without warning - tuner muzzle brake (barrel tuner)

rydah

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Harmonic barrel tuners are nothing new.

They've been around for years and during that time a lot of great research and testing and has done with them, a lot of records have been set using them and a lot of great barrel tuner designs have been created by shooters, for the disciplines of competitive shooting that they compete in. But they've never really caught on in the tactical side of precision rifles because the shooting disciplines they were created for didn't require them to be practical or durable and that didn’t translate over.

WITHOUT WARNING is here to change that with the tmb (tuner muzzle brake).

Our patent-pending design integrates a rugged but compact barrel tuner and a class-leading self-timing directional muzzle brake into a single device.

Instead of paying to have a gunsmith take the time to install a device on your barrel or running multiple devices that add up in price and equal more bulky/complex setups you can now simply thread on a single device that incorporates the features of a stand-alone barrel tuner and a self-timing muzzle brake without it contacting your barrel and thus eliminating the to need to modify it.

The tmb is a streamlined and compact device that not only looks like it belongs on the end of your muzzle but doesn't add hard edges, bulk, or snag points on the end of your barrel for moving your muzzle in, out and around obstacles. Yet it is still simple to adjust and locks in place unlike most tuners... so that if you do abuse it, it won't fail you.

For more information check out the WITHOUT WARNING website.

https://www.strikewithoutwarning.com/

The original four-port 45-degree self-timing, directional and adjustable muzzle brake with an integrated 24 position, adjustable and locking harmonic barrel tuner. That simply threads onto your muzzle like every other self-timing muzzle brake on the market currently (tuner portion fits over the barrel.)

AISI 4140 Alloy Steel with corrosion-resistant and hardened black nitride finish.

Fits contours up to and including proof research competition contour barrels (1.04 inches in diameter, 1 inch behind the shoulder) with a standard 5/8x28 UNEF 3A or SIG tapered and threaded muzzle and up to 0.75 inches of thread engagement,
Works with all calibers up to and including 30 caliber magnums.
Comes with Fix-it-sticks compatible wrench for installation and hex tool for 8-32 set screws.
1-inch diameter muzzle brake, 1.58-inch diameter barrel tuner, 4.33 inches long, adds 2.77 inches to barrel length, tuner weight 4oz, total weight 11.5 ounces.


Pre-orders available now.
$325.

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tsu45

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In the picture it looks like it might have top ports along the entire length of the brake, but don’t see them on the renderings, just the forward pair. Could you confirm? Thanks.

I know it comes off as kind of vain to be worried about looks on a rifle that is about pure performance, but have to say this one looks visibly the best out of the recent options, to my eyes anyways.
 

rydah

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In the picture it looks like it might have top ports along the entire length of the brake, but don’t see them on the renderings, just the forward pair. Could you confirm? Thanks.

I know it comes off as kind of vain to be worried about looks on a rifle that is about pure performance, but have to say this one looks visibly the best out of the recent options, to my eyes anyways.

Yes that’s correct. Apa was granted a patent for that style of ports after that prototype was made so I had to remove them and redesign the brake.

Not at all. It’s your money mate nobody has the right to tell you how to spend it. Thanks for the compliment I put a lot of work into it to make the tuner look like it belonged there and wasn’t an afterthought for that exact reason.

Wait wait wait... are you based in Australia? Can I finally get something locally faster than the blokes in the US?

4D7A36FE-4696-407A-ABAB-B638F0036304.jpeg

Melbourne based but everything’s being done over there because they are the target market. I’ll have plenty shipped over here at the same time they are released though.

Hi,

Please send me all the information on these.

Sincerely,
Theis

PM sent brother.
 

