrained in the company's DNA.

 

[clcustom1911]

Got my Wilson Target back today. They changed the extractor. They did not change any springs. They threw in a new 7 round magazine with a stiffer spring. They reinstalled a shock buff. I put fifty rounds of Wilsons low velocity target loads. The little fella ran fine with it.

interestingly they insured it for only $1000. It all makes sense now.

Good. Now run a few hundred rounds of standard ball through it while lubing things every 100 rounds or so.

 

[DuneBoer]

Good. Now run a few hundred rounds of standard ball through it while lubing things every 100 rounds or so.

No way. Not putting any of that crazy hot stuff through my little princess. Only Wilson 720FPS ammo for her from now on.

 

[clcustom1911]

BTW, there is absolutely NO reason a Wilson (or any quality 1911) can't run +P+ ammo. I've run 250 grain XTPs in mine at 980 fps with no problems. It just has to be sprung correctly for it.

The reason the OP was able to run it through his Kimbers without problems is because Kimbers come from the factory with the GI standard 16 lb. recoil spring and 23 lb. mainspring. Per a previous conversation with a Wilson gunsmith (not a customer service rep), they typically set their 5" 45 acp CQBs up with a 16 lb. recoil spring and a 19 lb. mainspring in order to get a lighter, crisper trigger pull.

Good call. I personally do nothing but standard weight springs in the duty/defense guns. Lighter springs go in competition guns.

 

[DuneBoer]

When I first got my CQB (new), I ran 500 rounds through it to break it in per Wilson's instructions. At about 250 rounds, the slide locked halfway in its travel. The Shok Buff had started shredding and some little bits got between the frame and slide. Removed the Shok Buff and fired 5,250 rounds through it over the next 4 years without a single malfunction. Then this:

View attachment 7277060

Look familiar? This was the result of working up 45 Super loads to run through it for hunting season. A failed experiment. I put a 22 lb. recoil spring and a 26 lb. mainspring, but it still wasn't enough. The load that did this (twice) chronoed at 1015 fps -less than 100 fps faster than your Ranger T.

You told me in an earlier post that you had a 15 lb. recoil spring in there AND that it hadn't been replaced by Wilson or you and had who knows how many rounds on it.

So here's what happened to your gun: you didn't bother to make sure you had the correct recoil spring for the ammo you were using. You didn't even bother to do the basic MANDATORY safety maintenance of replacing a worn out recoil spring. The weak spring/hot ammo rounded off your extractor and caused your jam. Wilson didn't do anything wrong, you did. The rep's tone in the email indicates that he knew your negligence had caused the issue, but they fixed you up free of charge anyway. Perhaps you should rethink your plan of selling the gun and badmouthing a company that did you solid.

Just to recap. Wilson DID NOT replace my recoil or mainspring. They only replaced my extractor and gave me a different magazine with a heavier spring. My springs must have been ok after all.

 

[AKMarty]

No way. Not putting any of that crazy hot stuff through my little princess. Only Wilson 720FPS ammo for her from now on.

I think the standard ball ammo is a good idea. No +P/+P+. When I am going through a lot of rounds, I lube A LOT. It almost seems like too much.

Interested in how standard ball runs in it now.

 

[Kadams1563]

If any of you think Kimbers are reliable you haven’t been around USPSA very much. I have seen so many of the MIM safety levers they use shatter in the middle of matches.

every limber I have come across has been sold. They might have been solid back in the day but they are bottom feeders now.

 

[Odysseus1911]

Just to recap. Wilson DID NOT replace my recoil or mainspring. They only replaced my extractor and gave me a different magazine with a heavier spring. My springs must have been ok after all.

They don't have a way of testing the springs and visual inspection of spring length is not reliable. Just because they didn't replace them means nothing. If you want to know it's set up right, order some fresh springs and put them in yourself. Here's what to order:

For pussycat target loads (185 grain at 775 fps) all the way up to standard ball ammo (230 grain at 890 fps): 17 lb. flatwire recoil spring kit (comes with new guide rod) and 19 lb. main spring. The flatwire spring will last 10 times longer than the standard "round wire" spring you're running and it is more versatile, able to handle a wider range of recoil.

If I wanted to run the Ranger T, I would order a 20 lb. flatwire recoil spring kit and a 26 lb. main spring. This should work but it won't be able to run any light target loads.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Did the pistol ever get ironed out?

 

[Downtown]

They don't have a way of testing the springs and visual inspection of spring length is not reliable. Just because they didn't replace them means nothing. If you want to know it's set up right, order some fresh springs and put them in yourself. Here's what to order:

For pussycat target loads (185 grain at 775 fps) all the way up to standard ball ammo (230 grain at 890 fps): 17 lb. flatwire recoil spring kit (comes with new guide rod) and 19 lb. main spring. The flatwire spring will last 10 times longer than the standard "round wire" spring you're running and it is more versatile, able to handle a wider range of recoil.

If I wanted to run the Ranger T, I would order a 20 lb. flatwire recoil spring kit and a 26 lb. main spring. This should work but it won't be able to run any light target loads.

Why would they not have a way to test a recoil spring? Isn't a recoil spring tester a fairly common tool?

SECURE FIREARM PRODUCTS GOV'T LENGTH 1911 RECOIL SPRING TESTER | Brownells

Recoil spring tester is a simple testing device that helps you quickly measure the compression strength of any Government-length 1911 recoil spring. Lets you easily check if your gun’s spring is getting weak, and you can identify the weight of any...

www.brownells.com

 

[DuneBoer]

Yes. Its all better now. Sitting in my safe next my Tactical Rifles M40

 

[Milo 2.5]

Yes. Its all better now. Sitting in my safe next my TR M40

Great, I am sure you are gut full of all this. I know this, surest way to screw an extractor up on a 1911 is chambering a rd by hand and ramming the slide home from lock. I am shocked the 47D mags did not work, for 25 yrs they have been the best I have tried, even Kimber 8rdrs that were Chip McCormick's worked great in all my 1911"s.
I am trying to get away from the 1911 45acp game, and have a couple Ed Brown 8 rds if you want to try them, I do not see them for sale anymore, but stiff springs and a goofy follower.
I bought a EDC X9 a couple yrs ago, and just recently bought 2 Wilson 9mm 1911's, for kids. Of all the high end 1911's i have owned, i never went Wilson, after shooting these, I wish I had bought a WC 45 yrs ago.

 

[seanh]

So here it is 2020 and they're still having extractor issues? I used to have to fix their s*** almost two decades ago. It was bad enough that we actually used it is part of a marketing tool.... by Wilson and will fix it for you or buy a Wilson we make it reliable... LOL

 

[DuneBoer]

Thank for the offer on magazines. I recently acquire a box of 1911 mags some new in the wrap. Kimber and chip Mcormicks etc. I will run through these at some point.

 

[Odysseus1911]

Why would they not have a way to test a recoil spring? Isn't a recoil spring tester a fairly common tool?

SECURE FIREARM PRODUCTS GOV'T LENGTH 1911 RECOIL SPRING TESTER | Brownells

Recoil spring tester is a simple testing device that helps you quickly measure the compression strength of any Government-length 1911 recoil spring. Lets you easily check if your gun’s spring is getting weak, and you can identify the weight of any...

www.brownells.com

It's a cheaply-made novelty. There's a reason the reviews only give it 2.8 out of 5 stars. Not that it means much, but I've spent a pretty good amount of time in the 1911 world and I've never even heard of anyone owning or using such a tool. Just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.