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Wireless Target Observation System

Starbuck

Starbuck

Visualize No Hippies
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 2, 2009
684
415
Boulder County, CO
Gents,

Anyone have any experience with this rig, advertised now in Precision Shooting Magazine?

http://www.prosecuritywarehouse.com/target.html

If you can't have a spotter by your side, this would be a great tool (if it works) when you're shoting alone at paper targets (as opposed to steel) where even the best spotting scope cannot resolve the holes....
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

myself and DKSD39 use a similar setup but ours is weatherproof and we use better antennas to send video a mile. There system is also way overpriced. DKSD39 has some pics of our last weekend out I'll see if he can post tonight. If your interested in a similar setup let me know and I'll work out a price and where to order it.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

I would like to see some pictures..
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

We really have not taken many pics so next time out we will do a better job lol....Our system has matching high gain antennas at both ends and our camera is in a waterproof housing. Next time out we will get some pics of our gear and monitor at the shooter. This pic shows our camera set up at 1 mile.
videosystem.jpg

 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keithtb1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">myself and DKSD39 use a similar setup but ours is weatherproof and we use better antennas to send video a mile. There system is also way overpriced. DKSD39 has some pics of our last weekend out I'll see if he can post tonight. If your interested in a similar setup let me know and I'll work out a price and where to order it. </div></div>

I've been thinking of investing in the same type of set up. Any additional info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

Targetteck has a wireless video spotting scopes. They have a 300 yard model for $300, kind of useless in my opinion, but they also have one for use up to 2000 yards for $450. This one I'm interested in, but I wish I knew someone who had one.
myerfire
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: myerfire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Targetteck has a wireless video spotting scopes. They have a 300 yard model for $300, kind of useless in my opinion, but they also have one for use up to 2000 yards for $450. This one I'm interested in, but I wish I knew someone who had one.
myerfire </div></div>

I have one. Still getting to know it. So far, so good.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dksd39</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We really have not taken many pics so next time out we will do a better job lol....Our system has matching high gain antennas at both ends and our camera is in a waterproof housing. Next time out we will get some pics of our gear and monitor at the shooter. This pic shows our camera set up at 1 mile.
videosystem.jpg

</div></div>

How much would you charge for this setup? I need a 1500 yard monitoring system that can transmit without issues on a 10 degree slope.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

I want one.

When I attended the CMP GSM Master Instructor's course we shot on their electronic airgun range. It took me a bit to concentrate on my shooting instead of watching the screen, but then and there I desided I had to have some sort of remote target screen. It's great for turning shooter sports into a spectators sport.

CMP Air Gun Range:
GEDC2279.JPG
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

I was designing my own system for this using wifi webcams, maybe costing about $250-300, and using a laptop as a the base station for viewing the video. However, the targetteck system seems like it uses a better camera sensor than would a cheapie webcam... the only review or demo I can find is on youtube, and the video is a bit fuzzy...
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

If you use a Laptop as the reciever for the video - does it record each shot so you can go back and play it? I'm thinking I'd rather concentrate on making the shot instead of having to look up to see it hit. Or is it just live video only?
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

It would be pretty easy to make something like that for around $500 minus the tripod. It would be real-time video only, no recording. with a little more work you could get something that you hook like a camcorder or digital recorder up to and record everything.

How long would the average shooting session last? just thinking what battery life is needed
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

I check on them and contact their dealer. He had nothing good to say about them. So I stayed away from them. Don't know if he said was true but better safe than sorry. I ended up ordering a Target-Cam system. Hope it works.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was designing my own system for this using wifi webcams, maybe costing about $250-300, and using a laptop as a the base station for viewing the video. However, the targetteck system seems like it uses a better camera sensor than would a cheapie webcam... the only review or demo I can find is on youtube, and the video is a bit fuzzy... </div></div>
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

i got the 3000 meter av receiver transmitter off ebay for $50 or $80 , battery and inverter powers camcorder,transmitter, receiver plugs into tv " i shoot from my house" its not that complicated really. im gonna do my camcorder ,transmitter,batt in a tote with a steel plate on back side for just in case armour , ive see guys use the small security camera , but i got a digital 8 sony thats kinda outdated and has tha zoom , another thing on the need to do list
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

