No problem with Federal brass .I bought some win brass and resized it and brought it to the range.Most of them did not eject,they stayed in the chamber.When I cycled the bolt fast some came out.No idea.Thanks
- Thread starter 20Incher
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Re: Win brass no eject
Time to break out the micrometer and takes some measurements. If you don't have a micrometer than just take a sharpie and mark all over the case and reinsert in the chamber and eject. Look for clean spots. If it is all over you have soft brass or you did not size it enough. Or to long.
Time to break out the micrometer and takes some measurements. If you don't have a micrometer than just take a sharpie and mark all over the case and reinsert in the chamber and eject. Look for clean spots. If it is all over you have soft brass or you did not size it enough. Or to long.
Re: Win brass no eject
Are the cases stuck, or will they fall out if the rifle is tilted up right? If it is virgin brass it might be to short and not seating in the extractor. I had issues with some virgin Win brass not extracting. Bolt has M16 style extractor and was just shy of catching. Once brass was once fired problem solved.
Are the cases stuck, or will they fall out if the rifle is tilted up right? If it is virgin brass it might be to short and not seating in the extractor. I had issues with some virgin Win brass not extracting. Bolt has M16 style extractor and was just shy of catching. Once brass was once fired problem solved.
Re: Win brass no eject
Check to see if they are hitting the windage knob on your scope and bouncing back into the chamber... I had that problem. Higher rings fixed it.
Check to see if they are hitting the windage knob on your scope and bouncing back into the chamber... I had that problem. Higher rings fixed it.
Re: Win brass no eject
Not stuck at all ,they actually seem a little loose.These are the only cases that have ever done this.Now that some are fired I'll resize and fire again and see what happens.Thanks
Not stuck at all ,they actually seem a little loose.These are the only cases that have ever done this.Now that some are fired I'll resize and fire again and see what happens.Thanks
Re: Win brass no eject
I've had some instances where Winchester .308 cases were so grossly undersized that the extractor wouldn't sufficiently engage the rim to pull them out, or if it did, they popped free when the ejector flipped the case over against the side of the chamber or bolt lug raceway on the way out. Basically ended up with the case about 1/4 to 1/2 way out of the chamber area. Sometimes if I ripped the bolt back fast enough I could get them out before they hit the side and the rim came out from under the extractor.
Measure the rim diameter on the cases that do eject, and the ones that don't.
Lapua .308 Win cases measure .468-.469" (for a nominal .470-.471). I've had Winchester cases measure as small as .463".
If'n its a Savage where you can pull the extractor piece out, you might try undercutting it a little with a file so it engages deeper into the groove on the case rim. Otherwise, dunno.
HTH,
Monte
I've had some instances where Winchester .308 cases were so grossly undersized that the extractor wouldn't sufficiently engage the rim to pull them out, or if it did, they popped free when the ejector flipped the case over against the side of the chamber or bolt lug raceway on the way out. Basically ended up with the case about 1/4 to 1/2 way out of the chamber area. Sometimes if I ripped the bolt back fast enough I could get them out before they hit the side and the rim came out from under the extractor.
Measure the rim diameter on the cases that do eject, and the ones that don't.
Lapua .308 Win cases measure .468-.469" (for a nominal .470-.471). I've had Winchester cases measure as small as .463".
If'n its a Savage where you can pull the extractor piece out, you might try undercutting it a little with a file so it engages deeper into the groove on the case rim. Otherwise, dunno.
HTH,
Monte
Re: Win brass no eject
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problem with Federal brass .I bought some win brass and resized it and brought it to the range.Most of them did not eject,they stayed in the chamber.When I cycled the bolt fast some came out.No idea.Thanks </div></div>
I <span style="text-decoration: underline">assume</span> you mean that you bought new Winchester cases, resized them, (loaded them) took them to the range and fired them?
Then you say they did not <span style="text-decoration: underline">eject</span> but stayed in the chamber? So, your <span style="text-decoration: underline">extractor</span> failed, left the brass in the chamber where (of course) it did not eject. Is this correct? Unless you "cycled bolt fast" some came out.
Now, those that "didn't come out", how did you get them out? Closing the bolt again, or using a cleaning rod from the muzzle?
Is this on a Remington 700 by chance? My first wild ass guess, based on a poor description of events is that you have a problem with your extractor. Maybe you have a small piece of case head material imbedded under the extractor, or it could be warn?
More information is needed. BB
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problem with Federal brass .I bought some win brass and resized it and brought it to the range.Most of them did not eject,they stayed in the chamber.When I cycled the bolt fast some came out.No idea.Thanks </div></div>
I <span style="text-decoration: underline">assume</span> you mean that you bought new Winchester cases, resized them, (loaded them) took them to the range and fired them?