NateSavannah

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    that you in those videos?
    funny how we create what we think people look like by reading what they have to say.
    laughed when I saw hortas picture.
    cant tell if theiss is a 90s killer nerd with his birth control glasses or just a 90s apple computer ap.
    the "hi" and "sincerely" totally has a rain man I will find you feel.
     

    deersniper

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    that you in those videos?
    funny how we create what we think people look like by reading what they have to say.
    laughed when I saw hortas picture.
    cant tell if theiss is a 90s killer nerd with his birth control glasses or just a 90s apple computer ap.
    the "hi" and "sincerely" totally has a rain man I will find you feel.
    What videos you talkin bout

    Can’t wait to see what I look like
     

    Adam B

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    seems like a 'hey, let me take what other people are doing and just define it slightly more' sort of deal

    odd i didn't see anything patent related on the APA website. maybe i didn't look hard enough
    After breezing through the patent it appears that it is for adjusting the break not with a tuner nor does it mention a brake tuner combo


    In one embodiment, a tunable muzzle brake for a firearm allows a user to select which of one or more directions propellant gases are vented during discharge of a firearm (e.g., airgun, rifle, or pistol) and further to select the relative amounts of propellant gases vented in each direction by opening or closing one or more closable vents or ports defined through the body of the muzzle brake. As such, a tunable muzzle brake of the present disclosure can help a user better control and directionally tune the recoil experienced upon discharge of a round of a ammunition from a firearm to which the muzzle brake is attached.

    In one embodiment, muzzle brake extends along a longitudinal axis. The muzzle brake includes a brake body, baffle, and a port. The brake body extends longitudinally. The brake body is configured to engage a muzzle of a firearm such that the longitudinal axis of the brake body is generally coaxial with a bore axis of the firearm. The brake body is configured to engage the muzzle at a rear end of the brake body when the muzzle brake is installed on the firearm. The baffle extends inwardly from the brake body toward the longitudinal axis. The port is longitudinally between the rear end of the brake body and the baffle. The port extends from an interior space (e.g., a main bore axis through which a projectile of the firearm passes) of the brake through the brake body.
     

    b6graham

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    After breezing through the patent it appears that it is for adjusting the break not with a tuner nor does it mention a brake tuner combo


    In one embodiment, a tunable muzzle brake for a firearm allows a user to select which of one or more directions propellant gases are vented during discharge of a firearm (e.g., airgun, rifle, or pistol) and further to select the relative amounts of propellant gases vented in each direction by opening or closing one or more closable vents or ports defined through the body of the muzzle brake. As such, a tunable muzzle brake of the present disclosure can help a user better control and directionally tune the recoil experienced upon discharge of a round of a ammunition from a firearm to which the muzzle brake is attached.

    In one embodiment, muzzle brake extends along a longitudinal axis. The muzzle brake includes a brake body, baffle, and a port. The brake body extends longitudinally. The brake body is configured to engage a muzzle of a firearm such that the longitudinal axis of the brake body is generally coaxial with a bore axis of the firearm. The brake body is configured to engage the muzzle at a rear end of the brake body when the muzzle brake is installed on the firearm. The baffle extends inwardly from the brake body toward the longitudinal axis. The port is longitudinally between the rear end of the brake body and the baffle. The port extends from an interior space (e.g., a main bore axis through which a projectile of the firearm passes) of the brake through the brake body.
    right. but what does the APA do that tons of AR15/pistol brakes/comps dont? other than define exact angles
     

    gnochi

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    I agree 100%, it is a bullshit claim

    Agreed, it’s not a very strong patent. That said, it’s protection so they can keep making what they’re making now, and the rug doesn’t get pulled out from under them - which is one of the theoretical dangers of a first-to-file system.

    Also, please note that the only thing that actually matters is what’s in the Claims. The Description is just for context and defining what’s in the claims. In this case, it’s the threaded top ports and their positions that are most relevant.
     

    rydah

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    my thoughts as well. How much to the USA.

    Everything is based in the US, so just normal local shipping.

    what exactly did APA manage to get a patent on? tunable ports on muzzle brake that already existed?