I am in the process of assembeling a budget wireless camera system that will be available commercially in the next 3-4months. it will be very reasonably priced (much less than the package shown) and will include everything needed (including pelican style case) to setup. If anyone is interested please pm me.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

I posted in another beyond 1000 yd thread... thread title is ( video scoping).
Heres my idea

Find some shooting buddies with iphones. Both phones download the "Knocking Live" application.
place phone #1 (protected) near the target begin knocking app. Watch the live video on phone #2( at the shooting position) that phone #1 is sending.
The range can be 1yd to infinity. Just make sure the phone battires are fully charged.
If I can find a shooter in No. CA with an iphone I would love to do a real world test and report back here.

OK, I did some research... the App is free on the iphone. And you can use it across other networks. Which means droids to iphones or any combinations of smart phone.

Thoughts???
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sjb269</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I posted in another beyond 1000 yd thread... thread title is ( video scoping).
Heres my idea

Find some shooting buddies with iphones. Both phones download the "Knocking Live" application.
place phone #1 (protected) near the target begin knocking app. Watch the live video on phone #2( at the shooting position) that phone #1 is sending.
The range can be 1yd to infinity. Just make sure the phone battires are fully charged.
If I can find a shooter in No. CA with an iphone I would love to do a real world test and report back here.

OK, I did some research... the App is free on the iphone. And you can use it across other networks. Which means droids to iphones or any combinations of smart phone.

Thoughts??? </div></div>

This would be pretty much the same as using skype? or the similiar right? which in turn would allow you to use different video devices (cell phone, laptop/webcam) and theirs some pretty decent webcams out their nowadays.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

iphones would be sort of expensive if hit with any ricochet or flak. I just put the elements together of my wifi based system. A 12V battery from Fry's (local computer warehouse) with a 12V socket, and a 12V->110AC inverter, powers up the remote cam and remote access point. On my laptop I have a 11n USB wifi adapter with a dish antenna for high directional gain. At 100 yards, it seems to have very good signal. We'll see what happens at 500 and 900 yards when I get out to the open.

The other problem with iPhone is data service... not where my range is.

The advantage of the IP webcam over wifi approach is you are sending digital video, which stays nice and clean esp if you have decent signal. As opposed to the analog modulation schemes which make for grainy and noisy video, even with decent signal.

What's needed is a simple digital video compression box to take any high quality cam with ZOOM, and transmit over IP.

Anyway, I'll report on my setup results as I collect them this weekend.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

the wifi thing can be fixed with wifi routers and cards and antennaes... i am using wifi based tech for my target camera... we'll see if the resolution is good enough to track holes in the paper. In a test here at home, it seems to work great. The nice thing about digital is you get the same pic on the range as you get testing at home (assuming same lighting et al), or you get nothing at all. Analog solutions using AV transmitters degrade gently but sooner.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

The target camera I am using is pretty simple. Down at the target I have a 12v battery connected to a wireless router and a camera. The camera is attatched to the router via cat5 cable. The camera is a sony SNCRZ25N camera. It can pan tilt and zoom (pretty cool feature). The wireless router (linksys) is connected to a 29db antenna.

At the recieving end I have another 29 db antenna connected to my laptop and that is it.

For anything closer than 3/4 of a mile I only need one high gain antenna but anything farther than that I need both. So far I have gone out to 1.25 miles with no problems.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

@Dylanss, that is pretty much my setup except the high gain antennas. Can you point me to the 29dB antenna source?

Of course my range only goes to about 900 yards, or a little more than half a mile. I am using a $100 linksys webcam... see what happens with that.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

i tested my wifi system out at the range yesterday, and at 550 yards, I had full five bars of signal, supporting the full data rate of 54Mbps on my .11g system. I think I will be able to extend out to 1000 yards no problem with at least 50% of that signal surviving...
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

you shouldn't have any issues with signal strength on 802.11G with the right antennas. We have some links here that are several miles long. It gets a little harder to set things up at that range because of tight beam high gain antennas, but still plenty of signal. With a couple of WRT54G Linksys AP's running DDWRT firmware and a good tighter beam patch, or Yagi, you should be able to get over 1000yds no problem
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

hi Maddyn, what is "DDWRT" firmware... a specific version or? I think I have one or two of the WRTs in the basement somewhere.... I presume they have removable ext antennae then?
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

ok so about the wireless stuff, what is the transmit power of a typical wireless router, ive read about 40mW??? With just the high gain antennas, what is the theorectical range limit without adding 1000mW amplifiers?