Then you say they did not <span style="text-decoration: underline">eject</span> but stayed in the chamber? So, your <span style="text-decoration: underline">extractor</span> failed, left the brass in the chamber where (of course) it did not eject. Is this correct? Unless you "cycled bolt fast" some came out.
Now, those that "didn't come out", how did you get them out? Closing the bolt again, or using a cleaning rod from the muzzle?
Is this on a Remington 700 by chance? My first wild ass guess, based on a poor description of events is that you have a problem with your extractor. Maybe you have a small piece of case head material imbedded under the extractor, or it could be warn?
More information is needed. BB
Re: Win brass no eject
What type of rifle are talking about here? Also how old is the rifle? Have you check the extractor itself to see if it worn?
It could be as uggested that the brass is coming up a bit short, but then I would think you see some issues on the case head if you arent making contact with the bolt face. How do your primers look after shooting?
What type of rifle are talking about here? Also how old is the rifle? Have you check the extractor itself to see if it worn?
It could be as uggested that the brass is coming up a bit short, but then I would think you see some issues on the case head if you arent making contact with the bolt face. How do your primers look after shooting?
Re: Win brass no eject
More details sorry, It was brand new Win brass I resized loaded and fired in my Rem .308 sps.I got them out by tilting the gun up and bangin on the floor lightly.Some came out by closing the bolt and cycling but half way back they let loose and stayed on top of the mag well.They didn't fly out.Primers look normal and gun is only a year old,I'll check my extractor.Thanks
More details sorry, It was brand new Win brass I resized loaded and fired in my Rem .308 sps.I got them out by tilting the gun up and bangin on the floor lightly.Some came out by closing the bolt and cycling but half way back they let loose and stayed on top of the mag well.They didn't fly out.Primers look normal and gun is only a year old,I'll check my extractor.Thanks
Re: Win brass no eject
There is a problem with your bolt. If the extractor worked well enough to cam the case in the chamber but the ejector failed to grab it long enough so that the spring tossed it out, then something is happening within that bolt face that ain't right? BB
There is a problem with your bolt. If the extractor worked well enough to cam the case in the chamber but the ejector failed to grab it long enough so that the spring tossed it out, then something is happening within that bolt face that ain't right? BB
Re: Win brass no eject
I doubt anything is wrong with the bolt... its most likely the undersized Winchester brass. Some batches are worse than others. Like I said, measure the case rim diameter.
I doubt anything is wrong with the bolt... its most likely the undersized Winchester brass. Some batches are worse than others. Like I said, measure the case rim diameter.
Re: Win brass no eject
He has not yet measured the Winchester brass and you are convinced there is something wrong with the dimensions? And, you "doubt" there could be something wrong with the bolt, again, without a shred of evidence? At least my statement included the notation that it is nothing more than a wild ass guess. Okay, I could be wrong but just as a control type of thing, I'd like to see if the Federal cases still extract and eject properly. BB
edit: there is a lot of conjecture on this forum about soft brass and dimensions but I am convinced that firearm manufacturers talk to ammunition manufacturers and they both build in tolerances that address compatibility issues. And, they both have quality control staff with nothing better to do but make sure that their product meets certain standards. Suddenly, Winchester can't produce cases that will function in a Remington 700 action? Could be, I guess? BB
He has not yet measured the Winchester brass and you are convinced there is something wrong with the dimensions? And, you "doubt" there could be something wrong with the bolt, again, without a shred of evidence? At least my statement included the notation that it is nothing more than a wild ass guess. Okay, I could be wrong but just as a control type of thing, I'd like to see if the Federal cases still extract and eject properly. BB
edit: there is a lot of conjecture on this forum about soft brass and dimensions but I am convinced that firearm manufacturers talk to ammunition manufacturers and they both build in tolerances that address compatibility issues. And, they both have quality control staff with nothing better to do but make sure that their product meets certain standards. Suddenly, Winchester can't produce cases that will function in a Remington 700 action? Could be, I guess? BB
Re: Win brass no eject
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And, they both have quality control staff with nothing better to do but make sure that their product meets certain standards. </div></div>
Having measured a metric poop-load of their cases vs. other brands... Winchester's QC folks have been failing miserably for years IMHO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And, they both have quality control staff with nothing better to do but make sure that their product meets certain standards. </div></div>
Having measured a metric poop-load of their cases vs. other brands... Winchester's QC folks have been failing miserably for years IMHO.
Re: Win brass no eject
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And, they both have quality control staff with nothing better to do but make sure that their product meets certain standards. </div></div>
Having measured a metric poop-load of their cases vs. other brands... Winchester's QC folks have been failing miserably for years IMHO.