    They patented two ports in a specific location that are tuneable. The patent is significant and important because it doesn’t rob the muzzle brake of gasses that are used to fight recoil. It might not seem like it from the outside but when you have complex internal geometry like all the top brakes do, there’s really only one ideal place to put them and that’s what they’ve patented.
    So good on them, its a good design and I would have done the same thing.

    Maybe in the near future I’ll experiment with other ways to have tuneable muzzle rise ports but for now my focus is elsewhere.

    Does a box end wrench fit on the locking nut?

    The original proof of concept prototype did but there isn’t enough cut outs for the number of adjustments I wanted per rotation so made my own fix it sticks compatible tool that’s included with the tmb.

    The final version of it rocked up yesterday actually.

    3ECBC785-5A35-47E6-AB46-ED4DABB7B272.jpeg

    @rydah what is the overlap from the muzzle shoulder to the back edge of the tuner?

    This is what I recommend.

    Any contour with a maximum diameter of 1.04 inches, 1 inch behind the shoulder.

    straight%20taper%20drawing.pdf
     
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    gnochi

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    They patented two ports in a specific location that are tuneable. The patent is significant and important because it doesn’t rob the muzzle brake of gasses that are used to fight recoil. It might not seem like it from the outside but when you have complex internal geometry like all the top brakes do, there’s really only one ideal place to put them and that’s what they’ve patented.
    So good on them, its a good design and I would have done the same thing.

    Note on this for people unfamiliar with US patent law, numbers should essentially always be read as “at least”. 3, 4, 5127 ports - all of those are covered under a patent that reads “2 ports”.

    A good claim will include the most basic unit of whatever you’re doing. For example, my battery system patents (of which there are ~40 issued and pending) tend to have language like “an electrochemical battery cell, comprising two terminals, electrically connected at one terminal to a first region of a first current collector by a fusible link, and electrically connecting at one terminal to a second region of a second current collector by a fusible link” even though there are several thousand cells, several hundred current collectors, and possibly multiple fusible links per cell terminal, and the cell has way more going on than just two terminals.
     

    Sprayed99

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    This is what I recommend.

    Any contour with a maximum diameter of 1.04 inches, 1 inch behind the shoulder.

    straight%20taper%20drawing.pdf

    Diameter is no issue then, I run M24 barrels. I do however run fluted barrels and need to make sure it doesn't cover the fluting... just an aesthetic thing, but rather plan ahead. Any idea when the release will happen? I wouldn't mind grabbing one or two.
     
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    TacticalDillhole

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    From what I can tell EC's brake/tuner is not self timing. Not to mention it isn't nearly as sexy as the other offering in this thread.

    *Edit, The brake/tuner from Erik is self timing, still doesn't change the fact it is ugly as sin.
    Yeah the real point of bringing that up was to discuss the differences between the two. I know jack shit about tuners. It’s not my thing but I’d like to understand them a bit more.
     

    2aBaCa

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    Wish I'd seen this sooner.

    Recently picked up an ATS from Kinetic. Its one that goes behind a brake. I haven't shot it yet but in just messing with it theres 2 things I wish it had. Click adjust, and markings like a micrometer so I know exactly where its at. I plan on using it with multiple rifles and want repeatability.

    @rydah any downside to replacing one of the set screws with something like this and making small detents in the barrel so that it does predetermined click adjustments?
    TYP_23_sm.jpg
     
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    rydah

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    Note on this for people unfamiliar with US patent law, numbers should essentially always be read as “at least”. 3, 4, 5127 ports - all of those are covered under a patent that reads “2 ports”.

    A good claim will include the most basic unit of whatever you’re doing. For example, my battery system patents (of which there are ~40 issued and pending) tend to have language like “an electrochemical battery cell, comprising two terminals, electrically connected at one terminal to a first region of a first current collector by a fusible link, and electrically connecting at one terminal to a second region of a second current collector by a fusible link” even though there are several thousand cells, several hundred current collectors, and possibly multiple fusible links per cell terminal, and the cell has way more going on than just two terminals.

    I will look into this further.