The last peice of the puzzle is the camera. They range in price from under $100 to many $1000`s for an "IP camera" or "network camera"... im looking at the ones with PoE (power over ethernet) so its easy to simply plug the one ethernet cable in to run it from the router. So, how good of a camera do we need in order to be able to clearly see say, bullet holes in a paper target? Can we simply use a $100 special or do we need something better, 1M pixel 720p video? so far im thinking a grandstream 3601 @ $200 might be the go?
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

good question. I tested it out. I bought a $100 Linksys .11n IP (network) camera. At about 1.5m, it could very easily see the 308 bullet holes in a white paper target, leave alone a shoot'n'see type of target. I set the quality setting to the highest and frame rate at 3fps, since we don't care about high frame rate, but we want the least compression possible.

The nice thing about digital is that the pic will remain same quality as long as I have any decent bandwidth, which I would have even with alot of signal loss. But with analog you get noise and degradation of video quality right from the get go.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The last peice of the puzzle is the camera. They range in price from under $100 to many $1000`s for an "IP camera" or "network camera"... im looking at the ones with PoE (power over ethernet) so its easy to simply plug the one ethernet cable in to run it from the router. So, how good of a camera do we need in order to be able to clearly see say, bullet holes in a paper target? Can we simply use a $100 special or do we need something better, 1M pixel 720p video? so far im thinking a grandstream 3601 @ $200 might be the go? </div></div>

probably depends on how close you want to get your camera to the target. I would imagine if you want to get any sort of distance from the target, you'll need something with some sort of optical zoom, think taking your digital camera with you and see how for away from the target you can get without zooming in before you can't recognize holes anymore

Also as far as range, with a 29dbi dish antenna, and a bullet radio, we had enough signal strength at 1.5 miles to pick up with a laptop running an internal wireless card. Granted you don't need that kind of antenna, just a 6-12 dbi patch on both ends would be more than plenty... unless you're shooting over a mile that is =)
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maddyn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">www.dd-wrt.com

its a 3rd party firmware for the linksys and several other wireless routers. It adds a lot more functionality, tunability, and is usually a little more stable. The other option is a bullet radio http://www.ubnt.com/bulletm these things work great, and are small. http://www.l-com.com has good selection for antennas, and are of good quality. </div></div>

fantastic resources Maddyn, thank you very much for the reply. This stuff really gives wifi some legs!
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

A laptop based video cam system is easy to make for a few hundred bucks....search my name, I posted how to do it. If you aren't the DIY type, the system on this thread does look nice.

I have one right now that will easily go over a mile (2.4ghz Transmitter, Receiver, and 14dbi patch antenna from ebay attached to laptop with USB Video grabber)
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

kubiaks, is your system wifi and IP cam based or using analog cameras and analog modulation?
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

I apologize if i missed it, but what range will this system work at? I'm trying to find a god one that wil reach to 2,500 yards or more.

JeffVN
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

easily that distance, or much more if you want aswell... its all in the antennas... with high gain 49dB antennas at both ends powered with 1000mW amplifiers, theoretical max distance is 16 miles or so...
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

Is there anyway to use an IPad for viewing?
I'm trying to get a parts list together to build a 2000yrd model.
Any help on what i need to order would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

if the system you build is IP video based, i.e. sending digital video from a IP webcam (built in webserver), then an iPad or anything else that has a web browser would work. Caveat with Apple stuff like iPad is whether or not the iPad browser supports the video codec used by the webcam. Since most webcams used MPEG4 or MJPEG variant, I would *guess* that you'd be OK with iPad, but it's something to verify by actual testing.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">easily that distance, or much more if you want aswell... its all in the antennas... with high gain 49dB antennas at both ends powered with 1000mW amplifiers, theoretical max distance is 16 miles or so... </div></div>

Adjusting for the curvature of the earth of course ;-) :p
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

cali_tz,

Been thinking about building the same type system as you have mentioned as I have a spare linksys wifi router hanging around.