</div></div>
I agree! Winchesters QC is complete shit. I thought for a while it was bad luck, but over the years i am streering clear on Win stuff from here on out. I have had junk barrels, bullets, brass, and ammo. I know things slip through the cracks some times, but i have never seen so much junk come from one company before. This is just my experience though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And, they both have quality control staff with nothing better to do but make sure that their product meets certain standards. </div></div>
Having measured a metric poop-load of their cases vs. other brands... Winchester's QC folks have been failing miserably for years IMHO.
</div></div>
I agree! Winchesters QC is complete shit. I thought for a while it was bad luck, but over the years i am streering clear on Win stuff from here on out. I have had junk barrels, bullets, brass, and ammo. I know things slip through the cracks some times, but i have never seen so much junk come from one company before. This is just my experience though.
Re: Win brass no eject
Okay, when I see it, I will have to concede. Thus far, it's just another choice, no better, no worse. BB
PS but, I cull my cases pretty severely before I even begin. I am using Winchester cases in a fairly accurate rifle, right now and frankly, I see no issues. However, I have not bought Winchester recently? All I know is that Sniper's Hide members are big whiners about inferior quality components, in general, none of which I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing?
Okay, when I see it, I will have to concede. Thus far, it's just another choice, no better, no worse. BB
PS but, I cull my cases pretty severely before I even begin. I am using Winchester cases in a fairly accurate rifle, right now and frankly, I see no issues. However, I have not bought Winchester recently? All I know is that Sniper's Hide members are big whiners about inferior quality components, in general, none of which I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing?
Re: Win brass no eject
I've experienced the exact same problem. The cases measured the same as the poster above, .463-.464. They would hang in the chamber horribly. I contacted OLIN and told them the problem. They sent me shipping and replaced the faulty brass, several hundred. If there wasn't a problem, why would they do that? They know their QC sucks and will replace the faulty brass if you contact them.
I've used Win brass for several years with great luck. The last few batches I bought were junk. I've relegated them for plinking and hunting but only after careful sorting. I do not trust them enough to use them in competition any more.
I think if more people contact them and tell them the problem and if they don't fix it, the only way to hurt them is in their wallet. Quit buying it. I switched to Lapua for all my competition stuff and have not looked back. In todays economy and prices that keep going through the roof, if companies don't put out a quality product for what you pay, find a company that will produce. Hurt their bottom line and they'll either fix it or go tits up. Simple...
John
I've experienced the exact same problem. The cases measured the same as the poster above, .463-.464. They would hang in the chamber horribly. I contacted OLIN and told them the problem. They sent me shipping and replaced the faulty brass, several hundred. If there wasn't a problem, why would they do that? They know their QC sucks and will replace the faulty brass if you contact them.
I've used Win brass for several years with great luck. The last few batches I bought were junk. I've relegated them for plinking and hunting but only after careful sorting. I do not trust them enough to use them in competition any more.
I think if more people contact them and tell them the problem and if they don't fix it, the only way to hurt them is in their wallet. Quit buying it. I switched to Lapua for all my competition stuff and have not looked back. In todays economy and prices that keep going through the roof, if companies don't put out a quality product for what you pay, find a company that will produce. Hurt their bottom line and they'll either fix it or go tits up. Simple...
John
Re: Win brass no eject
I agree with the above, if a problem exists, dump it back on them. I suppose, due to liability issues, they will cooperate very well rather than risk a law suit.
However, Lapua doesn't make cases for everything so we are forced to use domestic brands. I find Winchester no better or worse than the rest, in fact, I prefer it to Federal. For many years, believe it or not, the only source for 220Swift was Norma and WW. Just a for instance, but there are a lot of gaps in what you can buy from Lapua. BB
I agree with the above, if a problem exists, dump it back on them. I suppose, due to liability issues, they will cooperate very well rather than risk a law suit.
However, Lapua doesn't make cases for everything so we are forced to use domestic brands. I find Winchester no better or worse than the rest, in fact, I prefer it to Federal. For many years, believe it or not, the only source for 220Swift was Norma and WW. Just a for instance, but there are a lot of gaps in what you can buy from Lapua. BB
Re: Win brass no eject
Don't get me wrong... Loads made w/ Winchester brass shoot plenty accurate, even when not heavily sorted/culled. When sorted, it shoots *very* well. Even Lapua has 'off' batches in my experience, where a percentage fall below whatever arbitrary standards one might set.
The difference is I've seen plenty of Winchester with flash holes so ragged it was ridiculous, case necks so mangled it was unbelievable that *anyone* had looked at them, shoulders not fully formed (round like a milk bottle), and their case weight variance is atrocious. Not to mention the undersized case heads. I think in their efforts to keep up with consumer demands in the past few years, what little QC they once had must have gone right out the window.
