from the problem I noticed in this thread (Question about min OAL) in short, new reloads in winchester once fired brass using a lee classic loader had zero neck tension and allowed the bullet to "float" at the cannelure. This was a bit disheartening and had the folks at Lee a bit puzzled too and on their recommendation I took some measurements of my brass and also of some other brands.
I decided to do get out the caliper and start some research. I have 4 different brass to choose from and the only reason I ran with the winchester stuff last nite was because I had enough of it.
I posted this on another forum as well, and it's copied here for the benefit of all who give a crap.
knockout rod = .296"
decapping rod = .307
3 brand new federal cases (don't have any more winchesters, and I know this is gonna set me up for error...)
wall thickness at top of neck = .017"
neck I.D. prior to sizing = .308"
neck O.D. prior to sizing = .344" at top, at base of shoulder = .346 (once fired from my marlin)
now stay with me on these parts - when i drop a once fired unsized case into the sizer, it sticks out .288" which is almost exactly the same size as the length of the neck at least visually.
after sizing -
neck ID = .301"
wall thickness = .015-.016"
OD at tip= .332"
OD at base = .335 (which is .304" inside assuming wall thickness stays uniform as we go down the casing
when seated to 2.776, the top of the cannelure is .028" above the case, and the total width of the cannelure groove is .042" (.014" into the case, crimpable) and surprise...neck tension is SPOT on. its' tight. way tighter than the winchester stuff. I wasted 3 bullets doing this exercise, but it's worth it to know that my federal brass is much better for this than my winchester.
Some more specs just for giggles
Hornady 3031 150gr .308 dia soft point flat base bullet
actual dia at base, .308"
base to beginning of ogive = .490"
total length 1.080"
measured weight = 150gr exact on two scales and 3 bullets
so this has me thinking...i grab another (finaly found one) winchester case, and the wall thickness is .013-.014"
I forgot to measure before sizing but after sizing it,
.332" at top of neck
.335" at base of neck
at .332" this leaves an opening of .304" ID at top of neck and .307" at base of neck
Seating a bullet to the same depth in this case, the bullet seats with MUCH less effort and immediately sinks to the top of the cannelure ring.
conclusion?
this Winchester brass is garbage (or rather..not useable when combined with the LLC). after firing the rounds I managed to get crimped securely last nite to check powder load accuracy (believe me, i'd rather pull the bullets and save the powder) I will NOT be reusing the winchester brass. the federal seems much better, thicker, etc.
AAAAAND since i'm doing all this, i might as well work up the other two brass brands I have sitting here too.
I have remington and magtech.
remington before sizing:
wall .016
OD at top = .344
OD at base = .346 (why should it be anything else, right? Came from same rifle...)
after sizing:
OD@T = .332
OD@B = .336
ID = .302
Magtech before
wall .016
OD@T = .344
OD@B = .346
after sizing
OD@T = .333
OD@B = ..336
bullets seated in magtech and remington both hold well.
again, winchester garbage (when used with the LLC). everything else good.
all things considered - I have 100 magtech 150gr FMJ's to get rid of and keep the brass...My next trip to the range will be based on getting rid of this stuff. it makes my bolt stick a little, but shows no real signs of pressure. i'll get thru the rest of them and start loading at the OCW again.
all in the name of science...
I decided to do get out the caliper and start some research. I have 4 different brass to choose from and the only reason I ran with the winchester stuff last nite was because I had enough of it.
I posted this on another forum as well, and it's copied here for the benefit of all who give a crap.
knockout rod = .296"
decapping rod = .307
3 brand new federal cases (don't have any more winchesters, and I know this is gonna set me up for error...)
wall thickness at top of neck = .017"
neck I.D. prior to sizing = .308"
neck O.D. prior to sizing = .344" at top, at base of shoulder = .346 (once fired from my marlin)
now stay with me on these parts - when i drop a once fired unsized case into the sizer, it sticks out .288" which is almost exactly the same size as the length of the neck at least visually.
after sizing -
neck ID = .301"
wall thickness = .015-.016"
OD at tip= .332"
OD at base = .335 (which is .304" inside assuming wall thickness stays uniform as we go down the casing
when seated to 2.776, the top of the cannelure is .028" above the case, and the total width of the cannelure groove is .042" (.014" into the case, crimpable) and surprise...neck tension is SPOT on. its' tight. way tighter than the winchester stuff. I wasted 3 bullets doing this exercise, but it's worth it to know that my federal brass is much better for this than my winchester.
Some more specs just for giggles
Hornady 3031 150gr .308 dia soft point flat base bullet
actual dia at base, .308"
base to beginning of ogive = .490"
total length 1.080"
measured weight = 150gr exact on two scales and 3 bullets
so this has me thinking...i grab another (finaly found one) winchester case, and the wall thickness is .013-.014"
I forgot to measure before sizing but after sizing it,
.332" at top of neck
.335" at base of neck
at .332" this leaves an opening of .304" ID at top of neck and .307" at base of neck
Seating a bullet to the same depth in this case, the bullet seats with MUCH less effort and immediately sinks to the top of the cannelure ring.
conclusion?
this Winchester brass is garbage (or rather..not useable when combined with the LLC). after firing the rounds I managed to get crimped securely last nite to check powder load accuracy (believe me, i'd rather pull the bullets and save the powder) I will NOT be reusing the winchester brass. the federal seems much better, thicker, etc.
AAAAAND since i'm doing all this, i might as well work up the other two brass brands I have sitting here too.
I have remington and magtech.
remington before sizing:
wall .016
OD at top = .344
OD at base = .346 (why should it be anything else, right? Came from same rifle...)
after sizing:
OD@T = .332
OD@B = .336
ID = .302
Magtech before
wall .016
OD@T = .344
OD@B = .346
after sizing
OD@T = .333
OD@B = ..336
bullets seated in magtech and remington both hold well.
again, winchester garbage (when used with the LLC). everything else good.
all things considered - I have 100 magtech 150gr FMJ's to get rid of and keep the brass...My next trip to the range will be based on getting rid of this stuff. it makes my bolt stick a little, but shows no real signs of pressure. i'll get thru the rest of them and start loading at the OCW again.
all in the name of science...