My question is (sorry, fairly networking retarted), since you are using the wireless Linksys network camera, why does the router have to be at the target side of the system? Maybe I understood it wrong, but this is the way I see the system as you have discribed it:

target > camera > ethernet cable > wifi router > directional anntena > X,XXX yards > wireless card > laptop

Since the camera has a wireless system built in, is it possible to hook the camera straight to the directional anntena? Is the router needed for some amplification, assign it an address, or is there not spot to attach the anntena to the camera? Is the wireless camera really needed, can't it be a normal web camera with built in network if connected to a router?

Once again, sorry, not real familiar with any of this, lucky to have my home network up and running. Just curious why have the hassel of hooking up the router & additional power supply if not 100% needed. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
Jason C.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

well then youd need another power supply with it wouldnt you?
smile.gif
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

Groper,

That Grandstream 3601 looks like the ticket with the PoE & downloadable software. Really opens up some adjustability at the base station with the software. Looks pretty easy to set-up too....

Have you commited to a system yet? If so, what did you go with?

I am really leaning towards the wireless system with the Power of Ethernet. Really simple, one battery pack for the router and run with a laptop w/ wireless card since I won't be shooting much over 1,000 yards ever. I just need a couple of examples of how well it works at that distance to really commit.

Thanks in Advance,
Jason C.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

Mohave-tec... very nice, thanks for the link, enjoyed your writeup. I went the other approach, while yours is analog, I went digital with a network webcam sending compressed digital video.

I was worried that analog video would be noisy as heck... at that 1000 yard distance, you didn't see any snow or other noise in the video then?
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

@cali_tz, what software do you use on the laptop to receive and display the video stream? How do you pair it with the transmitter? <span style="font-style: italic">I understand how WLAN/Wi-Fi works - but not how you pair the video transmitter with the video receiver <span style="text-decoration: underline">application</span> on the laptop, i.e. what piece of software actually receives, decodes and displays the video.</span>

Tnx!
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

your web browser dude... thats the beauty of the IP camera system, start your web browser, type in the camera address in teh address bar, and presto the image appears. All of the IP cameras come with their own little software package that integrates with the browser on disc and should allow recording etc as theyre primary use is for live security surveillance via the web.

The tranmitter IS the wireless router (gateway) and the reciever IS the wifi card in your laptop.
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your web browser dude... thats the beauty of the IP camera system, start your web browser, type in the camera address in teh address bar, and presto the image appears.</div></div>
I missed the "IP camera" part.
frown.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All of the IP cameras come with their own little software package that integrates with the browser on disc and should allow recording etc as theyre primary use is for live security surveillance via the web.</div></div>
It it a proprietary software package (with proprietary codecs)? Does it work on Mac (I don't run Windows - only Mac OS X and Linux both at home and at work)?

Also, I'm a bit touchy about putting some @#$% software on my computers - if the camera sends its video stream using one of the standard Internet protocols (e.g. RTP) over IP, then I should be able to point e.g. VLC (or QuickTime) media player at it, and it should receive/decode/play it just fine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The tranmitter IS the wireless router (gateway) and the reciever IS the wifi card in your laptop.</div></div>
That's nice to know, thanks! Do you know why manufacturers include this capabilities? Does such a camera usually accept multiple connections and streams to multiple receivers?
 
Re: Wireless Target Observation System

IP camera (aka network camera, aka web cam) is merely a camera with a built in mini web server. Thus as groper said, you just open any ole browser and type in the IP address of the IP camera. You'll see a web page with eiter the live video stream itself or some menu options to get to the video stream and possibly configure the IP cam video options, like size/quality/fps etc....

The codecs on these cheap IP cams is usually MPEG4, and any browser can decode it. You don't need ANY software at all to view the video... just the browser. If you want to RECORD the video then you may need some proprietary software.

The IP cams do accept multiple connections, but remember these cams have very little horsepower in them, so the more connections, the less the video quality per connection.

Finally you do want, as I found out, to use an external router for two reasons. One the router will give IP address to your PC and the IP cam, which makes it network everything together (you mght want to install some proprietary sw used to find the IP address of the webcam itself, usually on the CD that comes with the IP cam). Second the router usually has external antennae that you can remove and replace with patch or yagi antennae.
 
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