Still waiting on a response from the OP... it could be other things but my money is still on the brass.
Don't get me wrong... Loads made w/ Winchester brass shoot plenty accurate, even when not heavily sorted/culled. When sorted, it shoots *very* well. Even Lapua has 'off' batches in my experience, where a percentage fall below whatever arbitrary standards one might set.
The difference is I've seen plenty of Winchester with flash holes so ragged it was ridiculous, case necks so mangled it was unbelievable that *anyone* had looked at them, shoulders not fully formed (round like a milk bottle), and their case weight variance is atrocious. Not to mention the undersized case heads. I think in their efforts to keep up with consumer demands in the past few years, what little QC they once had must have gone right out the window.
Still waiting on a response from the OP... it could be other things but my money is still on the brass.
Re: Win brass no eject
I tried my Feds and Black hills not one of them hung up at all.It's the brass.
I tried my Feds and Black hills not one of them hung up at all.It's the brass.
Re: Win brass no eject
You examined the bolt face, right?
You examined the bolt face, right?
Re: Win brass no eject
Yes I did and everything looks good.
Yes I did and everything looks good.
Re: Win brass no eject
Sniper's Hide members are the unluckiest people! I have been handloading for well over 40 years and know thousands of hunters, and have never heard of serious problems with Winchester components, nor have I personally experienced such.
Winchester brass that won't eject; seems to be a very rare situation, and possibly a dangerous situation if I had a charging brown bear mad at me for some reason? Or, a lion, possibly a cape buffalo? A rabid fox?
I have cast brass before, years ago, but the process hasn't changed much. I don't understand how they can cast cases that are not the same dimensions as the die? Every time I did it, the duplicated piece was identical to the original. Either lost wax or sand casting. And they have a lot more experience than I.
That Winchester is releasing this stuff to unsuspecting and innocent target shooters is bad enough, (which I am not), but to be selling ammo components that won't allow me to chamber another round without banging the rifle butt on the ground is.....unsatisfactory. I am baffled. And forewarned. End of rant. Thank you. BB
Sniper's Hide members are the unluckiest people! I have been handloading for well over 40 years and know thousands of hunters, and have never heard of serious problems with Winchester components, nor have I personally experienced such.
Winchester brass that won't eject; seems to be a very rare situation, and possibly a dangerous situation if I had a charging brown bear mad at me for some reason? Or, a lion, possibly a cape buffalo? A rabid fox?
I have cast brass before, years ago, but the process hasn't changed much. I don't understand how they can cast cases that are not the same dimensions as the die? Every time I did it, the duplicated piece was identical to the original. Either lost wax or sand casting. And they have a lot more experience than I.
That Winchester is releasing this stuff to unsuspecting and innocent target shooters is bad enough, (which I am not), but to be selling ammo components that won't allow me to chamber another round without banging the rifle butt on the ground is.....unsatisfactory. I am baffled. And forewarned. End of rant. Thank you. BB
Re: Win brass no eject
BB,
Winchester brass or any of the other manufactures is not cast. It's formed. Worked while reasonably hot, it's pushed, prodded and sized. That's where the work hardening comes from. If the base size is off, their die was the wrong size.
BB,
Winchester brass or any of the other manufactures is not cast. It's formed. Worked while reasonably hot, it's pushed, prodded and sized. That's where the work hardening comes from. If the base size is off, their die was the wrong size.
Re: Win brass no eject
Okay, not cast, some type of extruding process, but it is formed around a die? The die is a different size? Where did they get a die with different dimensions? I do not see how they produce millions of examples but some are incorrect. But I guess what bothers me is that this man has not yet measured the cases and instead does all his research with more shooting. BB
Okay, not cast, some type of extruding process, but it is formed around a die? The die is a different size? Where did they get a die with different dimensions? I do not see how they produce millions of examples but some are incorrect. But I guess what bothers me is that this man has not yet measured the cases and instead does all his research with more shooting. BB
Re: Win brass no eject
Might be new dies. They wear a bit through use and if the beginning dimension is at or very slightly under the minimum and the bolt face in the OP's rifle is at the max, there could be "tolerance stackup" that will preclude use in that rifle. JMHO
Might be new dies. They wear a bit through use and if the beginning dimension is at or very slightly under the minimum and the bolt face in the OP's rifle is at the max, there could be "tolerance stackup" that will preclude use in that rifle. JMHO
Re: Win brass no eject
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I did and everything looks good. </div></div>
Do you have a set of caliper? At some point could you measure the case heads and let us know what you find?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 20incher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes I did and everything looks good. </div></div>
Do you have a set of caliper? At some point could you measure the case heads and let us know what you find?
Re: Win brass no eject
Will do
Will do
Re: Win brass no eject
.464 to .466
.464 to .466