    Diameter is no issue then, I run M24 barrels. I do however run fluted barrels and need to make sure it doesn't cover the fluting... just an aesthetic thing, but rather plan ahead. Any idea when the release will happen? I wouldn't mind grabbing one or two.

    Unfortunately the virus has slowed things down and we are booked in but manufacturing doesn't start until January. Samples will be heading out in January for review so keep a look out for them. Some trusted sources from the hide will have them to do content with.

    Yeah the real point of bringing that up was to discuss the differences between the two. I know jack shit about tuners. It’s not my thing but I’d like to understand them a bit more.

    Happy to help ask away.

    Also check out the technology section of the website where I give an overview of the brake, tuner and its design: https://www.strikewithoutwarning.com/technology

    The biggest difference other than the performance of our muzzle brake vs the muzzle brake used in the ec brake will be the concept behind the device. The tmb was made to be durable and rugged which is the whole reason I believe tuners never translated and migrated over to the tactical side of precision rifles. A lot of time and design was put into creating a tuner that integrated into the muzzle brake and wasn't an after thought but still performed the way the best bench rest style tuners behave. I hunt sambar here in Melbourne and live on a large property, my rifles are always with me beating around in my truck or in the thick bush getting caught/beat on things, if I made a tuner muzzle brake it had to be durable. Tuners move in .001 of an inch increments between settings and they are not something that you want to be able to move should you beat up on it. Adjusting a tuner affects your group size and poi. The original ec tuner is held in place with the friction of nylon tipped set screws and if the same design is used for this new ec brake, with it on the end of the brake, it seems quite exposed to me. The tmb locks in place into one of 24 preset adjustments and cant physically move should you beat up on it unless you sheer both the 8-32 set screws in half. It also has no hard edges and smooth edges angles so it deflects off of anything its forced into.

    Wish I'd seen this sooner.

    Recently picked up an ATS from Kinetic. Its one that goes behind a brake. I haven't shot it yet but in just messing with it theres 2 things I wish it had. Click adjust, and markings like a micrometer so I know exactly where its at. I plan on using it with multiple rifles and want repeatability.

    @rydah any downside to replacing one of the set screws with something like this and making small detents in the barrel so that it does predetermined click adjustments?
    View attachment 7508862

    Thats the ideal solution as far as im concerned. I tried to incorporate ball detent plungers into the design also but the minimum lengths made the diameter of the tuner too large and the overall design too bulky. Instead I settled for groves cut into the locking collar so the set screws tightened into them and lock the tuner in place and while also giving it a set number of repeatable adjustments per revolution.
     
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    Vodoun daVinci

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    I'm impressed that you have incorporated the concepts of the self installed/self centering muzzle brake with the barrel tuner that screws on to existing threaded barrels without having to get additional machining or modifications to my barrel. This is innovative and in my opinion more impressive than just engineering skills or intelligence.

    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." Einstein

    I'm loving the whole concept.

    VooDoo
     

    rydah

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    I'm impressed that you have incorporated the concepts of the self installed/self centering muzzle brake with the barrel tuner that screws on to existing threaded barrels without having to get additional machining or modifications to my barrel. This is innovative and in my opinion more impressive than just engineering skills or intelligence.

    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." Einstein

    I'm loving the whole concept.

    VooDoo

    Thank you I really appreciate the kind words.

    Feel free to ping me if you have more questions on that. I’m not a lawyer but I can point you in the right direction; I’ve been the primary interface between patent lawyers and engineers at my last 2 jobs.

    Thank you I absolutely will and I appreciate you taking the time to try to help out.
     

    Hateca

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    Hi,

    Here is the documents. Seems pretty easy to defeat IMO.
    United States Patent: 10788283 (uspto.gov)

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    My name is on that list but my patent was sold years ago to another company. One thing I learned is the type of patent matters and they are not bullet proof. Unless you have a high priced patent lawyer on retainer and you are making millions the patent isn’t worth the paper it’s written on and not worth the time to worry about it.
     
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